Jump to content
Guest Account Ali

Would Europe been better off without Christianity?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

First of all, this is a post in reference to the topic someone made asking this: 

I wanted to make a post with a similar topic but have the tables turned to show how inundated arguing like this is. Nonetheless, I am actually curious about the response from people concerning this topic of mine. Please be respectful and do not make fun of or belittle Christianity. But in a similar vein of topics I saw in the reference thread, you could talk about how diverse  pagan Europe would have been without the existence of christianity, etc. Also, you could talk about how we could know so much more about the indigenous culture, people, and religions of South America and Central America had Christianity not existed and therefore spanish conquistadores would not have existed as well. 

Also, please be mindful of saying how "Industrialization" was due to Christianity in Europe. Those two variables are not correlated in any way, and the Protestant ethic is seriously doubted by western historians as contributing to the process of industrialization and instead credit is given to when Europeans let Capitalism and Mercantilism go unhinged in Europe's economies.

Also, perhaps without Christianity Europe and the Romans would have embraced and used ancient greek knowledge to advance their civilizations much sooner than they did. As in case you did not know when Muslims embraced and used greek knowledge to accelerate and advance muslim society and had greek philosophers become household names for their mathematical and chemical theorems, the Christian Romans were heavily resistant to tapping into the gold mine of knowledge that was the ancient greeks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

First of all, this is a post in reference to the topic someone made asking this: 

 Also, you could talk about how we could know so much more about the indigenous culture, people, and religions of South America and Central America had Christianity not existed and therefore spanish conquistadores would not have existed as well. 

 

I figured someone would ask the Europe question. I will think on that. 

You would also have to add the Portugese, Russians, French, English, and some others into the above equation.

As far as finding out about indigenous folks, my suggestion is always just to ask them.

 

 

image.jpeg

Edited by LeftCoastMom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

l agree with Leftie, yet l'II give some initial reaction:

10 hours ago, Guest Account Ali said:

First of all, this is a post in reference to the topic someone made asking this: 

I wanted to make a post with a similar topic but have the tables turned to show how inundated arguing like this is. ["like this WHAT? lncomplete sentence.:ranting: ]

 Nonetheless, I am actually curious about the response from people concerning this topic of mine. Please be respectful and do not make fun of or belittle Christianity. But in a similar vein of topics I saw in the reference thread, you could talk about how diverse  pagan Europe would have been without the existence of christianity, etc. Also, you could talk about how we could know so much more about the indigenous culture, people, and religions of South America and Central America had Christianity not existed and therefore spanish conquistadores would not have existed as well. 

Also, please be mindful of saying how "Industrialization" was due to Christianity in Europe. Those two variables are not correlated in any way, and the Protestant ethic is seriously doubted by western historians as contributing to the process of industrialization and instead credit is given to when Europeans let Capitalism and Mercantilism go unhinged in Europe's economies. [Actually, gradual advances were made -as before- until the effects of the Scottish educational 'system' became a driving 'force'.]

Also, perhaps without Christianity Europe and the Romans would have embraced and used ancient greek knowledge to advance their civilizations much sooner than they did. As in case you did not know when Muslims embraced and used greek knowledge to accelerate and advance muslim society and had greek philosophers become household names for their mathematical and chemical theorems, the Christian Romans were heavily resistant to tapping into the gold mine of knowledge that was the ancient greeks

l disagree with the theme of the last paragraph, so l'II prepare an answer for later today, inshallah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the incomplete sentence, I can show great American authors who wrote sentences like this, so it is not a grammar mistake. 

 

Also, I forgot to include educational reforms in my paragraph. Also by "unhinged" is when Europeans were bringing in massive amounts of materials into Europe via capitalism, underpaid workers, and colonialism to feed the new intelligentsia. I was not necessarily referring to intellectualism, and also I meant unhinged in comparison to the industrial revolution. Yes, Europeans made advancements before the industrial revolution but compared to the industrial revolution is when their current advancement made their previous achievements plae in comparison. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

5 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I figured someone would ask the Europe question. I will think on that. 

You would also have to add the Portugese, Russians, French, English, and some others into the above equation.

As far as finding out about indigenous folks, my suggestion is always just to ask them.

 

 

image.jpeg

No offense, but that is the most obvious way of finding out about these cultures. However, it has been established that, unfortunately and not the fault of Christianity, the Spanish and Portuguese were famed for their overtly oppressive occupation of native people and suppressing and partial extermination of the native people's cultures and people's themselves. In particular, hieroglyphics could have been immensly helpful in understanding the native people but were effectively destroyed by the conquistadors for religious and political reasons. Not to mention an example being Bishop Zumarraga de Mexico ordering the destructions of native texts for "missionary reasons". It is only because archeology that developed as a field that helped in us regaining knowledge of native peoples. Also, the reconquista is an example of how the Spanish implemented cultural genocide and massacres of people who did not fit in their framework of life. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, LeftCoastMom said:

^When I want to find out about Mayan culture, I talk to a Mayan.

Yes, I understand that. But do you suppose that culture is not composed of a single person who defines it? It is immense and broad. Are you versed in at least the basics of fields like sociology, archaeology, etc. In these fields, a person's thoughts about their culture only symbolize the self-worth of the culture to them but not necessarily equal their WHOLE culture. For example, a spaniard might not think of the spanish conquests as bad, but a spaniard versed in mayan history before and after the conquests? He might give an answer that is not the same and might admit to terrible things the spanish did like mass "sexual assault" to put it lightly against indigenous women via enslaving them, but he might also talk about how the spanish introduced certain social infrastructures, Christianity Etc,etc. unfortunately in many cases the spanish would forcibly convert people to catholicism, at times and at times not depending on the conquistador and the commander. However the shocking bit is the spanish crown did not care about episodes of forcible conversion). (Again, the spanish nor the spanish crown nor conquistadores were representative of christianity.)

 

Again, to give an example. I am desi (I am sure you know what that means) but at the same time I can definitely make criticisms of arab culture given enough information by arabs themselves or by my own careful observations. Same thing in reverse, and if done in a healthy manner so as to help muslims throw away cultural beliefs and obey Islamic beliefs, then I nor would I imagine any muslim would care too much. However, if done in a way that is counter-intuitive and just done to "get back" and play the game of "who is the worst oppressors" then I would not suggest criticism takes place from non-residents of the culture. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Loool...your points are valid...but..no, I don't talk with just one person. 

Why would I?

Sometimes they come visit me. 

Their  autonomous regions and schools are super.   Inspiring.

Hope my family can help out some more in the future.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

^^^^ Huh?  :confused:

What's a Samhain?

The original pagan Halloween, the Celts believed that this was the day when the veil between living world and the dead was at it's thinnest. It was meant to herald the coming of winter and the end of the harvest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Answer to Title Question:  Yes.

I thought I made it clear how inundated answering questions like my post were. So please don't actually think your answer true. As my answer would be "its complicated" a cop-out to some but is still more reflective of the nuances of history and cultural studies of any region. Ultimatley, we could pool all the world's historians, cultural anthropologists, sociologists, among others and still never get an answer if we did pose such questions for every demographic region on this earth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Guest Account Ali said:

I thought ..

View Europe in chronological and geographical time lines during the Dark Ages.

Rome used its de facto control over literacy and 'education' -especially when the only real refuge for its continuance was in Midevil lreIand- plus monastarial colonization and military expansion using 'consecrated' mercenary dukedoms to serfandize and satanize Western and Central Europe. Expansion eastwards was led by Teutonic orders. Consolidation really began after the Viking invasions ended although some of this can already be seen by 800 with Charlemagne and then the Holy Roman Empire and France.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Alaikis Salaam sister,  Why don't you refer the book called 'Mafatih al-Jinan'. It has Aa'mal and duas for every month.  Search Google, play store or App store. 
    • Salaam Aleikum, Let say there is period of time where a born Muslim live in west and have no idea of anything about God, Islam, Prayer, Islamic laws and the person lives only according his desires and have ignorance about the matters of Islam. If the person realize God, and realize Islam and start to practice Islam, will the past sins be all forgiven?  Second, what happens to the Salaat and Fasting of that time, does it need to do Qada?
    • “... there will be there all that the souls could desire, all that the eyes could delight in …” (Quran 43:71) “Eat and drink at ease for that which you have sent forth (good deeds) in days past!” (Quran 69:24) “… They will be adorned therein with bracelets of gold, and they will wear green garments of fine silk and heavy brocade.  They will recline therein on raised thrones.  How good [is] the recompense!  How beautiful a couch [is there] to recline on!” (Quran 18:31) not hear therein ill speech or commission of sin.  But only the saying of: Peace! Peace!” (Quran 56:25-26) There will be no enmity between people nor ill-feelings: “And We shall remove from their breasts any (mutual) hatred or sense of injury (which they had, if at all, in the life of this world)…” (Quran 7:43)   “And whoever obeys God and the Messenger – those will be with the ones upon whom God has bestowed favor – of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous.  And excellent are those as companions!” (Quran 4:69) “Crystal-white, delicious to those who drink (thereof), free from intoxication, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom” (Quran 37:46-47)   “...rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes...” (Quran 47:15)   they shall have therein purified mates…” (Quran 2:25) “And when you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a great dominion.” (Quran 76:20) 
    • A penny for your thoughts!  Come on people.
    • ^ Added to OP "some" western Muslims, to avoid generalization, because that was not the OP intention to generalize. And let's calm down please.
×