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No Sahabi asked "Who are these Ulil Amri?".

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we read,

[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon.

[Shakir 2:215] They ask you as to what they should spend.

[Shakir 2:222] And they ask you about menstruation.

[Shakir 8:1] They ask you about the windfalls

meaning sahabi asked many things as proved by the above verses.

when it comes to quranic verse

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

we  find none in sunni hadith collection, sahabi asking "who are these ulil amri?".

any logical explanation for it?

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7 hours ago, hoskot said:

we read,

[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon.

[Shakir 2:215] They ask you as to what they should spend.

[Shakir 2:222] And they ask you about menstruation.

[Shakir 8:1] They ask you about the windfalls

meaning sahabi asked many things as proved by the above verses.

when it comes to quranic verse

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

we  find none in sunni hadith collection, sahabi asking "who are these ulil amri?".

any logical explanation for it?

If Prophet PBUHHP has already mentioned it in Hadith then there is no need if Shahaba asked it or not. It is mentioned in Sahih Bukhari that Prophet said there will be twelve caliphs after me.

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7 hours ago, hoskot said:

we read,

[Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon.

[Shakir 2:215] They ask you as to what they should spend.

[Shakir 2:222] And they ask you about menstruation.

[Shakir 8:1] They ask you about the windfalls

meaning sahabi asked many things as proved by the above verses.

when it comes to quranic verse

[Shakir 4:59] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

we  find none in sunni hadith collection, sahabi asking "who are these ulil amri?".

any logical explanation for it?

And it's obvious that we have to follow those twelve after Prophet PBUHHP that's why they were called caliphs. And those are Ulil Amr. Men with authority after Prophet PBUHHP.

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9 hours ago, hoskot said:

any logical explanation for it?

Actually Sahaba did not ask the Prophet about lots of things.

For example, they did not ask him about [42:23], which says "I do not ask of you any reward except love for relatives."

The Quran dos not say whose relatives -   my relatives / your relatives / the relatives of other Muslims?

The relative pronoun is missing in the Quran.

This is just one example.

 

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2 hours ago, baqar said:

Actually Sahaba did not ask the Prophet about lots of things.

For example, they did not ask him about [42:23], which says "I do not ask of you any reward except love for relatives."

The Quran dos not say whose relatives -   my relatives / your relatives / the relatives of other Muslims?

The relative pronoun is missing in the Quran.

This is just one example.

 

bro, u miss my point.

they did ask about anfal, menstruation, etc etc...but not ulil amri whose obedience is attached to the obedience of Rasulullah saww? anyhow, i would like to know from sunni bros' perspective, why no such hadith is recorded in sunni hadith collection. is it because ulil amri was so obvious to sahaba's understanding? if so, why so many differing meanings today?

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salam bro/sis

i'm not trying to belittle any1's belief system.

i'm not even a shia (not qualified to be one) though i belief in the 12 imams (as) and imam ali (as) is the rightful successor. don't ask me why pls.

i'm just trying to get an understanding of other people's view.

personally, i believe, companions did asked but none were recorded since any narrations supporting shia's faith, were rejected by imam hadith from sunni community.

some people say companions had clear understanding of who these ulil amri were, so no question was asked. this is quite difficult for me to digest since ulil amri is more weightier than anfal/mestruation/new moon/etc, etc.

care sharing ur thoughts on this?

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is it far from truth to say that the umayyad and the abbasiyyah forbade the propagation of narrations relating companions asking who are these ulil amri?

is this the strongest argument available for me to win over my family to seek guidance from Ahlul Bayt, after Rasulullah saww?

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"Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger)."

The command to obey is infinite-total obedience in all material, religious and spiritual matters, therefore, as this verse clearly signifies, the ulil amr must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet are, and he who - administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom).

In Surah Maida Ayat No. 55 Allah Says

[Pickthal 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

All the commentators unanimously hold, as Qushaji admits in the Sharh al Tajrid on the subject of imamat, that this verse refers to Ali when he gave his ring to a beggar while bowing down in the course of his prayers. Nasa-i has also recorded this tradition in his Sahihah al Nasa-i, and so has the author of Al Jama Bayn al Sihah al Sittah (corroboration of the six authentic books) in discussion of the commentary on al Ma-idah, and so does Tha-labi in his Tafsir Kabir, and al Balakhi in his Yanabi has copied it from Ahmad bin Hanbal's Musnad, vol. 5, margin of p. 38. Please refer to the commentary on this verse in Wahidi's book Asbab al Nuzul (the circumstances of descent) which contains the tradition related by Ibn Abbas. Al Khatib has recorded the tradition in Al Muttafiq, and Ibn Marduwayh and Abu Shaykh in their Musnads. It is mentioned in Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 391, tradition no. 5991. In Ghayah al Maram, chapter 18, there are twenty four traditions from sources other than the Ahl ul Bayt, all supporting the above statement about the descent of this verse.

When Abi Ishaq Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Naysaburi al Tha-labi reached this verse he recorded the following in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari, who said "Both of my ears may turn deaf and both my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Holy Prophet saying, 'Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. He who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken'. One day I said my prayers in the company of the Holy Prophet; a beggar came to the masjid and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of ruku in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who approached him and removed the ring from his finger. Thereupon the Holy Prophet implored Allah, saying: 'O Allah! My brother Musa begged You saying: My Lord, delight my heart and make my task easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand me, and appoint from among my kinsmen, Harun, my brother, as my vizier, and strengthen my back with him and make him participate in my mission so that we may glorify You and remember You more frequently. Certainly You see us-and You inspired him: O Musa! All your requests have been granted. (The Holy Prophet continued) Delight my heart and make my task easy and appoint from among my kinsmen Ali as my vizier and strengthen my back with him'. (Abu Dhar proceeds) By Allah, the Holy Prophet had not yet finished his supplication when the trustworthy Jibril descended to him with this verse". (Ibn Khallikan says that Al Tha-labi was unique as a commentator of the Quran and his Tafsir al Kabir is superior to all other Tafsirs).

In this verse the word wali has been used in the meaning of guardian or master or who holds authority superior to others. Please refer to the origin of the word wali in Sihah or Mukhtar al Sihah or any other good dictionary. The lexicographers have explained that he who manages the affairs of and exercises authority for another person is the wali of that person. This verse, therefore, means that those who manage the affairs of the people (mankind) are superior to all men, and certainly they are Allah, His messenger, the Holy Prophet, and Ali, who possesses all the qualifications enumerated in this verse. Allah has simultaneously confirmed His wilayah (superior authority), that of His prophet and his wali (Ali) in unbroken succession. Allah's wilayah is universal, so likewise, the wilayah of the Holy Prophet and his wali (Ali) must be so. It is not possible to assign to the word wali in this verse the meaning of a helper or a friend, etcetera, for help and friendship are not confined to these three only. All the faithful men and women, according to the holy book, are friends and helpers of one another. It is as obvious as can be that the word wali in this verse means, guardian, ruler, possessor of superior authority. It is in this sense that the word wali has been used by the Holy Prophet in the abovenoted tradition related by Al Tha-labi in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari whom the Holy Prophet had given the title of siddiq (the truthful). There are other authentic traditions, given below, in which the word wali indicates its true meaning:

(i) Abu Dawud al Tayalisi has recorded in Isti-ab on the authority of Ibn Abbas, who said: "The Holy Prophet said to Ali, 'You are the master (wali) of the faithful after me'."

(ii) After an expedition, under the command of Ali, some of the men, who went with him, complained to the Holy Prophet about Ali's refusal to oblige them favourably. The Holy Prophet turned to them with signs of displeasure on his face and said: "What do you want to do to Ali? Surely Ali is from me and I am from him, and after me he is the master (wali) of all the faithful."

Nasa-i has recorded it in his Khasa-is al Alawiyyah, p. 17, Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 4, p. 438; Hakim in Mustadrak, vol. 11, p. 11; Al Dhahabi in his Talkhis al Mustadrak; Ibn Shaybah and Jarir both have recorded it from whom Muttaqi of India has copied it in his Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 400; Tirmidhi has recorded it from Asqalani, mentioned in his account of Ali in his Isabah; Ibn Hadid has copied it from Tirmidhi in his Sharh al Nahj al Balagha, vol. 2, p. 450.

(iii) The Holy Prophet said to Buraydah:

"Am I not a more privileged master (mawla or wali) of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves? Ali is the master (wali or mawla) of those who believe me to be their master."

Ahmad ibn Hanbal has recorded it in his Musnad, vol. 5, p. 356, Hakim has recorded it in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 110, besides many other traditionists.

(iv) The Holy Prophet said:

"O Ali! After me you are the master of all the faithful."

Hakim has recorded this tradition as reported by Ibn Abbas in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 134; and Dhahabi in his Talkhis; Nasa-i in Khasa-is al Alawiyyah p. 6; Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad vol. 1, p. 331.

"Ali is your wali after me", means that Ali and none else will be the master of the faithful after the Holy Prophet. It confines in Ali the authority to manage the affairs of the ummah after him. It is, therefore, necessary to attach the same meaning to the word wali and to understand it in the same sense as has been pointed out above. Help, affection, love, friendship are not confined to any one person. All faithful men and women love and are friends of one another. If the meaning of wali is taken as helper or friend, then why the Holy Prophet took so much interest in, and attached so much importance to, clarifying emphatically what was obvious and evident, so as to repeat the declaration off and on? His perfect wisdom, his thorough impeccability and termination with him of the prophethood make him far above the indulgence of explaining the self-evident, emphasising the obvious and making unnecessary repetitions. Besides, the traditions lay down clearly that Ali is or will be master of the nation after the Holy Prophet, and this makes it all the more necessary to understand the word wali in the same sense and fix for it the same meaning as has been stated above. The abovenoted traditionists, commentators and historians also deal with the word wali or mawla as the "more privileged master of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves."

"Those who believe" is in the plural form. How can it be applicable to an individual?

All the annotators, traditionists and historians agree that it was Na-im ibn Mas-ud al Ashja-i, whom Abu Sufyan gave ten camels for discouraging the Muslim, said to them: "Fear your enemies who have united against you and gathered in large numbers to attack you" (Ali Imran: 173), but in this verse "people said to them" (a plural form) has been used.

It was Ghawrath from the tribe of Banu Maharib, some scholars say, while others say that it was Umar ibn Jahash of the tribe of Banu Nadir, (a single man) single man) who drew out his sword to strike the Holy Prophet, but verse 11 of al Ma-idah describes it as "when a group of persons became so bold as to stretch their hands to you"-in plural form. Verse 120 of al Nahl says: "Ibrahim was certainly a people obedient to Allah".

There are plenty of other examples of using the plural form for an individual.

Tabrasi, while commenting on this verse in his Majma al Bayan, says: "The plural form has been used for Ali in order to express his glory and eminence ."

Zamakhshari, in his Tafsir al Kashshaf, says:

"If you inquire how this plural word is applicable to Ali, who is an individual, I shall say that though this verse is about Ali, an individual, the plural form is used in order to persuade others to act similarly and give alms as readily as Ali did."

The Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt have frequently referred to this verse as a proof of their rightful imamat and have assigned the same meaning to the word wali as we have stated.

The word innama makes the decision of Allah (that He, the Holy Prophet and Ali alone are the masters of the believers) final and decisive. The construction of the sentence and the word wali, used in singular for all the three, means that wilayah of all the three is essentially one in nature as well as in effect. Therefore, obedience to the Holy Prophet must be as it should be to Allah, and obedience to Ali and his successors (the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt) must be as it should be to the Holy Prophet.

Wa hum raki-un is an adverbial clause qualifying the manner in which the alms were given. If it is taken as a conjunctive clause, then yuqimunas salat or this clause becomes an unnecessary repetition.

In fact this verse points out the highest state of spiritual attainment-fully absorbed in witnessing the glory of the absolute Lord and at the same time alive to the needs of His servants so as to solve them at once to their full satisfaction- which alone entitles a man to be a master like the eternal master, the almighty Allah. The Quran a asserts this possibility for such a man, not for all the followers because they have been addressed in

second person (kum). The plural term "those who believe" is used to include the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt in the same way as has been done in verse 61 of Ali Imran (Mubahilah).

Please also refer to verse 67 of this surah for the event of Ghadir Khum where the Holy Prophet openly declared Ali as the wali or mawla of the faithfuls just as the Holy Prophet himself is. The entire Muslim nation is unanimous that when the verses of the Quran were collected they were not arranged in the same order in which they descended. There is many a verse occurring in an irrelevant context, for instance, the verse of purification, which occurs in the account of the wives of the Holy Prophet, but actually is in praise of the five persons of al kisa, as has been universally admitted. All Muslims are agreed that arguments are to be preferred to the context, and whenever the implication of the context was opposed to the implication of arguments they ignored the context and yielded to the arguments, because they were doubtful about the context in which a certain verse occurs.

[Pickthal 5:56] And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 5:56]

Whoever takes Allah, His messenger and "those who believe" (particularised in the preceding verse) as his master, joins Allah's party-only Allah's party will be successful in the end. This verse is in continuation of the preceding verse.

It is irrational and senseless to accept any ruler as ulil amr, otherwise men like Yazid bin Mu-awiya will have to be included in the category of ulil amr; and no sane person would say that Allah has enjoined to obey men like Yazid (prototypes of whom were and are many and in abundance since the departure of the Holy Prophet till today) just as one obeys Allah and the Holy Prophet.

From the event of ashira (feast of the near relatives to carry out the divine command of "warn your tribe of near relatives") to the day at Ghadir Khum, the Holy Prophet repeatedly announced the successorship of Ali, therefore, the first step a true Muslim must take to obey the messenger of Allah is to obey and follow Ali ibn abi Talib. Also refer to the "Right Path" and "Peshawar Nights", published by the Peermohammed Ebrahim Trust or Zahra Publications, because the issue of ulil amr and wali has been discussed in depth in these books with authentic references from the well-known books of tafsir (exegesis) and hadith (traditions) written by the Muslim scholars.

Today the Muslim ummah (from Indonesia to Morocco) is in a quandary, because the theoreticians who directly or indirectly served the interests of the despotic rulers, have presented "the obedience to ruler" (even if he is an usurper, a rogue or a ruffian) as a fundamental of religion (known as the theory of ghlu and ghalba-violence and conquest) by misinterpreting this verse. Such theoreticians are their Imams. There is no way leading to emancipation from terror and exploitation if this theory is not rightly rejected once and for all. It is not possible unless the sincere Muslims submit to the teachings of the Ahl ul Bayt.

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lets suppose for a second that these ulil amr were the 12 imams. okay. so what? do you not read the remaining part of the ayah? it says if you disagree in something, return it to Allah and the messenger pbuh.

and i think i know what youre gonna say. i heard ammar nakshawani's lecture on imamah. so, please, bring your answer. i have a response ready for that.

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18 hours ago, Aabiss_Shakari said:

"Obey Allah and obey the messenger and the ulil amr (those vested with authority through His messenger)."

The command to obey is infinite-total obedience in all material, religious and spiritual matters, therefore, as this verse clearly signifies, the ulil amr must also be as just, wise and merciful as Allah and the Holy Prophet are, and he who - administers the affairs of mankind should be the khalifatullah (vicegerent of Allah) and the waliallah (representative of Allah whom He chooses after equipping him with His wisdom).

In Surah Maida Ayat No. 55 Allah Says

[Pickthal 5:55] Your guardian can be only Allah; and His messenger and those who believe, who establish worship and pay the poordue, and bow down (in prayer).

All the commentators unanimously hold, as Qushaji admits in the Sharh al Tajrid on the subject of imamat, that this verse refers to Ali when he gave his ring to a beggar while bowing down in the course of his prayers. Nasa-i has also recorded this tradition in his Sahihah al Nasa-i, and so has the author of Al Jama Bayn al Sihah al Sittah (corroboration of the six authentic books) in discussion of the commentary on al Ma-idah, and so does Tha-labi in his Tafsir Kabir, and al Balakhi in his Yanabi has copied it from Ahmad bin Hanbal's Musnad, vol. 5, margin of p. 38. Please refer to the commentary on this verse in Wahidi's book Asbab al Nuzul (the circumstances of descent) which contains the tradition related by Ibn Abbas. Al Khatib has recorded the tradition in Al Muttafiq, and Ibn Marduwayh and Abu Shaykh in their Musnads. It is mentioned in Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 391, tradition no. 5991. In Ghayah al Maram, chapter 18, there are twenty four traditions from sources other than the Ahl ul Bayt, all supporting the above statement about the descent of this verse.

When Abi Ishaq Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Ibrahim Naysaburi al Tha-labi reached this verse he recorded the following in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari, who said "Both of my ears may turn deaf and both my eyes may become blind if I speak a lie. I heard the Holy Prophet saying, 'Ali is the guide of the righteous and the slayer of the infidels. He who has helped him is victorious and he who has abandoned him is forsaken'. One day I said my prayers in the company of the Holy Prophet; a beggar came to the masjid and begged for alms, but nobody gave him anything. Ali was in a state of ruku in the prayer. He pointed out his ring to the beggar, who approached him and removed the ring from his finger. Thereupon the Holy Prophet implored Allah, saying: 'O Allah! My brother Musa begged You saying: My Lord, delight my heart and make my task easy and undo the knot in my tongue so that they may understand me, and appoint from among my kinsmen, Harun, my brother, as my vizier, and strengthen my back with him and make him participate in my mission so that we may glorify You and remember You more frequently. Certainly You see us-and You inspired him: O Musa! All your requests have been granted. (The Holy Prophet continued) Delight my heart and make my task easy and appoint from among my kinsmen Ali as my vizier and strengthen my back with him'. (Abu Dhar proceeds) By Allah, the Holy Prophet had not yet finished his supplication when the trustworthy Jibril descended to him with this verse". (Ibn Khallikan says that Al Tha-labi was unique as a commentator of the Quran and his Tafsir al Kabir is superior to all other Tafsirs).

In this verse the word wali has been used in the meaning of guardian or master or who holds authority superior to others. Please refer to the origin of the word wali in Sihah or Mukhtar al Sihah or any other good dictionary. The lexicographers have explained that he who manages the affairs of and exercises authority for another person is the wali of that person. This verse, therefore, means that those who manage the affairs of the people (mankind) are superior to all men, and certainly they are Allah, His messenger, the Holy Prophet, and Ali, who possesses all the qualifications enumerated in this verse. Allah has simultaneously confirmed His wilayah (superior authority), that of His prophet and his wali (Ali) in unbroken succession. Allah's wilayah is universal, so likewise, the wilayah of the Holy Prophet and his wali (Ali) must be so. It is not possible to assign to the word wali in this verse the meaning of a helper or a friend, etcetera, for help and friendship are not confined to these three only. All the faithful men and women, according to the holy book, are friends and helpers of one another. It is as obvious as can be that the word wali in this verse means, guardian, ruler, possessor of superior authority. It is in this sense that the word wali has been used by the Holy Prophet in the abovenoted tradition related by Al Tha-labi in his Tafsir al Kabir on the authority of Abu Dharr al Ghifari whom the Holy Prophet had given the title of siddiq (the truthful). There are other authentic traditions, given below, in which the word wali indicates its true meaning:

(i) Abu Dawud al Tayalisi has recorded in Isti-ab on the authority of Ibn Abbas, who said: "The Holy Prophet said to Ali, 'You are the master (wali) of the faithful after me'."

(ii) After an expedition, under the command of Ali, some of the men, who went with him, complained to the Holy Prophet about Ali's refusal to oblige them favourably. The Holy Prophet turned to them with signs of displeasure on his face and said: "What do you want to do to Ali? Surely Ali is from me and I am from him, and after me he is the master (wali) of all the faithful."

Nasa-i has recorded it in his Khasa-is al Alawiyyah, p. 17, Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 4, p. 438; Hakim in Mustadrak, vol. 11, p. 11; Al Dhahabi in his Talkhis al Mustadrak; Ibn Shaybah and Jarir both have recorded it from whom Muttaqi of India has copied it in his Kanz al Ummal, vol. 6, p. 400; Tirmidhi has recorded it from Asqalani, mentioned in his account of Ali in his Isabah; Ibn Hadid has copied it from Tirmidhi in his Sharh al Nahj al Balagha, vol. 2, p. 450.

(iii) The Holy Prophet said to Buraydah:

"Am I not a more privileged master (mawla or wali) of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves? Ali is the master (wali or mawla) of those who believe me to be their master."

Ahmad ibn Hanbal has recorded it in his Musnad, vol. 5, p. 356, Hakim has recorded it in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 110, besides many other traditionists.

(iv) The Holy Prophet said:

"O Ali! After me you are the master of all the faithful."

Hakim has recorded this tradition as reported by Ibn Abbas in his Mustadrak, vol. 3, p. 134; and Dhahabi in his Talkhis; Nasa-i in Khasa-is al Alawiyyah p. 6; Ahmad ibn Hanbal in Musnad vol. 1, p. 331.

"Ali is your wali after me", means that Ali and none else will be the master of the faithful after the Holy Prophet. It confines in Ali the authority to manage the affairs of the ummah after him. It is, therefore, necessary to attach the same meaning to the word wali and to understand it in the same sense as has been pointed out above. Help, affection, love, friendship are not confined to any one person. All faithful men and women love and are friends of one another. If the meaning of wali is taken as helper or friend, then why the Holy Prophet took so much interest in, and attached so much importance to, clarifying emphatically what was obvious and evident, so as to repeat the declaration off and on? His perfect wisdom, his thorough impeccability and termination with him of the prophethood make him far above the indulgence of explaining the self-evident, emphasising the obvious and making unnecessary repetitions. Besides, the traditions lay down clearly that Ali is or will be master of the nation after the Holy Prophet, and this makes it all the more necessary to understand the word wali in the same sense and fix for it the same meaning as has been stated above. The abovenoted traditionists, commentators and historians also deal with the word wali or mawla as the "more privileged master of the lives of the faithful than the faithful themselves."

"Those who believe" is in the plural form. How can it be applicable to an individual?

All the annotators, traditionists and historians agree that it was Na-im ibn Mas-ud al Ashja-i, whom Abu Sufyan gave ten camels for discouraging the Muslim, said to them: "Fear your enemies who have united against you and gathered in large numbers to attack you" (Ali Imran: 173), but in this verse "people said to them" (a plural form) has been used.

It was Ghawrath from the tribe of Banu Maharib, some scholars say, while others say that it was Umar ibn Jahash of the tribe of Banu Nadir, (a single man) single man) who drew out his sword to strike the Holy Prophet, but verse 11 of al Ma-idah describes it as "when a group of persons became so bold as to stretch their hands to you"-in plural form. Verse 120 of al Nahl says: "Ibrahim was certainly a people obedient to Allah".

There are plenty of other examples of using the plural form for an individual.

Tabrasi, while commenting on this verse in his Majma al Bayan, says: "The plural form has been used for Ali in order to express his glory and eminence ."

Zamakhshari, in his Tafsir al Kashshaf, says:

"If you inquire how this plural word is applicable to Ali, who is an individual, I shall say that though this verse is about Ali, an individual, the plural form is used in order to persuade others to act similarly and give alms as readily as Ali did."

The Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt have frequently referred to this verse as a proof of their rightful imamat and have assigned the same meaning to the word wali as we have stated.

The word innama makes the decision of Allah (that He, the Holy Prophet and Ali alone are the masters of the believers) final and decisive. The construction of the sentence and the word wali, used in singular for all the three, means that wilayah of all the three is essentially one in nature as well as in effect. Therefore, obedience to the Holy Prophet must be as it should be to Allah, and obedience to Ali and his successors (the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt) must be as it should be to the Holy Prophet.

Wa hum raki-un is an adverbial clause qualifying the manner in which the alms were given. If it is taken as a conjunctive clause, then yuqimunas salat or this clause becomes an unnecessary repetition.

In fact this verse points out the highest state of spiritual attainment-fully absorbed in witnessing the glory of the absolute Lord and at the same time alive to the needs of His servants so as to solve them at once to their full satisfaction- which alone entitles a man to be a master like the eternal master, the almighty Allah. The Quran a asserts this possibility for such a man, not for all the followers because they have been addressed in

second person (kum). The plural term "those who believe" is used to include the Imams among the Ahl ul Bayt in the same way as has been done in verse 61 of Ali Imran (Mubahilah).

Please also refer to verse 67 of this surah for the event of Ghadir Khum where the Holy Prophet openly declared Ali as the wali or mawla of the faithfuls just as the Holy Prophet himself is. The entire Muslim nation is unanimous that when the verses of the Quran were collected they were not arranged in the same order in which they descended. There is many a verse occurring in an irrelevant context, for instance, the verse of purification, which occurs in the account of the wives of the Holy Prophet, but actually is in praise of the five persons of al kisa, as has been universally admitted. All Muslims are agreed that arguments are to be preferred to the context, and whenever the implication of the context was opposed to the implication of arguments they ignored the context and yielded to the arguments, because they were doubtful about the context in which a certain verse occurs.

[Pickthal 5:56] And whoso taketh Allah and His messenger and those who believe for guardian (will know that), lo! the party of Allah, they are the victorious.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 5:56]

Whoever takes Allah, His messenger and "those who believe" (particularised in the preceding verse) as his master, joins Allah's party-only Allah's party will be successful in the end. This verse is in continuation of the preceding verse.

It is irrational and senseless to accept any ruler as ulil amr, otherwise men like Yazid bin Mu-awiya will have to be included in the category of ulil amr; and no sane person would say that Allah has enjoined to obey men like Yazid (prototypes of whom were and are many and in abundance since the departure of the Holy Prophet till today) just as one obeys Allah and the Holy Prophet.

From the event of ashira (feast of the near relatives to carry out the divine command of "warn your tribe of near relatives") to the day at Ghadir Khum, the Holy Prophet repeatedly announced the successorship of Ali, therefore, the first step a true Muslim must take to obey the messenger of Allah is to obey and follow Ali ibn abi Talib. Also refer to the "Right Path" and "Peshawar Nights", published by the Peermohammed Ebrahim Trust or Zahra Publications, because the issue of ulil amr and wali has been discussed in depth in these books with authentic references from the well-known books of tafsir (exegesis) and hadith (traditions) written by the Muslim scholars.

Today the Muslim ummah (from Indonesia to Morocco) is in a quandary, because the theoreticians who directly or indirectly served the interests of the despotic rulers, have presented "the obedience to ruler" (even if he is an usurper, a rogue or a ruffian) as a fundamental of religion (known as the theory of ghlu and ghalba-violence and conquest) by misinterpreting this verse. Such theoreticians are their Imams. There is no way leading to emancipation from terror and exploitation if this theory is not rightly rejected once and for all. It is not possible unless the sincere Muslims submit to the teachings of the Ahl ul Bayt.

tq bro.

this is not about who are these ulil amri.

this is about why none of the companions asked who are these ulil amri when the verse 4:59 was revealed, according to sunni's belief.

i know this for sure, since none is mentioned by ibn kathir when commenting on this particular ayat.

any thoughts from SunniBrother, Just a muslim?

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1 hour ago, hoskot said:

tq bro.

this is not about who are these ulil amri.

this is about why none of the companions asked who are these ulil amri when the verse 4:59 was revealed, according to sunni's belief.

i know this for sure, since none is mentioned by ibn kathir when commenting on this particular ayat.

any thoughts from SunniBrother, Just a muslim?

i read a saying of imam shafi that ibn abbas said these ulil amr are the amirs. i dont have the reference for it in case you want that.

so, forget that. suppose the sahaba didnt ask about who the ulil amr were. i dont know why they didnt ask. you think that was because the ulil amr meant the imams and the sahaba didnt like that so they didnt ask or asked but didnt tell/narrate it?

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4 hours ago, hoskot said:

tq bro.

this is not about who are these ulil amri.

this is about why none of the companions asked who are these ulil amri when the verse 4:59 was revealed, according to sunni's belief.

i know this for sure, since none is mentioned by ibn kathir when commenting on this particular ayat.

any thoughts from SunniBrother, Just a muslim?

I still stay on my position that the 12 leaders hadith was fabricated by the Umayyads or Abbasids. No one actually explained why there was a major confusion after Imam Ja'afar Al Saddiq (r.a) which resulted in several splits (not just twelver and ismaelis). If people knew, there wasn't going to be confusion. If someone want to know why and from where I take this position PM me.

Edited by SunniBrother

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Who is today ulilamar for muslims.

Who where ulilamar after MOHHAMAD saw. 

Yes there should be clear elaboration about ulilamar so that common masses do not have confusion. 

i say: do we have an amir today? no. so, it does not explicitly apply to anyone. but if there is someone who has authority over you, then you obey then as long as they command what Allah commanded and his messenger commanded.

the ulil amr after the prophet pbuh were the people who had authority, the amirs. the khulafa. i dont know where you are getting with this.

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35 minutes ago, just a muslim said:

i say: do we have an amir today? no. so, it does not explicitly apply to anyone. but if there is someone who has authority over you, then you obey then as long as they command what Allah commanded and his messenger commanded.

the ulil amr after the prophet pbuh were the people who had authority, the amirs. the khulafa. i dont know where you are getting with this.

How you say there is no Amir today. 

Can you name  ulilamar so  of past. 

In reality scores of people came who had authority. 

Even today are many leaders who have authority. 

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20 minutes ago, islam25 said:

How you say there is no Amir today. 

Can you name  ulilamar so  of past. 

In reality scores of people came who had authority. 

Even today are many leaders who have authority. 

if you think there is an amir today, tell me who it is.

all the leaders in the past who had authority.

yes. they were all ulil amr. 

if so, then we obey them today as well. as long as they do not command something unislamic.

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12 hours ago, just a muslim said:

if you think there is an amir today, tell me who it is.

all the leaders in the past who had authority.

yes. they were all ulil amr. 

if so, then we obey them today as well. as long as they do not command something unislamic.

Who will decide what is Islamic and what is unislamic. We or ulilamar. 

Today erdgon is ulilamar. 

King of Saudi is ulilamar. 

Roohani of Iran is ulilamar. 

Abu Bakr was ulilamar. 

ALI was ulilamar. 

Muawiyah was ulilamar. 

Yazeed was ulilamar. 

And so on.

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On 9/19/2017 at 11:08 PM, just a muslim said:

lets suppose for a second that these ulil amr were the 12 imams. okay. so what? do you not read the remaining part of the ayah? it says if you disagree in something, return it to Allah and the messenger pbuh.

and i think i know what youre gonna say. i heard ammar nakshawani's lecture on imamah. so, please, bring your answer. i have a response ready for that.

i just woud like to know, why no such hadith recorded in sunni hadith collection. any logical explanation for it?

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18 hours ago, just a muslim said:

i read a saying of imam shafi that ibn abbas said these ulil amr are the amirs. i dont have the reference for it in case you want that.

so, forget that. suppose the sahaba didnt ask about who the ulil amr were. i dont know why they didnt ask. you think that was because the ulil amr meant the imams and the sahaba didnt like that so they didnt ask or asked but didnt tell/narrate it?

they did asked about

Shakir 2:189] They ask you concerning the new moon.

[Shakir 2:215] They ask you as to what they should spend.

[Shakir 2:222] And they ask you about menstruation.

[Shakir 8:1] They ask you about the windfalls

which, IMO, very much less weightier than ulil amri. don't u think so?

i believe, shias have such narrations, thus ulil amri is a non-issue for them,

i believe, sahabas did asked, but the umayyads and the abbasids forbade their propagations.

anyway thanks for sharing ur thoughts.

 

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i think we have enuf debate on who are these ulil amri.

pls stay focus on why no hadith recorded in sunni hadith collection companions asking who are these ulil amri.

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