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SIAR14

Non-Muslim preaching in Islamic state.

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Are non-Muslim allowed to preach their religion in Islamic state a part from practicing it. Kindly give reference from Quran or haidth of Ahlul Bayth (A.S).

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11 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

Are non-Muslim allowed to preach their religion in Islamic state a part from practicing it. Kindly give reference from Quran or haidth of Ahlul Bayth (A.S).

In saudia Arabia they don't allow, but our prophet never stop them. I am sure there were popes and rabies who were teaching there religion during prophet. could you provide me a source where prophet stopped them to practice their religion?

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3 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Do you mean preaching to Muslims or preaching to non-Muslims?

I think they're not permitted to preach to muslims or to preach in public, I'm not sure why though? Yeah they can misguide people, but people strong in faith would never be misguided. This law and the one about apostasy I find really troubling, I know ultimately these are rules we just have to accept, but personally speaking, the approach of don't do this or you'll go to hell or you'll face this consequence never worked with me. I always liked to see why certain things are recommended the way they are, and I believe Islam is a religion that is secure and thus, should encourage people to be inquisitive, ask questions and learn, so I'm not sure why we have these laws. Didn't Imam debate with atheists who obviously were open about their atheism, they must've been to debate, they were never killed for their lack of belief though?  

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11 hours ago, SIAR14 said:

Are non-Muslim allowed to preach their religion in Islamic state a part from practicing it. Kindly give reference from Quran or haidth of Ahlul Bayth (A.S).

It's not allowed by the logical argument that when truth is already there falsehood has no place. However, Islam allows to practice religion.

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13 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

could you provide me a source where prophet stopped them to practice their religion?

According to my knowledge they can practice their religion that's why Muslim state take jizya from them. But I don't know whether they can preach their religion openly, like we have majlis. 

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13 hours ago, Qa'im said:

Do you mean preaching to Muslims or preaching to non-Muslims?

This can be another question. I would like to know about both Muslim and Non-Muslim. 

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10 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Didn't Imam debate with atheists who obviously were open about their atheism, they must've been to debate, they were never killed for their lack of belief though?  

People from different background came to Imam (A.S) to clear their misunderstanding but I don't think so they were allowed to go and preach anywhere they want. This adds another question. When people of the book are allowed to build their Churches and Temples then automatically they will preach their ideology.
 

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11 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

It's not allowed by the logical argument that when truth is already there falsehood has no place. However, Islam allows to practice religion

Yes they are allowed to practice their religion, I am clear on that. But yesterday from knowledgeable source I heard Non-Muslim are not allowed to preach their religion in Muslim state, I just wanted to have source where Quran or Ahlul Bayth (A.S) mentioning this. And I was bite confuse that when they are allowed to build their Churches and Temples, then what does it mean they are not allowed to preach? :-/ In churches and temples obviously they are going to preach their ideology to their people or even to any other religion. 

Edited by starlight

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1 hour ago, SIAR14 said:

Yes they are allowed to practice their religion, I am clear on that. But tomorrow from knowledgeable source I heard Non-Muslim are not allowed to preach their religion in Muslim state, I just wanted to have source where Quran or Ahlul Bayth (A.S) mentioning this. And I was bite confuse that when they are allowed to build their Churches and Temples, then what does it mean they are not allowed to preach? :-/ In churches and temples obviously they are going to preach their ideology to their people or even to any other religion. 

They can preach to their people or those who are not Muslims but not to Muslims. The reason is that it is not allowed in Islam to part ways from truth for the falsehood. There are clear verses in Quran which say that disbelieving after believing is haram. There are various verses in Quran for it. For example, the following verse: 

Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you because they were Mujrimoon (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.)” [at-Tawbah 9:65-66]. 

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17 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

I think they're not permitted to preach to muslims or to preach in public, I'm not sure why though? Yeah they can misguide people, but people strong in faith would never be misguided. This law and the one about apostasy I find really troubling, I know ultimately these are rules we just have to accept, but personally speaking, the approach of don't do this or you'll go to hell or you'll face this consequence never worked with me. I always liked to see why certain things are recommended the way they are, and I believe Islam is a religion that is secure and thus, should encourage people to be inquisitive, ask questions and learn, so I'm not sure why we have these laws. Didn't Imam debate with atheists who obviously were open about their atheism, they must've been to debate, they were never killed for their lack of belief though?  

In general, Islamic law is very keen on preventing public sin and kufr. It does not really have an issue with people drinking, fornicating, or disbelieving in private, but once it enters the public sphere (i.e. around valid witnesses, and after a trial), the crimes become punishable. This is because the society is built on an Islamic social fabric, and it should dominate the public discourse. If people are allowed to publicly sin and apostate, then it would desensitize people to sin, normalize sin, and create public competitors to Islam which is bound to confuse people and create discord.

There's no issue with people asking tough questions, being inquisitive, etc. the issue is when people are committing public fisq and not repenting from it. At this point, the shari`a puts them in the category of mufsideena fil ard and muharibeen, because they are actively working against the society and promoting an alternative lifestyle.

The Islamic empires in the past were not always policing these things. There were open atheists and critics of Islam, some of whom debated our Imams, even in Mecca during Hajj. However, this does not change the fact that this would technically be a punishable offense - in the same way that drugs and prostitution are punishable in most Western countries but rarely policed.

Anyway, the answer to the original question is - in a country governed by Islam, missionaries are allowed to preach to non-Muslims, but not to Muslims. The latter would be seen as ideological warfare.

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4 hours ago, Qa'im said:

There's no issue with people asking tough questions, being inquisitive, etc.

The trouble is what would constitute proselytizing, would having a healthy debate with your friends about religion be proselytizing, since technically they would be talking about their faith and preaching right? Also about public apostasy, so if some muslim saw me go into a church having known I was muslim before, would that be punishable by death? 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mohamed1993 said:

The trouble is what would constitute proselytizing, would having a healthy debate with your friends about religion be proselytizing, since technically they would be talking about their faith and preaching right? Also about public apostasy, so if some muslim saw me go into a church having known I was muslim before, would that be punishable by death? 

 

Im not sure what the answer is to your first question. As for your second question, visiting a church would not be enough. You would need to be witnessed saying something against the clear muHkam aspects of Islam - for example, saying that Jesus is God, or that the laws are all abrogated, etc. Afterwards, the state's reaction would depend on whether your Islam is fitri or milli.

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I should also mention that in our fiqh, there is no capital punishment for female apostates. If she apostates, her repentance in accepted, and if she does not repent, she is jailed.

So apostasy was seen as treason, and apostates were pretty much seen as combatants, and Islam was your citizenship in the society. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

I should also mention that in our fiqh, there is no capital punishment for female apostates. If she apostates, her repentance in accepted, and if she does not repent, she is jailed.

So apostasy was seen as treason, and apostates were pretty much seen as combatants, and Islam was your citizenship in the society. 

 

Qa'im were these laws applied during Imam Ali's rule? 

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Given how tough Islam is on Apostates I doubt there would be much freedom when it comes to preaching different religions.  Certainly nowhere near as much as muslims are accorded in some secular societies.

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48 minutes ago, King said:

Given how tough Islam is on Apostates I doubt there would be much freedom when it comes to preaching different religions.  Certainly nowhere near as much as muslims are accorded in some secular societies.

This is what I think too, but as far as I know don't they have religious debates in Iran?

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1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Qa'im were these laws applied during Imam Ali's rule? 

Well one parallel example is Imam `Ali's execution of ghulat who were worshiping him. He told them to desist, they continued, and so they were executed.

Otherwise, keep in mind that most of Imam Ali's caliphate was plagued with civil unrest (Jamal, the move to Kufa, Siffin, Nahrawan, and finally his martyrdom). The main precedent for these laws is the teaching of the middle and later Imams.

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On 9/15/2017 at 5:10 PM, Qa'im said:

I should also mention that in our fiqh, there is no capital punishment for female apostates. If she apostates, her repentance in accepted, and if she does not repent, she is jailed.

So apostasy was seen as treason, and apostates were pretty much seen as combatants, and Islam was your citizenship in the society. 

 

Why ?

How are Female apostates treated in Sunni fiqah?

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