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ali_fatheroforphans

The limits of nohay

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Salam,

I find it a shame that some Pakistani nohay have tunes which are literally stolen from Indian songs.There is no point of 'prolonged singing' to create fancy tunes. I feel that it takes away the message of Imam Hussein (as). I have heard many nohay with this exaggerated touch.

We need to be careful to know when a noha becomes impermissible. I find that a lot of them are just means of "having a bit of fun" kinda like music. Some people who do mattam are more concerned about whether the mattam has a good rhythm or not, and at this point it is just about pure entertainment. I know many people who like nohay and don't care about what the message is.

I don't have a bias against any culture or anything, but we really need to know our limits.

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Don;t listen to it. 

*****

You raised a point, let address it 

Some background information. As you are aware that I am a layman, average person with maybe below average intellect, and very very little knowledge of the Religion and absolutely very very very little of Fiqh. Having said that I like other lay people do know general outlines of most of the things.

Azadari, As I see it, in my personal opinion. Is not an obligation on anyone, we do not invite to it, thank or welcome anyone or feel indebted to anyone for attending any program or doing any work. We do what we can and just take care of the guests of Son of Sayeda Fatima Az Zahra(as).

\Some aspects Azadari are cultural. Based on your particular geographic region and culture. This is how it grows. It uses elements of the culture. Unlike a Mosque. Hussainia/Imambargah which is attached to the Mosque, has different rules. Mosques have very defined rules.

Hussainia/Imambargah is where ALL Types of people can come and attend the Majlis/Lecture Muharram programs, lecture , latmiya and some may not be the pious people you are looking for , these people come from different religions, sects, cultural, ethical, moral background. May not be even practicing muslims, maybe somewhat practicing muslims  or somewhat decent moral ethical muslims. Hussania/Imambargah is a halflwayhouse which leads to the Mosque.

Some people are more into Ammal others are into other Activities( if they were not , who is going to do that part of the program/procession) - no one need to be judgmental. Everyone is a guest. 

You will have many elements that you may not like, in many different things, Noha, Lectures, kind of people who come, what they do,....This is not an Obligatory Act, that has defined rules and regulations otherwise is null and void. There is no “To do  List” no check marks here. I did all that and I am fine, my Wudu is ok as per Fiqh or my Outward  Prayers is ok as per Fiqh.

This is not an Obligatory Act/ritual/ Unless something is Clearly and unanimously against the Sharia, it's allowed. No major Islamic law can be broken. Like mahram and non mahram attending a majlis without following proper Islamic code.

Noha/latmiya are not  Adhan, they are line written with emotion to awaken dead emotions. Like poetry, it uses references and imaginary concepts and let's say it does not cross all the ‘T” and for all the “i” as you need to do in Fiqh or any Obligatory Islamic Act ( Prayer. Fasting )( Obligatory Act-Bare minimum act to be a Muslims).Sometime the reference may not be to your personal liking or confine  to the strict Fiqhi rules/historical account. These are not Friday Prayer Lectures with strict Fiqh discipline. Here there are emotions involved especially towards the end and it's understood. No one takes a word as a Fiqh law,  and you can’t parse every word. Everything need to be understood in its proper context.

They are poetry, they capture an image for you. Paint a picture( it's not fiqh).

This happen during the Muharram. Some very regular and pious Mosque attendees ( mostly Old people(now in their advanced age) , who now are very religious get disconnected with the reality that (maybe or not ) they went through these times themselves. Another, Problem, is that some feel that they own the place. Not true, they are managing it for the Imam(as) of our time. Places are run by the contribution of the shia, otherwise they will not be able to operate. They are not private enterprise.Our private old boys country clubs.  And since it's not a Mosque program or Ritual Prayer.

Rules are different, here and some do not have the ability to make the switch- in their understanding. They are managing a multi national. Multi Religious, multicultural program. Everyone is a valued guest. You can’t turn anyone away, nor can you be rude to them because they do not confine to your pious  vision that you have achieved in you old age.. Remember this is a halfway house to the House of Allah(awj).

They will in time, become practicing Muslims and be regular attendees of the Mosque. But it all starts with the initial invitation to the Majlis/lecture/program of Son of  Sayeda Fatima Az Zahra(as). You may have very bad people with bad habits and bad views, different motives, business motives, singers, art people, movie people people who may go clubbing and do other things  attend, or get involved with any aspect. A singer may participate in a Lathmiya/noha- he/she is not changing his/her habit/routine or way over night. Some may like to listen to music, and may listen to the lathmiya made by these people...People attend/get involved Just because of the attraction of the Son of Syedda Az Zahra(as).

Apply this to the Noha/Lathmiya and other aspects of Azadari- you will get the picture.

There is an issue with age, at different ages we get involved with different activities. At a particular age, a person may be more inclined towards Noha/Latmiya and less towards listening to a lecture. We can’t be judgmental here. He/she will get to the next stage in due time, not our time frame. May listen to something that is not of your liking or taste or speaks to what you have inside you. But that is what that particular person wants at this time….

 

( Disclaimer: Do not take anything personally, or literally this is not a Fiqh write up, above only represent my opinion and certainly do not read it like - based on the grammar, the mean this..If anything is not clear, before making a judgement - ask for clarification).

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14 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I find it a shame that some Pakistani nohay have tunes which are literally stolen from Indian songs.

That is definitely wrong. I do what brother @S.M.H.A. said. Just dont listen.

13 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:

Some aspects Azadari are cultural. Based on your particular geographic region and culture. This is how it grows.

I did Arbaeen 2012 (or 2013 dont remember) in Iraq. I was shocked when I heard some Iraqi nohay and the beats of drum but if that is how they choose to remember Imam Hussain (as), then that is their choice.

The beauty of Imam Hussain (as) is that his message is universal. Same is the case with azadari. It has evolved over time as new shia communities get established around the world.

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9 hours ago, sidnaq said:

can you give an example of these types of nohay?

Okay.

I'm sure you have heard of Karbal Tou Piya Likhda (I love this noha btw).

My dad made me listen to a song called 'sheeshe ka tha dil mera" which is literally a copy of the noha 'Karbal tou piya likhda'. Be careful it's Muharram plus video might not be very appropriate (I'm not telling you to listen to it).

This took away the spirit of the noha. I don't know if the noha copied the song or the song copied the noha.

There were a couple more but I completely forgot. I'll let you know when I remember. 

Edited by ali_fatheroforphans

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9 hours ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Okay.

I'm sure you have heard of Karbal Tou Piya Likhda (I love this noha btw).

My dad made me listen to a song called 'sheeshe ka tha dil mera" which is literally a copy of the noha 'Karbal tou piya likhda'. Be careful it's Muharram plus video might not be very appropriate (I'm not telling you to listen to it).

This took away the spirit of the noha. I don't know if the noha copied the song or the song copied the noha.

There were a couple more but I completely forgot. I'll let you know when I remember. 

i see JazakAllah

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On 9/23/2017 at 2:35 AM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

I find it a shame that some Pakistani nohay have tunes which are literally stolen from Indian songs.

If I'm not mistaken, "Karbal tun piya likhda" borrows its tune from an old noha called "Sajjad main Zainab hoon".  Our nauhakhwans provide us with a service and, in my opinion, should be given the benefit of the doubt in these situations.

On 9/23/2017 at 7:37 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

This took away the spirit of the noha.

Please don't let such nonsense detract from the passion that you have for a noha about Imam Hussain as.  That song will have been forgotten about ten years from now, but people will still be reciting those nohay.

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