Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, starlight said:

Repeating myself once again ..take medicines when you are in such a bad shape that 'your mind is trying to die' take all the help from meds you need to get back on your feet but once you do take care of other more important variables ASAP.

Ok. What about schizophrenic or bipolar patients? How do you suppose extreme manic episodes can be controlled. Say for example, you have tried EVERYTHING. Psychiatry, counselling, therapy. Everything. But you still are having manic episodes. Now, you are a doctor. You should have some sort of idea what mania is, and that there is very little that can control it in some cases

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@starlight

This is victim blaming.  

The majority of psychiatric illnesses are genetically based.  You are born with them.  Medical genograms are one of the first assessment tools with a new patient.  And these diseases are also somatic - a scan of a schizophrenic brain shows significant physical abnormalities that impact the surrounding structures (in addition to the chemical abnormalities of course).  

Psychotropics help people cope and to have a shot at a life that you take for granted.  Have you ever seen a person with schizophrenia hallucinating?   A bipolar individual in a manic uncontrolled state or in a  suicidal depth of despair?  It is the closest definition to hell that we will see in our mortal lives.  They have brain chemistry that is not functioning normally.  Telling them that they are to blame because of they are weak, lack character, don't pray, exercise enough, etc etc is ignorant. Some illnesses require medical intervention and these definitely qualify.  To condemn people to this life of hell is arrogant and cruel.

As for mortality, suicidal patients are those who are untreated (either by choice or they do not respond to meds) or have gone off their meds.  One reason that people go off their meds because others tell them that they are the equivalent of "addicted" to them. Guilt, shame and pain.

Should others with life threatening illnesses go off their meds?  Is there a maximum number of years for those with a non functioning pancreas to have access to insulin? how about thyroxine for thyroid under-function? pace makers? etc etc

Don't Muslims (Shia esp in many parts of the world) have enough to deal with in terms of judgement and discrimination?  We need to be supporting those who need help in our ummah, not condemning their efforts to cope and be functional and accepted for who they are and for their choices in their medically supervised care without our morally superior chastisement.  This is just one of many areas where cultural judgement reigns supreme. 

 

 

Edited by forte

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In one of the popular proverbs here a saying that goes something like this" wrap your finger with plaster and each person will perscribe for you a medicine".

Depression as clinical diagnosis is the state in which a person stops doing their daily activities, stops eating, sleeping, washing and shaving. They stop to be connected to this world and live in a dissociation with reality.

They will not react to external signals such as : a depressed parent will not take care of their child. Child may die.

In these extreme cases, medicine is used to stop the depressed from harming themselves and others. It is not a luxury choice, it is a life saving decision taken by a certified psychiatrist.

A depressed person who did not reach that level, the level of dissociation, and is aware of their state of mind but their daily life is compromised (poor grades, low productivity at work etc), they need to seek help from professional psychiatric who will put therapy plan for them and list all possible and appropriate methods.

For people who are coming online seeking help, we can only state what's been known to be effective on everyone from every culture, age group, economical status and social status. Cheap effective affordable ways that one can recommend are:

Spirituality, a walk in nature, good food , good sleep, good company and good social support.

No one can push a depressed person to take any of these measures, not even the psychiatrists, it is all upon the person to pull themselves up and move on.

Stigma is to see someone crippled with depression and yell at them: sort yourself! Then when they try to seek help from professional they call them weak.

Asking for help is not weakness. Obviously no one in this thread is doing that.

In the outside world, they may call those who seek professional help weak, but not those who seek these simple methods which are at large a very socially acceptable.

A worthy note: They found that cognitive therapy which is done by specialists has same efficacy as talk therapy by trained nurse which is also has same efficacy as simple chat with friend. 

No one should under estimate the power of kind words to those under extreme stress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Antidepressants help in the short term but they strip you of your emotions leaving you feeling emotionally flat which kind of makes you feel another kind of crap. But still its better than suffocating in your own skin. Feelings can get lost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, forte said:

@starlight

This is victim blaming.

I would really like to know how you reached this conclusion when I am not even talking about the psychiatric patients, rather I have been emphasising on mental health professional injudiciously prescribing the drugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, starlight said:

I would really like to know how you reached this conclusion when I am not even talking about the psychiatric patients, rather I have been emphasising on mental health professional injudiciously prescribing the drugs.

Have you ever been in a position where the weight of the world and everything in it was crushing you and you couldn't breathe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Langar said:

Have you ever been in a position where the weight of the world and everything in it was crushing you and you couldn't breathe?

Yes. Plenty of times. Not going in the details but I haven't had an easy life. If you had read my earlier post I wrote there that at one point in my life I have taken psychiatric drugs,and a whole lot of them, for over a year! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, starlight said:

Yes. Plenty of times. Not going in the details but I haven't had an easy life. If you had read my earlier post I write there that I had been taking psychiatric medications,and a whole lot of them, for over a year! 

So then what's the issue, did they not help?

Edited by Langar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, starlight said:

I would really like to know how you reached this conclusion when I am not even talking about the psychiatric patients, rather I have been emphasising on mental health professional injudiciously prescribing the drugs.

I meant to quote the post and didn't for some reason.  I was referring to your judgement of your cousin with Rheumatoid Arthritis who only "popped pills" and is now in a wheel chair due to her decisions.  Intimating that it is her fault that she is in a wheelchair..  I know that that disease is incredibly painful and debilitating.  For myself, I am not in a position to judge someone trying to relieve excruciating 24/7 pain when I am relatively pain free. I don't walk in their shoes. We have no idea as to the degree of her pain, degree of fear to move certain ways that will cause even more pain or her rational to do what she does.  

As for over medication:  Anti-depressants and stimulants are grossly over prescribed because they are prescribed by GP's who have few tools at their hands to get people moving in a positive direction and it seems like a quick fix.  It is not OK.  However, I am more concerned about the stimulant prescriptions to young children who are misdiagnosed with ADHD than I am about the anti-depressants although they too have many negatives.  Over prescribed medications are a huge problem but that is a separate issue.  We are talking about people who are competently diagnosed by certified mental health professionals, not with your 15 minute visit with your GP - that is not a diagnosis of anything.  A lot goes into a competent diagnosis and it often takes several weeks of in-patient tests and observations... as the two members here who have spoken out to repeatedly defend themselves (!) have had done.  I am not talking about the actions of some GP who is at a loss to know what to do when their patient sees them due to some home or work environment issue that is upsetting them.  I am talking about diagnosing a true chronic illness.  

Anyone who is diagnosed by a certified mental health professional with clinical depression is not just going through a rough patch in life; it is a pervasive condition that may ebb a bit but does not go away and is not dependent on specific incidents in their life.  It is organic and ongoing.  Most people with clinical depression that I have come in contact have had  a family history where they have at least one relative who has committed suicide or has become incapacitated due to their illness.  Anyone with a psychotic or mood disorder (very rapid and dangerous mood swings such as bipolar) are at the mercy of their brain chemistry.  No gym membership is going to fix that.

We ALL can do better by proper diet and exercise and seeking opportunities for personal growth and achievement. Including those of us who hunch over a computer all day. Practicing our tolerance, acceptance and love of others is one of those ways. Not submitting to prevalent cultural practices that demean others is another.  Mental health patients do the best they can with what they have.  As we all do.  Support and acceptance goes along way to giving someone the confidence they need to be the best they can, and to try new avenues of care consistent with the strengths and limitations they were given.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Laayla

Here’s why Bipolar Disorder is a real illness:

1. I went six entire days without a wink of sleep and experienced auditory hallucinations like sirens and seeing light brown ants on the ground. (And I would go several days without sleep until I would fall asleep for a day. Six days was just the most I went without sleep at a time.) This is called severe mania. I also had a “high” or euphoric mood for months at a time, that was out of my control. 

2. My depressive and manic episodes were so close together I had periods of no normal mood in between.

3. I had my first depressive episode at 9, which lasted for one year, and again at 11, which lasted until 13, until I had my first manic episode.

4. I thought of suicide nonstop before I got treatment.

5. I broke glass picture frames on my feet before I was rushed to the inpatient center.

6. I was non functioning and stopped going to school a month before the end of the semester. 

7. I have a history of GAD, starting from the age of 8, which goes hand in hand with Bipolar Disorder. 

8. I contemplated stabbing myself in the chest during a depressive episode. I held the scissors at my heart, until I put it down in a brief moment. 

9. I lost control of my bladder due to anxiety

10. I had anxiety attacks all the time

11. I had painful heart palpitations that resulted in me passing out before I could call 911.

12.  And finally:

When I was switching medications, I went without meds for only two days and ALL my symptoms came back, PLUS psychosis. So I had to have my medication adjusted at the inpatient center AGAIN. 

So tell me how Depression isn’t a real illness. Tell me that I have low Iman and that I need to pray away my illness. And guess what? Since meds and therapy, my symptoms have not returned, and I feel like myself again. 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

@Laayla

Here’s why Bipolar Disorder is a real illness:

1. I went six entire days without a wink of sleep and experienced auditory hallucinations like sirens and seeing light brown ants on the ground. (And I would go several days without sleep until I would fall asleep for a day. Six days was just the most I went without sleep at a time.) This is called severe mania. I also had a “high” or euphoric mood for months at a time, that was out of my control. 

2. My depressive and manic episodes were so close together I had periods of no normal mood in between.

3. I had my first depressive episode at 9, which lasted for one year, and again at 11, which lasted until 13, until I had my first manic episode.

4. I thought of suicide nonstop before I got treatment.

5. I broke glass picture frames on my feet before I was rushed to the inpatient center.

6. I was non functioning and stopped going to school a month before the end of the semester. 

7. I have a history of GAD, starting from the age of 8, which goes hand in hand with Bipolar Disorder. 

8. I contemplated stabbing myself in the chest during a depressive episode. I held the scissors at my heart, until I put it down in a brief moment. 

9. I lost control of my bladder due to anxiety

10. I had anxiety attacks all the time

11. I had painful heart palpitations that resulted in me passing out before I could call 911.

12.  And finally:

When I was switching medications, I went without meds for only two days and ALL my symptoms came back, PLUS psychosis. So I had to have my medication adjusted at the inpatient center AGAIN. 

So tell me how Depression isn’t a real illness. Tell me that I have low Iman and that I need to pray away my illness. And guess what? Since meds and therapy, my symptoms have not returned, and I feel like myself again. 

My god...

@Laayla this is the real face of mental illness, this is bipolar depression; Like brother forte said, people who suffer from bipolar depression,schizophrenia and depression are at the mercy of their brain chemistry without the medication.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2017 at 2:16 PM, Langar said:

Antidepressants help in the short term but they strip you of your emotions leaving you feeling emotionally flat which kind of makes you feel another kind of crap. But still its better than suffocating in your own skin. Feelings can get lost.

Honestly, i've been on anti-depressants for a very long time. I can be the most emotional person in the world. I still cry when i watch Shawshank redemption

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

@Laayla

Here’s why Bipolar Disorder is a real illness:

1. I went six entire days without a wink of sleep and experienced auditory hallucinations like sirens and seeing light brown ants on the ground. (And I would go several days without sleep until I would fall asleep for a day. Six days was just the most I went without sleep at a time.) This is called severe mania. I also had a “high” or euphoric mood for months at a time, that was out of my control. 

2. My depressive and manic episodes were so close together I had periods of no normal mood in between.

3. I had my first depressive episode at 9, which lasted for one year, and again at 11, which lasted until 13, until I had my first manic episode.

4. I thought of suicide nonstop before I got treatment.

5. I broke glass picture frames on my feet before I was rushed to the inpatient center.

6. I was non functioning and stopped going to school a month before the end of the semester. 

7. I have a history of GAD, starting from the age of 8, which goes hand in hand with Bipolar Disorder. 

8. I contemplated stabbing myself in the chest during a depressive episode. I held the scissors at my heart, until I put it down in a brief moment. 

9. I lost control of my bladder due to anxiety

10. I had anxiety attacks all the time

11. I had painful heart palpitations that resulted in me passing out before I could call 911.

12.  And finally:

When I was switching medications, I went without meds for only two days and ALL my symptoms came back, PLUS psychosis. So I had to have my medication adjusted at the inpatient center AGAIN. 

So tell me how Depression isn’t a real illness. Tell me that I have low Iman and that I need to pray away my illness. And guess what? Since meds and therapy, my symptoms have not returned, and I feel like myself again. 

I have never read something so relatable in my life. My manic episodes also began really young, around 6 or 7.  @Laayla is this because 7 yr old me did not have enough imaan, or because she was using "the power of vulnerability"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2017 at 5:27 PM, Gaius I. Caesar said:

My god...

@Laayla this is the real face of mental illness, this is bipolar depression; Like brother forte said, people who suffer from bipolar depression,schizophrenia and depression are at the mercy of their brain chemistry without the medication.

And God forbid we are ever left at the mercy of our Brain chemistry. It's mercy has landed me in the psychiatric ward 3 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Langar said:

Just go to your GP and ask for antidepressants, they give them out like sweets.

This is true. But that doesn't make them any less important.

For example, anti-biotics. Here in the UK there has been a major crackdown on handing them out. They, too were being handed out like sweets, causing bacterial strains to become resitant, like MRSA. However, despite all this, people still need anti-biotics. They are still just as important

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2017 at 6:01 PM, Afsaneh14 said:

And God forbid we are ever left at the mercy of our Brain chemistry. It's mercy has landed me in the psychiatric ward 3 times.

I feel my emotions like a regular person (I’m not a zombie or numb.) and I’m on Anti-psychotics. I’m not a crier during movies, but I did cry seeing The Patriot (The scene where Mel Gibson’s character has to watch Heath Ledger’s character die.) last night. Powerful stuff. 

That said, I’m not that outwardly emotional, but that’s just me. I’m very stable in terms of mood, Alhamdulilah.

Edited by Hameedeh
The member edited her post. This quote was edited to reflect what was in the post being quoted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2017 at 6:24 PM, Islandsandmirrors said:

I feel my emotions like a regular person (I’m not a zombie or numb.) and I’m on Anti-psychotics. I’m not a crier during movies, but I did cry seeing The Patriot (The scene where Mel Gibson’s character has to watch Heath Ledger’s character die.) last night. Powerful stuff. 

That said, I’m not that outwardly emotional, but that’s just me. I’m very stable in terms of mood, Alhamdulilah.

Haha yeah same. And movies like the Green Mile.

I have always been a bit of an overly passionate and emotional person. It might just be my Afghan blood lol. As for mood, at the end of the day bipolar is bipolar. I also have BPD, so i do have the odd episode from time to time. But alhamdililah, nothing serious :)

Also, my mood seems to get drastically worse when the season changes, like in october when autumn starts, or May when spring starts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, kirtc said:

the replies speak for themselves subhan Allah

Does that mean you now understand there are clinical mental disorders that have treatment options? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, kirtc said:

the replies speak for themselves subhan Allah

I would ask why.  But i don't want my face to break from face palming too hard

Edited by Afsaneh14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Afsaneh14 said:

Haha yeah same. And movies like the Green Mile.

I have always been a bit of an overly passionate and emotional person. It might just be my Afghan blood lol. As for mood, at the end of the day bipolar is bipolar. I also have BPD, so i do have the odd episode from time to time. But alhamdililah, nothing serious :)

Also, my mood seems to get drastically worse when the season changes, like in october when autumn starts, or May when spring starts

I haven’t seen that movie yet, but I’d like to. :) have you seen Fences? Viola Davis is excellent. 

I’m pretty passionate, too. But mostly about the things I like: writing, and mental health. And yeah, Borderline would make things MUCH harder as well, but I’m glad you’re also doing well. :)

I used to have those mood changes as well, but not recently. I think they are pretty common, actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I haven’t seen that movie yet, but I’d like to. :) have you seen Fences? Viola Davis is excellent. 

I’m pretty passionate, too. But mostly about the things I like: writing, and mental health. And yeah, Borderline would make things MUCH harder as well, but I’m glad you’re also doing well. :)

I used to have those mood changes as well, but not recently. I think they are pretty common, actually.

Funny you mentioned it! Me and my sister were watching it just the other day. Personally, for me it was kinda boring but my sister LOVED it. She was struggling a bit but i think denzel washington's acting and the storyline gave her a real mood boost:grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Afsaneh14 said:

Funny you mentioned it! Me and my sister were watching it just the other day. Personally, for me it was kinda boring but my sister LOVED it. She was struggling a bit but i think denzel washington's acting and the storyline gave her a real mood boost:grin:

Haha no way! Must be telepathy! :D I’m glad at least your sister liked it! And yeah, Denzel’s acting is what made it a bit more light hearted. :D 

Have you seen the theater performance of James Earl Jones as Troy? One word: intense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • @E.L King gave great advice. Also make sure that even if she doesn't listen, you don't let her think that you're fine with her not wearing hijab (Sayed Sistani). But you have to remember to give her the message in a way that resonates with her and is most likely to produce a response. It also doesn't mean you should stop treating her with kindness - on the condition that such treatment doesn't encourage her in her ways, in which case even breaking ties with family is wajib if it's the only way to stop them from committing sins (see Sayed Khamenei's Q and A on this topic). So pray for her and find the best way to guide her to fulfilling this important obligation.
    • As l posted during Europe's refugee "crisis". one country built something like 75-100km of border 'wall' (chain link, razor wire, and all) in a weekend following a week or more on another section of their southern border.
    • A new anti-Trump book has been released. Collusion by Luke Harding(2017). These two book reviews express skepticism over the inherent validity of any innuendo or "relationships" between Russia and Trump. ln a BBC interview, 23Nov17, Harding said this putting-Trump-in-the-Soviet/Russian-camp has been a Moscow objective since the 1980s. https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/luke-harding/collusion-harding/  https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/promotionalss/article/75310-vintage-to-release-collusion-a-new-book-on-trump-russia-controversy.html
    • Whoever is telling you "that's between her and Allah it does not concern you" is ignoring the commandment of Allah to enjoin good and forbid evil. Enjoining good and forbidding evil is even more important when it comes to your own family members. If she has her mind made up and you cannot stop her, then it is not wajib on you anymore, only then can you let it go. But if you can stop her by convincing her through dialogue and preaching, then it is wajib on you to to try. But you should never show pleasure in these actions of hers. May Allah bless you.
    • Yeah I think she's exactly the same.
×