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MustafaMc

Difference between Sunni and Shi'a

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Salaam brother @MustafaMc,

someone has proven before, that shias are mathematically correct. here's how.

according to shia: islam = Quran + Ahlul Bait........(1)

according to sunni, islam = Quran + Sunnah--------(2)

subtarcting (1) from (2) (or (2) from (1), if u like),

we have Sunnah = Ahlul Bait

meaning the Sunnah of the Prophet is with Ahlul Bait.

u can find info from kitab 'uyun akhbar Imam Ali Reza (as) vol 2, if i'm not mistaken, about a letter from imam ali al-hadi (as), as a response to a question from one of his followers, that Quran itself witnesses the correctness of shias during that time. maybe, more knowledgeable bro/sis can share that info here.

having said that, i believe the world would be a better place to live in if every1

[Shakir 5:48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

may Allah guides us all to the true path.

Edited by hoskot

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On 9/30/2017 at 8:39 PM, S.M.H.A. said:

You keep referring to and trying to confine it to the Sectarian Identity/Defined Sects as the Madhab( school of thought within fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence)) dealing with ONLY  Furu’ al-Deen( Laws governing Islamic Acts, Prayers, Fasting, Hajj, Zakat etc..)  means the branches of religion.

Islamic Acts are governed by the Beliefs/Faith. Roots of the Religion,( Usool-e-Deen) - which includes a proper understanding of the Last and the Seal of the Prophets Muhammad( peace be upon him and his pure progeny) which in turn leads to proper understanding of Tawheed.

I will hold my comments on your comments about The Tragedy of Thursday( for now)

*****

2)What happened at Saqifa.( when the supposedly believers in the Message and the Messenger, felt the need to take care of an urgent and unresolved issue of succession)

A)Tribal issues dominated Saqifa?

B)Nothing to do with Islam or the teachings/sayings/commandments of Quran/the Prophet( Ghadir Khum)?

Tribal issue purely 

 

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On 9/24/2017 at 10:45 AM, MustafaMc said:

 

I have read a few books that have given me an understanding on the Sunni-Shi'a split.

 

I provided Lecture 01 out of the series of 11or 12. These are Muharram lectures, and there are so many speakers. I am only up to the night 2. This lecture is very informative, you will gain great insight form it. You can search the rest on youtube. 

 

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13 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

Tribal issue purely 

 

You had provided few points for the first issue, I did not comment on it, for various reasons. My comments may distract us from the real issue. ( I will save it for later). Once I have your understanding on who you see the way you see these as Tribal. But this does not mean that you should not back up your claim with facts/causes. Above is just an answer to the second issue of Saqifa. , Does not provided any insight into your strong recommendation you made on page 1. 

Can you also provide few point each,  to back up your strong recommendation for 

3)Fadak

4)Battle of Jamal( Camel)

5)Battle of Siffin

6)Burial of Imam Hassan(as)

7)Karbala

 

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3 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You had provided few points for the first issue, I did not comment on it, for various reasons. My comments may distract us from the real issue. ( I will save it for later). Once I have your understanding on who you see the way you see these as Tribal. But this does not mean that you should not back up your claim with facts/causes. Above is just an answer to the second issue of Saqifa. , Does not provided any insight into your strong recommendation you made on page 1. 

Can you also provide few point each,  to back up your strong recommendation for 

3)Fadak

4)Battle of Jamal( Camel)

5)Battle of Siffin

6)Burial of Imam Hassan(as)

7)Karbala

 

I cannot have a monologue with myself 

If you want to discuss post your opinions too 

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4 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

I cannot have a monologue with myself 

If you want to discuss post your opinions too 

You know my opinion and reasons.

You made this point, and that's why you were asked to back it up. If you do not want to continue. that's your choice.

 

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5 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You know my opinion and reasons.

You made this point, and that's why you were asked to back it up. If you do not want to continue. that's your choice.

 

Cannot back it up in a few posts

I'll recommend some sources if you like ...and you can recommend me your sources 

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10 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

A personal  Property dispute it was not a political or military dispute so I'm not much interested in it 

Its between Abu bakr and Fatima 

God knows whoever was right

Btw what "inner circle " were you talking about ?

 

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7 minutes ago, Panzerwaffe said:

A personal  Property dispute it was not a political or military dispute so I'm not much interested in it 

Its between Abu bakr and Fatima 

God knows whoever was right

Btw what "inner circle " were you talking about ?

 

Are you implying that Sayeda Fatima (as) could be wrong? Are you implying that she is not ma'suma?

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12 hours ago, Panzerwaffe said:

A personal  Property dispute it was not a political or military dispute so I'm not much interested in it 

Its between Abu bakr and Fatima 

God knows whoever was right

Btw what "inner circle " were you talking about ?

 

Any Interest in these? Or there were just Tribal issue, Noting to do with Islam. ?

4)Battle of Jamal( Camel)

https://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/battle-basra-battle-camel

5)Battle of Siffin

https://www.al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-ashgar-razwy/battle-siffin

6)Burial of Imam Hassan(as)

https://www.al-islam.org/articles/imam-al-hasan-second-imam-brief-look-his-life

7)Karbala

https://www.al-islam.org/event-taff-earliest-historical-account-tragedy-karbala-abu-mikhnaf/introduction

for 4/5/7 can also refer to 

KITÃB AL-IRSHÃD tHE book of guidance into the lives of the twelve imams By: Shaykh al-Mufīd

http://www.shia-maktab.info/index.php/en/library/books/english?format=raw&task=download&fid=93

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On 9/24/2017 at 7:45 PM, MustafaMc said:

i know little about the Shi'a practice of Islam, but I see Ali as being a wealth of knowledge that is largely ignored in Sunni Islam. I am interested in learning more about the differences between Sunni and Shi'a so that I can make an informed decision as to whether I want to stay Sunni or become a Shi'a. I understand there is a difference between Sunni and Shi'a in the athan, 3 versus 5 daily salah, the mourning of Husayn's martyrdom, question of Ali's receiving secret knowledge from Muhammad as he was dying, temporary marriage, infallibility and inspiration of the 12 Imams, etc. I will appreciate open and honest discussions to help me in my decision.

We offer five daily Salah not three. But we join Zohar and Asar together and Maghrib and Isha together. This is permission but they may be offered separately.

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On 10/1/2017 at 8:55 PM, MustafaMc said:

Guys, your arguing here is rally not helping me to understand matters that I have on my mind as noted in the opening post.

@mustafaMC Dear brother asalamualaikum. 

You don't need to tag yourself as being sunni or shia. And these tags will not earn you jannah or forgiveness. 

Believe in one God Allah and his last messenger Muhammad PBUH.  

For guidance in life one should adopt hierarchy given below. 

1: Seek guidance from Quran and follow orders of Allah in quran. 

2: if you are unable to find your answer in quran then consult to hadit. Surprisingly you will hardly need to follow hadit in your daily life. Remember early muslim seek guidance from quran and even Muhammad PBUH prohibited to write his hadit. 

3: if none above worked you can seek guidance from sahabi rasool. 

As far as shia sunni division is concerned i did study history and historians who did not bong to any sect and had no religious influence. I also read shia and sunni historical point of views. 

[Mod Note: The following are not mainstream Shia beliefs.] 

Sunni version of history : They omit all bad incidents related towards four khalifas no matter its fadak or jamal or safeen they just don't want to discuss. 

Shia version of history : They justify everything hazrat ali or hazrat hussain did and cover up if they failed to do things right. They will make up stories to prove their beliefs. They will seek arguments to alter kalimya tayyabia or namaz. They can make up stories regarding names of imams. They can even use ayats regarding Christians and women of muhammad (pbuh) for hazrat ali. 

Reason is puerly political. Shias believed in religious successors of hazrat muhammad pbuh. While khalifat was puerly political seat but its criteria was set to be pious and best amongst them. After shahadat of hazrat ali umayiads were being challenged in arab and abassied used alieds as tool to gain power by telling people that they are the right leader of Islamic state. When abassied won they sort of kept distance from alieds and made their own khalifat and then alieds gathered their supporters and formed their own government. Fatimeds also used so called love for ahl e bait to gain power later in history.  Hazrat ali was not able to get power in early khalifats because he was great warrior and he killed many close relatives to leaders of tribes back then. Later his decision to not take revenge from killers of usman ra proved deadly for his khalifat and powers as khalifa. 

Another character in shiasm is abdullah ibn saba whoes existence shias deny but historians recorded his wrongdoings in conspiracy against uthman ra and declaring hazrat ali as God. 

Last words. Believe in Allah and follow what is in his book and nothing else. What sahaba did with each other will stay with them. There is no need to fight over mistakes of our leaders in history. Their actions does not count in our beliefs / aqeedah. All of companions were people who loved muhammad pbuh and were best muslims amongst us. Everyone was lucky to have company of muhammad pbuh we have to capacity to judge them. 

May Allah show us the right path. 

Edited by Hameedeh
To add the Mod Note.

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On 10/24/2017 at 2:27 AM, usman afzal said:

[Mod Note: The following are not mainstream Shia beliefs.] 

Shia version of history : They justify everything hazrat ali or hazrat hussain did and cover up if they failed to do things right. They will make up stories to prove their beliefs. They will seek arguments to alter kalimya tayyabia or namaz. They can make up stories regarding names of imams. They can even use ayats regarding Christians and women of muhammad (pbuh) for hazrat ali. 

Disagreed . You are just spreading false and baseless claims without any evidence.

Edited by skyweb1987

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