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Is Taqlid purely an aqli daleel near the Maraje?

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1 hour ago, shuaybi said:

Ok. Is it fair to say that at this point you don't know how your jurist has proved the validity of the 3 laws of taqlid (become a mujtahid, remain a muqallid or exercise ihtiyat). Whether he has proved it through reason or hadith? You also need to research further.

Tell me exactly, which part is irrational, illogical and against intellect? 

A goat can't read/comprehend the book, unless it has intellect.(prerequisit).

*****

Taqlid

Following a Mujtahid

1. It is necessary for a Muslim to believe in the fundamentals of faith on the basis of proof and he cannot follow anyone in this respect i.e. he cannot accept he word of another with regard to the fundamentals without demanding proof.

However, in order to act on Islamic code (except in those matters which are considered by all to be indisputable e.g. the obligatory nature of the five daily prayers, fasting during the holy month of Ramadan etc.) a person must adopt one of the following methods:

    i) The man concerned should be a Mujtahid (jurist)1 himself and should know the Articles of Acts on the basis of Ijtihad2and reason (i.e. he should be a man of such high learning and scholarship that he can solve problems from his study of the Qur’an and Hadith).

    ii) If he is not a jurist himself, he should follow a jurist i.e. he should act according to the judgment (fatwa) of the jurist without demanding proof.

    iii) If he is neither a jurist nor a follower (muqallid) he should act after taking such precaution that he should become sure of his having performed his religious duty. For example, if some jurists consider an act to be unlawful and some others say that it is not unlawful, he should not perform that act and in case some jurists consider an act to be obligatory (wajib) and others consider it to be recommended (mustahab) he should perform it. Hence it is obligatory for those persons who are not jurists and cannot also take precautionary measures (ihtiyat) to follow a jurist.3

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid#following-mujtahid

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18 hours ago, IbnMariam said:

Several points, although I feel like a broken record:

Most give us the following guidelines for following islamic law: 

1. Either you are a mujtahid and capable of deducing laws from the texts, or you're not a mujtahid and not capable of doing so. In the case of not being a mujtahid, you either exercise precaution between the rulings of the mujtahideen, or you follow the most learned mujtahid who tells us what he believes (without doubt) the laws are.

2. If you do not act within these guidelines, your actions ie your prayers, fasting, wudhu, ghusl, zakat, hajj, umrah etc are all void.

3. You are to take these rulings without investigating the arguments for them. They are literally a proof upon you by virtue of being the saying of the most learned mujtahid. No need to look into the narrations of the ahlulbayt.

 

I have a few problems with the guidelines above:

1) I have yet to see justification for them in the ahadith

2) They suggest that one can fulfill their duty of obeying the imams without even reading their words. It makes no sense. If you haven't read the words of the imams, how do you know what their commands are? How does the declaration of a famous fallible man I don't even know ensure that I know I'm following my imams? 

3) If these guidelines are clearly from the ahlulbayt, then why have they only been adhered to and practised in recent history? 


Brother, what you've said is actually part of the argument against taqlid, they are not ma'soom, so how can one justify blindly following any of them? The arguments for taqlid tend to cite various verses and narrations, yet under scrutiny, these arguments tend not to justify the position of taqlid as is commonly known. For example, above, the brother cited a verse of the qur'an regarding ahl al-dhikr, but when you look at the narrations, it's reported from multiple imams across several chains that they themselves are ahl al-dhikr. There's no mention of mujtahideen or the ghayba in relation to this verse, and you can't just assume this either as the true explanation and understanding of the qur'an is with the ahlulbayt.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should throw the works of recent scholars down the toilet, and that they are useless charlatans. They are all well beyond my level, and it stands to reason that a student takes knowledge from a teacher. Some of you may have even seen me cite Sistani when discussing an issue without reference to the ahadith. I'm willing to consider that there is an irrefutable argument that I am not aware of for taqlid and it's conditions, but I've yet to see it. The arguments I have seen time and again are full of holes, and those holes never get plugged. 

First condition is :

2. Following (taqlid) means acting according to the judgment of a jurist. It is necessary that the jurist who is followed is male, Shi’ah Ithna ‘Asha’ari,4 adult, sane, legitimate, alive and just (‘adil). A person is said to be just when he performs all those acts which are obligatory for him and refrains from all those things which are prohibited for him. And the sign of a man’s being just is that he is apparently a good man so that if enquiries are made about him from the people of his locality or from his neighbours or from those persons with whom he associates, they should confirm his goodness. And if it is known that the judgments of the jurists differ with regard to the problems which we face in everyday life, it is necessary that the jurist who is followed should be a’lam (the most learned jurist) who possesses better capacity to understand religious matters as compared with his contemporary jurists.

3. There are three ways of identifying a jurist or the most learned jurist:

i) When a person personally believes that such and such person is a jurist or the most learned jurist. For confirming this he should be a learned person himself and should possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist.

ii) When two persons, who are learned and just and possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist, should certify to a person’s being a jurist or the most learned jurist, provided that two other learned and just persons do not contradict them. And apparently the fact of a person’s being a jurist or the most learned jurist is also proved by the statement of only one person who is reliable.

iii) When many learned persons who possess the capacity to identify a jurist or the most learned jurist should certify to a person’s being jurist or the most learned jurist and when one is satisfied by their statement.

4. If it is not possible to identify the most learned jurist on account of some difference of opinions among the jurists, a person should take precautionary measures and if it is not possible to do so, he should follow that jurist whom he himself considers to be the most learned jurist. In fact even if there is a weak possibility of a person being the most learned jurist and one knows that as compared with him there is no other most learned jurist, one should follow that jurist.

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui/taqlid#following-mujtahid

*****

Above should take care of few doubts. 

"

Islam's established laws and orders like Prayers, Hajj, Zakat (tax), are compulsory. Enjoining towards good, refraining from evil, lying, breach of trust, backbiting, wine, etc. which are prohibited and there is no need to follow a Mujtahid for them as these are known by everyone, therefore Taqlid is limited up to those laws and orders which are not absolutely established."

https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-3-why-should-we-do-taqlid

1.       The Holy Qur’an is opposed to any kind of following (Taqlid) and it is absolutely against blindly following anyone.

https://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-nasir-makarim-shirazi-jafar-subhani/question-100-following-taqlid-religious

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Ayatullah Sayyid Abulqasim al-Khui

https://www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-abul-qasim-al-khui

Najaf, Iraq

Ayatullah al-Sayyid Ali al-Hussani al-Sistani.

https://www.sistani.org/english/book/48/

Qom, Iran

Ayatullah Wahid Khorasani

http://www.islamic-laws.com/download/Islamic Laws - Sheikh Wahid Khorasani.pdf

There is a reason, I am only including Qom & Najaf to keep it strictly on Taqlid. 

Above are the Islamic Law, books of the Top Jurists ( Dean of the Two Law Schools). To gauge this issue, first look at what is exactly the real issue here, since many subtopics have been introduced. 

The Islamic Laws of the Top institution, what percentage is similar. Correct me here, I would say, 95-97% of the Laws form the Two Institutions are the same. Which means that chance of error, in their understanding of the Law is very small. 

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9 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

As an open note: Can you provide me the reference of book/books which contain the explanation given by Imam (s) of all 6236 verses of Quran?

If you are unable to provide any reference, let me know is there any prohibition in doing "tafakkur" on the verses of Quran? or is there any prohibition in doing "tafakkur" on the systems created by Allah (and that includes the system of guidance)?

I can provide you the explanation of the Imams (as) on this particular verse.

Do you know the difference between contemplation and interpretation?

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9 hours ago, shuaybi said:

I can provide you the explanation of the Imams (as) on this particular verse.

Please, I am waiting for it.

In the mean time, let me share with you what I have with me:

حدثنا احمد بن محمد عن احمد بن ابى نصر قال كتبت إلى الرضا عليه السلام كتابا فكان في بعض ماكتب إليه قال الله

عزوجل فسئلوا اهل الذكر ان كنتم لا تعلمون وقال الله وما كان المؤمنون لينفروا كافة فلولا نفر من كل فرقة منهم طائفة

ليتفقهوا في الدين ولينذروا قومهم إذا رجعوا إليهم لعلهم يحذرون فقد فرضت عليكم المسألة ولم يفرض علينا الجواب قال

الله عزوجل فان لم يستجيبوا لك فاعلم انما يتبعون اهوائهم ومن اضل ممن اتبع هويه بغير هدى من الله.

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad, from Ahmad Bin Abu Nasr who said:

‘I wrote to Al-Rezaasws a letter from one of the letters I had written to himasws, heasws said: ‘Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic has Said [16:43] so ask the People of the Reminder (Ahl Al-Zikr) if you do not know and Allahazwj has Said [9:122] And it does not beseem the believers that they should go forth all together; why should not then a company from every party from among them go forth that they may apply themselves to obtain understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they come back to them that they may be cautious? It has been Enforced upon you to ask and there is no such Enforcement upon usasws to answer. Allahazwj Says [28:50] But if they do not answer you, then know that they only follow their low desires; and who is more erring than he who follows his low desires without any guidance from Allah?

 

Ibn Babuwayh said, ‘My father narrated to us, from Abdullah Bin Ja’far, from Ali Bin Ismail, and Abdullah Bin Muhammad Bin Isa, from Safwan Bin Yahya, from Yaqoub Bin Shuayb,

(It has been narrated) from Abu Abdullahasws, said, ‘I said to himasws, ‘When the Imamasws passes away and (its news) reaches a people who were not in hisasws presence?’ Heasws said: ‘They should go forth in search (as to who the successorasws is). Thus they would not cease to be in a state of being excused for as long as they are in their search.

I said, ‘Should all of them go forth or would it suffice for some of them to go forth?’ Surely Allahazwj Mighty and Majestic is Saying [9:122] why should not then a company from every party from among them go forth that they may apply themselves to obtain understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they come back to them that they may be cautious? Those (remaing ones) should be in their places until their companions return back to them’.

The underlined explanation are not the words of Imam and does not present in Arabic text of hadith. So the matter of "Yatafaqqahu fid-deen" is not limited to finding the successor.

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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4 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

The underlined explanation are not the words of Imam and does not present in Arabic text of hadith. So the matter of "Yatafaqqahu fid-deen" is not limited to finding the successor.

The one who does Yatafaqquhu fid-deen is a faqih. Do you know what is the definition of a faqih as defined by the imams (as)?

The mujtahids claim to be the Fuqaha (plural of Faqih), but do they fit the definition of Fuqaha as defined in the hadith literature? In the hadith, we find the Imams (as) describing the Fuqaha as the Muhaddithin (which literally means the narrators of their hadith). They have almost equated the terms Faqih and Muhaddith. Let us look at the following narration from Imam Jafar al Sadiq (asws):

“Recognize the status of our (asws) Shia in accordance with how many good narrations they relate from us (asws), for we do not consider the ‘Faqih’ from them to be a ‘Faqih’ unless they are narrators of hadith (Muhaddith). It was said to him (asws), “Is a believer a narrator of hadith? He (asws) said: “He is an understanding one (mufhim: meaning the one who has fahm, which means understanding); and the understanding one is a narrator of hadith (al Mufhim al Muhaddith)”. [Imam Jafar al Sadiq (as), Wasail ul Shia, H. 33453]

Now I am asking for hadith used by the mujtahids to justify taqlid, and no one seems to know them.

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18 minutes ago, shuaybi said:

Now I am asking for hadith used by the mujtahids to justify taqlid, and no one seems to know them.

1- It has been narrated from our 12th Imam, Al-Hujjah (may Allah hasten his return) that he has stated:

قال الإمام الحجة القائم (عجل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). أما الحوادث الواقعة فارجعوا فيها

إلى رواة حديثنا فإنهم حجتي عليكم و أنا حجة الله

Imam Al-Hujjah Al-Qa`im (may Allah hasten his return) has said: “As for those events that will occur in the future, (for the answer on how to deal with them), refer to those people who narrate our sayings (Ahadith) since surely they (the ‘Ulama) are my proof over you and I am the proof of Allah.”

2-

أحمد بن علي بن أبي طالب الطبرسي في الإحتجاج عن أبي محمد العسكري عليه السلام في قوله تعالى (فويل للذين يكتبون الكتاب بأيديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله) قال هذه لقوم من اليهود. و قال رجل للصادق عليه السلام إذا كان هؤلاء العوام من اليهود لا يعرفون الكتاب إلا بما يسمعونه من علمائهم فكيف ذمهم بتقليدهم و القبول من علمائهم و هل عوام اليهود الا كعوامنا يقلدون علماءهم . فقال عليه السلام: بين عوامنا و عوام اليهود فرق من جهة و تسوية من جهة . أما من حيث الإستواء فإن الله ذم عوامنا بتقليدهم علماءهم كما ذم عوامهم . و أما من حيث افترقوا فإن عوام اليهود كانوا قد عرفوا علماءهم بالكذب الصراح و أكل الحرام و الرشا و تغيير الأحكام و اضطروا بقلوبهم إلى أن من فعل ذلك فهو فاسق لا يجوز أن يصدق على الله و لا على الوسائط بين الخلق و بين الله. فلذلك ذمهم و كذلك عوامنا إذا عرفوا من علمائهم الفسق الظاهر و العصبية الشديدة و التكالب على الدنيا و حرامها فمن قلد مثل هؤلاء فهو مثل اليهود الذين ذمهم الله بالتقليد لفسقة علمائهم. فأما من كان من الفقهاء صائنا لنفسه حافظاً لدينه مخالفاً على هواه مطيعا لأمر مولاه فللعوام أن يقلدوه و ذلك لا يكون إلا بعض فقهاء الشيعة لا كلهم . فإن من ركب من القبائح و الفواحش مراكب علماء العامة فلا تقبلوا منهم عنا شيئا و لا كرامة و إنما كثر التخليط فيما يتحمل عنا أهل البيت لذلك لأن الفسقة يتحملون عنا فيحرفونه بأسره لجهلهم و يضعون الأشياء على غير وجهها لقلة معرفتهم و آخرون يتعمدون الكذب علينا الحديث.

It has been narrated from Ahmad Ibn Ali Ibn Abi Talib Al-Tabrisi in Al-Ihtijaj from Abi Muhammad Al-Askari (a.s) in regards to the words of Allah (s.w.t), “So then woe be to those people who write The Book with their own hand and then say to other that this is from Allah.” The Imam (a.s) said, “This verse was in regards to a group from amongst the Jews.”

A man said to Imam As-Sadiq (a.s), “If this verse is about a group of people from amongst the Jews who did not know The Book (the revealed book from Allah) except through hearing it from their own Ulama (scholars) so how then is it possible for them to be castigated for following them and for accepting their Ulama. In addition, are not then the common folk from amongst the Jews similar to the common people from amongst us (the Muslims) who perform Taqleed (follow) their scholars?”

The Imam (a.s) replied, “Between the common people from amongst us (the Muslims) and the common people of the Jews, there is a stark difference in one respect and also one similar trait in another respect. As for the similar trait that is shared, so then surely Allah has also castigated our common people (the Muslims) who perform Taqleed (follow) their scholars (blindly) just as He has castigated the Jews. And as for the difference between the two, so then surely the common people amongst the Jews knew that their Scholars were prone to openly speak untruths and used to eat that which was forbidden for them and used to take bribes and also used to alter the practical rulings of the faith and their hearts were sent a warning that anyone from amongst them who would perform these acts would be a Fasiq (an open sinner) and that it was not permitted for him (the scholar from amongst the Jews) to speak the truths about Allah and it was also not permissible for them to act as intermediaries between the creations and Allah and thus because of this, they were castigated. Similarly are our common people (from amongst the Muslims), if they recognize open and blatant transgressions being performed by their Ulama (scholars) and strong forms of discrimination and prejudice and an attraction to the material word then whoever follows such people (does their Taqleed) will be similar to the Jews whom Allah had castigated who used to follow the transgressions of their scholars.”

“So then however, as for the Fuqaha who protect their own soul, who safeguard their religion, who go against the desires and passions of their lower desires and who are obedient to the command of their Mawla, then it is permissible for the common people to perform Taqleed (follow them in religious issues) and this state is not found except in some of the Fuqaha of the Shi’a – not all of them.

So then surely those who committed some sins and vulgar acts in a similar way that have been committed by scholars of the general stream (The Ulama of the Ahl As-Sunnah) - do not accept anything from them that they relate from us nor show them any respect. The mixed messages (Ahadith) that been related claiming to be from us (Ahlul Bait) have increased, therefore the immoral people take from us and change it completely because of their ignorance and they put things differently because of their lack of knowledge. Others deliberate to lie about us.”

 

 

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30 minutes ago, shuaybi said:

Now I am asking for hadith used by the mujtahids to justify taqlid, and no one seems to know them.

You are informed that you are asking the wrong people. Most of us are layman, common, average people. 

This question is for the Jurist to answer, you can contact Najaf, Iraq and or Qom, Iran.

For me as a layman, after looking at the conditions, Since this is not concerning Faith. It concerns the Law, either I can learn to be an expert, or go to an expert or exercise precaution and look at the rulings of few experts. This is not against , logic, rationality or Intellect.

***** 

I. The Book of Intellect and Ignorance (Kitab Al-`Aql Wa Al-Jahl)

 

أَخبرنا أبو جعفرمحمد بن يعقوب قال: حدثّني عدّة من أصحابنا منهم محمّد بن يحيى العطار, عن أحمد بن محمّد, عن الحسن بن محبوب, عن العلا بن رزين, عن محمّد بن مسلم, عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: لمّا خلق الله عزّ وجلّ العقل استنطقه ثمّ قال له: أقبل فأقبل ثمّ قال له: أدبر فأدبر ثمّ قال: وعزّتي وجلالي ما خلقت خلقاً هو أحبٌ إلىً منك ولا أكملتك إلاّ فيمن أُحبٌ, أما إنّي إيّاك آمر, وإيّاك أنهى, وإيَاك أٌعاقب, وإيّاك أُثيب.

 
1/1 (Al-Kulayni's disciples say): Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Ya`qub (al-Kulayni, the compiler of al-Kafi informed us, saying: A group of our companions (i.e. al-Kulayni's teachers), among them Muhammad ibn Yahya al-`Altar1, narrated to us from Ahmad ibn Muhammad2 , he from al-Hasan ibn Mahbub3, from al 'Ata' ibn Razin4 , from Muhammad ibn Muslims5from Abu Ja'far (al-'Imam al-Baqir) (A) that he said:
 
When God created the Intellect (al-`Aql), He examined it. Thereupon He said to it: `Come forward!' It came forward. Then He said: `Go back!' It went back. Thereupon He said: `By My power and majesty, I didn't create any creature dearer to me than thee! I will not make thee perfect except in one whom I love. Indeed, to thee are My orders and-prohibitions addressed. And for you are My rewards and retributions reserved.'

https://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/general-al-tawhid/selections-usul-al-kafi-muhammad-ibn-yaqub-al-kulayni/i-book-intellect

*****

The arbitration in most disputes is with the intellect, the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

Are you saying, that these three methods are against Intellect, Qur'an and Sunnah?

In this case, you need to articulate your case, as to how you have determined this method to be wrong, and provide your methond so the two can be compared. This will be the most logical, rational, intellectual and academic way to prove your case

Can you do that for us?

If you are going to do it, I like you to First stick to Concepts. As most of us and the readers are not experts in anything. You are talking to laypeople.( Not technical stuff)

First prove you case conceptually.

 

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Quote

4. Intellect

What is meant by the intellect here is anything that man's intellect can understand and a religious ruling can be derived from.10

An example is when Allah makes obligatory an action through a Quranic verse or reliable tradition, but one must perform another action to be able to perform this obligatory action and there is not any verse or tradition about this action. Man's intellect understands the relationship between an obligatory action and its precepts becoming obligatory. This leads to certainty about the action being obligatory.

An example of this is that Allah made the pilgrimage obligatory on anyone who has financial ability. This is found in both the Qurān and traditions. But, Allah did not mention that the travel from one's hometown to Mecca is obligatory, even though it is a necessary precept to performing the pilgrimage.

Man's intellect understands the relationship between performing the pilgrimage and having to travel. It is possible to say that the travel becomes obligatory by the mukallaf having certainty, like some have said. having certainty, like some have said.

The Authority of Intellect

It is self-evident that intellect itself is an authority; it does not need a proof. The reason for this is that intellect is a foundational proof for Islamic beliefs.
When Intellect is viewed as a fundamental proof for Islamic beliefs it becomes easy to reach the conclusion that it is an authority for religious rulings as well. The reason for this is that beliefs are more important than rules; they are the roots of religion.

***** This Concept may apply to your initial Question.

https://www.al-islam.org/the-basics-of-islamic-jurisprudence-hassan-al-ridai/history-ahlul-bayt-jurisprudential#4-intellect

*****

Quote

Jurisprudence Jargon

Duty (Taklif)

The Arabic term taklīf is derived from the term kulfah which means difficulty. It is used to mean the forcing of an action. For example the sentence; Zayd forces (kallafa) ‛Amr to do an action; he forces him.

Divine laws are called taklīf because they are sent from the Master, glory be to him, and it is necessary for the mukallaf to obey them.

So, taklīf means a forced action given to an adult by the Master, glory be to him. These actions encompass different aspects of man's life, for example his personal life, his worship, his family life and his social life. These laws give order to his life. Examples of these laws are: prayer being obligatory and adultery being forbidden.1

Ijtihad

From the beginning of Islam until its middle ages there was another word for fiqh, it was ijtihād.
Ijtihād is derived from the term juhd which means effort and struggle. The jurist is called a mujtahid because of his efforts and struggle in making religious rulings.

The word istinbāt has a similar meaning. It is derived from the word nabat (al-mā') which literally means taking water out of the ground. A jurist performs a similar action when he struggles to take the religious ruling from its source.2

The term ijtihād is used by the religious scholars to mean obtaining a proof for a religious ruling.3

The Necessity of Ijtihad

Islamic rulings are not mentioned for every situation. That would be impossible, because there are countless situations that happen all the time. Instead it gives general principles and rules.

Therefore, when a jurist must make a ruling for a certain situation he must look into the official sources and give his ruling. Here is where fiqh is synonymous with a deep, precise and inclusive understanding.4

Mujtahid

Definition: a mujtahid is one who has reached the level of ijtihād in understanding religious laws. This means that he has the ability to deduct religious rulings from the Qurān and traditions.

This mujtahid is able to deduct religious laws in all the subjects that the mukallaf needs or only certain subjects because of their ease. In the first case he is called a pure mujtahid and in the second a minor mujtahid.

The sciences that a mujtahid needs to know in order to be able to deduct religious rulings are:

1. Arabic grammar; syntax, morphology, vocabulary and eloquence. The reason for this is that the Qurān and traditions are in Arabic and it is impossible to understand the Qurān or the traditions without knowing Arabic.

2. Tafsīr; the mujtahid will have to refer to the Qurān so he must have a general knowledge of tafsīr.

3. Logic; because every deductive skill needs logic. Logic teaches one how to define something and how to deduce something.5

4. The science of traditions: a mujtahid must know about traditions and their categories.

5. The science of rijāl: This is the science of knowing the individual in the chains of narrations; knowing if they are trustworthy or not. The reason for this is that one cannot accept everything that is narrated unless it is narrated by trustworthy people.

6. The principles of jurisprudence: This is one of the most important sciences that the mujtahid must know because they are the rules that are applied in all of the different sections of jurisprudence.

Taqlid

Taqlīd means acting according to the verdict of a mujtahid. Taqlīd shifts the responsibility of finding the religious ruling from the person performing taqlīd to the mujtahid.

Taqlīd is one of the ways of finding a religious ruling, like ijtihād. Except that ijtihād is a direct way and taqlīd is an indirect way, because one reaches the religious ruling from the ijtihād of another.

The proof for taqlīd being permissible or obligatory is the actions of sane people. Sane people find it necessary for an ignorant person to refer to a scholar. The referral of the ignorant to the scholar is something seen in every society that man has been in. It is even seen today. An example of it is when a non-specialist refers to a specialist.6

One is dependent on taqlīd in finding out religious rulings except in the cases where one knows a religious rule. One can know a religious rule by having certainty about it which is possible without struggling and without study. Examples of these are some of the obligatory actions, many of the recommended actions and most of the permissible actions which are known by most of the people who live in religious areas. Or, one can know the religious rule because of it being self-evident like the obligation of prayer or the forbiddance of drinking wine.

Precaution

Precaution ihtiyāt means: the mukallaf performing everything that he suspects to be obligatory but does not suspect it to be forbidden or refraining from performing anything that he suspects to be forbidden but does not suspect it to be obligatory. The mukallaf must know the different instances of precaution to be able to do this. He must know every place where it is suspected to be obligatory and not suspected to be forbidden or it is suspected to be forbidden and not suspected to be obligatory. This knowledge does not come without looking at verdicts from different mujtahids.

So, precaution is another tool of finding the religious ruling. It is different than the previous two, ijtihād and taqlīd. The mujtahid reaches the religious ruling from his efforts while the person who performs taqlīd obtains the exact rule from the mujtahid. But, the person who performs precaution only gets a general understanding of the rule. The reason for this is that the religious ruling for him is something dangling between obligation, recommendation or permission.7

Precaution is a way of becoming certain that one has performed the real religious ruling. Precaution is divided into two categories:

1. Obligatory precaution: the mukallaf must act according to precaution if he wants to stay on the taqlīd of whoever he performs taqlīd to. But, in this ruling, he or she can act upon the verdict of another scholar if he wants to change the person who he performs taqlīd to. The condition that must be followed is that he must change from the most knowledgeable to the next most knowledgeable and so on.

2. Recommended precaution: the mukallaf does not have to act according to this precaution, but it is better to do so.

https://www.al-islam.org/the-basics-of-islamic-jurisprudence-hassan-al-ridai/jurisprudence-jargon#duty-taklif

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7 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You are informed that you are asking the wrong people. Most of us are layman, common, average people. 

This question is for the Jurist to answer, you can contact Najaf, Iraq and or Qom, Iran.

I am also questioning all the muqallids - did you ever ask your respective marja for proof from hadith before you started doing his taqlid?

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8 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

It has been narrated from our 12th Imam, Al-Hujjah (may Allah hasten his return) that he has stated:

قال الإمام الحجة القائم (عجل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). أما الحوادث الواقعة فارجعوا فيها

إلى رواة حديثنا فإنهم حجتي عليكم و أنا حجة الله

Imam Al-Hujjah Al-Qa`im (may Allah hasten his return) has said: “As for those events that will occur in the future, (for the answer on how to deal with them), refer to those people who narrate our sayings (Ahadith) since surely they (the ‘Ulama) are my proof over you and I am the proof of Allah.”

My advise to you is to please read these hadith carefully. The Imams (as) are time and again asking us to refer to the narrators of the hadith. There is no mention of mujtahid. The mujtahids are not narrators of hadith. They issue verdicts without providing any reference from the hadith. You have yourself quoted so many hadith in your previous posts. Did you get them from your mujtahid? Did he help you to reach directly to to the words of the masumeen (as)?

I am not against referring to an expert scholar. But my definition of a scholar is the one who guides me to the words of the masumeen (as).

For every verdict of your mujtahid for which you do not demand hadith, then know that you have followed the mujtahid and not the ahlul bayt (as). You are so close to the truth. You just need to break one last idol.

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On 10/9/2017 at 7:33 PM, IbnMariam said:

Several points, although I feel like a broken record:

Most give us the following guidelines for following islamic law: 

1. Either you are a mujtahid and capable of deducing laws from the texts, or you're not a mujtahid and not capable of doing so. In the case of not being a mujtahid, you either exercise precaution between the rulings of the mujtahideen, or you follow the most learned mujtahid who tells us what he believes (without doubt) the laws are.

2. If you do not act within these guidelines, your actions ie your prayers, fasting, wudhu, ghusl, zakat, hajj, umrah etc are all void.

3. You are to take these rulings without investigating the arguments for them. They are literally a proof upon you by virtue of being the saying of the most learned mujtahid. No need to look into the narrations of the ahlulbayt.

 

I have a few problems with the guidelines above:

1) I have yet to see justification for them in the ahadith

2) They suggest that one can fulfill their duty of obeying the imams without even reading their words. It makes no sense. If you haven't read the words of the imams, how do you know what their commands are? How does the declaration of a famous fallible man I don't even know ensure that I know I'm following my imams? 

3) If these guidelines are clearly from the ahlulbayt, then why have they only been adhered to and practised in recent history? 


Brother, what you've said is actually part of the argument against taqlid, they are not ma'soom, so how can one justify blindly following any of them? The arguments for taqlid tend to cite various verses and narrations, yet under scrutiny, these arguments tend not to justify the position of taqlid as is commonly known. For example, above, the brother cited a verse of the qur'an regarding ahl al-dhikr, but when you look at the narrations, it's reported from multiple imams across several chains that they themselves are ahl al-dhikr. There's no mention of mujtahideen or the ghayba in relation to this verse, and you can't just assume this either as the true explanation and understanding of the qur'an is with the ahlulbayt.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying we should throw the works of recent scholars down the toilet, and that they are useless charlatans. They are all well beyond my level, and it stands to reason that a student takes knowledge from a teacher. Some of you may have even seen me cite Sistani when discussing an issue without reference to the ahadith. I'm willing to consider that there is an irrefutable argument that I am not aware of for taqlid and it's conditions, but I've yet to see it. The arguments I have seen time and again are full of holes, and those holes never get plugged. 

Salams,

This topic comes up so often, its a real shame that shiachat doesnt keep a small library of commonly discussed topics with the best answers.

As for the points you raised, there are ahadith, quran and historical evidence for taqleed. We have examples of the Imams telling the people to consult certain trained scholars and how they love to see them giving fatwa. The whole 4 deputy, and ghaiba sughar process is also a strong case for the evolution of taqleed. Your claim about taqleed being a recent thing is simply false. Sure its evolved, but the principle dates back to the lives of the Imams AS.

Logically, the case is undeniable. At what point would you take a lesser informed opinion over a more informed opinion? The answer is never. You seem to think that taqleed is about reaching certainty, this is not the case. Its about doing the best we can. 

 

Some useful reading

https://www.medinaminds.com/taqleed-authority-blind-following/

https://www.medinaminds.com/taqleed-in-fiqh-in-islam/

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36 minutes ago, iraqi_shia said:

Salams,

This topic comes up so often, its a real shame that shiachat doesnt keep a small library of commonly discussed topics with the best answers.

As for the points you raised, there are ahadith, quran and historical evidence for taqleed(1).We have examples of the Imams telling the people to consult certain trained scholars and how they love to see them giving fatwa(2). The whole 4 deputy, and ghaiba sughar process is also a strong case for the evolution of taqleed(3). Your claim about taqleed being a recent thing is simply false. Sure its evolved, but the principle dates back to the lives of the Imams AS.(4)

Logically, the case is undeniable. At what point would you take a lesser informed opinion over a more informed opinion? The answer is never. You seem to think that taqleed is about reaching certainty, this is not the case. Its about doing the best we can. (5)

 

Some useful reading

https://www.medinaminds.com/taqleed-authority-blind-following/

https://www.medinaminds.com/taqleed-in-fiqh-in-islam/

What's really frustrating is that you're the umpteenth person in this thread who has posted like this.

 

(1)Please construct a proper argument through specified ahadith and verses.

(2) Please substantiate this statement, give me the examples, source them etc Show how they prove the principles of taqlid

(3) Please elaborate...

(4) please show me where the early ulama spoke of taqlid as we know it today. I will genuinely appreciate it very much if you can show that they believed in the same ruleset

(5) strawman, and if you're not certain that taqlid is the correct way to fulfill your obligation of obedience to the imam, then you don't actually believe in it, you've just accepted it on a whim

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15 hours ago, shuaybi said:

There is no mention of mujtahid. The mujtahids are not narrators of hadith. They issue verdicts without providing any reference from the hadith. You have yourself quoted so many hadith in your previous posts. Did you get them from your mujtahid? Did he help you to reach directly to to the words of the masumeen (as)?

:) Mujtahid are not narrators of hadith!

They do narrate the ahadith of Masoomeen (a.s), I have listened many ahadith from them.

Have you studied the prerequisites for narrator of hadith? It is mentioned in the hadith quoted above.

 

23 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

So then however, as for the Fuqaha who protect their own soul, who safeguard their religion, who go against the desires and passions of their lower desires and who are obedient to the command of their Mawla, then it is permissible for the common people to perform Taqleed (follow them in religious issues) and this state is not found except in some of the Fuqaha of the Shi’a – not all of them.

 

23 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

فأما من كان من الفقهاء صائنا لنفسه حافظاً لدينه مخالفاً على هواه مطيعا لأمر مولاه فللعوام أن يقلدوه

Here are few definitions for you:
 

[ﻗﺘﻮﻯ] – Fatawa: This word has many meanings but is commonly used in the meanings of: making something clear, explaining something and giving the answer to something. Its use can be seen in the following chapters of the Qur`an: Surah Al-Nisa (4) – Verse 176, Surah Yusuf (12) – Verse 46, Surah Al-Naml (27) – Verse 32, Surah Al-Kahf (18) – Verse 22.

[ﻓﻘﻪ] – Fiqh: This word literally means to have a deep understanding through thought and contemplation and this is how it is used in the Quran and the Ahadith.

[ﻓﻘﻴﻪ] – Faqih: The person who possesses a deep understanding of Islam and is able to extract the laws of Islam from their sources is referred to with this title.

[ﺇﺟﺘﻬﺎﺩ] – Ijtihad: The process by which a scholar extracts the laws of Islam from their four primary sources: the Quran, Sunnah, Ijma and Aql.

[مقلِد] – Muqallid: The person who is performing Taqleed or following the Scholar.

[مقلَد] – Muqallad: The person who we are following (the Marja).

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هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.

*****

 

6. The Concept of "al-Qur'an an-Natiq"

"Al-Qur'an an-natiq" means the "speaking Qur'an." This is a famous title given to the Shí'a Imams to describe their proximity to the Qur'an; they are the custodians of the Qur'anic message and its interpretation; they are the embodiment of the Qur'anic values and its ideals. This concept is based on the various sayings of the Prophet in which the Qur'an and the Ahlul Bayt are shown to never separate from one another.

The famous hadíth of thaqalayn says:

"I am leaving two precious things behind among you: the Book of Allah and my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall not separate from one another until they come to me at the fountain of Kawthar (on the Day of Resurrection)."13

In another hadíth, Umm Salama, the wife of the Prophet, quotes him as follows:

"'Ali is with the Qur'an and the Qur'an is with 'Ali; they shall never separate from one another until they reach to me at the Fountain (on the day of Resurrection)."14

Abu Sa'íd al-Khudari reports that one day we were sitting waiting for the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) to come out. He came to us while we saw that the strap of his shoe was broken; he gave it to 'Ali to repair. Then he said,

"One of you will wage war for the interpretation (ta'wíl) of the Qur'an just as I waged war for its revelation (tanzíl)."

Abu Bakr said, "Am I the one?" The Prophet said, "No." Then 'Umar said, "Am I the one?" The Prophet said, "No, but the one who is repairing the shoe."15

Imam 'Ali himself said, "Ask me before you lose me, for by the One who split the grain and created the soul, if you ask me as to which verse was revealed at night time or at day time, whether it is of Meccan or Medinite [era], during journey (of the Prophet) or while in Medina, whether it is abrogator or abrogated, whether it is clear or allegorical, and whether you need its interpretation or context of its revelation-I shall inform you about it."16

https://www.al-islam.org/shiism-imamate-and-wilayat-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/knowledge-ahlul-bayt

*****

Surah 3: Verse 7 Also applies to the sayings of Al-Qur'an an-natiq" means the "speaking Qur'an. 

Non Shia can read an understand  Sahih Bukhari or Sahih Muslim on their own and drive conclusions.

The Layman Shia of Imam Ali(as) do  need  the Most Learned followers of the ones firmly rooted in knowledge to explain the true meaning and application of the Saying of the Speaking Qur'an.

*****

People who have an issue with Shia of Imam Ali(as), who do not for any reason have the necessary knowledge, seek the Knowledge on practical Laws form the Most Learned in their field. 

1)Should provide a  Clear and decisive prohibition of this type of seeking knowledge from the Logical/Rational/Intellectual perspective and  Qur'an & Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad ( peace be upon him and his pure progeny) and his Ahlul Bayth(as). 

2)And offer a Logical/Rational/intellectual alternative. Back it up with  Qur'an and Hadith.

 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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11 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Mujtahid are not narrators of hadith

A mujtahid by definition cannot at the same time be a muhaddith (narrator of hadith). Ijtihad was invented to address situations when there are no references available in hadith and quran. If the end result of ijtihad is to reach the correct hadith - then there is no need for a fatwa (personal verdict).

11 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

They do narrate the ahadith of Masoomeen (a.s), I have listened many ahadith from them.

Please ask them to provide you the hadith that they use to prove Taqlid, and forward me their official response.

11 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Have you studied the prerequisites for narrator of hadith? It is mentioned in the hadith quoted above.

So then however, as for the Fuqaha who protect their own soul, who safeguard their religion, who go against the desires and passions of their lower desires and who are obedient to the command of their Mawla, then it is permissible for the common people to perform Taqleed (follow them in religious issues) and this state is not found except in some of the Fuqaha of the Shi’a – not all of them.

Why did Imam (as) not add the prerequisite of ijtihad as one of the conditions?

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On 10/11/2017 at 6:39 PM, iraqi_shia said:

This topic comes up so often, its a real shame that shiachat doesnt keep a small library of commonly discussed topics with the best answers.

It is a shame how this absurd concept of taqlid of a non-masum is being shoved down people's throats who are finding it difficult to swallow and digest it. The bigger the lie the more effort expended by the "fake scholars" to cover and obscure the truth. Just look at christianity and how they managed to impose trinity on the poor masses.

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1 hour ago, shuaybi said:

Why did Imam (as) not add the prerequisite of ijtihad as one of the conditions?

It is mentioned in different ahadith. 

Al‑'Imam Al‑Baqir (A) is reported to have said to a group of Shi’is:

والله اني لاحب ريحكم وارواحكم فاعينوا على ذلك بورع واجتهاد واعلموا أنّ ولايتنا لا تنال إلاّ بالورع والاجتهاد.

By God, I love your fragrance and (the purity of) your souls. So strengthen them by means of piety and endeavor (ijtihad). You should know that you will not approach our wilayah except by deeds and through endeavor. 

Al‑'Imam Al‑Sadiq (A) is reported to have said to Said ibn Hilal al‑Thaqafi:

اوصيك بتقوى الله والورع والاجتهاد

I advise you to fear God, to be pious, and to be diligent (in fulfilling your duties)

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13 hours ago, shuaybi said:

 when there are no references available in hadith and quran. If the end result of ijtihad is to reach the correct hadith - then there is no need for a fatwa (personal verdict).

"Now, the kind of ijtihad which, in our opinion, is forbidden is that which means “legislating” or “enacting the law”, by which we mean that the mujtahid passes a judgment which is not in the Book (the Qur'an) or the Sunna, according to his own thought and his own opinion - this is technically called ijtihad al­ra'y. According to Shi`i Islam, this kind of ijtihad is forbidden.."

https://www.al-islam.org/al-serat/vol-10-no-1/principle-ijtihad-islam-ayatullah-murtadha-mutahhari/principle-ijtihad-islam#kind-ijtihad-which-forbidden-sharia

 

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13 hours ago, shuaybi said:

 

 

Quote

As far as newly occurring circumstances are concerned, you should refer to the narrators of our hadith, for they are my proof over you and I (asws) am Allah (azwj)’s Proof. [Letter of Imam-e-Zamana (ajtf) to his representative, quoted by al-Tabarsi, in his book Al-Ihtijaj al-Tabarsi, Vol. 2, pg. 469]

In a related Thread on Fiqh/Taqlid. You posted the above Hadith.

Can you explain you understanding of the Hadith? Especially the part about "They are my proof over you"

 

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:23 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

In a related Thread on Fiqh/Taqlid. You posted the above Hadith.

Can you explain you understanding of the Hadith? Especially the part about "They are my proof over you"

The hadith of the masumeen (as) are the proof/hujjat. Not the personal opinions of the jurists. The hadith is transmitted to us by the "narrators of the hadith" (fuqaha) who are mentioned in the first part. Or put another way, the words of the masumeen (as) are the hujjat and should be followed.

Can you also present your understanding of the above hadith?

Edited by shuaybi

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On 10/13/2017 at 9:06 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

"Now, the kind of ijtihad which, in our opinion, is forbidden is that which means “legislating” or “enacting the law”, by which we mean that the mujtahid passes a judgment which is not in the Book (the Qur'an) or the Sunna, according to his own thought and his own opinion - this is technically called ijtihad al­ra'y. According to Shi`i Islam, this kind of ijtihad is forbidden.."

Anything that is not in the hadith and Quran is the personal opinion of the mujtahid. It is a product of his fallible mind. Where else did it come from?

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On 10/12/2017 at 9:16 PM, Salsabeel said:

It is mentioned in different ahadith. 

Al‑'Imam Al‑Baqir (A) is reported to have said to a group of Shi’is:

والله اني لاحب ريحكم وارواحكم فاعينوا على ذلك بورع واجتهاد واعلموا أنّ ولايتنا لا تنال إلاّ بالورع والاجتهاد.

By God, I love your fragrance and (the purity of) your souls. So strengthen them by means of piety and endeavor (ijtihad). You should know that you will not approach our wilayah except by deeds and through endeavor. 

Al‑'Imam Al‑Sadiq (A) is reported to have said to Said ibn Hilal al‑Thaqafi:

اوصيك بتقوى الله والورع والاجتهاد

I advise you to fear God, to be pious, and to be diligent (in fulfilling your duties)

Since I asked you a question on the hadith you quoted earlier and you could not answer my question you moved on to a different hadith. You are jumping from one hadith to another desperately trying to prove your point. 

The above hadith are being addressed to every shia believer. Are you saying that in these two hadith by the word  ijtihad the imam (as) means to derive new laws for situations not to be found in quran and hadith? In that case each and every shia believer should become a mujtahid.

Also let me ask you, why are you quoting hadith? As a muqallid it should be illegal for you to quote hadith unless you got it from your marja. After all according to you only he has the discrimination between good and bad hadith. Did you get all these hadith from your marja? Please answer this question and all others that you have conveniently ignored.

Edited by shuaybi

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    • hi the allowing for human cloning is permitted for curing & wellness not for beauty Site code fa599 Archive code 549 Genetic modification profile and Soul problem Thematic classification of rights and judgments Genetic modification Genetic modification share                   Summarize the question What is the genetic and neonatal birth order of this method? question What is the genetic modification of Islam? How does a person come up with this method and how do you solve the problem of the soul? Concise answer The genetic modification in NIC has a type that is normal in nature, which is different from the rule, but in general, if the correction is based on the embryo or sperm and oocyte of the couple, to prevent the occurrence of hereditary and genetic diseases And the birth of the baby is paralyzed and ill and also causes the physical or mental perfection of the infant and does not require any other haram action, according to the Shari'a do not have such an obstacle. And the child born in this way, because of the husband's sperm and ovum, has no problem.   But in relation to the problem of the soul, it should be said that if this correction is before the breath of the soul, there is no problem, and if, after blowing the soul into the body (four months), it is still not difficult, because the soul and soul that after During the stages of growth, the body is given to the body, it is related to that body, and with it's life, and the person's identity depends on the personality of the same soul, and the Takvina spirit and the body of that body and body are intrinsic to that soul.   Detailed Answer The advancement of science and technology in recent decades has provided significant services to human health, health and improvement of human life. Among these advances in the field of medicine, scientists have been able to invent some methods to prevent inherited and genetic diseases so that they can modify the embryo or sperm and ovum in the early stages of growth. And prevent the birth of sick and paralyzed and defective babies.   Obviously, as the wisdom and consequently sharia judge, the patient should go to the doctor for treatment, and if he is diagnosed by a doctor, he should do this. By saying this, if there is such a possibility that in the early stages of the dismemberment of the sprout and before the birth of the infant or the patient can be prevented, there should be no problem.   Genetic modification in the medical sciences has different types, which is natural in terms of its kind, which is different from the jurisprudential point of view. But what is said in answer to the question is that in general, if the modification is carried out on the fetus or sperm and the egg of the husband and wife, and without combining it with sperm of a man or an ovum of another woman, and that leads to health and physical perfection Or spiritual, and does not require another forbidden act, this correction is permissible. But if it is possible that the corrective action would not be useful and that the defect may be caused by the fetus, the permit is the place of the problem.   Since the birth of a newborn born in this way has not been violated, this infant belongs to the husband and wife of the Shari'a.   But if genetic modification is carried out by combining sperm with a man or an ovum of another woman, who is joining the believer of this work and the child who is born of this process? There are different views among the jurists.   Below, we will draw your attention to the following issues:   1. What is the pregnancy sentence for a woman with a sperm of her husband? Is the child born in this way the decree of a true child?   All the great authorities: The principle of this task is unimportant; provided that it is avoided of the forbidden pretext (such as the look and the touch of a non-lawyer) and the child is born, all the rules of the child of that husband and wife are. [1]   2-   What is the decree of introducing sperm to a woman's womb if her husband is not supportive?Who is the child who is born?   All the great authorities (except the Grand Ayatullah Khamenei): This is forbidden, and if a son is born, it belongs to the owner of the spit and to the woman who owns the womb. [2]   Grand Ayatollah Khamenei: The principle of this task is unimportant; provided that it is avoided of the forbidden pretext (such as the look and the touch of the nonhuman), and if a son is born, it belongs to the owner of the spit and to the woman who owns the womb. ]   Concerning the soul issue, here it should be said that if this action was carried out in the very early days, it does not have an embryo at all. And if it is after that, the spirit that is not removed from the body and no other spirit has come to its place. In any case, the soul and soul, which is given after a process of growth to the body, is related to that body and with its lifetime, and the diagnosis of that body depends on the personality of the same soul, also It is the spirit of Tekvivna and the temporarily possessed by that body, and that body is the mumble of that spirit.   The result is that if it is a genetic modification without committing unlawful acts and thus preventing the birth of defective babies, it is not only permissible, but also desirable, because of the birth of sick and sick babies who are nursing and nursing and raising children It has many problems for parents and family, prevention and safe delivery of children to the community.   The response of the Office of the Grand Ayatullah, Fazel Lankarani (Al-Ajali), to the question:   Genetic modification, if it is limited to treating drugs and the like, does not involve the inoculation of the male vagina, and there are no conflicts with the spirit issue.   The Office of the Grand Ayatullah Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi (Azhali):   Correction is by no means a problem, but simulation is not allowed. And there is no problem in the spirit of genetic modification.     [1] Khamenei, Ayubawat al-Sathatat, S 1271 and 1277; Imam, Tahrir al-Waslah, C 2, Allaqih, M 1; Tabrizi; Sūrat al-Najajah, vol. 5, p. 1013; Fazil, Jameem al-Masaleh, vol. 1, 2103, 2104; Vahid, The explanation of al-Masaleel, 2900; Sistani, the explanation of Al-Masaleh, the artificial insemination, M 69; Safi, Jamea Alahakam, J 2, S 1392; Opri, J 2, S 1392; Optical, Esfahat, C 2, S 903 and C 1, 985 ; PICKTHAL: Sufatiat, 2nd Dec., 1757, and Office: Behjat. [2] Imam, Tahrir al-Waslah, C 2, Al-Jalah, M 2 and 3; Tabrizi, Esfahat, S 2094: Fadhil, Juma al-Masaleel, J 1, S 2105, and Wahid, explaining al-Masaleel, M 2898; Sistani, explaining al-mussel, artificial insemination 65; Safi, Jamaalahakam, J 2, S 1391; Optical, Sufatiat, C 2, S 908; Mt. Sufatiat, vol. 1, p. 1527; and Behjat, Medical Essay, p. 35. [3] See: Abuba elastatat, p. 304, 1275, 1277 and 1271; Student's dissertation, Hosseini, Sayed Mojtaba, Pages 292-293, S 475,476 and 477. persian source translate by google translate:http://www.islamquest.net/fa/archive/question/fa599
    • hi the Imams do miracle for everybody the Iranian have the honor that Imam Reza(as) & his Sister Lady Fatima Masoumeh (as) buried in Iran but other countries like Iraq & Syria have this honor but unfortunately the Wahabist of Saudi arabia insulting the holy Imams (as) & Lday Khadija(as) & Abbas(as) the uncle of prophet(pbu) & Abdulmotalib(as) by destroying the Baqi Shrine. 
    • To prove Ayatollah Khamenei's vision is wrong we should know how Natives treated settlers upon their arrival.  Is it not documented that there were fair exchanges in the beginning? Then how did that turn into human hunt afterwards ? And even if reciprocal animosity did take place, how do you ignore the feeling of the person holding a gun against one who does not. It is almost impossible that mass killing took place without some form of self contentment. And I am not just trying to justify Sayid's word. Go see any civil war when two former neighbors fight, it is often with this feeling of destructive pleasure.
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