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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

I thank you sister I&M for sharing your experience. My posts are not to convince you to stop taking your drugs cold turkey.  I'm not trying to persuade you to stop, that is your decision to make and yours only. 

MK I respect your opinion, but do not agree with it.  To me, the solution is within Islam.  God sent Rasoul Allah and Ahulbayt and they always said "ask me, ask me" and I'm convinced they have the answers for our mental health.  I explained martyr families and their beliefs help them to carry on in this world.

How is it that Sayyida Zaynab is capable of praying salat al layl the next night after witnessing Karbala?  Why are these majlis repeated every year to us?  Who has suffered more than Sayyida Zaynab?  What is the point of repeating Karbala every year if we don't derive lessons from it?  Maybe for you Imam Hussain means to stand up against tyrants or it was a massive revolution against good vs. evil.  What does it mean when Sayyida Zaynab says, "I saw nothing but beauty."   What does that possibly mean?  Can you fathom that statement?  What a powerful, eye awakening, awe inspiring statement.

Do we have a relationship with Quran?  Do we truly believe the cure is within Quran?  Or is it just a ceremonial book for marriage or to bring blessings in the house as dust builds up on the cover?  We need to find where are weaknesses are and work on it.  Nobody knows ourselves better than ourselves.

Do I have all the answers?  Of course not, I would be a fool and naive for it to even cross my mind.  But within the depths of my heart, I know Quran and Ahulbayt are our salvation and our answer to every ailment, to every disease, to every sorrow we experience in this life.  We are not created for this world, we need to remove our attachment to this dunya. 

I'm proud to admit and have no shame in saying I watch Youtube videos.  Thank you for addressing it. 

Start at 5:56

@kirtc

@starlight

A neuroscientist talking about drugs.  Medical ethics and the conversations you should have with your dr.  Thank you for your time.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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20 hours ago, Laayla said:

Using the word numb was not my words but @rkazmi33 Reread what he said above.

I put the video, if you don't want to watch the whole thing start at 15:19 to indicate how numbing your problems won't solve anything.  These emotions can't magically disappear by taking drugs.

Alhamd'Allah we have examples of people who did take these drugs and got off of them.  You can confront your problems and face them head on  or you can continue temporarily put your problems on hold while taking drugs.  

Each and every one of us face battles.  We either fight a good fight, fall and get right back up, keep trying, or stay on the floor and wait until you are strong enough to face your enemy or in this case your problems.

Constant negative thought needs to be changed to gratitude.  I'm convinced that our religion has the solution for every problem.  Duas is our weapon, quran cures mind, body, and soul and Ahulbayt always show their karamat.

Our martyrs families live after the death of a father, son, brother, husband.  It would be unfair if I said all, so I will say most are not on drugs, their comfort is Allah.  What keeps them going is Imam Hussain and the mountain of patience Sayyida Zaynab and of course patience that Allah has instilled in them.

They do ziyarats to Sayyida Zaynab and Imams  and attend majalis.  Remove your hearts from love of this life.  Reprioritize what is important and how our lives was not created for this world but the Hereafter.  Our focus and goal should be how do we save ourselves from hellfire and do as much good works in this temporary life.  Because now it is the stage of action without punishment, after death it is a day of accountability with no good works available.

I speak to myself first and this is a reminder for me to practice what I'm saying.  I do realize each day is a struggle and some of us have medical conditions and health problems.  God cure every sickness and help us in every step of the way.  Please Allah do not take us from this dunya until you are pleased with us.  My reply is just to motivate and encourage a change of thinking.  I do not know what is going on in your personal lives.  Allah swt help you in your difficulties and give you strength and energy to overcome your illness.  

I know i keep using this example, and it's tedious and annoying. But next time you get a flu (God forbid) dont go to the doctor. Just pray it away. Baring in mind Allah only helps those who help themselves. As a psychiatric patient just like @Islandsandmirrors the only way i could help myself is by medication.

It's so sad that our religion teaches so much compassion and acceptance, but our Ummah seem to be struggling to accept severe, life-threatening illnesses.

I don't think you will ever understand, unless you yourself suffer from a mental illness. However, i hope you never do, even though it is probably the only way you could stop being so stubborn. It is an illness that i wouldn't even wish upon an enemy.

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10 hours ago, Laayla said:

I thank you sister I&M for sharing your experience. My posts are not to convince you to stop taking your drugs cold turkey.  I'm not trying to persuade you to stop, that is your decision to make and yours only. 

MK I respect your opinion, but do not agree with it.  To me, the solution is within Islam.  God sent Rasoul Allah and Ahulbayt and they always said "ask me, ask me" and I'm convinced they have the answers for our mental health.  I explained martyr families and their beliefs help them to carry on in this world.

How is it that Sayyida Zaynab is capable of praying salat al layl the next night after witnessing Karbala?  Why are these majlis repeated every year to us?  Who has suffered more than Sayyida Zaynab?  What is the point of repeating Karbala every year if we don't derive lessons from it?  Maybe for you Imam Hussain means to stand up against tyrants or it was a massive revolution against good vs. evil.  What does it mean when Sayyida Zaynab says, "I saw nothing but beauty."   What does that possibly mean?  Can you fathom that statement?  What a powerful, eye awakening, awe inspiring statement.

Do we have a relationship with Quran?  Do we truly believe the cure is within Quran?  Or is it just a ceremonial book for marriage or to bring blessings in the house as dust builds up on the cover?  We need to find where are weaknesses are and work on it.  Nobody knows ourselves better than ourselves.

Do I have all the answers?  Of course not, I would be a fool and naive for it to even cross my mind.  But within the depths of my heart, I know Quran and Ahulbayt are our salvation and our answer to every ailment, to every disease, to every sorrow we experience in this life.  We are not created for this world, we need to remove our attachment to this dunya. 

I'm proud to admit and have no shame in saying I watch Youtube videos.  Thank you for addressing it. 

It is not a matter of agreement.  You displayed ignorance on the issue of mental health and continue to do so in this post.  If you were to come down with a serious disease, would you reject any medical treatment and leave it all to God? What about taking insulin for diabetes? Leave that to Islam too? Because that is exactly what you are proposing as a solution to serious mental health issues.  They require medication and can at times be potentially fatal.  There are people who suffer from serious mental health issues despite being from loving and stable families, your constant references to the struggles of the Ahlulbayt in this context highlights the core problem with your argument.

You are essentially blaming people with serious mental health issues for lacking imaan or character.  That is highly condescending and insensitive.  Please take a little bit of time to read about mental health before posting on these topics because we have members suffering from mental health issues and mental health is already stigmatized as it is. 

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It is all too apparent that stigma continues to be a huge problem for people living with mental illness - it is an unnecessary and cruel burden to add to someone who, as it is, lives life in a constant struggle. Ignorant attitudes undermine a person's sense of self, relationships, well-being and as well impacts prospects for achieving an acceptable quality of life.  I can't emphasize enough the importance of education and awareness.  All of us should take some time to educate ourselves about mental health diseases and their etiology...  making sure to resource from an accredited source. 

Edited by forte

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4 hours ago, Afsaneh14 said:

I know i keep using this example, and it's tedious and annoying. But next time you get a flu (God forbid) dont go to the doctor. Just pray it away. Baring in mind Allah only helps those who help themselves. As a psychiatric patient just like @Islandsandmirrors the only way i could help myself is by medication.

It's so sad that our religion teaches so much compassion and acceptance, but our Ummah seem to be struggling to accept severe, life-threatening illnesses.

I don't think you will ever understand, unless you yourself suffer from a mental illness. However, i hope you never do, even though it is probably the only way you could stop being so stubborn. It is an illness that i wouldn't even wish upon an enemy.

when i have the flu... i take ginger.. lemon.. green tea.. garlic... 

if you take flu shots or pills you are teaching your immune system not to work and grow stronger you are letting the medication do all the work.. eventually you will have such a weak immune system that you will get sick every while... 

there are natural remedies ahul beyt told us about in plants. 

what Laayla is talking about  mental health and I agree with her 100%

@Laayla

@King

Edited by kirtc

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28 minutes ago, kirtc said:

when i have the flu... i take ginger.. lemon.. green tea.. garlic... 

if you take flu shots or pills you are teaching your immune system not to work and grow stronger you are letting the medication do all the work.. eventually you will have such a weak immune system that you will get sick every while... 

there are natural remedies ahul beyt told us about in plants. 

what Laayla is talking about  mental health and I agree with her 100%

@Laayla

@King

You seem to be like the kind of person who would also refuse medications to prevent heart attacks. 

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8 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

You seem to be like the kind of person who would also refuse medications to prevent heart attacks. 

I exercise, have a very healthy diet. I eat alot of fruit and vegetables, lentils, soups, rokka, beets... This is how you prevent heartattacks... 

Thank God I live in a country where blood sausage isnt a thing.. or hamburgers arent for breakfast.

and besides, you didnt read a word I said.. 

Edited by kirtc

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On 10/8/2017 at 3:57 PM, laithAlIRAQI said:

Salam.

I feel lost and depressed. My days are unproductive, I've been home for over 2 months doing nothing, everything requires a lot of will power. I have no interest in doing anything, I barely eat and take care of myself. I feel distanced from God and I hate it, I hate myself and I hate what i have become. Im frustarted and angry, I just dont know what to do, it's driving me crazy and I just can't take it anymore. I have no patience, every small thing triggers me and makes me explode. I spend most of my time alone so I dont upset my parents and they hate the way I am. Sometimes I feel like harming myself, But I fight the urge.

Sometimes I wonder if I even fear God anymore, i went through a phase and stopped praying for a while, But got back to it. I try my best to pray the 5 daily prayer, but sometimes I just can't. I keep telling myself that I will change for the better and make a difference, But it just never happens. I dont trust myself anymore, I end up feeling hopeless and just wish God would take my soul already. 

Recite salawat and say astaghfirullah each time you have these feelings taking over your mind.

Push yourself to go on about your daily activities and remember, losing hope in God mercy upon us is fatal. He created you for a purpose and He tests you to refine you. Be strong and trust in Him, He will guide you.

Recite zeyarat Ashura... Arba'een is today/tonight/tomorrow

May Allah heal you by the right of Muhamad and Ale Muhamad. 

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6 hours ago, forte said:

It is all too apparent that stigma continues to be a huge problem for people living with mental illness - it is an unnecessary and cruel burden to add to someone who, as it is, lives life in a constant struggle. Ignorant attitudes undermine a person's sense of self, relationships, well-being and as well impacts prospects for achieving an acceptable quality of life.  I can't emphasize enough the importance of education and awareness.  All of us should take some time to educate ourselves about mental health diseases and their etiology...  making sure to resource from an accredited source. 

I posted this link before on here in another thread but I thought I'd post it again...

Mental Health Stigma in the Muslim Community

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1 hour ago, Akbar673 said:

I posted this link before on here in another thread but I thought I'd post it again...

Mental Health Stigma in the Muslim Community

This is an excellent, resourced article.

Abstract

Mental illness stigma continues to be a major barrier for individuals with mental illness. In this paper, we

1. define constructs that comprise stigma (e.g., attitudes, stereotypes, prejudice, discrimination),

2. discuss the harmful effects (e.g., label avoidance, public stigma, self-stigma) and

3. present factors that may influence them (e.g., concealability).

In order to better understand mental health stigma in Muslim community, we

4. focus on intersectional stigma and present literature on the complex relationships among race/ethnicity, gender, class, religion, and health status among Muslims. In addition, we

5. include literature highlighting culturally specific presentations of symptoms and mental health problems. 

Thank you for posting this.  

Unfortunately for those who are suffering, it will take a long time for centuries-old, culturally based prejudice and discrimination to be overcome - just like any negative, harmful attitude and stereotype. Intolerance, ignorance and fear of the unknown continues to impact many innocent people who struggle for basic mental health survival and community acceptance, sometimes with devastating results.

In addition, the silence from those in our community, who are educated and knowledgeable, is deafening.  I am not sure which behaviour is more harmful.

Edited by forte

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40 minutes ago, forte said:

Unfortunately for those who are suffering, it will take a long time for centuries-old, culturally based prejudice and discrimination to be overcome - just like any negative, harmful attitude and stereotype. Intolerance, ignorance and fear of the unknown continues to impact many innocent people who struggle for basic mental health survival and community acceptance, sometimes with devastating results.

In addition, the silence from those in our community, who are educated and knowledgeable, is deafening.  I am not sure which behaviour is more harmful.

In my opinion the old prejudices and labeling of Mental Illness as well as the stigma towards people who suffer from them is an indicator of regardless of how far the Muslim Ummah thinks its advanced there are still levels of Jahilya still pervading it. 

The attitude towards Mental Health issues is one example of that.

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@Akbar673 @forte

No one here is stigmatising psychiatric illnesses. I made the earlier post to talk about how psychiatric patients are hooked to drugs for life despite their proven inefficacy to cure mental illnesses. Psychiatric drugs treat only symptoms and their use should be limited to acute stages with a focus on tapering them off as soon as possible.  Support, rehabilitation,psychotherapy , life style changes are what really manage the illness,which brings me to what sis @Laayla was saying. Getting closer to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى,strengthening your faith, doing charity, not losing hope in Allah's help and mercy is the best for of psychotherapy and meditation a person can do.

I wanted to make a much detailed post but am unable to find the time,unfortunately.

Here is what the director of National Institute of Mental Health(NIMH,US) Thomas Insel has to say about psychiatric medication 

"Four decades of drug development resulting in over 20 antipsychotics and over 30 antidepressants have not demonstrably reduced the morbidity or mortality of mental disorders,"

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4 hours ago, kirtc said:

I exercise, have a very healthy diet. I eat alot of fruit and vegetables, lentils, soups, rokka, beets... This is how you prevent heartattacks... 

Thank God I live in a country where blood sausage isnt a thing.. or hamburgers arent for breakfast.

and besides, you didnt read a word I said.. 

Some of the healthiest people in the world, like athletes for example, can get heart failure. Obviously, by being healthy, the risk is reduced immensely, but it can still affect anyone. Just like mental illness.

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There is no cure at this time, and so, of course, there is no reduction in morbidity or mortality with those who use psychotropics.  Medications for people with serious brain chemistry abnormalities (and there is a ton of literature on this), have significantly improved the ability of those afflicted to live a somewhat normal (and often safe) life - what we nonchalantly take for granted is a daily painful, struggle for others.  To stigmatize (and yes, these judgemental and arrogant comments are stigmatizing) people who need these medications is exceptionally cruel. I am a mental health professional and have seen, first hand, those who are literally imprisoned by their illness be able to have a functional status when successful titration of medications is achieved.  The co-morbidity of depression and other  life impactful disorders is significant.  Often, one cannot be determined and addressed without treatment, first, of the other.  Bipolar, schizo-affective bipolar and schizophrenia should not be left untreated - and to suggest to people to go off their meds in favour of some arrogant faulty based ideas is grossly irresponsible.  When untreated, for mere bipolar alone, suicidal ideation and attempt is 25% or greater with completed suicides around 14 - 15%.  

Many in our community life a life of hell - they are hidden, chastised and demeaned due to lack of education and understanding.  It is incredibly sad that this goes on, but it is even more upsetting that these ideas are being promoted and fostered. 

Edited by forte

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8 minutes ago, Afsaneh14 said:

Some of the healthiest people in the world, like athletes for example, can get heart failure. Obviously, by being healthy, the risk is reduced immensely, but it can still affect anyone. Just like mental illness.

Absolutely!  Actually, there are many cases of athletes in prime condition suffering fatal heart attacks due to the fact that their congenital heart conditions were never diagnosed but became apparent due to the extra stress on the heart...  so much judgement here to do with illness.  I am really surprised!

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4 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

This is a message I sent a while ago to a Sheikh in regards to antidepressant drugs, on a thread that sister @Afsaneh14 created

nuru.thumb.png.39badd06a9aa0eb2b0db1c80befa33dd.png

Unless anyone here is a sheikh and can refute this, which i highly doubt anyone who has been vocal about their ignorant opinions on this topic....

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7 minutes ago, forte said:

There is no cure at this time, and so, of course, there is no reduction in morbidity or mortality.  Medications for people with serious brain chemistry abnormalities (and there is a ton of literature on this), has significantly improved the ability of those afflicted to live a somewhat normal (and often safe) life - what we nonchalantly take for granted is a daily struggle for others.  To stigmatize (and yes, these judgemental and arrogant comments are stigmatizing) people who need these medications is exceptionally cruel. I am a mental health professional and have seen, first hand, those who are literally imprisoned by their illness be able to have a functional status when successful titration of medications is achieved.  The co-morbidity of depression and other  life impactful disorders is significant.  Often, one cannot be determined and addressed without treatment, first, of the other.  Bipolar, schizo-affective bipolar and schizophrenia should not be left untreated - and to suggest to people to go off their meds in favour of some arrogant faulty based ideas is grossly irresponsible.  When untreated, for mere bipolar alone, suicidal ideation and attempt is 25% or greater with completed suicides around 14 - 15%.  

Many in our community life a life of hell - they are hidden, chastised and demeaned due to lack of education and understanding.  It is incredibly sad that this goes on, but it is even more upsetting that these ideas are being promoted and fostered. 

Exactly. And to begin with, no one even said that meds "cure" mental illness in the first place.

And just like sister @Islandsandmirrors i too have been hospitalized as a result of mental illness, yet faced this stigma and constant guilt from other muslims.

Honestly, i believe my mental health would not have been as bad if it wasnt for fellow muslims basically suggesting I was the problem. I was ungrateful. I didn't have enough faith in God. I needed to pray more I was sinning etc...

These things from self acclaimed sheikhs turned what was already a dark tunnel into a living hell. I remember for a while it turned me away from religion, because it's people seemed so arrogant, insensitive and most of all BACKWARDS.

But alhamdilillah, i found my religion's true colours in its all-loving and all merciful creator. 

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The human. A complex mind. Each experience differs from the next. No one has the same mind, each persons requires a different coping mechanism. Instead of stigmatizing or pushing your approach, why not, figure out the best methods, list them down and advice the patients to try them.

Good eating habits - what type of foods? - recipes ? -

"Physical activity has been shown to be effective in alleviating mild to moderate depression and anxiety," said Carol Janney, lead author of the study and an MSU assistant professor of epidemiology. "Current physical activity guidelines advise at least 30 minutes, five days a week to promote mental and physical health.

Faith -

Religion -

Goals. -

Thinking -

Behaviour -

Encouragement -

Reduction of medication over a time period? -

Support -

if a person is over weight and has been on medications for five years, how will we help that person change?. What if they are now secluded, have poor eating, sleeping habits to poor body image?.  they cannot go to the gym at the time you like to go?..

The problem with advice is, that it is selfish in nature and none wants to be on the journey with the ones they are advising. As it may take years for small changes.

Time to run away now....

 

Edited by monad

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7 minutes ago, monad said:

The human. A complex mind. Each experience differs from the next. No one has the same mind, each persons requires a different coping mechanism. Instead of stigmatizing or pushing your approach, why not, figure out the best methods, list them down and advice the patients to try them.

Good eating habits - what type of foods? - recipes ? -

"Physical activity has been shown to be effective in alleviating mild to moderate depression and anxiety," said Carol Janney, lead author of the study and an MSU assistant professor of epidemiology. "Current physical activity guidelines advise at least 30 minutes, five days a week to promote mental and physical health.

Faith -

Religion -

Goals. -

Thinking -

Behaviour -

Encouragement -

Reduction of medication over a time period? -

Support -

if a person is over weight and has been on medications for five years, how will we help that person change?. What if they are now secluded, have poor eating, sleeping habits to poor body image?.  they cannot go to the gym at the time you like to go?..

The problem with advice is, that it is selfish in nature and none wants to be on the journey with the ones they are advising. As it may take years for small changes.

Time to run away now....

 

That is exactly why it is so stigmatized. Everyone thinks they know what's best for a mentally ill patient, when in reality, it is VERY difficult to determine. Drugs work for some people, and for others it doesn't.

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41 minutes ago, Afsaneh14 said:

Unless anyone here is a sheikh and can refute this, which i highly doubt anyone who has been vocal about their ignorant opinions on this topic....

The debate here isn't about psychiatric drugs being halal or haram.

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51 minutes ago, forte said:

There is no cure at this time, and so, of course, there is no reduction in morbidity or mortality with those who use psychotropics.

Okay.. so you admitted that they don't cure people , nor do they decrease mortality or morbidity then what argument have you in favour of taking psychiatric medications over prolonged periods(10+ years) ?? 

I have a cousin who has Rheumatoid Arthritis for over 15 yrs now. All she's has done for her condition is take painkillers while vehemently resisting physiotherapy and lifestyle changes.Why? Just because popping pills is easier and offers quick relief albeit short term.After 15 years she is servery crippled and wheel chair bound. I believe this is what happens to lots of psychiatric patients too when drugs form the mainstay of treatment and psychotherapy and lifestyle changes take a back seat.

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On 11/9/2017 at 1:28 PM, starlight said:

Okay.. so you admitted that they don't cure people , nor do they decrease mortality or morbidity then what argument have you in favour of taking psychiatric medications over prolonged periods(10+ years) ?? 

I have a cousin who has Rheumatoid Arthritis for over 15 yrs now. All she's has done for her condition is take painkillers while vehemently resisting physiotherapy and lifestyle changes.Why? Just because popping pills is easier and offers quick relief albeit short term.After 15 years she is servery crippled and wheel chair bound. I believe this is what happens to lots of psychiatric patients too when drugs form the mainstay of treatment and psychotherapy and lifestyle changes take a back seat.

In terms of illnesses like arthiritis diabetes, cholesterol problems etc i do believe that people take advantage of drugs in a bad way, so as to simply not change their lifestyle.

But imagine trying to change your lifestyle, while you are living with a mind that is trying to die. That's what living with a mental illness is like.

What your cousin is doind IS called "numbing problems" that people with mental illness are constantly accused of. However, we also need to put ourselves in your cousin's shoes. Saying something is one thing, doing it is another

Of course, referring back to @monad's post, what works for one person won't work for the other. Not every patient will require medication. But some of our brains are just simply unable to produce a healthy amount if hormones.

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4 minutes ago, Afsaneh14 said:

But imagine trying to change your lifestyle, while you are living with a mind that is trying to die

Repeating myself once again ..take medicines when you are in such a bad shape that 'your mind is trying to die' take all the help from meds you need to get back on your feet but once you do take care of other more important variables ASAP.

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