Jump to content
alidu78

Flood and prophet nuh as

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, alidu78 said:

Salam aleykoum, 

According to Islamic tradition the flood had been regional or worldwild ? 

When did  the prophet nuh as live approximately? 

We sent Nuh to his people and he remained among them for fifty short of a thousand years; yet the Flood engulfed them while they were wrongdoers. (Qur'an, 29:14)

The Prophet Nuh (as) was sent to his people by Allah. They had distanced themselves from the commandments of the Lord and ascribed partners to Him. The Prophet Nuh (as) warned them that they should serve Allah alone and abandon the false worship which they had established in their community. Although the Prophet Nuh (as) called on his people with great eloquence and wisdom, and warned them against the punishment of Allah, they rejected the Prophet and continued to associate partners to Him. At this, Allah told the Prophet Nuh (as) that He would punish the deniers by drowning them. But He also informed His Messenger that His mercy would save the believers, those who embraced true religion and worshipped the One and Only God. The destruction of the people of Nuh and the salvation of the believers is described thus in the Qur'an:

But they denied him so We rescued him and those with him in the Ark. And We drowned the people who denied Our Signs. They were a blind people. (Qur'an, 7:64)

When the time of punishment came, the water in the ground combined with violent rains to cause a giant flood. (Allah knows best.) It is revealed that before the flood came, Allah spoke to the Prophet Nuh (as):

We revealed to him: "Build the Ship under Our supervision and as We reveal. When Our command comes and water bubbles up from the earth, load into it a pair of every species, and your family-except for those among them against whom the word has already gone ahead. And do not address Me concerning those who do wrong. They shall be drowned." (Qur'an, 23:27)

Apart from those who boarded Prophet Nuh's (as) Ark, the entire tribe was drowned. The dead included the Prophet's son who thought he could escape by seeking shelter on a mountain.

It was said, "Earth, swallow up your water!" and, "Heaven, hold back your rain!" And the water subsided and the affair was concluded and the Ark came to land on al-Judi. And it was said, "Away with the people of the wrongdoers!" (Qur'an, 11:44)

Compared to the flood accounts contained in Jewish scriptures, and indeed the various cultural beliefs of other peoples, the Qur'anic account, which was revealed by Allah and is the only divine text to have remained uncorrupted, stands as the most reliable of all these accounts. The Torah, a corrupted text, says that this flood was universal and covered the whole world. On the contrary, it appears from the relevant verses that the flood was a regional one and punished not the whole world but only the tribe that rejected the Prophet Nuh (as). Those who were destroyed in it were the people who rejected the message of the Prophet Nuh (as) and persisted in their denial. There is no indication in the Qur'an that the flood was universal. The verses on the subject read:

We sent Nuh to his people: "I am a clear warner to you. Worship none but Allah. I fear for you the punishment of a painful day." (Qur'an, 11:25-26)

But they denied him so We rescued him and those with him in the Ark. And We drowned the people who denied Our Signs. They were a blind people. (Qur'an, 7:64)

So We rescued him and those with him by mercy from Us, and We cut off the last remnant of those who denied Our Signs and were not believers. (Qur'an, 7:72)

As we have seen, we are told in the Qur'an that only the people of the Prophet Nuh (as) were destroyed, not the whole world. The corrected states of the corrupted accounts in Christian and Jewish scriptures in the Qur'an prove that it is, in its entirety, a book sent down by Allah.

Excavations in the region where the flood is believed to have occurred also show that the flood was not a universal event, but a wide-scale disaster that affected part of Mesopotamia.

When the waters subsided, the Ark came to rest. As revealed in the Qur'an, the resting place of the ark was al-Judi. The word "judi" is sometimes taken to mean a particular mountain, although the Arabic word itself means "high place, hill." From that point of view, the word "judi" can refer to the waters reaching only up to a certain height and not to the covering of all the land. In other words, we learn from the Qur'an that the flood did not swallow up all the land and all the mountains on Earth-as is related in Jewish scriptures and other legends-but only one particular region.

 

Read all of it here: http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/historical_06.html

Edited by M.IB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you dear member however I also ask in an other forum and they said that we have hadith talking about a worldwide flood finally and not a regional flood. However could we know when prophet nuh as lived exactly? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam @alidu78, Prophet Nuh pbuh and his nation lived where The Gulf is present today, which was a valley with flowing rivers. Experts say that The Gulf is geologically very young, having been formed around 15,000 years ago. There are animals like the marsupials for example which are unique for Australia and which were not on Nuh's pbuh ark and also fossas of Madagascar which are not found anywhere else in the world, so these animals from isolated areas couldn't reach Nuh and after being saved from the Ark to return to Australia and Madagascar as there is no recorded traces. Also all water in world is not enough to cover all land present. So it was not a worldwide flood, it was a flood which happened in the land where The Gulf is today, as sea levels rose at the end of last Ice age, water rushed in throught the Strait of Hormuz and filled the valley with water. Al-Judi can't be anywhere different than South Iraq, where Nuh pbuh and his ark landed and where he and his descendants started the Sumerian civilization which was a leap in human history as it was through the divine knowledge of the messengers sent by Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Iskandar91 Brother I would say it happened somewhere at southern Mesopotamia since archaeologists say:

 

The archaeological discoveries which came from study of Ur unearthed information which clearly informs us that a civilisation there was interrupted by a terrible flood and that new civilisations gradually sprang up in its place. Leonard Woolley led a joint excavation by the British Museum and the University of Pennsylvania in the desert area between Baghdad and the Persian Gulf. Woolley's excavations are described by the German archaeologist Werner Keller as follows:

"The graves of the kings of Ur" - so Woolley, in the exuberance of his delight at discovering them, had dubbed the tombs of Sumerian nobles whose truly regal splendour had been exposed when the spades of the archaeologists attacked a fifty-foot mound south of the temple and found a long row of superimposed graves. The stone vaults were veritable treasure chests, for they were filled with all the costly goblets, wonderfully shaped jugs and vases, bronze tableware, mother of pearl mosaics, lapis lazuli, and silver surrounded these bodies which had mouldered into dust. Harps and lyres rested against the walls…

When after several days some of Woolley's workmen called out to him, "We are on ground level", he let himself down onto the floor of the shaft to satisfy himself. Woolley's first thought was "This is it at last". It was sand, pure sand of a kind that could only have been deposited by water.

They decided to dig on and make the shaft deeper. Deeper and deeper went the spades into the ground: three feet, six feet - still pure mud. Suddenly, at ten feet, the layer of mud stopped as abruptly as it had started. Under this clay deposit of almost ten feet thick, they had struck fresh evidence of human habitation…

The Flood - that was the only possible explanation of this great clay deposit beneath the hill at Ur, which quite clearly separated two epochs of settlement…217

 

Microscopic analysis revealed that this great clay deposit beneath the hill at Ur had accumulated here as a result of a flood, one so large and powerful as to annihilate ancient Sumerian civilisation. The epic of Gilgamesh and the story of Nuh were united in this shaft dug deep under the Mesopotamian desert.

Max Mallowan related the thoughts of Leonard Woolley, who said that such a huge mass of alluvium formed in a single time-slice could only be the result of a huge flood disaster. Woolley also described the flood layer, which separated the Sumerian city of Ur from the city of Al-Ubaid whose inhabitants used painted pottery, as the remains of the Flood.218

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Logically the flood had to be local flood. The amount of water on this earth is always the same. If at one side of the earth the water level is raised than it will reduce the level on the other end. 

In 2004 tsunami there was a sudden drop on the surface of ocean bed level and the ocean water also dropped in a sudden to balance it. In that time there was a report of sea water rushing away from the beaches - but than it returned to level it again in the form of tsunami. 

Raise at one end will always lower at the other. That is the law of physic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam brother @M.IB, it happened in where is present day Gulf (this is where Noah and his nation lived), it covered areas of Southern Iraq and the water receded toward the valley or the modern Gulf again. It is explained in the book I am reading, I will post some from it inshaAllah.

(...The story of the flood in the Epic of Gilgamesh is no different than the previously mentioned Sumerian text. Here, as well,  the flood is caused by divine wrath, while an ark is built to save Utnapishtim (Noah) and the believers. However, there are other important aspects to this text:
There are clear indicators of the region in which Noah lived. It is a region close to the water or, more specifically, a reigon of reeds, as Utnapishtim's  house is clearly built from reeds. In fact, in a clear text that will be mentioned later, Noah's ark was built from reeds.

"O fence of reed! O wall of brick! Hear this, O fence!  Pay heed, O wall!
"Demolish the house, and build a boat!"

In addition, the Epic of Gilgamesh mentions that the flood was caused by the collapse of a dam or dams:

 "Ninutra passing by, made the weirs [dams] overflow..."

Moreover, the Epic of Gilgamesh mentions that the direction of the flood, or that of the flood's waves, wind and gusts, was from the south to the north. It also mentions that water covered the mountains, meaning that the region was surrounded by areas of elevation such that the water could cover these mountains.
 "All day long the South Wind blew..., blowing fast, submerging the mountain in water" (Kovacs 1989, 100)

If we want to now combine the above characteristics of the flood into one region that is in or around Iraq, the only region we would find is the fertile valley before water covered it, turning it into present day Gulf. Certainly, this is taking into consideration the fact that the region is low and contains elevated regions such as mountains. These regions represent its surroundings and islands, some of which are protruding from the gulf today, such as Bahrain.
  Since the region before the flood was a valley filled with sweet water lakes, and the sweet water coming from the north used to pour into it, it is natural for it to have reeds. It is also natural for both the house of Noah and for his ark to be made from reeds, as it is clearly mentioned in the text that will follow.   (Here author shows text from Epic of Gilgamesh showing that they were made from reeds)

Before being covered by water, the environment of the fertile valley (present day Gulf) was suitable for the growth of different types of reed and trees, as the fertile valley was a large region with rivers and lakes.  

"Build a large ark, yet built it enteirely from reeds, And make the ark a safe heaven in the name of preserving life."

Furthermore, the region where the flood occurred is Mesopotamia and its surroundings. It was entirely covered with vast amounts of water, such that no one survived except those who were abroad the ark with Noah. The ark was flowing, moving with the sea.
In addition, from the texts, we find the ark was made from reeds, as well as that it was made over a short period of time, perhaps days, Further, it was large in size, at least in relation to the time period in which it was made. The region had contained and was surrounded by areas of elevation. The flood itself was caused by the collapse of a dam, with the water coming from south to the north.
If we want to combine all the above with the scientific and historical data, the region of the flood can be narrowed down to the present day Gulf, before water covered it when the last ice age ended, the snow melted and the sea level rose.

The Quranic story specifies an important issue that was mentioned previously, namely that the flood occurred in a region with mountains: (He said, "I will take refuge on a mountain to protect me from the water." [Noah] said, There is no protector today from the matter of God, except for whom He gives mercy." And the waves came between them, and he was among the drowned.)  This raises an important question:
How did the flood occur in the region of Southern Iraq, as confirmed through its historical mention by the Sumerians and Babylonians, given that that region is an alluvial plain? Where did the mountains in this flat region come from?!
Therefore, we must search for a region with mountains that is contiguous with the valley of the two rivers or, actually, that represents its extension. The only suitable place with this combination of characteristics is the fertile valley we mentioned earlier, before it was covered by water and became present day Gulf. It is correct to consider this region southwards of Iraq.
  In addition, another issue in the Quranic story is that it describes its waves to be like mountains. (And it sailed with them through waves like mountains) This description does not seem suitable for a flood that occurs due to rain, because a flood like this one, in an open plain region, will not create waves like mountains. However, the Quranic statement is suitable for a flood that occurs as a result of a massive tsunami, or the collapse of a natural dam separating a depression from an ocean with tremendous amounts of water that can fill the depression with great speed, causing the creation of a major hydraulic jump and, consequently, creating waves like mountains. This is perfectly suitable for the collapse of the dam of the present day Strait of Hormuz and the filling of the valley with water, forming the modern Gulf. )

continues in next post inshaAllah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@M.IB

(It is possible that the flood occurred in South of Iraq due to rain and torrents. This hypothesis concurs completely with the position of the region. The region falls between two rivers, below mountainous regions to its North. Nevertheless, a flood such as this remains limited, as it is difficult to imagine the floods of rivers or rain causing the eradication of all life forms in a particular region. There is a chance that some of them would have escaped, at least the ones that live on its edges. Such floods occur gradually rather than in one fell swoop, such as in the case of a breaking dam or a tsunami. In addition, the Quranic text's description that they are waves like mountains does not apply.
 
It is also possible that the flood occurred in the valley located in Southern Iraq, which represents the modern Gulf before it was filled with water. This would have been the result of the rise in seawater level at the end of the last ice age and the collapse of the natural dam of the Strait of Hormuz. If we want to apply the Quranic text to flood that occurred in this valley a few thousand years ago, we find it to concur completely.
 
The amount of water that would have entered the valley from the sea due to the collapse of the natural dam of the Strait of Hormuz would be extremely vast. We can say that it formed waves like mountains as the Quran mentions. In addition, the present-day islands in the modern Gulf are nothing but the peaks of mountains that stood tall in this fertile valley before the collapse of the dam and the valley being filled with salt water. Therefore, the religious text that says that Noah's son wanted to take refuge on a mountain to protect himself from the water is corroborated, because he believed that it was an ordinary floods that was approaching, resulting from a rise in the level of the rivers that poured into the valley, such as the Tigris and the Euphrates. The damage from such floods could be avoided by taking refuge in highlands, such as the mountains of the fertile valley.
However, it did not cross their minds that it was different this time, and that the flood Noah-Utnapishtim-Ziusudra warned them about would be devastating, covering the mountains and filling the valley, whose area is equal to that of a country such as Iraq.
 
...The flood of Noah occurred nearly four thousand years before Christ, according to Biblical date. This view has even been adopted by interpreters of the Quran. The fertile valley was filled with salt water at the time, and the modern Gulf had already formed. This would mean that the location of the flood is Mesopotamia. Since the region was flat, the amount of water that could form a flood the size of the flood of Noah must have come from a large reservoir of water. This is why the Torah portrayed it as a flood that encompassed the entire planet Earth at a tremendous height. It has been explained that this hypothesis mentioned in present-day Torah conflicts with scientific, historica and geological facts.
The other remaining possibility is that Noah and his people, whom we can call the ancestors of the Sumerians or the early Sumerians, used to live in the fertile valley, and that the flood occurred in the fertile valley (the modern Gulf). If this was the case, what determines the time of the flood would be the date when the valley was filled with water and the hydraulic jump of salt water occurred that perhaps swept vast areas of modern Southern Iraq. The valley was completely filled with water sometime between 15,000-8,000 B.C.
Thus, what happened was the flooding of the valley, caused by the large amounts of water, which was made available by the melting of ice at the end of the ice age. This formed water springs pouring into the seas that, together with the water springs that also used to pour into the sea, led to a rise in seawater level until the natural dam collapsed and seawater entered the valley. It was possibly accompanied by rainwater and a rise of the river levels that used to pour into the valley from the other side. Therefore, the waters met in the valley and the flood and the hydraulic jump of water occurred until they covered regions of Southern Iraq. Subsequently, the water receded toward the valley or the modern Gulf again, and the ark anchored in order for the first journey of mankind to begin, which we learned about as it was recorded and written in Southern Iraq. (Then we opened the doors of Heaven with rain pouring down * and caused the earth to burst with springs, and the waters met for a matter already ordained.) Quran Chapter The Moon, 54:11-12 ) )

Also scientists have said some years ago that "lost civilization may have existed under the Gulf" - https://www.livescience.com/10340-lost-civilization-existed-beneath-persian-gulf.html
Edited by Hameedeh
Please use the term salt water or [Edited Out] will edit your post for using a word on the inappropriate word list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Iskandar91 said:

it happened in where is present day Gulf (this is where Noah and his nation lived), it covered areas of Southern Iraq and the water receded toward the valley or the modern Gulf again. It is explained in the book I am reading, I will post some from it inshaAllah.

 

18 hours ago, Iskandar91 said:

(It is possible that the flood occurred in South of Iraq due to rain and torrents. This hypothesis concurs completely with the position of the region.

Though, if we take this as the true location, there is 1 problem, the Qur'an says  "...the ark came to rest on Al-Judi. [Holy Qur'an 11:44]. Although! some interpreters refer to "Al-Judi" as a high place on a mountain.. your thoughts brothers? 

Wasslam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2017 at 11:42 AM, M.IB said:

Though, if we take this as the true location, there is 1 problem, the Qur'an says  "...the ark came to rest on Al-Judi. [Holy Qur'an 11:44]. Although! some interpreters refer to "Al-Judi" as a high place on a mountain.. your thoughts brothers? 

Wasslam.

salam alaykom brother.

South Iraq was an elevated place for Noah pbuh and his people living in the low fertile valley before it was flooded with water. 

Author of the book writes:

(If we want to now combine the above characteristics of the flood into one region that is in or around Iraq, the only region we would find is the fertile valley before water covered it, turning it into present day Gulf. Certainly, this is taking into consideration the fact that the region is low and contains elevated regions such as mountains. These regions represent its surroundings and islands, some of which are protruding from the gulf today, such as Bahrain...)

(The amount of water that would have entered the valley from the sea due to the collapse of the natural dam of the Strait of Hormuz would be extremely vast. We can say that it formed waves like mountains as the Quran mentions. In addition, the present-day islands in the modern Gulf are nothing but the peaks of mountains that stood tall in this fertile valley before the collapse of the dam and the valley being filled with salt water. Therefore, the religious text that says that Noah's son wanted to take refuge on a mountain to protect himself from the water is corroborated, because he believed that it was an ordinary floods that was approaching, resulting from a rise in the level of the rivers that poured into the valley, such as the Tigris and the Euphrates...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • 3.142. Muhammad b. Abdallah b. al-Hasan b. al-Hasan al-Mujtaba al-Nafs al-Zakiyya https://sites.google.com/site/mujamalahadith/vol1/book-of-narrators/muhammad-b-abdallah-b-al-hasan-b-al-hasan-al-mujtaba-al-nafs-al-zakiyya   [-/1] بـصـائـر الـدرجـات: عبدالله بن جعفر ، عن محمد بن عيسى ، عن صفوان ، عن العيص ، عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: ما من بني ولا وصي ولا ملك إلا في كتاب عندي ، لا والله ما لمحمد بن عبدالله بن الحسن فيه اسم [1/-] Basair al-Darajat: Abdallah b. Ja’far from Muhammad b. Isa from Safwan from al-Iys [b. al-Qasim] from Abi Abdillah عليه السلام who said: there is not a prophet or a successor or a king except that he is found in a book which is with me. No by Allah! the name of Muhammad b. Abdallah b. al-Hasan is not there. NOTES: This is one of the great signs of the Imama of al-Sadiq for he prophesied that the revolt of Muhammad b. Abdallah b. al-Hasan [a descendant of Imam al-Hasan] would end in failure and that this pretender who claimed to be the Mahdi would be put to death by the Abbasid Caliph al-Mansur. The Imam repeated this prediction a number times and did so many years before the actual occurrence, most prominently at the meeting of the Hashimis at Abwa. This became widely known from him, such that even Sunni authorities like Ibn Khaldun in his Muqadimma and al-Dhahabi in his Siyar make a mention of it. al-Muhsini: Perhaps what is meant by ‘kings’ are those up to the time of the ‘Aimma. To have the names of all kings from the beginning of creation to the end of the world, over all countries and for all time, would require several volumes, how large would this book be in size? In any case, al-Muhsini does not accept the reliability of this particular narrations because of his doubts about Basair as a source.
    • Bruv. Costs an arm and a leg (means it costs a lot of money)  
    • Salaam Alaykum Inshaallah on your effort. Allah put you on the right path. Be grateful for that. About your question, yes you need to pray and fast for those days, but don't worry. It's not that much hard. For example, I do one day Qadha pray everyday, so after two years and half from now I'll be done with Qadha prays. You can also come up with a program for Qadha fasts as well. Here are two posts for Qadha prays and fasts:   Keep going brother
    • Brother, offer thanks to Allah & instead of inventing questions like these, ask Him to grant you the steadfastness on deen.  Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 54:
      يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ ذَٰلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ O you who believe! whoever from among you turns back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people, He shall love them and they shall love Him, lowly before the believers, mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way and shall not fear the censure of any censurer; this is Allah's Face, He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is Ample-giving, Knowing.
      (English - Shakir) Surah Muhammad, Verse 25:
      إِنَّ الَّذِينَ ارْتَدُّوا عَلَىٰ أَدْبَارِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا تَبَيَّنَ لَهُمُ الْهُدَى الشَّيْطَانُ سَوَّلَ لَهُمْ وَأَمْلَىٰ لَهُمْ Surely (as for) those who return on their backs after that guidance has become manifest to them, the Shaitan has made it a light matter to them; and He gives them respite.
      (English - Shakir) Try to take benifits from the blessed nights like shab e qadr, shab e bara'at, last friday night & day of Ramadhan. They will makeup your account & removes your burden In-sha Allah. And no, its not too late. A true & sincere repentence is all what one need for his success before death approaches him. Just try to offer obligatory prayers with sunnah & salat al layl regularly from now onwards. And try to use the blessed nights. Dont worry, put your trust on Allah. He is the Most Merciful. Learning is a continuous process which never ends. We even learn something from our own death. You're Alhamdolillah alive, start your journey with prayer "Rabbi zidni ilma". 
    • Great quotation from the FT today.  https://www.ft.com/content/f1d5571c-d119-11e7-b781-794ce08b24dc Note how: 1. an undemocratic putsch is now defined as being 'popularly backed' making a weak attempt at legitimising it 2. the previous democratically elected government is now disparaged by simply being labelled Islamist. Black is white and white is black.
×