Jump to content
MuslimahAK

Understanding Muharram and 'Ashura

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr. I did not say that Shia have forgot everything. But I said that Shia have limited imam Hussain to only mourning. 

Definitely there are some great shia scholars we try to teach people real message of karbala. And it is not my view rather shia scholars. 

And I never opposed mourning. But yes give primary importance to why imam gave sacrifice. 

Definitely not for source of mourning for shias. 

You fail to understand the importance of azadari and mourning for Hussain so you trivialize it. Or you fully understand its importance and trivialize  it.

The institute of azadari instills a deep love and understanding for the AhlulBayt which brings us closer to Islam and Allah. But you probably know that - that is why you disparage it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Our salvation depends on the remembrance of Karbala. 

Karbala was not Hussain vs. Yazeed. It was really about "one like Hussain" vs "one like Yazeed". So to this day, we remind the world about the eternal battle of Haq vs Batil and it was epitomized in Karbala.

Right. So Karbala is not limited to chest beating and blood letting. It is light years beyond that. The problem is that we have created such a dogmatic illustration of Karbala that outsiders only see our wicked barbaric rituals when it comes to it. Also, some people only care to protect their rituals instead of the actual message of Karbala. Karbala is not safeguarded by these rituals as some may perceive. Rather it is these practices and rituals which keep millions away from ever getting a quench of Imam Husain (as).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

How is this acheived? ISIS style?

If the mourning over Imam Hussain (as) all over the world among the 200+ million shias leads just ONE PERSON on the right part, it is totally worth it.  

Those who want bring others to right path. Let them first be on right path taught by imam Hussain as. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

You fail to understand the importance of azadari and mourning for Hussain so you trivialize it. Or you fully understand its importance and trivialize  it.

The institute of azadari instills a deep love and understanding for the AhlulBayt which brings us closer to Islam and Allah. But you probably know that - that is why you disparage it.

 

You are free to do Azadari of Imam Hussain with more love and belief. 

But do not change or blur  message of Imam Hussain of guiding people and do not limit it to Azadari. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, islam25 said:

Those who want bring others to right path. Let them first be on right path taught by imam Hussain as. 

so all the people who commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) are not on the right path. All of them?

3 hours ago, islam25 said:

You are free to do Azadari of Imam Hussain with more love and belief. 

But do not change or blur  message of Imam Hussain of guiding people and do not limit it to Azadari. 

I havent seen anyone blur the message of Imam Hussain (as). You need to hand around better people brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MuslimahAK said:

@islam25 what is it that you feel is the true message of Karba'la and Imam Hussain (as)? Can you please explain more. 

Also, what is Azadari?

Azadari = mourning for Imam Hussain (as).

The true message of Karbala is different for each person. To me, it is the age-old strugggle of haqq (righteousness) over batil (wrong). From the time of Adam's sons until now, batil has always tried to eliminate haqq for a variety of reasons. This was epitomized in Karbala.

It also shows us how to maintain steadfastness in faith - refusal to bow down to evil.

I could go on and on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muharrum as well as Safar are the months specific for remembering the tragedy of Karbala, the sufferings of Ahlul Bayt (a.s)

18th Dhulhajja was the day of perfection of Islam (alyouma akmalto lakum deenokum), 10th Muharram was the day of protection of Islam.  

This is the month of "Zibhe Azeem":

Surah As-Saaffat, Verse 107:

وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيمٍ

And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.

(English - Shakir)

Those who have offered the sacrifices of their lives & their belongings, were the beloved of Allah, His Apostle (pbuh), Amirul Momineen (a.s) & Syeda Fatima (s.a). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, islam25 said:

Mr. I did not say that Shia have forgot everything. But I said that Shia have limited imam Hussain to only mourning. 

Definitely there are some great shia scholars we try to teach people real message of karbala. And it is not my view rather shia scholars. 

And I never opposed mourning. But yes give primary importance to why imam gave sacrifice. 

Definitely not for source of mourning for shias. 

Well bro, It is Ayotullah who can criticize us but we cannot. Because Prophet PBUHHP said: "Before criticizing any other look in yourself if you do not possess that thing for which you are criticizing other". 

Since we both, you and me are involved in this sin not to have applied full principles of Imam Hussain a.s so why should we accuse others ? Let us first be like that and if you then feel then you can do that Like Agha Hasan Nasarullah and Ayotullah Rohullah Khomeini. 

If you have not done anything like that then according to Prophet PBUHHP you lack that qualification bro. 

who knows that many Shias are above you who mourn and you are also alleging them without understanding that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

@islam25 what is it that you feel is the true message of Karba'la and Imam Hussain (as)? Can you please explain more. 

Also, what is Azadari?

Sacrifice what ever one has for Allah. 

Azadari remembering imam Hussain expression of grief and follow the Imam Hussain as .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

so all the people who commemorate the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as) are not on the right path. All of them?

I havent seen anyone blur the message of Imam Hussain (as). You need to hand around better people brother.

Have read the book of Allama Muttahari on Karba'la. Hope that will answer you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

What is Zibhe Azeem? What Argha? Sorry I'm still fairly new and don't understand many things. 

 

6 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

This is the month of "Zibhe Azeem":

Surah As-Saaffat, Verse 107:

وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيمٍ

And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.

(English - Shakir)

In verse 107 the sacrifice with which Ismail was ransomed is described as great by Allah, therefore it must be great in absolute degree. An ordinary ram by no means, in any sense whatsoever, can be termed as great; moreover under no circumstances a ram can be greater than Ismail son of Ibrahim, both the most distinguished prophets of Allah, in whose progeny Allah had appointed His divinely commissioned Imams (see commentary of Baqarah : 124). The ransom, therefore, is essentially a great sacrifice Allah had kept in store for future when the religion of Allah would be perfected and completed after the advent of the Holy Prophet.

It was indeed a great and momentous occasion when two men of God stood ready to offer to Allah that which was dearest to them to seek His pleasure, then Allah puts off this great manifestation of "devotion and surrender to His will" which was the real purpose of the trial (not blood and flesh) to a future date, so that the "devotion and surrender to Allah's will" should be demonstrated in a greater style and degree than what Ibrahim and Ismail could. This type of service Imam Husayn performed, many ages later, in 60 A.H., and as he was a descendant of Ibrahim and Ismail the credit of "the great sacrifice" goes to them also. For the great sacrifice of Imam Husayn read the biography of Imam Husayn published by our Trust, a close study of which makes clear that his sacrifice has been rightly mentioned as dhibhin azim in this verse.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Shah Wali-ullah, in Sirrush Shahadaytan, and many other well known authors of traditions and history have accepted the fact that dhibhin azim refers to the sacrifice of Imam Husayn.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MuslimahAK said:

Sorry I'm still fairly new and don't understand many things. 

No need to apologize sister. We are all students here and need to learn from each other.

The message of Karbala transcends time and culture. Each year, it is observed with more rigor and fervor - to the dismay of many and to the delight of many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, islam25 said:

Have read the book of Allama Muttahari on Karba'la. Hope that will answer you.

I am sure this book has a name...

I guess you probably have a book with a list of a thousand things one can do instead of azadari. Share it's name too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

You need to read Islamic History. If you dont have so much time or access to books, do attend the majalis in Muharrum.

I live in Alaska. And there's a good Salafi community here. Along with everyone else. To my knowledge, there aren't enough Shi'a to organise a majalis. Or to even have a Shi'a gathering of any sort what so ever. I only know of two other Shi'a. One is my husband's friend in Fairbanks, and another one if his friends. None are really knowledgable, and all of us are new to it. And isolated from a bigger community. 

Which is kind of funny, because the big Masjid that was built here, just recently started making khutbas, specifically against Shi'a. And no one here has really, really done that before. Its mostly been, nonono, shi'as are bad. etc, etc. 

But anyways, I'm sure I can find a majalis maybe from Hussein 3 tv on youtube. InshaAllah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am sure this book has a name...

I guess you probably have a book with a list of a thousand things one can do instead of azadari. Share it's name too.

The name book is" Hamase Hussaini " by Allama Muttahari. Definitely it will clear the vision about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. Then one will understand real meaning  anf casuse of martyrdom and what is Azadari. 

And one will come to know what message and lesson for Ummah to learn from sacrifice of Imam Hussain. 

Edited by islam25

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MuslimahAK said:

But anyways, I'm sure I can find a majalis maybe from Hussein 3 tv on youtube. InshaAllah

:) Yes, along with that you can read Islamic History as well as tafseer of Quran at the www.al-islam.org

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

I am sure this book has a name...

I guess you probably have a book with a list of a thousand things one can do instead of azadari. Share it's name too.

I have a feeling you have a limited view of Azadari. Azadari to you is basically whatever the Safavids innovated. Nothing more, nothing less.

You should come to terms with the fact that azadari has changed over time and will continue to change.

But I agree, read that book :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, islam25 said:

The name book is" Hamase Hussaini " by Allama Muttahari. Definitely it will clear the vision about the martyrdom of Imam Hussain. Then one will understand real meaning  anf casuse of martyrdom and what is Azadari. 

And one will come to know what message and lesson for Ummah to learn from sacrifice of Imam Hussain. 

You mean this book:

https://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/vol13-no3/ashura-misrepresentations-distortions-part-1-mutahhari

My vision is pretty clear and I have read this book.

Still doesn't explain your stance.

13 hours ago, 786:) said:

I have a feeling you have a limited view of Azadari. Azadari to you is basically whatever the Safavids innovated. Nothing more, nothing less.

You should come to terms with the fact that azadari has changed over time and will continue to change.

But I agree, read that book :)

Since we being so open and brotherly, my feeling is that you are one of those shias who stands on the sidelines criticizing everything and everyone related to azadari because you have read a book.

Should we discuss more feelings or deal in facts. Explain to me my view of azadari and then enlighten me with yours.

I will even help you explain my feelings to me by starting of with, "ShiaMan14 believes that our marajae and azadari are the most important institutions for the Shia today and the primary reasons why shiaism and shias are thriving today."

Now start expanding my view.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

You mean this book:

https://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/vol13-no3/ashura-misrepresentations-distortions-part-1-mutahhari

My vision is pretty clear and I have read this book.

Still doesn't explain your stance.

Since we being so open and brotherly, my feeling is that you are one of those shias who stands on the sidelines criticizing everything and everyone related to azadari because you have read a book.

Should we discuss more feelings or deal in facts. Explain to me my view of azadari and then enlighten me with yours.

I will even help you explain my feelings to me by starting of with, "ShiaMan14 believes that our marajae and azadari are the most important institutions for the Shia today and the primary reasons why shiaism and shias are thriving today."

Now start expanding my view.

Mr . Problem with you is that you misinterpret what I say.

In non of comments I opposed the Azadari. Yes the way some shia present the martyrdom gives miss information. 

Even non muslim scholars and thinkers have learned great lessons and message from karbala. But some shia limit karbala only to mourning forgetting the real messages is unfortunate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

You mean this book:

https://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/vol13-no3/ashura-misrepresentations-distortions-part-1-mutahhari

My vision is pretty clear and I have read this book.

Still doesn't explain your stance.

Since we being so open and brotherly, my feeling is that you are one of those shias who stands on the sidelines criticizing everything and everyone related to azadari because you have read a book.

Should we discuss more feelings or deal in facts. Explain to me my view of azadari and then enlighten me with yours.

I will even help you explain my feelings to me by starting of with, "ShiaMan14 believes that our marajae and azadari are the most important institutions for the Shia today and the primary reasons why shiaism and shias are thriving today."

Now start expanding my view.

Of course you see azadari as the pinnacle of Islam. That view by the majority is what has led us to this black hole. You think Shias are thriving? You must be delusional. When you search Shia Muslim or Shia Islam, nothing but horrifying images pop up. Hence, I respectfully, yet strongly disagree with that notion that azadari is the most importion aspect of Islam.

Imam Hussain did not sacrifice his life so a sect would be created in his honor. Quran condemns sects as a matter of fact. As well as sahih traditions of the Holy Prophet (saw) and Imam Ali (as). What Imam Hussain (as) did want was the ummah to unite under his banner. When you say that azadari is the most important function of Islam, that is doing nothing but creating divisions. 

You know there is no base to that, except purely emotions and maybe some random Hadith from Bihar ul Anwar. If you were to ask Imam Hussain, what is the most important function of Islam, I guarantee he would say tawheed, as he was one of the best slaves of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 786:) said:

You know there is no base to that, except purely emotions and maybe some random Hadith from Bihar ul Anwar. If you were to ask Imam Hussain, what is the most important function of Islam, I guarantee he would say tawheed, as he was one of the best slaves of Allah

Without putting any limit to the importance of Touheed, I think the most important function is Vilayat. And here is the daleel:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 55:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ

Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 56:

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ

And whoever takes Allah and His apostle and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.

(English - Shakir)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Without putting any limit to the importance of Touheed, I think the most important function is Vilayat. And here is the daleel:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 55:

إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ

Only Allah is your Vali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 56:

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ

And whoever takes Allah and His apostle and those who believe for a guardian, then surely the party of Allah are they that shall be triumphant.

(English - Shakir)

I can bring you clearer verses that triumph that. But you will not accept them because you already have a preconcieved idea of you want to beleive. Anyhow, I do not believe wilayat or azadari are anywhere near tawheed. Just open up the holy book every day. Each page the idea of tawheed jumps out at you. You cannot say the same about any other function. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • (2:94) Say to them, "If the abode of the Hereafter with Allah is exclusively reserved for you and not for the rest of mankind, then you should long for death, if you arc sincere in your claim."   If you are sincere then there's no problem in killing you Shia. Embrace the hereafter.
    • Hello brothers and sisters. I feel like I am in dire need of help. My hatred and the feeling of jealously towards my relatives and slowly now, towards others are increasing. I have lived a lonely difficult life, where I wasn't allowed to communicate with others much. Wasn't allowed to go out much. Basically say at home alone most of the time. I watch my cousins get everything they want. I'm not jealous over this but, the fact they travel a lot. Something I've never done. I wish to go to hajj and I wish to go to Iraq especially, so I can meet my grandfather. My grandmother passed away, so I never had a chance to meet her. I had a chance to go to Iraq this year, excited to meet my grandfather. I was meant to go with my relatives, but they had secretly planned everything, excluding me out. Which made me sad, as I know they are not fans of Iraq, where as I love the beauty and the history of Iraq. Even though I've never been, I know in my heart that its a unique place. My one chance is gone, I'm afraid I've lost my chance to meet my grandfather as I heard he is sick. I can't go unless for another five years. Which breaks my heart, and now I have tried to push away these negative feelings I've had for them. But now its just, worse. I can't help but think bad thoughts. I just don't want my heart to turn dark, as I've retreated myself from communication towards others and stopped caring for everyone as I'm continuously being betrayed occasionally. I don't really have anyone a around me to teach me or help me Islamically. I'm trying hard to be patient and humble and forgiving and kind. I'm losing that side of me. But I'm so alone. I'm reading the Quran and hadith's, but I'm not sure as to what I should be reading. There are other things before that triggered all of this, but I'll end up writing a book on here. I would appreciate anything. Please and thank you. 
    • I didn't include the chain in english, sorry. دَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الْبَرْقِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي هَاشِمٍ دَاوُدَ بْنِ الْقَاسِمِ الْجَعْفَرِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ الثَّانِي A group from our companions, from Ahmad bin Muhammad al-Barqi, from Abi Hashim Dawud bin Qasim al-Ja'fari, from Abi Ja'far the second (al-Jawad (as)) Yes Sunni laymen are innocent, however their "respected figures," are not.
    • Guest solvethis
      JazakAllah for your kind answer, i appreciate it.But i dont wear ethnic clothing.JazakAllah for your kind words
    • I'm so sorry. Can it still be operable?  She is in my prayers
×