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Why we do matam?

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1 minute ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

I am only concerned with Prophet saw. Show me where he himself permitted this.

Bro, you should read the passage following it and there are also Hadith about Prophet PBUHHP.

Also, it is taken as Sunnah of Prophet PBUHHP if Prophet PBUHHP do not stop from something. I do not think you are more aware of Prophet PBUHHP then Fatima Zehra a.s his daughter. 

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:49 AM, Sindbad05 said:

@Salsabeel if you do not want to do it, do not do it . But we have the reason to feel how our Imam would have felt when he was hurt. 

Brother then feel it properly. 

On 9/7/2017 at 10:33 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:

I am not sure about any other wound of ahlebayt at karbala that what happened and what not except the fact that they were beheaded. So go ahead and do the same and show your love for ahlebayt and feel their real pain.

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23 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Ok, here is the question, why we do blood matam? i.e., zanjir zani, qama zani, blade zani, gurz zani etc.

I am not appropriate person to answer this question. I never did in my life. But I believe those who do, let them do. It is between them and Allah. We can academically discuss with them why they should not  do this but we can't force them to leave this act. Secondly it also depend which Marja e Taqleed they follow.

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:55 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:

Brother then feel it properly. 

 

On 9/7/2017 at 10:55 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:
On 9/7/2017 at 10:33 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:

I am not sure about any other wound of ahlebayt at karbala that what happened and what not except the fact that they were beheaded. So go ahead and do the same and show your love for ahlebayt and feel their real pain.

 

It is haram to do Suicide, I think you did not read what Prophet PBUHHP's sunnah is you did not read Hadith from your books. The leaders you follow such as Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik, they were students of our Imams, Imam Ali Zainul Abideen and Imam Muhammad al Baqir a.s and Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s. We learnt from them how to mourn and do matam.

You should better get your jealousy somewhere else bro. 

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2 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

I am not appropriate person to answer this question. I never did in my life. But I believe those who do, let them do. It is between them and Allah. We can academically discuss with them why they should not  do this but we can't force them to leave this act. Secondly it also depend which Marja e Taqleed they follow.

This is an appropriate answer. Agree with you brother. 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Yeah, for you it could be that but I believe that faith requires sincerity and it is showed through Processions for Imam Hussain a.s and doing Matam and Noha for Imam Hussain a.s. Sincerity weighs your faith not words. 

Mr . Doing matam or not doing matam has much less to do with faith. Again procession   have nothing to do ones faith.

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:58 AM, Sindbad05 said:

It is haram to do Suicide, I think you did not read what Prophet PBUHHP's sunnah is you did not read Hadith from your books. The leaders you follow such as Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik, they were students of our Imams, Imam Ali Zainul Abideen and Imam Muhammad al Baqir a.s and Imam Jafar al Sadiq a.s. We learnt from them how to mourn and do matam.

You should better get your jealousy somewhere else bro. 

 Nahjul Balagha Sermon 232 

Spoken when Imam was busy in the funeral ablution of the Holy Prophet and shrouding him 

May my father and my mother shed their lives for you. O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets). Your position with us (members of your family) is so special that your grief has become a source of consolation (to us) as against the grief of all others; your grief is also common so that all Muslims share it equally. If you had not ordered endurance and prevented us from bewailing, we would have produced a store of tears and even then the pain would not have subsided, and this grief would not have ended, and they would have been too little of our grief for you. But this (death) is a matter that cannot be reversed nor is it possible to repulse it. May my father and my mother die for you; do remember us with Allah and take care of us.

Hadith n. 322

322. When Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, returned to Kufah from Siffin he passed by the residences of the Shibamites (who belonged to the tribe of Shibam) and heard the women weeping over those killed in Siffin. At that time a Shibamite, Harb ibn Shurahbil ash-Shibami, who was one of the nobles of those people, came to him, and Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Do your women have control over you as regards the weeping that I hear? Do you not refrain them from this crying? Harb began to walk with him while Amir al-mu'minin was on horseback, so Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Get back because the walking of a man like you with one like me is mischief for the ruler and disgrace for the believer.

NO COMMENTS. ITS CRYSTAL CLEAR.

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50 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

the pain would not have subsided

The above narration which you have quoted is mentions that  Imam Ali a.s says that the pain will not go however, we  cannot go against your quotes to avoid fulfilling our social and domestic responsibilities and remain in grief till day of judgement by leaving other obligations of Deen.  

In addition,if it is unacceptable for you then, the verses of Quran might help you to understand:

"[4:148] Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing".

The above verse say that it is allowed to cry for the one who is oppressed. So, was Imam Hussian a.s oppressed or not. If you say that yes, then we have got permission according to Quran but if you say no, then brother you are enemy of Hussain ibn Ali a.s.

If you still have questions brother, I do not have anything to say further for your religious beliefs.

Further references. 

He pulls out the arrow causing blood to gush out. The Holy Imam is thirsty. He cries: “O Allah, I am thirsty”, in the meantime another man approaches and shoots an arrow which thrusts into Imam al-Hussain’s (AS) throat quenching his thirst. Hilal bin Nafi’ was reported as saying: “By God I never saw a person getting killed with his own blood all over his body in a better state than al-Hussain. I was so overwhelmed by the radiance of his face that I refrained from contemplating killing him.” Even when the accursed Shimr approached Imam al-Hussain (AS) to severe his blessed head, he said: “When I approached Hussain ibn Ali and my eyes fell on him, the light of his face so gripped me that I forgot my intention to kill him.” It is reported that when Imam al-Hussain was killed, the sky rained down blood.1 It has been recorded that Imam Ja’far as-Sadiq (AS) has said:

“…For no one the heavens wept for forty days save Yahya and Hussain…”2

Show me such a spectacle of human greatness in an event other than Karbala and I will commemorate its memory instead of Karbala! How can someone hear all this and not cry and mourn; even those who are not Muslims shed tears when they hear this tragedy. Even the heavens wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS).3

Let me ask you a question, if a Muslim cries over the passing away of their own relatives, then how can they not cry over the grandson of the Messenger of Allah (S)? As one of the greatest British historians, Edward Gibbon, once said: “In a distant age and climate, the tragic scene of the death of Hussain will awaken the sympathy of the coldest reader.”4

Furthermore, crying for Imam al-Hussain (AS) is considered seeking nearness to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى for the tragedy of Karbala is bound to the great sacrifice which Imam al-Hussain (AS) endured for the sake of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and for Islam. It is only when your heart is soft and absorbable that you feel the sense of closeness to Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. The Holy Qur’an praises crying and those who cry for a legitimate cause. The Holy Qur’an describes many of the Prophets and their followers when they cried, “When the verses of the Most Gracious were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping”5

Moreover, we cry over the martyrdom of Imam al-Hussain (AS) for the Holy Prophet (S) wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS) as recorded in many traditions (ahadith):

Ahmed and Ibn al-Dhahhak narrated from Ali (AS): “I entered on the prophet (S) and his eyes were flooded, I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, anyone made you angry? Why are your eyes flooded? He said: Gabriel just left me telling me that al-Hussain will be killed by the river Euphrates. He (the Prophet (S)) said: So he (Gabriel) said: Do you want me to let you smell his dirt (from his burial pot)? I said: Yes! He reached with his hand and grabbed and handful of dirt and gave it to me. So I could not help it and my eyes were flooded.”6

Ummul Fadhl the daughter of al-Harith said that she entered on the Messenger of Allah (S) and she said: “Oh! Messenger of Allah, I saw a strange dream last night. He said: And what is it? She said: It was difficult. He said: And what is it? She said: I saw, as if, a piece of your body was severed and was put in my lap! The Messenger of Allah (S) said: You saw well - Fatima will give birth, God willing, a boy so he will be in your lap. Then Fatima gave birth to al-Hussain (AS) and he was in my lap - just as the Messenger of Allah (S) said. So I entered one day on the Messenger of Allah (S) and put him in his lap, but I noticed that the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (S) pouring tears! So I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, my parents are your ransom, what is with you? He said: Gabriel (AS) came to me and informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill this son of mine.” 7

Umm Salamah has said: "al-Hussain entered on the Prophet (S), while I was sitting at the door, so I saw in the hand of the Prophet (S) something he turned over while (Hussain) sleeping on his stomach. I said: Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the kid was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring? He said: Gabriel came to me with the sand upon which he (Hussain) will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (umma) will kill him."8

Ibn Saad, Ali bin Muhammad, Yahya bin Zakariya, a man heard it from 'Amir al-Sha'bi say: “When Ali (as) passed by Karbalaa in his march to Siffien and lined up with Nainawa - a village on the Euphrates - he stopped and called one of them men: Tell aba 'Abdullah (al-Hussain (AS)) what this land is called? He said: Karbala. Then he cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then said: I entered on the messenger of Allah (S) and he was crying. So I said: What makes you cry?

He said: Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son al-Hussain (AS) will be killed at the banks of Furat in a location called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed.”9

From this tradition (hadith) we can see that Imam al-Ali (AS) also wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS). There are more traditions showing that the Holy Prophet (S) wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS).10

Umm Salamah, the wife of the Holy Prophet (S) also wept for Imam al-Hussain (AS).11

Even the Jinns mourned Imam al-Hussain (AS)'s death, it has been reported that after Imam al-Hussain (AS)'s martyrdom, Umm Salamah said: "I heard the Jinns mourning for al-Hussain (AS).”12

In conclusion, we cry for Imam al-Hussain (AS) because so did the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (S). Every year we continue and revive the message of Karbala by mourning and crying over the injustice which the Ahlul Bayt (AS) suffered on the plains of Karbala, and through this we renew our pledge of allegiance to the Imam (AS) and keep his noble cause alive in our hearts.

  • 1. Nadra al-Azdiya, a woman who was contemporary of Imam al –Hussain (AS), is said to have reported: “When al-Hussain b. 'Ali was killed, the sky rained down blood, so that next morning we found our wells and water jugs filled with it.” This hadith is narrated by Ibn Hajar.
  • 2. The Holy Qur'an, Aqa Mirza Mahdi Puya, p. 681, pub. Peermohammed Trust (Pakistan). This hadith is recorded under the tafsir of the verse (19:12-15). Aqa Mahdi Puya says that what is meant by “the heavens wept” (in the hadith of Imam as-Sadiq) is that the sun became extraordinarily red.
  • 3. al-Suyuti reports in his commentary on the verse (19:13) describing Allah's compassion towards the ancient martyr John son of Zachariah that “The heavens did not weep for the death of anyone except John son of Zachariah and al-Hussain b. Ali. Its redness [at sunset] is the sign of its weeping”.
  • 4. The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon (1911), v. 5, pp. 391-2.
  • 5. The Holy Qur'an, (19:58); also refer to (17:109).
  • 6. Thakhaer al-Uqba, Muhibbuldeen al-Tabari, p. 148.
  • 7. al-Mustadrak al-Sahih, al-Hafidh al-Hakim al-Nisapouri, v. 3, p. 176, (al-Hakim said: “This is an authentic hadith (Sahih) on the conditions of Bukhari and Muslim but they did not print it”); Dalael al-Nubouwa, al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqi under the subject of al-Hussain (AS); Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, (Hyderabad, 1971), p. 211-2, the author narrates this hadith using a different chain of narration.
  • 8. al-Musannaf, al-Hafidh abu Bakr bin abi Shaibah, v. 12.
  • 9. al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Musannaf, Ibn Abi Shaibeh, v. 12 (with "Patience aba 'Abdullah, patience aba 'Abdullah"); al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Tabarani, v. 1; Tareekh al-Shamm, Ibn 'Asakir.
  • 10. al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, v. 2, p. 60-61; al-Taba'qat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad; al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Hafidh al-Tabarani (on subject of al-Hussain); A'lam al-Nubuwwah, al-Mawardi al-Shafi 'I; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi.
  • 11. al-Khasa'is, al-Suyuti al-Shafi'I, 2:125; al-Manaqib, al-Magazili, p. 313; al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, 6:294; Tarikh al-Islam, al-Dimishqi, 3:11; al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah, 6:230; al-'Aqd al-Farid, ibn 'Abd Rabbah, 2:219; Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi; Cf. Ibn al-A'tham IV, 212-4; Sahih al- Tirmidhi; Mishkat al-Masabih, an-Nawawi, English Version, Tradition # 6157.
  • 12. Tarikh al-Kabir, al-Bukhari (author of the famous Sahih), v. 4, Part 1, p. 26; Fadha'il al-Sahaba, Amhmad Ibn Hanbal, v. 2, p. 776, tradition # 1373; Tabarani, v. 3, p.130-1; Tahdhib, v. 7, p.404.

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Brother Sindbad, we are not discussing weeping for Imam Hussain a.s, nor we are discussing azadari as a whole. 

The only thing in question is blood matam. Can we give any ratìonal & logical justification for it? If yes, what?

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1 hour ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

322. When Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, returned to Kufah from Siffin he passed by the residences of the Shibamites (who belonged to the tribe of Shibam) and heard the women weeping over those killed in Siffin. At that time a Shibamite, Harb ibn Shurahbil ash-Shibami, who was one of the nobles of those people, came to him, and Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Do your women have control over you as regards the weeping that I hear? Do you not refrain them from this crying? Harb began to walk with him while Amir al-mu'minin was on horseback, so Amir al-mu'minin, peace be upon him, said to him: Get back because the walking of a man like you with one like me is mischief for the ruler and disgrace for the believer.

There are two types of weeping, weeping due to fear of death as Abu Bakar  wept in cave of Hira and Allah AWJ stopped him from such crying. Imam Ali a.s stopped that lady from crying because of this reason and if her weeping would have been that of ladies who wept over Hazrat Hamza a.s then Imam Ali a.s would not have stopped her as it was Sunnah of the Prophet PBUHHP. 

If you cry against Allah, it is Kufur, if you cry for Allah, it is Ibadah. Weeping and Matam over Hussain a.s is as Weeping and Matam over Hazrat Hamzah a.s. 

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15 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Brother Sindbad, we are not discussing weeping for Imam Hussain a.s, nor we are discussing azadari as a whole. 

The only thing in question is blood matam. Can we give any ratìonal & logical justification for it? If yes, what?

I have told you everything rational and logical. But you are unable to understand it bro.

Edited by Sindbad05

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3 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Hussain a.s is sufficient for them to save them from Aids and Cancer. You need not to worry bro. 

So you wanna say Hussein as. can save us today from aids or cancer?

Edited by Muslim96

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32 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

So you wanna say Hussein as. can save us today from aids or cancer?

Why not with the help of Allah AWJ whoever have such sincerity and faith in Allah AWJ and Hussain a.s and ask Imam Hussain a.s, he can intercede and pray for curing persons. I have seen many miracles that those who could not walk can walk and those who could not see can see through the blessings which Allah AWJ has conferred upon the Shrine of Hussain a.s. 

Rest assured full guarantee. 

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48 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

So you wanna say Hussein as. can save us today from aids or cancer?

Did not Esa a.s cured leprosy which was Aids of that time ? Prophet Esa a.s will pray behind the son of Hussain ibn Ali a.s, Mehdi a.s. So, How could not Imam Hussain a.s do this with the help of Allah AWj. 

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33 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Why not with the help of Allah AWJ whoever have such sincerity and faith in Allah AWJ and Hussain a.s and ask Imam Hussain a.s, he can intercede and pray for curing persons. I have seen many miracles that those who could not walk can walk and those who could not see can see through the blessings which Allah AWJ has conferred upon the Shrine of Hussain a.s. 

Rest assured full guarantee. 

Ok now I understand why Sunnis say some Shia make shirk..

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25 minutes ago, Muslim96 said:

Ok now I understand why Sunnis say some Shia make shirk..

If you have understood please make me understand as well, I could not understand that the thing which Allah AWJ has given to Prophets or Imams such as Esa a.s could remove leprosy and bring dead to life, why Sunnis say that Imams cannot do that with the permission of Allah ?????!!!!!

Any Idea ?

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56 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

If you have understood please make me understand as well, I could not understand that the thing which Allah AWJ has given to Prophets or Imams such as Esa a.s could remove leprosy and bring dead to life, why Sunnis say that Imams cannot do that with the permission of Allah ?????!!!!!

Any Idea ?

Because Imams were human like you and me. Yes they were the best humans and yes they were wise and special but they has no superpowers. Not even Prophet Muhammad sas. could heal. Only Allah swt. can do that. It is sad that sometimes the prejudices the sunni brothers sometimes really have a reason for those prejudices..

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8 hours ago, Muslim96 said:

Because Imams were human like you and me. Yes they were the best humans and yes they were wise and special but they has no superpowers. Not even Prophet Muhammad sas. could heal. Only Allah swt. can do that. It is sad that sometimes the prejudices the sunni brothers sometimes really have a reason for those prejudices..

They have no reason for such prejudices. Prophet PBUHHP said on various ocassions in Hadith that they were not human like us. It is reported in various narrations of the people that Prophet PBUHHP has no shadow and he could see in front as he could see behind. In Quran, Allah says: "Find a means to attain nearness to Allah AWJ". They have the merit to help us approve our prayers urgent because they are loved by Allah AWJ. If by their duas we are cured, it is not out of Islam because Prophets have previously done that and it is in Quran. 

We believe that whatever Prophets and Imams could do, is due to the permission of Allah AWJ. And without Him, they could not do anything. However, on the other hand, Allah AWJ himself has said in Quran: "On the day of the Judgement, Allah AWJ would not speak to sinners". So, how could you or I expect ourselves to be so pure that God would listen to us more than God would listen to his Prophet PBUHHP and His family who remained so loyal to message of Islam and were obedient to Allah throughout their lives for which Allah has said obtain means to get nearer to God. 

I am convinced that you are one among those who have not understood fully what we believe and have yet reached to conclusion without further thought over the issues, this could be because either you dislike Shias or you are Sunni yourself.  Whatever be the case, you are wrong brother. 

Wasallam. 

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21 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

They have no reason for such prejudices. Prophet PBUHHP said on various ocassions in Hadith that they were not human like us. It is reported in various narrations of the people that Prophet PBUHHP has no shadow and he could see in front as he could see behind. In Quran, Allah says: "Find a means to attain nearness to Allah AWJ". They have the merit to help us approve our prayers urgent because they are loved by Allah AWJ. If by their duas we are cured, it is not out of Islam because Prophets have previously done that and it is in Quran. 

We believe that whatever Prophets and Imams could do, is due to the permission of Allah AWJ. And without Him, they could not do anything. However, on the other hand, Allah AWJ himself has said in Quran: "On the day of the Judgement, Allah AWJ would not speak to sinners". So, how could you or I expect ourselves to be so pure that God would listen to us more than God would listen to his Prophet PBUHHP and His family who remained so loyal to message of Islam and were obedient to Allah throughout their lives for which Allah has said obtain means to get nearer to God. 

I am convinced that you are one among those who have not understood fully what we believe and have yet reached to conclusion without further thought over the issues, this could be because either you dislike Shias or you are Sunni yourself.  Whatever be the case, you are wrong brother. 

Wasallam. 

Brother there is some misunderstanding when we say there is some special powers to Imams. 

Why should imam have special power. 

What is its use. When wilI imam use these power. 

It has nothing to do with Shia sunni misconception. 

@Muslim96.Yes Imams are like us human being but they access to the knowledge of Allah. And is used only according to permission and will of Allah. 

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27 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Brother there is some misunderstanding when we say there is some special powers to Imams. 

Why should imam have special power. 

What is its use. When wilI imam use these power. 

It has nothing to do with Shia sunni misconception. 

@Muslim96.Yes Imams are like us human being but they access to the knowledge of Allah. And is used only according to permission and will of Allah. 

Why did Moses a.s have a hand that could turn into silvery light ? Why was Yousuf so beautiful that ladies cut their hands. Why did Jesus a.s have such breath that it could make non-living things living ? Are you questioning Allah AWJ, why they had ? These are special attributes, God gives them whom He likes. 

There is no questioning from God unless you think that He is under your authority bro. 

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9 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Why did Moses a.s have a hand that could turn into silvery light ? Why was Yousuf so beautiful that ladies cut their hands. Why did Jesus a.s have such breath that it could make non-living things living ? Are you questioning Allah AWJ, why they had ? These are special attributes, God gives them whom He likes. 

There is no questioning from God unless you think that He is under your authority bro. 

No.My question is not why they have. I am saying that interpretation of have superpower knowledge. Is there any benefit for those who have it.who Is superior those have supernatural power and those who do not have. 

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

No.My question is not why they have. I am saying that interpretation of have superpower knowledge. Is there any benefit for those who have it.who Is superior those have supernatural power and those who do not have. 

The power or authority which they have been granted by God has meaning that they are the seals of God. What they say has been ordered by God, they through the miracles seal the fact that they are the actual vicegerents whom God has delegated authority to interpret His orders and teach them Wisdom. 

Why have you neglected such great meaning ? 

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2 hours ago, islam25 said:

No.My question is not why they have. I am saying that interpretation of have superpower knowledge. Is there any benefit for those who have it.who Is superior those have supernatural power and those who do not have. 

Indeed, Prophets are superior to ordinary humans in terms of spirituality and obedience to God that is why they are given such trust of Prophethood and given miracles to seal that fact.

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Indeed, Prophets are superior to ordinary humans in terms of spirituality and obedience to God that is why they are given such trust of Prophethood and given miracles to seal that fact.

That what I say.

Prophets are superior not because they have supernatural power. But for different reason. 

Even if ordinary person too have supernatural power doesn't make him superior. 

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    • If you mean about Moses speaking to God (which I probably think this was the story, though never knew the bush was not consumed), then it was a miracle. A miracle is : An extraordinary and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore attributed to a divine agency. That is what we call "Tawaqqu' al-mustaqbal" predicting the future, and it is haram/Forbidden to do, and the nice thing is they mostly don't work, unless it was a "wild" guess, as some call it. Though the Prophet (sawa) once predicted future events more than 1 time, and all of them came true, you interested? Again, if the "angels"(which I think you mean) were to appear they wouldn't appear from their own will, God wants them to appear. Again, God is: the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being. So God can basically break the laws, which he himself created, when he wants, as they don't apply to him.   Though angels in Islam aren't the winged angels, they are some sort of "Spirits" of  unknown nature. The word "Mala'ika" means the "heavenly" ones, or the ones who always obey. So again not the winges creatures like the Christian/Jewish thoughts. Though they could possibly lift themselves through the means/ways of aerodynamics. Only God knows.   This one happened, I think it was by Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib (a), he basically puts the amputated part, on the other, and joins them together.  I have seen the name "Allah" once through a cloud, not sure if it is going to help though. Well, it is pretty hard to do so. 
    • What? That's crazy. People who think like that need self esteem, not employment. 
    • All the above activity,  but this( post below )  is not possible http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=11&tab=comments#comment-3098307 Your answer was I responded to you, "Seal of the Prophets, Prophet Muhammad al Mustafa, (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) the best of the creation, the best example to follow for you, the one who has more right on you then you yourself. Is off limits to your conversations? its a deal breaker. So, who's Sunnah are you using/ discussing/ following as a role model in formulating your plans for the Caliphate?  It seems like its a political meeting, for political power struggle.  ***** Above should be clear enough. Lets talk about, this notion of Social Unity, Political Unity, which is foreign to Islam. As Islam is not a personal relationship with Ones version of god. Its a way of like, which incorporates, individual, social, economic political aspects. So we do not have a concept of Social Unity, ot political Unity and lets leave the religion alone for now. This is a secular concept.  Your stated goals for the Social & Political unity is the Common enemy. This is a foreign playbook, that we do not follow. يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنْكُمْ ۖ فَإِنْ تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأَحْسَنُ تَأْوِيلًا {59} [Pickthal 4:59] O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger and those of you who are in authority; and if ye have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the messenger if ye are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more seemly in the end. So, let come to the Messenger, and understand what is our true Religion. I mentioned it Page 4 of this Thread,we are at page 11. with a lot of distraction(s) in between. http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235006908-sunnis-and-shias-can-we-just-unite/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-3097753 Read the post above the one posted here, on page 4.  Read and understand this, and review the life to see what was the Common enemy at that time, it was not a foreign enemy. Follow the Sunnah of the Truthful.  Abu Sa'íd al-Khudari reports that one day we were sitting waiting for the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) to come out. He came to us while we saw that the strap of his shoe was broken; he gave it to 'Ali to repair. Then he said, "One of you will wage war for the interpretation (ta'wíl) of the Qur'an just as I waged war for its revelation (tanzíl)." Abu Bakr said, "Am I the one?" The Prophet said, "No." Then 'Umar said, "Am I the one?" The Prophet said, "No, but the one who is repairing the shoe."15 https://www.al-islam.org/shiism-imamate-and-wilayat-sayyid-muhammad-rizvi/knowledge-ahlul-bayt#6-concept-al-quran-natiq ***** You can have your plan an work it, try working with GCC and OPEC, if you ever succeed here, go for a Islamic Union.( social, political, economic, go for common currency) as a start. Fix the problem within, before going after the External Common enemy. Another thing, we did not have any such deals here , that "Seal of the Prophets, Prophet Muhammad al Mustafa, (peace be upon him and his pure progeny) the best of the creation, the best example to follow for you, the one who has more right on you then you yourself. Is off limits to our conversations? So, you have said you peace and given your plan, let us have an academic discussion.
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