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Sindbad05

Jinnah's Ideology of Pakistan

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Afghans have never been sympathetic towards Pakistan. Despite being Muslims, they were first to deny Pakistan on the eve of creation so Afghans were also responsible for bringing mess of terrorism to their lands. 

Yes because they considered 20% of Pakistan as part of Afghanistan that was gifted to them by their colonial masters the same way that the Brits gifted parts of Palestine to Israel. Its like Israelis saying Palestinians were never sympathetic towards Israel because they tried hard for the failure of the formation Israel.

Do you know that Pakistan & Israel have been the top 2 recipients of USAid since their creation? And do you even wonder why? And do you know that both of these problem makers were formed based on religion?

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10 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

imagine.....Kurds will vote to secede from Iran, Balochs likewise  in moves sponsored by Iran's adversary. And if Iran refuses then it becomes the bad guy for not letting Kurds unite with their kurdish brothers in West and Balochs in the East...talk of tyranny!!!!

Nationalism on the basis of caste and color is unacceptable for Muslims. Separation of Kurds and Balochs is war within Ummah and unacceptable to God and a grave sin. 

10 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Pakistan, the womb of global terrorism , was a mistake. And so long as the regional people are naive enough to not see the real powers, interests, and motivations behind creation of this tumour, the region will be captive in the same darkness that it is today. 
And good Pakistanis will go on to defend the rights of their Muslims brothers in Kashmir, while better Pakistanis will go on the wreak havoc in Afghanistan and Iran....and maybe one day lead the Saudi Arabian Israeli NATO.

Real womb of terrorism is USA and Europe who are engaged in creating terrorists in every country. They always come up with plans to defame Islam. Pakistan is one of the victims of terrorism due to failed policy of its previous government officials for which it has paid a heavy price but as far as I believe that Pakistan will not end unless it has some faith among it's nation for God says: "He AWJ will not destroy a nation in which good people are still living". 

Due to trump, you cannot call all ages of US to be a mistake but indeed the role of USA in this and previous century was full of mistakes and earned a bad name for it. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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5 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Yes because they considered 20% of Pakistan as part of Afghanistan that was gifted to them by their colonial masters the same way that the Brits gifted parts of Palestine to Israel. Its like Israelis saying Palestinians were never sympathetic towards Israel because they tried hard for the failure of the formation Israel.

Do you know that Pakistan & Israel have been the top 2 recipients of USAid since their creation? And do you even wonder why? And do you know that both of these problem makers were formed based on religion?

That was not gifted to them but was invaded by Afghans and the first invasion was done by Mahmood Ghaznavi who occupied it and Punjab for a long time. Colonialism is not ownership.

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

Nationalism on the basis of caste and color is unacceptable for Muslims. Separation of Kurds and Balochs is war within Ummah and unacceptable to God and a grave sin. 

Oh come on and give me a break with this ummah stuff,

According to you separation of Kurds from Iran is a sin because they are both Muslims but the murder of Muslims in Afghanistan is ok because your shiny little cartoon of a govt is doing it...and forget about TTP excuse.....because Pakistan was at it since way before TTP ever came to be.

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

That was not gifted to them but was invaded by Afghans and the first invasion was done by Mahmood Ghaznavi who occupied it and Punjab for a long time. Colonialism is not ownership.

Oh so Mahmood Ghaznavi invaded Punjab 1000 years ago and today Pakistan is justified to occupy part of what was Afghan territory and leased to the British for 99 years?

Like I said, nationalism makes a cartoon of a man.

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2 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Oh come on and give me a break with this ummah stuff,

According to you separation of Kurds from Iran is a sin because they are both Muslims but the murder of Muslims in Afghanistan is ok because your shiny little cartoon of a govt is doing it...and forget about TTP excuse.....because Pakistan was at it since way before TTP ever came to be.

Every type of terrorism within Muslim Ummah or out of Muslim Ummah is unacceptable but it does not mean that one should leave Islam bro. Have you read about Imam Hussain a.s ? Taliban and ISIS are same as Yazid was but Hussain a.s did not say that I give up Islam. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Real womb of terrorism is USA and Europe who are engaged in creating terrorists in every country. They always come up with plans to defame Islam. Pakistan is one of the victims of terrorism due to failed policy of its previous government officials for which it has paid a heavy price but as far as I believe that Pakistan will not end unless it has some faith among it's nation for God says: "He AWJ will not destroy a nation in which good people are still living". 

Due to trump, you cannot call all ages of US to be a mistake but indeed the role of USA in this and previous century was full of mistakes and earned a bad name for it. 

Its like you are a Pakistani general and I am a Pakistani citizen...except that I am not buying it. Because I have a rather clear view of history and current affairs.
How can Pakistan be a victim of terrorism when it actively nourishes all these for-rent terrorist organizations? I am sure that you have a very good reasons for it....lets guess...its India's fault or is it Afghanistan's? or if you are sunni then its definitely Iran's fault.

I am done with this thread....thanks 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

@Wahdat 

Even today the Kurds and Balochs are being played by Britons, US and India. If the Balochs and Kurds worship Britons, US and India and lfet Allah AWJ then Allah will neither leave them in this world without punishment nor in hereafter. 

Of course they are...and they are not the only ones...like I am saying Pakistanis likewise...The only difference is that you are seeing what is happening today with the Balochs or Kurds but not Pakistan...because you were born into it.

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Just now, Wahdat said:

Its like you are a Pakistani general and I am a Pakistani citizen...except that I am not buying it. Because I have a rather clear view of history and current affairs.
How can Pakistan be a victim of terrorism when it actively nourishes all these for-rent terrorist organizations? I am sure that you have a very good reasons for it....lets guess...its India's fault or is it Afghanistan's? or if you are sunni then its definitely Iran's fault.

I am done with this thread....thanks 

Taliban policy was bad, Pakistan got punishment and it lasted for 20 years. Lost civilians, lost military personnel, lost assets.

Now, Pakistani involvement is just for the purpose of intelligence and those who were responsible for killings due to Taliban policy are long dead and are in graves and Allah AWJ would not have allowed them respite for such mess. 

I was critical for Taliban policy as a Child when Osama was advertised in Pakistan but it was not without US support. Alhamdolilah US has bad relations with Pakistan now. 

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3 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Of course they are...and they are not the only ones...like I am saying Pakistanis likewise...The only difference is that you are seeing what is happening today with the Balochs or Kurds but not Pakistan...because you were born into it.

I know my country and my people and what is making them fight each other. The problem is at the top and not in the middle for which you are saying and reiterating "mistake". People of Pakistan established Pakistan and Chieftains of Baloch and Prime Minister of Pakistan are not representatives of actions and opinions of their nations. It is due to this that they will be put to everlasting hell for they used their power for their interests. 

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I know balochs and Pashtun and Sindhis and Punjabis leaderships that they drink alcohol and maintain bad ethics abroad but when come to Pakistan, they wear turban and local clothing to show that they maintain cultural customs but they are hypocrites. When they do bad things such as corruption and flirts and are apprehended, they wear turbans to gain the sympathies of people that "Look! because I am baloch or Pashtun or Sindhi or Punjabi that is why this bad is done to me". 

Blackmailing and making innocent people stupid is their daily routine, but Allah is watching over them all. 

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2 hours ago, Wahdat said:

I am aware of such hollow hatred of India in Pakistan or Iran in Sunni countries that are motivated by a blind sense of nationalism. 

brother you have not addressed my question with reasonable answer except moving away here and there..

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2 hours ago, Wahdat said:

Pakistani generals keep the Kashmir issue alive, fuel it, amplify it so that the gravity of power in Pakistan lies with the military and not with the civilian institutions. I dont buy their stupid fabricated concern about the plight of Kashmiri muslims when they turn around and manufacture misery 1 million times worse in Afghanistan. If you have forgotten, Afghans are muslims just like the Kashmir brothers.

So you do neglect the facts about Kashmiris who are under severe threats for life and you just try to beat the drum of innocent Afghanis who have never accepted the presence of the Pakistan.

It was a mistake of Pakistan to keep such Afghani refugees  in their home land  and provided them shelter. The action like Iran ie keeping them in the camps could have been the right solution.

Thats is the real face of Afghans we already know.

Edited by skyweb1987

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Pakistan was a British conspiracy, absolutely, that's why Mountbatten went out of his way to oppose partition, interfered with the demarcation process and fought tooth and nail with Jinnah till the very end. The British wanted to divide India, so they were willing to draw out complex negotiations till 1946 aiming to preserve a united India. Jinnah was a British agent, so he initially agreed to the Cabinet Mission Plan (the 16 June one) that called for a united Indian Federation, only leaving because of Congress's insolence. Oh-so-naive Nehru and Patel got duped by a scheming Jinnah. Sure.

Lovely sense of history you got there. 

15 hours ago, Wahdat said:

India remains peaceful and to a great extent independent. Unlike China the instruments of state did not cause mass starvation or mass death as was the case in Mao's China. And unlike Pakistan it did not do business with the blood of its citizen. So all in all India fared pretty good...Hindu fanatics are however doing their best to make a Pakistan of India...we are not there yet. 
I personally see similarities between Nehru & Khamenei- while Gandhi & Khomenei were the true revolutionaries, the former two strengthened the foundations of their states and ensured the survival of their ideals. 

It has taken India a grand total of 4 democratic years to devolve to the state where Pakistan is today. At least we did not choose poison. It were imposed upon us. You, on the other hand, take pride in having a mass murderer as PM. 

What Nehru did really well was hold together the British legacy of an impartial state. What India is moving towards now, a majoritarian Hindutva state, is nothing more than a consequence of the unraveling of the colonial legacy, similar to what happened to Pakistan in the 80s.

A politicized Hindu identity has risen, and it will kick and burn and code and compile the lynched bodies of minorities. 

I'm out.

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12 hours ago, Wahdat said:

So stop defending the Pakistani side and call the Afghan side terrorists. They are both one and the same. They are both terrorists. 

No they are not same. 

The birth place & breeding place of Taliban & Daesh is Afghanistan, not Pakistan. It were the Afghans who migrated to Pakistan & start living there, obtained the nationality illegally, and started creating trouble in Pakistan. They started doing business of smuggling, drugs, weapons etc. 

It were the Afghans who started to emerge as enemy of Pakistan & friends of India soon after the creation of Pakistan and in late 60's to 70's they started to spread mischief in Pakistan in the form of civil war. Pakistan's response to them was tit-for-tat. Whether it was the time of Dawood Khan or Najeeb, the Afghan soil was used against Pakistan.    

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13 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

No they are not same. 

The birth place & breeding place of Taliban & Daesh is Afghanistan, not Pakistan. It were the Afghans who migrated to Pakistan & start living there, obtained the nationality illegally, and started creating trouble in Pakistan. They started doing business of smuggling, drugs, weapons etc. 

It were the Afghans who started to emerge as enemy of Pakistan & friends of India soon after the creation of Pakistan and in late 60's to 70's they started to spread mischief in Pakistan in the form of civil war. Pakistan's response to them was tit-for-tat. Whether it was the time of Dawood Khan or Najeeb, the Afghan soil was used against Pakistan.    

Its real hard to talk with folks who are incapable to see the world as a rational human beings utilizing their god given constitution & common sense.

According to Pakistanis Its always India's fault. Its always Afghanistan's fault. Its always Iran's fault. Pakistan, the womb of international terror, is the innocent bystander.
According to Israelis, just as their Pakistani cousins, its always Palestinian, Egyptian, Iranian, Syrian, or Lebanese fault.

If according to you its the fault of Afghans then according to the same measure what is going on in Syria is the absolute fault of the Syrians and not Saudi or Qatar or Turkey or....Iraqis' fault for the war in Iraq.

lastly, why cant you all speak as human beings? as an individuals?  

 

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23 hours ago, Brained said:

Pakistan was a British conspiracy, absolutely, that's why Mountbatten went out of his way to oppose partition, interfered with the demarcation process and fought tooth and nail with Jinnah till the very end.

US is also against the Kurdish independence...on paper that is.

To get a clear view of Jinnah in the overall game of international politics where Pakistan was but a chapter- imagine a kindergartener in an international summit on climate change. He was clueless to say the very very very least.

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21 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Its real hard to talk with folks who are incapable to see the world as a rational human beings utilizing their god given constitution & common sense.

According to Pakistanis Its always India's fault. Its always Afghanistan's fault. Its always Iran's fault. Pakistan, the womb of international terror, is the innocent bystander.
According to Israelis, just as their Pakistani cousins, its always Palestinian, Egyptian, Iranian, Syrian, or Lebanese fault.

If according to you its the fault of Afghans then according to the same measure what is going on in Syria is the absolute fault of the Syrians and not Saudi or Qatar or Turkey or....Iraqis' fault for the war in Iraq.

lastly, why cant you all speak as human beings? as an individuals?  

Well, you are accusing a country which was besieged by Communists on one side and Afghans on other side. While that problem has ended but you are still unable to say any words on the "Terrorism in Kashmir". I think your eyes of justice are also unable to see for it is said that Justice is blind. 

May be, it was also Pakistan's fault that India withheld 750 Million pounds on the eve of Independence. May be, It was also Pakistan's fault that India invaded Kashmir by violating 3rd June Plan 1947, It was also Pakistan's fault that many people were killed by RSS and Sikhs in India. And, it is also Pakistan's fault that he agreed to Indus Water Treaty and now India is constructing dams in violation of the Indus Water Treaty. 

May be you are in deep love with India that is why you cannot hear injustices done by your beloved. 

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'East' (specially Muslim majority countries) took a dive when it chose imaginary lines/borders become the basis of all their values. 'West' grew magnificently when it let common sense, rational, and reason determine their entire value system. Seeing the world in terms of flags or labels such as Afghans, Pakistanis, Indians, Iranians or...is a colossal mistake and let history be the 900 pound witness. Lets learn to see as human beings if the plan is to live with deserving peace, security, and dignity anytime in future.

I firmly believe that there is no difference among the people in the region. They are all victims of an international system that is not favourable to them. They are all oppressed by this system through agents of the system that we know as govts. People all over the region could live far better when we do away with these European imaginary lines that are separating us. The region has enough resources to take the commanding heights of global economy & politics. I mean there are natural resources in Central Asia and human resources in South Asia, when combined it would put EU or East Asia to shame. Instead these resources are used to build & fuel other regions. 

The only blockage to regional integration is Pakistan. Its stopping India to connect with Central Asia, and it is stopping Iran to connect with India. This cancerous entity was created for this purpose and goes on to be financed for this purpose- to keep the region divided and weak.
And in all honesty I do not mean to be offensive.

 

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7 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

The only blockage to regional integration is Pakistan. Its stopping India to connect with Central Asia, and it is stopping Iran to connect with India. This cancerous entity was created for this purpose and goes on to be financed for this purpose- to keep the region divided and weak.

Again bias. India is the country which is withholding talks brother. Since the start of this thread, I did not hear from you that you might have said that "India is doing wrong in Kashmir and Balochistan". No word for it ? This is not justice. 

Please read dialogue history, it is not Pakistan but India. 

And you are talking about joining boundaries together, our ancestors tried but Hindus have sense of depravity in head that is why they want to rule every minority around them. So, this is no longer possible. The only countries which appear to be enemies to the west is not India but Pakistan and China. So, look how much India is hypocrite that every wrong country is good with her. lolz. 

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19 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Again bias. India is the country which is withholding talks brother. Since the start of this thread, I did not hear from you that you might have said that "India is doing wrong in Kashmir and Balochistan". No word for it ? This is not justice. 

Pakistan has 4 neighbours, 3 active borders and has exported terror through all 3 of its active borders- Iran, Afghanistan, and India. Afghanistan has 5 neighbours and 5 active borders, Iran has 12, and India has 6.
Yet Pakistan is the only oddball involved with terror problems and is the only problematic and terror exporting country for each of its neighbours. Lets say that oh its because its neighbours export terror to poor Pakistan. Then ask yourself why dont those neighbours have any problem with any other neighbours and why only Pakistan?

Pakistan is bad news for the region and for the world as a whole. Its run like a crooked mafia organization and like legitimate legal states like Iran, India, China, or Russia. Its layers upon layers upon layers of corruption thats decaying the region. I mean the govt/system and of course not the people for people everywhere and from every religion or race are pretty much the same.
 

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37 minutes ago, Wahdat said:

Yet Pakistan is the only oddball involved with terror problems and is the only problematic and terror exporting country for each of its neighbours. Lets say that oh its because its neighbours export terror to poor Pakistan. Then ask yourself why dont those neighbours have any problem with any other neighbours and why only Pakistan?

Pakistan is bad news for the region and for the world as a whole. Its run like a crooked mafia organization and like legitimate legal states like Iran, India, China, or Russia. Its layers upon layers upon layers of corruption thats decaying the region. I mean the govt/system and of course not the people for people everywhere and from every religion or race are pretty much the same.
 

hahahahahahaha, I did not hear except Afghanistan and India who is accusing Pakistan of terrorism. Pakistan army is only engaged on two borders in exchange of fire and that is due to Afghanistan and India who always initiate fire first. 

I still see that you are hesitant to say that India has been committing terrorism in Kashmir. You are not at all just bro. 

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8 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

hahahahahahaha, I did not hear except Afghanistan and India who is accusing Pakistan of terrorism. Pakistan army is only engaged on two borders in exchange of fire and that is due to Afghanistan and India who always initiate fire first. 

I still see that you are hesitant to say that India has been committing terrorism in Kashmir. You are not at all just bro. 

Doesnt the Pakistani-terrorists-for-hire every once in a while attack Iranian security forces? Arent Pakistani terrorists not killing Pakistani citizens every once in a while- groups like LeK or LJ? Arent India and Afg victims of Pakistani terror? Why Iranian security forces are not attacked by 11 other of its neighbours? Why Afghanistan has no terror related problem with any of its neighbours except for Pakistan? India likewise. 

Yet no other country in the region has any terror related problem with one another. Pakistan, like its step-brother Israel, are two unique countries that have nothing but problems with their neighbours, both are the only two countries in the world that are formed based on religion, and contribute nothing but insecurity in their neighbourhoods.

Pakistan is the cancer that is killing the region.

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