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hoskot

No Sahabi asked "Who are these Ulil Amri?".

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1 minute ago, Faruk said:

But you do believe that killing them is the opposite of sending blessings upon them a.s. do you?

what? i dont understand you. the opposite of sending blessings is Not sending blessings. where does killing come into the opposite?

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1 hour ago, hoskot said:

[Shakir 8:20] O you who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger and do not turn back from Him while you hear.

2 entities 1 OBEY command

[Shakir 47:33] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and do not make your deeds of no effect.

2 entities 2 OBEY commands

[Shakir 4:80] Whoever obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys Allah,

so essentially, the Quran is telling us, it's immaterial whether the number of entities = number of the verb OBEY.

hence the need to obey ulil-amri, just as we need to obey the prophet.

the argument for the need of a separate OBEY for ulil amri in verse 4:59 for it to be unconditional obedience, is null and VOID, IMO.

this is only for those who seek the truth.

for the rest of us, "fastabiqul khoiraat...."

wassalam.

 

again. i already responded to this claim in a 3 point answer. none of these references have a case of disagreement or ulil amr or returning to Allah and messenger.

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3 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

what? i dont understand you. the opposite of sending blessings is Not sending blessings. where does killing come into the opposite?

Can I send blessings on a certain people in every obligatory prayer and yet curse them all or kill one of them?

Edited by Faruk

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Just now, just a muslim said:

technically, you may if you want to. you have free will. 

But is is it right/logical?

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Just now, just a muslim said:

technically, you may if you want to. you have free will. 

But is is it right/logical?

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1 minute ago, just a muslim said:

no. what's your point btw?

Then how can you consider Yazid to be your Imam, Khalifa or Amir, King or whatever?

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Then how can you consider Yazid to be your Imam, Khalifa or Amir?

lol, i dont. even though the two dont have any connection. i have already said yazid was a king. not a khalifa/amirul mo'mineen

Edited by just a muslim
connection*

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2 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

lol, i dont. even though the two dont have any connection. i have already said yazid was a king. not a khalifa/amirul mo'mineen

Yes it is well-known fact that your usage of the term Imam is not Quranic but only reffering to scholarship.

Even though you call someone a king it is about leadership after all. So I may conclude he was a king but not your king?

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21 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Yes it is well-known fact that your usage of the term Imam is not Quranic but only reffering to scholarship.

Even though you call someone a king it is about leadership after all. So I may conclude he was a king but not your king?

him being a king is a fact. would you disagree with that? 

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2 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

him being a king is a fact. would you disagree with that? 

He was a king but was he your king?

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5 hours ago, just a muslim said:

how can he be my king? he was at that time. i am at this time. 

I know but would you accept him as your king if you'd live at that time just as you would accept Abu Bakr as your caliph in his time?

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salam bro/sis

i believe, debating will in most cases, harden the heart and may create enmity. i do not wish that to happen, on my account.

i would like to conclude this thread with:

suffice to say, for those who seek the truth

It is narrated from Jabir Ibne Abdullah Ansari that he said:

When the Almighty Allah revealed the following verse on His Prophet:

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger and those possessing authority among you.”

I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah! We know Allah and His Messenger. But who are the possessors of authority whose obedience Allah has accompanied with your obedience?’ He (S) explained, “They are my caliphs, O Jabir, and the Imams of the Muslims after me..........".

It is narrated from Abu Baseer that His Eminence, Abu Ja’far Baqir (as) said regarding the statement of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime:

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger and those possessing authority among you.”

Imams from the progeny of Ali and Fatima (as) till the day of Qiyamat.”

It is narrated from His Eminence, Abu Abdillah Sadiq (as) that he said regarding the statement of the Almighty Allah:

“O ye who believe! Obey Allah and obey the messenger and those possessing authority among you.

It is especially mentioned about us…”

source: https://www.al-islam.org/mikyalul-makarim-fee-fawaaid-ad-duaa-lil-qaim-vol-1/64-obedience-ulil-amr-those-authority

for those bro/sis who think he/she is already on the straight path, let's race to good deeds. To Allah we all we will return and He will let us know that in which we differed.

[Shakir 5:48] And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

ps: bro justAmuslim, sorry if i offended u in any way.

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