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Some time ago I argued that with the passing of time and the growth of Muslim communities in the West there would appear a different and distinct strain of Islam which might be dubbed "Western Islam." What it would mean and how it would look like is a debate that is still in its infancy, so it remains to be seen as what shape and form it would eventually take.

There was a counterargument that there wouldn't be such a thing as Western Islam and that Muslims would either be religious in the traditional sense or they would abandon religion altogether.

The number of atheists or agnostics is growing if personal experience is anything to go by, but at the same time many more people are trying to find that precarious balance that makes them be an integrated Western Muslim as well as a practicing one. 

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Coming from a country in which West and East, as concepts were rather imposed and forcibly differentiated, I don't see Western Islam, going by notme's approach, anything wrong.

In the second hand, if anything defines the best of the West today properly, that is probably science (a discipline which had its grounds on the early islamic thinkers and intellectuals). That should prove that Western societies, back then, had no problem in being influenced by the East. Rather, they searched for that influence. How many travelled to the East or al Andalus for the sake of gerting knowledge?

Thus, avoiding influence of the West, merely because is different, is just ignorance. An intelligent person would separate the good from the bad and welcome influence from any culture. Especially in this globalized world.

I honestly believe we should not only avoid resisting the good influence we may achieve, but search for it. As for the bad influence, that's up to our level of stupidity and lack of control. We can't blame other cultures and societies for it (it's like those people who say Youtube is haram).

Edited by Bakir

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There are some fantastic things about certain western countries that are more islamic than in many muslim countries. Things such as worker rights, government provisions, scientific and academic advancements. There are unislamic things for sure in Western societies, but we always think of these when we think of "western culture", there are good parts to it too, its just not what you'll hear on the media or see on your television. Countries like Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Finland are consistently ranked among the best places to live, why? They have obviously done a lot of things right, and I don't think its bad to learn from them on matters that don't violate islamic law. 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum,

Please put on mute, just wanted to give visual image of corruption

This is the type of assimilation that is wanted of Muslims.

Deen Squad's Cover Girl Rockin' that Hijab (search on YT)

Muslims wearing a rag I refuse to call it hijab, full make up, shape molding clothes, dancing and singing.  This is what they are pushing and the girls are anything but modest.

I do not recognize this as Ummat Mohammad but Ummat Uncle Sam.

It doesn't stop at the West, here in the East the girls are also imitating them,  with smoking in mixed settings the argela, nose/face piercings and the infamous Yoga pants that show every single curve on your body.

The corruption is widespread East and West and just horrifying, I wish sometimes I don't have to step out of the house to see such disgusting filth that pollutes my eyes.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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On 9/25/2017 at 6:02 PM, Mohamed1993 said:

There are some fantastic things about certain western countries that are more islamic than in many muslim countries. Things such as worker rights, government provisions, scientific and academic advancements. There are unislamic things for sure in Western societies, but we always think of these when we think of "western culture", there are good parts to it too, its just not what you'll hear on the media or see on your television. Countries like Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Finland are consistently ranked among the best places to live, why? They have obviously done a lot of things right, and I don't think its bad to learn from them on matters that don't violate islamic law. 

First of all, it is unfair to compare muslim countries of today that are like toddlers in terms of how old they are. I don't think countries like Sweden, Finland, etc. had their country be divided up along lines of resource extraction and caring nothing of the people who lived there and what THEY wanted (see the dissolution and cutting up of the middle east by the western powers involved in WW1). Also, I think these european countries have not suffered western imperialism and propping up of dictators, etc. In fact, for how much nonsense middle eastern countries and North African countries have been through due to either the west, or political rivalries instigated by intelligence agencies in the west, or by general civil war not necessarily instigated by the west but the west throwing some dollars over to the guy who becomes president, etc. are still doing remarkably well for such instability. In fact, dare I say much better compared to how unstable european countries were before. Don't believe me? Look at this map to see just where violence was concentrated in the world. Oh, what's that Europe is the area the most lit up consistently on the map throughout thousands of years? http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/1/geo/fullscreen

Also, need I remind you that when countries like KSA(as a shia I dislike them too but bear with me here) and Iran DO decide to have things like modesty police, implement strict gender segregation in places in public in order to PREVENT HARASSMENT the western world and muslims lose their minds? Also, countries like Sweden, etc. have on the surface level a good society but are just as bad as any other country. Sure, they have extremely liberal policies like free education, etc. but at the same time sexual assault, molestation occurs in HIGH RATES there as well. The Difference? Women in these scandinavian countries purposely don't report harassment because it will ruin their social or workplace reputation. In these countries, most harassment comes from people close to these women either in familial relation, friends, or workplace associates.Did your boss or fellow employee harasses you? Don't tell, otherwise you won't get another job. Boyfriend harasses you? Don't tell as his family might hate you. THat is why in these countries you see minorities especially if they of a different skin color other than pale white be more reported. It is because these scandinavian societies are just as vitriolic as any other country when it comes to racism, they just don't believe in manifesting it in the ways Americans do. For example, the Japanese seem to have a chill society unless you are not japanese then you get discriminated like heck in that society and behind your back even middle and high schoolers use toxic racist terms to refer to you, if you are not japanese. Same thing in scandinavian countries, due to the vitriolic dislike of foreigners who don't "look like them" women will feel they have nothing to lose by reporting it. However, if some pale white swedish, finnish, etc. man who is, say your workplace employee harasses you? Best not report him, otherwise you might not get hired for another job. Don't take my word for it, the swedish police force who are in charge of things like mitigating sexual harassment reported to the press after the whole "refugee" garbage started by Breitbart and said that it is important to realize that swedish women often times do not report as much harassment as they should and that if they do, well let's just say white swedish men be the biggest harassers and assaulters in Sweden by a huge margin. 

 

Bottom line, western countries are not "better" in any sense. Take it from a guy who is studying and living on campus in the west that is liberal etc. Harassment and assault occur here in ridiculous amounts and until recently was not brought to light. 

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A westernized version of islam? What does that actually mean? 

The only interpretation/things I can think of are negative. 

Does it mean a version of islam where western culture and values are integrated into it? I do not see the need for that.

In the middle east, where you see muslims lacking in any area it is not because they do not apply "good" western values, its because they are applying the bad things of their own culture, meanwhile not caring about what Islam says.

Dishonesty, cheating, poor work morale, back talking, not caring for the poor, being unfair, corruption in politics, these are things you might find in the middle east, but they are not because islam is lacking anything, it is because people are not adhering to it, why? Because that would take effort and sincerity.

I do not think islam per say is lacking anything and that it needs to change a single inch in any direction. Times change, that is true, but humans does not.

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49 minutes ago, Guest Account Ali said:

First of all, it is unfair to compare muslim countries of today that are like toddlers in terms of how old they are. I don't think countries like Sweden, Finland, etc. had their country be divided up along lines of resource extraction and caring nothing of the people who lived there and what THEY wanted (see the dissolution and cutting up of the middle east by the western powers involved in WW1). Also, I think these european countries have not suffered western imperialism and propping up of dictators, etc. In fact, for how much nonsense middle eastern countries and North African countries have been through due to either the west, or political rivalries instigated by intelligence agencies in the west, or by general civil war not necessarily instigated by the west but the west throwing some dollars over to the guy who becomes president, etc. are still doing remarkably well for such instability. In fact, dare I say much better compared to how unstable european countries were before. Don't believe me? Look at this map to see just where violence was concentrated in the world. Oh, what's that Europe is the area the most lit up consistently on the map throughout thousands of years? http://battles.nodegoat.net/viewer.p/23/385/scenario/1/geo/fullscreen

Also, need I remind you that when countries like KSA(as a shia I dislike them too but bear with me here) and Iran DO decide to have things like modesty police, implement strict gender segregation in places in public in order to PREVENT HARASSMENT the western world and muslims lose their minds? Also, countries like Sweden, etc. have on the surface level a good society but are just as bad as any other country. Sure, they have extremely liberal policies like free education, etc. but at the same time sexual assault, molestation occurs in HIGH RATES there as well. The Difference? Women in these scandinavian countries purposely don't report harassment because it will ruin their social or workplace reputation. In these countries, most harassment comes from people close to these women either in familial relation, friends, or workplace associates.Did your boss or fellow employee harasses you? Don't tell, otherwise you won't get another job. Boyfriend harasses you? Don't tell as his family might hate you. THat is why in these countries you see minorities especially if they of a different skin color other than pale white be more reported. It is because these scandinavian societies are just as vitriolic as any other country when it comes to racism, they just don't believe in manifesting it in the ways Americans do. For example, the Japanese seem to have a chill society unless you are not japanese then you get discriminated like heck in that society and behind your back even middle and high schoolers use toxic racist terms to refer to you, if you are not japanese. Same thing in scandinavian countries, due to the vitriolic dislike of foreigners who don't "look like them" women will feel they have nothing to lose by reporting it. However, if some pale white swedish, finnish, etc. man who is, say your workplace employee harasses you? Best not report him, otherwise you might not get hired for another job. Don't take my word for it, the swedish police force who are in charge of things like mitigating sexual harassment reported to the press after the whole "refugee" garbage started by Breitbart and said that it is important to realize that swedish women often times do not report as much harassment as they should and that if they do, well let's just say white swedish men be the biggest harassers and assaulters in Sweden by a huge margin. 

 

Bottom line, western countries are not "better" in any sense. Take it from a guy who is studying and living on campus in the west that is liberal etc. Harassment and assault occur here in ridiculous amounts and until recently was not brought to light. 

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, i'm just saying every place has its good and bad, and people often refer to the west as evil all the time, it is not in many ways, like the ways I pointed out. Things like socialist policies in education, health and social security/pensions are very islamic principles. A lot of the West's policies come from judeo-christian values, which aren't very different from Islam. Yes, it is true they have dropped a lot of religious laws now, like allowing abortions and lgbt marriages, but some laws have still stuck around that have roots in abrahamic tradition. No society can claim to be perfect. Iran is an islamic country, but I'm sure a lot of stuff happens underground too, and I'm sure there is still corruption within the government. Ultimately, bro, there is no perfect society, what's important is that you can practice islam freely and to the best of your ability and I think it is possible in many of the western countries, not possible in many of the sunni majority nations. 

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Islam doesn't belong to any hemisphere, but "westerners" practicing Islam will have their own culture, different from the culture of Muslims in the eastern hemisphere. It would be ridiculous to think that being Muslim is incompatible with being ... whatever nationality, ethnicity, or culture. 

The only negative connotation to "Western Islam" is applied by bigotry. 

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Salam upon you all, 

I see this issue as for whether or not Islam approves culture. The fact is that Islam does not aim to "finish" cultures. In the pre-Islamic era, the Arabic culture had some bad attributes. When Islam came, it did not only guide Arabs to warn them against the bad implications of these bad attributes, but also supports the good attributes of the culture. So, in the case of the west or any other culture, this applies. 

Furthermore, using "type" or "stereotyping" terminology is unnecessary. I do not see any reason why someone who is Muslim would refer to his/her religion and belief as "Americanized belief." The belief is the belief. The prayer is the prayer, and the fasting is the same as anywhere else. But, it just happens that this Muslim happens to be a different culture or environment. Yes, this Muslim who lives in America may have characteristics that differ than a Muslim who lives in the Middle East. This is natural. But, it should not lead us to stereotyping the situation because at the end, again, the belief is the belief and who has a good faith is surely the one who fears Allah the most regardless of where he/she is from and which environment he/she is in.

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11 hours ago, notme said:

The only negative connotation to "Western Islam" is applied by bigotry. 

Someone needs to define what "western islam" actually means, if its the implementation of modifications to suit a more liberal value basis, such as on mixed gatherings, music, less hijab, homosexuality, etc. Then it is without a doubt something negative; not because it is different from the culture of the countries with more muslims in (middle east), but because it is different from the teaching of the holy Qur'an, the sunnah of the Prophet(S), his family(S) and the hadiths we have.

Of course there is "wiggle room" but the line between whats the application of individual culture and what goes against islam as a religion can be very thin some times in my opinion.

My point is that, to my opinion, there is nothing called western islam or eastern islam, theres just something called islam and different levels of adhering to it.

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Islam was not brought to earth by aliens and does not grow in vacuum. It builds on the pre-existing norms with the aim of making them leaner, efficient, and productive. Thats why Islam all over the world comes with local flavours- for example there are differences between the way Islam is perceived, interpreted, and practiced in Iran & Pakistan, or Afghanistan & Iraq or Saudi etc. Islam in West likewise: I believe it will have a Western flavour i.e. it will be smarter, more informed, tolerant, productive, and less dogmatic than Islam in Asian societies.  This is not  to say that Western folks are better than the rest but that they have more resources available to be/become better.

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20 hours ago, Jebreil said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم
السلام علیکم

@Wahdat
Could you elaborate please on the last few lines of your post?

و علیکم السلام

AS,
It will be more informed & productive because it will build on the immense educational tools & knowledge available in the West. And it has to be the torch bearer of tolerance & diversity if it is to be followed by the mass.

To give you a glimpse of the state of affairs- More books are translated into Spanish in Spain every year than all the books translated into Arabic in the last 1000 years. And Spain is but an average country in West. 

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5 hours ago, Wahdat said:

To give you a glimpse of the state of affairs- More books are translated into Spanish in Spain every year than all the books translated into Arabic in the last 1000 years. And Spain is but an average country in West. 

Quality is more important than quantity. The vast majority of books published these days are pure trash. No doubt that is true of books published in Arabic as well, but just because the West is pumping out a ridiculous volume of books, it doesn't necessarily imply any intellectual superiority among the masses.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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There is nothing inherently wrong with a Western Islam, but there would be a major problem with an Islam that fits in with modern Western values, that have nothing to do with traditional Western values, let along Islamic ones. The West has collectively taken leave of its senses over the past few decades, and Muslims would do better to open their eyes and realise that, rather than trying to follow this self-destructive trajectory.

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Quote

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

السلام علیکم

@Wahdat

But does Islam have - in honesty - the means for tolerance and diversity in the current Western sense?

But these books haven't made Spain an ideal Islamic society or even close, so why should a Muslim who is rightly frustrated with the reality in the Arab/Eastern world seek answers in Spain or the like?

و علیکم السلام

Islam will have whatever means its adherents bestow upon it- whether its noble ones or takfiri ones.
The Spain example I gave was to shed light on the intellectual staleness of the Islamic societies while at the same time the vibrance of the Western ones..about the flow of ideas and knowledge. When the Muslim community in the West grows enough to use this available vehicle, then they'd be able to acquire & provide all the answers needed for everyone anywhere. This is why I am optimistic about what is to come.

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30 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

Quality is more important than quantity. The vast majority of books published these days are pure trash. No doubt that is true of books published in Arabic as well, but just because the West is pumping out a ridiculous volume of books, it doesn't necessarily imply any intellectual superiority among the masses.

1000s of Pashtun/Muslim women have come to Canada and live with dignity and honor. Last week the Canadian guy who was released from the Pashtun captivity told the world how their captors kept on raping his wife.  I do not even want to go to Syria to show you the spiritual & moral decadence of some the Islamic communities. So yeah, books, knowledge, ideas etc are necessary for a healthy society or community. West is intellectually & morally superior.

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