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لنا مع الله حالات هو هو ونحن نحن وهو نحن ونحن هو

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There is a hadith quoted in few books. Can you explain what its about. And is it authentic or not. 

لنا مع الله حالات هو هو ونحن نحن وهو نحن ونحن هو).

Edited by Hameedeh
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What i have read its quite sensitive and dangerous hadith. Maybe for ahl e irfan. Or people having high maarfat level. 

An arabic friend might translate it correctly. I have heard urdu translation in few urdu mjalis. 

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3 minutes ago, inocence said:

What i have read its quite sensitive and dangerous hadith. Maybe for ahl e irfan. Or people having high maarfat level. 

An arabic friend might translate it correctly. I have heard urdu translation in few urdu mjalis. 

You can write it in urdu. I can understand it.

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اللہ کے ساتھ ہمارے معاملات کچھ ایسے ہیں کہ کبھی وہ ہم ہوتا ہے اور کبھی ہم وہ ہوتے ہیں، لیکن کسی دھوکے میں نہ رہنا وہ وہ رہتا ہے اور ہم ہم رہتے ہیں. 

Something like that. 

Shokat raza shokat said a shyr on this hadith in karbala and the whole issue started. 

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1 hour ago, inocence said:

Please state some explanation 

There are different wordings for this hadith, but I translate the wording in the OP:

We have modes with God, in which He is He and we are we; and [modes in which] He is us and we are Him.

One possible (classic) explanation is that this is fana, not physical or identity fana, but the fana of will, we have no other will than that of Allah swt, utmost obedience.

For other explanations you may refer to Shia tafsir of the below verse:

 

You killed them not, but Allâh killed them. And you (Muhammad SAW) threw not when you did throw, but Allâh threw, that He might test the believers by a fair trial from Him. Verily, Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower. (8:17) 

Edited by mesbah

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On 10/10/2017 at 4:35 AM, inocence said:

اللہ کے ساتھ ہمارے معاملات کچھ ایسے ہیں کہ کبھی وہ ہم ہوتا ہے اور کبھی ہم وہ ہوتے ہیں، لیکن کسی دھوکے میں نہ رہنا وہ وہ رہتا ہے اور ہم ہم رہتے ہیں. 

Something like that. 

Shokat raza shokat said a shyr on this hadith in karbala and the whole issue started. 

Who has narrated this Hadith. 

Is it from any authentic source. 

If Imam has truly narrated it. Then it might be referring to Imams. Because Imams only wish what Allah wishs. 

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On 10/8/2017 at 10:59 AM, inocence said:

There is a hadith quoted in few books. Can you explain what its about. And is it authentic or not. 

لنا مع الله حالات هو هو ونحن نحن وهو نحن ونحن هو).

Salamun Alaykum,

Thank you for sharing this quote.

Tawhid is asserting that God is at once, Transcendent and Immanent, the one and only absolute Object and the one and only absolute Subject.  Tawhid is asserting, at once, the Tanzih (incomparability of God) and the Tashbih (the similarity of God), His remoteness and His nearness, His Majesty & His Beauty, His Wrath and His Mercy, His HIddeness &  His Manifestness.   

"He is He and we are we" =  Transcendence, Remoteness, the One and Only Divine Object, the Hidden, the Majestic.

"He is us and we are He". = Immanence, Nearness, the One and Only Divine Subject, the Manifest, the Beautiful.

Edited by Hameedeh
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On 10/29/2017 at 11:09 AM, E.L King said:

Do you know where he stated this?

Yes brother. i have seen his stamped statement issued on his letter head. i can inbox you. but its in urdu. if you can understand it.
i also confirmed it with their whatsapp number stated on Bashir najfi website

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52 minutes ago, inocence said:

Yes brother. i have seen his stamped statement issued on his letter head. i can inbox you. but its in urdu. if you can understand it.
i also confirmed it with their whatsapp number stated on Bashir najfi website

This hadith might have some Irfani connotation. So it might be wise to ask ahl al irfan about the meaning and commentary of this hadith. 

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On 10/8/2017 at 10:59 AM, inocence said:

There is a hadith quoted in few books. Can you explain what its about. And is it authentic or not. 

لنا مع الله حالات هو هو ونحن نحن وهو نحن ونحن هو).

السؤال: معنى قولهم (عليهم السلام) (لنا مع الله حالات هو فيها نحن...)

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

يذكر كلام ينسب الى الأئمة (عليهم السلام): (لنا مع الله حالات هو هو ونحن نحن وهو نحن ونحن هو).

وقد اشكلت عليّ فهم هذة العبارة.. ألا تدل على معتقد وحدة الوجود، واتحاد الخالق مع المخلوق، وهي شبيهة بعقائد النصارى من حلول الآله في البشر ارجو المساعدة والاجابة با سرع وقت... ولكم كل الشكر والامتنان

والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاتة

الجواب:

الأخ حيدر نظير المحترم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته 
ورد هذا الكلام في كتاب (الكلمات المكنونه) للفيض الكاشاني، وكتاب (مصباح الهداية) للسيد الخميني (قدس) حيث كان بصدد الرد على كلام الصوفية وتبيان المذهب الحق في المسألة.
وقولهم (عليهم السلام) هذا ليس فيه دلالة على ما ذكرت، فإن قوله: (لنا مع الله حالات هو فيها نحن ...) الخ، ناظر إلى حالات الإتحاد في الهوية، أي أنّ لنا مع الله تعالى حالات نكون في هذه الحالات لشدّة الإتصال به عزّ وجلّ والقرب منه كأننا هو، إذ تغيب إنياتنا في هذه الحالات لاندكاكها في عظمته، فنكون مظهراً لأمر الله وفعله، فإذا قلنا فالله تعالى هو القائل بنا وإذا فعلنا فالله تعالى هو الفاعل بنا، فبلحاظ هذه الحالات يكون فعلنا وقولنا فعل الله وقول مع أنه أجل وأعلى من أن يتحد بنا لأننا نحن وهو الله، وكذلك نكون كأننا الله عز وجل مع إننا عبيد له.

ويشير إلى هذا المعنى ما ورد في دعاء كلّ يوم من شهر رجب للإمام الحجة (عليه السلام) ومنه: (وآياتك ومقاماتك التي لا تعطيل لها، في كل مكان يعرفك بها من عرفك لا فرق بينك وبينها إلا إنهم عبادك وخلقك). 
فقوله (عليه السلام): (لا فرق بينك وبينها) يشير إلى تلك الحالات التي لهم (عليهم السلام) مع الله تعالى بحيث تغيب إنياتهم وذواتهم في جلال جبروته وعظمته - ففي مثل هذه الحالات لا يكون ثمة فرق بينه عزّ وجلّ وبينهم من جهة صيرورتهم مظاهراً لأفعاله لأنهم واسطة فيضه ومحل مشيته ومظهر كبريائه . فتأمل
ودمتم في رعاية الله

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/5965/#tlq

Question: The words attributed to the imams (peace be upon them): (We have with God cases he …………. are).

I have formed the understanding of this phrase . Do not indicate the belief in the unity of existence, and the union of the Creator with the creature, which is similar to the doctrines of the Christians of the solutions of the machine in humans. Please help and answer with a quick time ... and all your thanks and gratitude.  Peace, mercy and blessings of God

Answer:

These words were mentioned in the book (the words of the mechanized) of the Faiz Kashani, and the book (lamp of guidance) of Mr. Khomeini (Quds) where he was in response to the words of Sufism and explain the doctrine right to the issue.

And say (peace be upon them) this is not a sign of what you said, the saying: (us with God cases where we ...), etc., looking at the cases of union in the identity, that we have with God cases we are in these cases to the intensity of communication We are saying that God is the one who says that if we do, God is the one who is the one who is the one who is doing us. In such cases, we will do what we have done, and say, God's action, and say with it that He is the one who does it. Yes and higher than to unite us because, we are slaves to him.

And refers to this meaning what is stated in the du'aa 'every day of the month of Rajab to Imam Al-Hajjah (peace be upon him) and from him: (and your verses and your places that do not disobey them, in every place known to you of your knowledge is no difference between you and them but they are your slaves and your creation).

(Peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "There is no difference between you and them." He refers to those situations in which they (peace be upon them) are with Allaah so that their idols and selves are absent in the majesty of His greatness and majesty. For his actions because they are a mode of flow, a place of his walk and the appearance of his pride. Think.

And long as you in God's care

(Approx. Translation by Google)

Taken from shia web site, the link of that  is given above.

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Excessively large fonts (size 16-72) in the quote were reduced.]

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Salam

Got the reply from ayatullah Makarem Shirazi and he also says its not authentic. Ayatullah sistani website doesn't reply my queries anymore. They used to be very quick. But i dont get any reply from them since a couple of years. 

Waiting for the answer of a few other marajas though. 

Regards 

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29 minutes ago, inocence said:

Salam

Got the reply from ayatullah Makarem Shirazi and he also says its not authentic. Ayatullah sistani website doesn't reply my queries anymore. They used to be very quick. But i dont get any reply from them since a couple of years. 

Waiting for the answer of a few other marajas though. 

Regards 

Even ask from Ayatullah  Hassanzadeh Amoli. He is one of great scholar of the field of esoteric understanding of islam. 

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