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Why we do matam?

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4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

They have no reason for such prejudices. Prophet PBUHHP said on various ocassions in Hadith that they were not human like us. It is reported in various narrations of the people that Prophet PBUHHP has no shadow and he could see in front as he could see behind. In Quran, Allah says: "Find a means to attain nearness to Allah AWJ". They have the merit to help us approve our prayers urgent because they are loved by Allah AWJ. If by their duas we are cured, it is not out of Islam because Prophets have previously done that and it is in Quran. 

We believe that whatever Prophets and Imams could do, is due to the permission of Allah AWJ. And without Him, they could not do anything. However, on the other hand, Allah AWJ himself has said in Quran: "On the day of the Judgement, Allah AWJ would not speak to sinners". So, how could you or I expect ourselves to be so pure that God would listen to us more than God would listen to his Prophet PBUHHP and His family who remained so loyal to message of Islam and were obedient to Allah throughout their lives for which Allah has said obtain means to get nearer to God. 

I am convinced that you are one among those who have not understood fully what we believe and have yet reached to conclusion without further thought over the issues, this could be because either you dislike Shias or you are Sunni yourself.  Whatever be the case, you are wrong brother. 

Wasallam. 

Do you have phrases for me from Quran where it days that Imams did such things?

It is not day of judgement today.

And let me tell you that you just judged me. So inam wrong ok, so you are right and you know this. You think that. But me, my brother, I think that only Allah swt. knows who is wrong and who is right. I am not sunni because I say Imams cant do such things and many shias think like that. But you say you are right we are wrong. Let us see who is right in the end.

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12 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Do you have phrases for me from Quran where it days that Imams did such things?

It is not day of judgement today.

And let me tell you that you just judged me. So inam wrong ok, so you are right and you know this. You think that. But me, my brother, I think that only Allah swt. knows who is wrong and who is right. I am not sunni because I say Imams cant do such things and many shias think like that. But you say you are right we are wrong. Let us see who is right in the end.

Was not Ibrahim a.s Imam, It is said in Quran that Allah AWJ conferred upon Ibrahim a.s Imamate after he a.s succeeded in his trial of sacrificing his son for the sake of Allah AWJ. Please read in Quran, how through him, Allah AWJ gave life to four birds that were slaughtered by him. 

Also, you speak of Imam, I tell you things which are less than them doing miracles. Do you remember Surah Baqarah, recite it and you will know that it was through a piece of flesh that Allah AWJ gave life to a man who was killed by the Jews of that era. 

My Judgement is like your Judgement, you Judged that we Shias are not right so it shows that you are not shia since you without knowing the detail just guessed and look what Quran negates your opinion. Your guesses convinced me that either you are not Shia or have never met one in life or if you are a Shia then you must have lived a life without reading the books bro. 

Wasallam. 

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31 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That what I say.

Prophets are superior not because they have supernatural power. But for different reason. 

Even if ordinary person too have supernatural power doesn't make him superior. 

But they are superior both because they have miracles and you do not have and they are better in obedience than you. So, the belief of Sunnis that Prophet PBUHHP is like us is not correct because mostly try to say that Prophet did mistakes and so on so forth while Quran negates it and they have miracles which we do not have. 

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20 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Was not Ibrahim a.s Imam, It is said in Quran that Allah AWJ conferred upon Ibrahim a.s Imamate after he a.s succeeded in his trial of sacrificing his son for the sake of Allah AWJ. Please read in Quran, how through him, Allah AWJ gave life to four birds that were slaughtered by him. 

Also, you speak of Imam, I tell you things which are less than them doing miracles. Do you remember Surah Baqarah, recite it and you will know that it was through a piece of flesh that Allah AWJ gave life to a man who was killed by the Jews of that era. 

My Judgement is like your Judgement, you Judged that we Shias are not right so it shows that you are not shia since you without knowing the detail just guessed and look what Quran negates your opinion. Your guesses convinced me that either you are not Shia or have never met one in life or if you are a Shia then you must have lived a life without reading the books bro. 

Wasallam. 

Ibrahim was a prophet. I am talking about the twelve imams so if you have evidence for their powers from Quran show me.

And yes Allah swt. did that and I never said Allah swt. cannot do that, what is your point? Maybe you should read again what I said. Allah swt. can do  everything. But not the Imams.

We shias hahaha I am shia too and I did never say shias are not right. I will not discuss with you anymore until you start reading what I said because I said I understand why Sunnis have such thoughts when people like YOU say such things. It is not a shia idea, it is YOUR idea. So please stop spreading lies.

If Quran says Imams have superpowers then why dont you show me instead of empty talk? I am waiting.

Ok brother hahaha I am not shia or not even muslim you must be right. You put yourself on same position as Allah swt. when you think YOU have the right to judge who is muslim and who is not. Astaghfirullah!

Think what you want it only matters what Allah swt. thinks of me. 

Astaghfirullah again!

May Allah swt. guide us all....

Edited by Muslim96

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15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

But they are superior both because they have miracles and you do not have and they are better in obedience than you. So, the belief of Sunnis that Prophet PBUHHP is like us is not correct because mostly try to say that Prophet did mistakes and so on so forth while Quran negates it and they have miracles which we do not have. 

Mr.why do you drag sunnis in it. The Prophet's are superior only because they know and and submit to him. Marical has nothing to do with it.

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.why do you drag sunnis in it. The Prophet's are superior only because they know and and submit to him. Marical has nothing to do with it.

In his opinions everyone that says Imams do not have super special superpowers, even the majority of shia, must be sunni. Just read his accusations towards me.. 

Edited by Muslim96

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1 minute ago, Muslim96 said:

In his opinions everyone that says Imams do not have superpowers must be sunni. Just read his accusations towards me.. 

It is unfortunate that we limit superiority of Ambias as and imams in terms of maricals. And forget that it knowledge and submitting to Allah that makes one superior. 

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1 hour ago, Muslim96 said:

Ibrahim was a prophet. I am talking about the twelve imams so if you have evidence for their powers from Quran show me.

And yes Allah swt. did that and I never said Allah swt. cannot do that, what is your point? Maybe you should read again what I said. Allah swt. can do  everything. But not the Imams.

We shias hahaha I am shia too and I did never say shias are not right. I will not discuss with you anymore until you start reading what I said because I said I understand why Sunnis have such thoughts when people like YOU say such things. It is not a shia idea, it is YOUR idea. So please stop spreading lies.

If Quran says Imams have superpowers then why dont you show me instead of empty talk? I am waiting.

Ok brother hahaha I am not shia or not even muslim you must be right. You put yourself on same position as Allah swt. when you think YOU have the right to judge who is muslim and who is not. Astaghfirullah!

Think what you want it only matters what Allah swt. thinks of me. 

Astaghfirullah again!

May Allah swt. guide us all....

hahahahaha, When did I say that Imams do Miracle on their own lolz. What Miracle they showed is due to Allah AWJ. Secondly, Cow is an animal, if Allah could make her to do miracles, then Imams are far superior than the lump of flesh of Cow brother. Secondly, another sign is of Luqman a.s who was neither a Prophet nor an Imam, but had the miracle of treating every disease, is not it true. 

I think your bias is with Imams, so you do not want to admit it that Imams were bestowed with such ability by God, you can accept the miracles by the people or creations lower than him whom God bestowed with miracles but not Imams. It is a logical answer that when a person having lower capacity could do the thing, the person higher than him knows the knowledge of that and could do it better. Was Luqman a.s and Khidr a.s with Miracles or not ? They both are not known as Prophets or Imams but saints, Since they could do miracles with the permission of Allah AWJ, so could Imams do it. 

If you are unable to understand this let me ask you a question, Was Prophet PBUHHP above all Prophets or not ? If you say yes, then 123999 Prophets had visited earth with miracles, so if he was superior to them, he should be able to do all miracles of them, but only few are mentioned in Quran so does it according to you put Prophet PBUHHP lower than you because there is not description of every event ? 

This does not show that you are a Shia. A Shia belief is that Imams are authority chosen by Allah AWJ and one has to believe in their miracles as well. However, I would mention for you few miracles of Imams in the Quran which no one other shares with them except the Prophet PBUHHP. 

It Quran, it is written: "Allah has purified you O! family of Prophet with thorough purification". The family of Prophet PBUHHP included Prophet PBUHHP, Fatima a.s, Ali a.s, Hasan a.s and Hussain a.s and coming successors of Hussain ibn Ali. 

The above miracle shows that Imams are like Prophet PBUHHP infallible and never do mistake, that is not to any human being.

Another Verse of Quran says: "Ask Christians to bring them their sons, their selves and their women and you should bring your son, bring your selves and bring your women and curse upon the liars". 

When Christians were defeated in debate by Prophet PBUHHP, Allah AWJ sent verse that let bring your sons, yourselves and your women. At that time, Prophet PBUHHP brought with him as sons Hasan and Hussain, as selves himself and Ali a.s and As Women only Fatima Zahra a.s. And Allah AWJ asked them to curse upon liars but Christians submitted without confrontation. This is the power of Curse of Ahlebait a.s which is Miracle given to them by Allah AWJ. Prophet PBUHHP said, if we had cursed the Christians, not a single of them would have survived among them after that. So, were not Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain a.s among them.

Another Miracle of Imams is that they through them Duas are accepted, It is written in Quran: "If you desire nearness of Allah AWJ obtain means to it". And many Hadith mentions that those means are Prophet and Imams. Prophet PBUHHP said: "Anyone who does Hajj in his whole life and prayed and lived a good life as believer but willfully rejected the Wialayah of Imam Ali a.s will die as unbeliever". Hazrat Abu Bakr said: "Prophet PBUHHP said that seeing Ali is Ibadah". 

In Quran it is said about Imams that "Everyone will perish except the face of Allah AWJ". And among the face of Allah are those infallible Prophets and Imams and their followers. 

You should search for Miracles of Imams in Quran and you will find many brother. Just do not do astagfurllah for nothing. I never saw anything in you as of Shia. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

Mr.why do you drag sunnis in it. The Prophet's are superior only because they know and and submit to him. Marical has nothing to do with it.

Because it is not a belief of Shias which you have come up with brother, Indeed, it is truth that they are better because they have obeyed God better than us and if Allah AWJ gives them Miracles for sealing the fact that they are Prophets and Imsms in truth, you should rather feel happy on their abilities rather then trying to prove Shias wrong because we are not saying something which is out of Quran. Do not exceed limits of Allah due to ideological differences bro. 

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

Because it is not a belief of Shias which you have come up with brother, Indeed, it is truth that they are better because they have obeyed God better than us and if Allah AWJ gives them Miracles for sealing the fact that they are Prophets and Imsms in truth, you should rather feel happy on their abilities rather then trying to prove Shias wrong because we are not saying something which is out of Quran. Do not exceed limits of Allah due to ideological differences bro. 

I am telling you shia belief. It is only knowing ones nothingness and recognising Allah to be all praiseworthy and slef sufficient that makes Ambias and imams as superior to others. 

Miracles has no value. 

 

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2 hours ago, Muslim96 said:

In his opinions everyone that says Imams do not have super special superpowers, even the majority of shia, must be sunni. Just read his accusations towards me.. 

Majority Shias believe that Imams could do Miracles, I advice that do not conceal yourself in the garb of Shiaism and be open in your beliefs as Sunni. This is very unpleasant thing before Allah AWJ as Deen forbade deception. You are afraid of people that they may not know about you and therefore because I am certain you are not Shia but you are not afraid of God who will blew this garb on the day of Judgement. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

I am telling you shia belief. It is only knowing ones nothingness and recognising Allah to be all praiseworthy and slef sufficient that makes Ambias and imams as superior to others. 

Miracles has no value. 

 

lolz, you are mixing two things together and want to give a perception that I am saying that Miracles have value other than Allah ?

Bro, you were the one who denied before and said that what purpose miracles have ? I said that their purpose is to seal the truth upon the people that in fact such and such person is Prophet or Imam. 

Albeit, I never have denied your this statement that Prophets and Imams' higher status is due to their submission to Allah AWJ. Never had I mixed two things together. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

lolz, you are mixing two things together and want to give a perception that I am saying that Miracles have value other than Allah ?

Bro, you were the one who denied before and said that what purpose miracles have ? I said that their purpose is to seal the truth upon the people that in fact such and such person is Prophet or Imam. 

Albeit, I never have denied your this statement that Prophets and Imams' higher status is due to their submission to Allah AWJ. Never had I mixed two things together. 

I belive imam can do much higher and greater maricals Allah willing. 

But maricals have nothing to do ones value before Allah. 

The true superiority Ambias and Awlias have is because they know Allah is all praiseworthy and recognise their humility before Allah. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

I belive imam can do much higher and greater maricals Allah willing. 

But maricals have nothing to do ones value before Allah. 

The true superiority Ambias and Awlias have is because they know Allah is all praiseworthy and recognise their humility before Allah. 

There is no difference on such issue, I agree with you.

My main concern was that why do people say that Prophets or Imams could not do miracles which is against Quran because Allah gave all Prophets and Imams miracle of not falling into sins and it entirely depends on Allah. 

The status of Anabiyas, Imams and Awaliyas and ordinary people before God is Taqwa that is true and I agree. 

Are we fine now ? Peace :surrender:

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

There is no difference on such issue, I agree with you.

My main concern was that why do people say that Prophets or Imams could not do miracles which is against Quran because Allah gave all Prophets and Imams miracle of not falling into sins and it entirely depends on Allah. 

The status of Anabiyas, Imams and Awaliyas and ordinary people before God is Taqwa that is true and I agree. 

Are we fine now ? Peace :surrender:

When quran is full of stories maricals of Ambias as there is no weight in denying it.

But beliving Ambias are superior in rank because they can do marical in unfortunate. 

It is said Prophet Muhammad saww was highest in rank because he has highest recognition of His nothingness and recognised Allah to be all praiseworthy and slef sufficient. 

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38 minutes ago, islam25 said:

When quran is full of stories maricals of Ambias as there is no weight in denying it.

But beliving Ambias are superior in rank because they can do marical in unfortunate. 

It is said Prophet Muhammad saww was highest in rank because he has highest recognition of His nothingness and recognised Allah to be all praiseworthy and slef sufficient. 

Bro, if someone has power to handle something which Allah AWJ has only granted to a certain individual then why accepting such a thing is unfortunate ? This is the boon which God has granted them and we should accept that no other than that person has the capacity to handle it.

Such as Allah says in Quran: "We revealed Quran onto your Chest but if we had revealed it on Mountain, it would have perished it". The quality of Prophet PBUHHP has greatly benefited us, if Allah AWJ had not granted Prophet PBUHHP power to save it in himself, how could you and I have been able to learn Wisdom from him ? 

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38 minutes ago, islam25 said:

When quran is full of stories maricals of Ambias as there is no weight in denying it.

But beliving Ambias are superior in rank because they can do marical in unfortunate. 

It is said Prophet Muhammad saww was highest in rank because he has highest recognition of His nothingness and recognised Allah to be all praiseworthy and slef sufficient. 

Bro, if someone has power to handle something which Allah AWJ has only granted to a certain individual then why accepting such a thing is unfortunate ? This is the boon which God has granted them and we should accept that no other than that person has the capacity to handle it.

Such as Allah says in Quran: "We revealed Quran onto your Chest but if we had revealed it on Mountain, it would have perished it". The quality of Prophet PBUHHP has greatly benefited us, if Allah AWJ had not granted Prophet PBUHHP power to save it in himself, how could you and I have been able to learn Wisdom from him ? 

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5 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

hahahahaha, When did I say that Imams do Miracle on their own lolz. What Miracle they showed is due to Allah AWJ. Secondly, Cow is an animal, if Allah could make her to do miracles, then Imams are far superior than the lump of flesh of Cow brother. Secondly, another sign is of Luqman a.s who was neither a Prophet nor an Imam, but had the miracle of treating every disease, is not it true. 

I think your bias is with Imams, so you do not want to admit it that Imams were bestowed with such ability by God, you can accept the miracles by the people or creations lower than him whom God bestowed with miracles but not Imams. It is a logical answer that when a person having lower capacity could do the thing, the person higher than him knows the knowledge of that and could do it better. Was Luqman a.s and Khidr a.s with Miracles or not ? They both are not known as Prophets or Imams but saints, Since they could do miracles with the permission of Allah AWJ, so could Imams do it. 

If you are unable to understand this let me ask you a question, Was Prophet PBUHHP above all Prophets or not ? If you say yes, then 123999 Prophets had visited earth with miracles, so if he was superior to them, he should be able to do all miracles of them, but only few are mentioned in Quran so does it according to you put Prophet PBUHHP lower than you because there is not description of every event ? 

This does not show that you are a Shia. A Shia belief is that Imams are authority chosen by Allah AWJ and one has to believe in their miracles as well. However, I would mention for you few miracles of Imams in the Quran which no one other shares with them except the Prophet PBUHHP. 

It Quran, it is written: "Allah has purified you O! family of Prophet with thorough purification". The family of Prophet PBUHHP included Prophet PBUHHP, Fatima a.s, Ali a.s, Hasan a.s and Hussain a.s and coming successors of Hussain ibn Ali. 

The above miracle shows that Imams are like Prophet PBUHHP infallible and never do mistake, that is not to any human being.

Another Verse of Quran says: "Ask Christians to bring them their sons, their selves and their women and you should bring your son, bring your selves and bring your women and curse upon the liars". 

When Christians were defeated in debate by Prophet PBUHHP, Allah AWJ sent verse that let bring your sons, yourselves and your women. At that time, Prophet PBUHHP brought with him as sons Hasan and Hussain, as selves himself and Ali a.s and As Women only Fatima Zahra a.s. And Allah AWJ asked them to curse upon liars but Christians submitted without confrontation. This is the power of Curse of Ahlebait a.s which is Miracle given to them by Allah AWJ. Prophet PBUHHP said, if we had cursed the Christians, not a single of them would have survived among them after that. So, were not Imam Hasan and Imam Hussain a.s among them.

Another Miracle of Imams is that they through them Duas are accepted, It is written in Quran: "If you desire nearness of Allah AWJ obtain means to it". And many Hadith mentions that those means are Prophet and Imams. Prophet PBUHHP said: "Anyone who does Hajj in his whole life and prayed and lived a good life as believer but willfully rejected the Wialayah of Imam Ali a.s will die as unbeliever". Hazrat Abu Bakr said: "Prophet PBUHHP said that seeing Ali is Ibadah". 

In Quran it is said about Imams that "Everyone will perish except the face of Allah AWJ". And among the face of Allah are those infallible Prophets and Imams and their followers. 

You should search for Miracles of Imams in Quran and you will find many brother. Just do not do astagfurllah for nothing. I never saw anything in you as of Shia. 

Allah swt. is allmighty. So if he lets us do miracles tomorrow, too, we are on same level as Imams? You think just because someone did miracles given to hin by Allah swt. he is superior. Besides that, I said superpowers like ealing someone which the Imams did not do according to Quran. As I said, Astaghfirullah that you can judge who is Muslim and who is nit and who is shia and sunni and who is not. I know what I am and it does not matter to me if you think I am muslim or kafir or what else. Astaghfirullah that you think you have the power to decide who is what because just Allah swt. has that. Even if I were sunni or christian or anything else it would not change that. Besides that the majority of shia do NOT believe that imams ha superpowers like healing people but see them as their leaders and guidance in islam. But yes I think you will know everything better hahah it is useless to discuss with you. Keep on thinking that and I will keep om thinking my thing. Answer Allah swt. on the last day. May Allah swt. guide you and us all.

Have a nice day.

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10 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Allah swt. is allmighty. So if he lets us do miracles tomorrow, too, we are on same level as Imams? You think just because someone did miracles given to hin by Allah swt. he is superior. Besides that, I said superpowers like ealing someone which the Imams did not do according to Quran. As I said, Astaghfirullah that you can judge who is Muslim and who is nit and who is shia and sunni and who is not. I know what I am and it does not matter to me if you think I am muslim or kafir or what else. Astaghfirullah that you think you have the power to decide who is what because just Allah swt. has that. Even if I were sunni or christian or anything else it would not change that. Besides that the majority of shia do NOT believe that imams ha superpowers like healing people but see them as their leaders and guidance in islam. But yes I think you will know everything better hahah it is useless to discuss with you. Keep on thinking that and I will keep om thinking my thing. Answer Allah swt. on the last day. May Allah swt. guide you and us all.

Have a nice day.

If you read carefully, I mentioned that Quran does not mention every miracle of Prophet PBUHHP in his life. If you want to learn further about His miracles read Hadith and Sahih Narrations. Similarly, not every miracle of Imams is mentioned in Quran so if you wish to learn more read in certified narrations. 

Secondly, I judged what you told me, I do not exceeded beyond that I did not call you Kaffir, this is what you have said. I have no concern with it. You told me a thing in which Shias do not believe so how could I say that you are Shia since you deny the belief in it ?

Finally, if Allah AWJ gave something which you do not have such as Knowledge of unseen and foretelling future which you do not have, Allah AWJ indeed has chosen him over you due to his certain capacity or capability in which he excels over you. 

Miracles are testimony of God about the truthfulness of Imam or Prophet. I have nothing further to say. 

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7 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

This thread has been derailed, let me put it on the right track :)

Why we do blood matam?

Not everyone does it and those who does think they express their love however even the biggest marjas like Khamenei forbid it and Allah swt. said not to harm yourselves. So, it is not "we" but "some people". Do nit worry about it and stay away from it. Love the Imams in better ways, pray, fast, do Ibadat for them.

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