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SunniBrother

The merits of Talhah

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1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

The funny thing is that most people here think they are better then Talhah. He took several blows at the battle of Uhud to protect the Prophet (s.a.w.s) most people here do not have and will never have such honor.

I think it would be more fair to say that most people here hope they are better than Talha. For better or worse, we have not been tested the same way he was. 

1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

A evil man that take blows to protect the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.s). He did one mistake which he clearly regretted. Everyone here focusing on one mistake and ignoring all his merits. How evil is men who do not look a single good in people. I made this threat to show the good side of him. Now if you wanna focus on the bad go ahead.

Any proof of his repentance? Being shot with a mortal wound and repenting is different from being repentant.

No matter how many great things he did, there will always be "but" ...

6 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I'll quote Abu Bakr - "I am sure it was a error of judgement" :grin:

An error of judgement is accidentally eating a rotten apple. Being part of a conspiracy that kills thousands of people, not so much.

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Just now, SunniBrother said:

I doubt Talhah killed thousand of people

Was he one of the primary people in the Battle of Jamal? Then he was part of the cause.

Same goes for all the people on the opposite side of Imam Ali (as).

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

Was he one of the primary people in the Battle of Jamal? Then he was part of the cause.

Same goes for all the people on the opposite side of Imam Ali (as).

Jesus Christ (a.s). Can't you be more neutral? Why all this hate for everyone? Can't you see good in him? You forget that the Khawarij where from the party of Ali (a.s) when he agreed in arbitration with Muawiyah, the khawarij thought that Ali (a.s) was forsaking his 'divine right to rule' by agreeing in arbitration, by their reasoning Ali (a.s) became a kuffar for agreeing with the arbitration because he forsake his right. They hated all those who opposed Ali (a.s) as much as you and Ali (a.s) could have crushed Muawiyah if he pushed forward to battle.

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8 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So Ali (a.s) is above Muhammad (s.a.w.s)?

No, but the notion that Those who fought Prophet(s) were in greater Ignorance and hard hearted. Prophet(s) on many occasions said - Oh Allah forgive them they don't know what they're doing.

But those who fought Imam Ali(a.s) were those who knew everything about Islam, They were the closest ones from the beginning and after all the knowledge had came to them they went against the very religion. They tried to dismantle the religious Guidance (Imam Ali(a.s)) for their own grudges because Imam's Judgement was against their desires.

If you're destroying what Prophet(s) gave his entire life for, then that situation is more worse than those who were rejecting Prophet(s) before Islam was completely established.

There is nothing like Imam Ali(a.s) Nauzobillah is greater as what you interpreted.

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1 minute ago, Waseem162 said:

No, but the notion that Those who fought Prophet(s) were in greater Ignorance and hard hearted. Prophet(s) on many occasions said - Oh Allah forgive them they don't know what they're doing.

But those who fought Imam Ali(a.s) were those who knew everything about Islam, They were the closest ones from the beginning and after all the knowledge had came to them they went against the very religion. They tried to dismantle the religious Guidance (Imam Ali(a.s)) for their own grudges because Imam's Judgement was against their desires.

If you're destroying what Prophet(s) gave his entire life for, then that situation is more worse than those who were rejecting Prophet(s) before Islam was completely established.

There is nothing like Imam Ali(a.s) Nauzobillah is greater as what you interpreted.

So the Prophet (s.a.w.s) gave his entire life for Ali (a.s)? Wasn't it calling to Allah? I don't know what you think about what I think about Ali (a.s). Sure he was above everyone else, he just wasn't the only one important.

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6 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Jesus Christ (a.s). Can't you be more neutral? Why all this hate for everyone? Can't you see good in him? You forget that the Khawarij where from the party of Ali (a.s) when he agreed in arbitration with Muawiyah, the khawarij thought that Ali (a.s) was forsaking his 'divine right to rule' by agreeing in arbitration, by their reasoning Ali (a.s) became a kuffar for agreeing with the arbitration because he forsake his right. They hated all those who opposed Ali (a.s) as much as you and Ali (a.s) could have crushed Muawiyah if he pushed forward to battle.

Didn't Imam Ali knew that this would happen. He was knowing everything but since it was a test for those who rejected and also to unveil the status of so called Muslims at that time, Imam had to take them with him.

If you killed one believer, as if you killed the entire Humanity. 

So if Talha was there leading the army and that led to chaos and killing of many Momeneens then better you think what sins he took with him when he died. And those sins were Public!

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Just now, Waseem162 said:

Didn't Imam Ali knew that this would happen. He was knowing everything but since it was a test for those who rejected and also to unveil the status of so called Muslims at that time, Imam had to take them with him.

If you killed one believer, as if you killed the entire Humanity. 

So if Talha was there leading the army and that led to chaos and killing of many Momeneens then better you think what sins he took with him when he died. And those sins were Public!

So you're better then Talhah?

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Just now, SunniBrother said:

So the Prophet (s.a.w.s) gave his entire life for Ali (a.s)? Wasn't it calling to Allah? I don't know what you think about what I think about Ali (a.s). Sure he was above everyone else, he just wasn't the only one important.

For God's sake, Why you take everyone so twisted. Have you got any pre conceived notions regarding us ??  Not for Imam ALi (a.s) but For Islam!! Prophet(s) gave his entire life for Islam and Imam ALi(a.s) at battle of Jamal was guarding Islam.

Those who were against him were destroying what Prophet(S) gave his life for.

Also you know those Hadeeths that those who fights with you O Ali is a Hypocrite. None fights you but a Hypocrite.

Those who are in war with you,  I'm in war with them. Your blood is my blood. Your flesh is my flesh. Those who angered you angered me and thus Angered Allah.

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9 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Jesus Christ (a.s). Can't you be more neutral? Why all this hate for everyone? Can't you see good in him? You forget that the Khawarij where from the party of Ali (a.s) when he agreed in arbitration with Muawiyah, the khawarij thought that Ali (a.s) was forsaking his 'divine right to rule' by agreeing in arbitration, by their reasoning Ali (a.s) became a kuffar for agreeing with the arbitration because he forsake his right. They hated all those who opposed Ali (a.s) as much as you and Ali (a.s) could have crushed Muawiyah if he pushed forward to battle.

Brother, next you will want me to be neutral about Karbala.

There was a battle. One side was wrong, one side was right. 

We will always choose the side Imam Ali is on because haq is with Ali (as). 

We haven't forgotten the Khawarij. They went against Imam Ali (as) and as such they were wrong.

Neutrality is out of the question. You are either with Imam Ali or you are not.

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5 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So the Prophet (s.a.w.s) gave his entire life for Ali (a.s)? Wasn't it calling to Allah? I don't know what you think about what I think about Ali (a.s). Sure he was above everyone else, he just wasn't the only one important.

The Prophet (saw) gave his entire life for Islam. Imam Ali and his entire family sacrificed their lives for the Prophet and Islam.

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5 hours ago, SunniBrother said:

Talhah distinguished himself at the Battle of Uhud by keeping close to Muhammad while most of the Muslim army fled. He protected Muhammad's face from an arrow by taking the shot in his own hand, as a result of which two of his fingers were paralysed. He was also hit twice in the head, and it was said that he suffered a total of 75 wounds in the battle.

The Battle of the Camel was fought between Ali on one side and Aisha, Talhah and Zubayr on the other on 10 December 656. During the battle, Marwan ibn al-Hakam, who was fighting on the same side, accidentally shot Talhah in the thigh. Marwan commented, "After this I will never again seek a killer of Uthman." Talhah hugged his horse and galloped off the battle-field. He lay down using a stone as a pillow, while the auxiliaries tried to staunch the blood-flow. Whenever they stopped pressing, the bleeding resumed. In the end Talhah said, "Stop it. This is an arrow sent by God." He died of this injury, aged 64.

Non of us here can give any judgement. That lies with Allah.

Yes Talha was sahabi. And faught for Allah and Islam. But this is also true he was source of battle of camal that led death of thousands of Muslims. 

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4 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So you're better then Talhah?

By going Personal, one would get nothing. This sort of analogy is waste. By your analogy you are trying to say that since all of us have not protected Prophet(s), we all are below Talha and that I disagree with. We were also not responsible for Battle of Jamal.

Just know one thing, We are not pointing to any Sahaba but we are just presenting facts recorded in numerous reliable books of History of Islam and we are learning from what happened. Distinguishing Sahabas who were not so worthy overall to those who were best.

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Just now, Waseem162 said:

For God's sake, Why you take everyone so twisted. Have you got any pre conceived notions regarding us ??  Not for Imam ALi (a.s) but For Islam!! Prophet(s) gave his entire life for Islam and Imam ALi(a.s) at battle of Jamal was guarding Islam.

Those who were against him were destroying what Prophet(S) gave his life for.

Also you know those Hadeeths that those who fights with you O Ali is a Hypocrite. None fights you but a Hypocrite.

Those who are in war with you,  I'm in war with them. Your blood is my blood. Your flesh is my flesh. Those who angered you angered me and thus Angered Allah.

I am against them for the time they where against Ali (a.s) and I am in favor of them for as long as they where in favor of Muhammad (s.a.w.s). And may Allah forgive their mistakes. They where given a honor above us by being born in the same Age as Muhammad (s.a.w.s). We are merely shadows of them. Had Allah wanted us above them he would had made us born at the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.s)

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Just now, SunniBrother said:

I am against them for the time they where against Ali (a.s) and I am in favor of them for as long as they where in favor of Muhammad (s.a.w.s). And may Allah forgive their mistakes. They where given a honor above us by being born in the same Age as Muhammad (s.a.w.s). We are merely shadows of them. Had Allah wanted us above them he would had made us born at the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.s)

Your art of analogy is disastrous.

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Brother @SunniBrother:

The Sunni logic of both sides in Jamal were right does not make any sense. It's like saying a murderer and his victim are both right. 

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you admit one side was wrong in Jamal, then you will have to admit one side after the demise of the Prophet was also wrong. 

So the Sunni solution is to not take any sides and praise everyone. Doesn't work brother.

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Just now, shiaman14 said:

Brother @SunniBrother:

The Sunni logic of both sides in Jamal were right does not make any sense. It's like saying a murderer and his victim are both right. 

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you admit one side was wrong in Jamal, then you will have to admit one side after the demise of the Prophet was also wrong. 

So the Sunni solution is to not take any sides and praise everyone. Doesn't work brother.

Ali (a.s) was on haq on Jamal. We just stop there. We do not take off the merits of them that was before that.

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8 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I am against them for the time they where against Ali (a.s) and I am in favor of them for as long as they where in favor of Muhammad (s.a.w.s). And may Allah forgive their mistakes. They where given a honor above us by being born in the same Age as Muhammad (s.a.w.s). We are merely shadows of them. Had Allah wanted us above them he would had made us born at the time of the Prophet (s.a.w.s)

I guess with this logic, people like Abu Sugiyama and Marwan bin Hakam were also honorable people.

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3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

I guess with this logic, people like Abu Sugiyama and Marwan bin Hakam were also honorable people.

I don't know. I ask you, Marwan shot Talhah, and he was from the party of Ali (a.s). He married Yazid widow and was a Umayyad caliph. So he sided with Ali (a.s) in Jamal, is he good for shias? Maybe he did good shooting Talhah? No ideas

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41 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

So Ali (a.s) is above Muhammad (s.a.w.s)?

Above hadith doesn't indicate Ali is above Prophet puh. But it indicates one who rejects truth despite knowing it is more blame worthy than those who do not know and reject. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Above hadith doesn't indicate Ali is above Prophet puh. But it indicates one who rejects truth despite knowing it is more blame worthy than those who do not know and reject. 

I don't see any indication of Talhah denying Allah (?) He clearly said that the arrow was sent by Allah.

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16 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I don't know. I ask you, Marwan shot Talhah, and he was from the party of Ali (a.s). He married Yazid widow and was a Umayyad caliph. So he sided with Ali (a.s) in Jamal, is he good for shias? Maybe he did good shooting Talhah? No ideas

Marwan didn't shoot Talha because Marwan was on Imam Ali (as) side. He shot Talha before Talha could have left the Battle. That is exactly what Marwan did with Zubayr.

Feigning ignorance doesn't work brother.

 

Edited by shiaman14

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16 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I don't see any indication of Talhah denying Allah (?) He clearly said that the arrow was sent by Allah.

May be. I do not judge Talha. Nor I have right. 

But yes he was one of source of battle of camal that led to death of thousands of Muslims. 

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