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Why we do matam?

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:06 AM, Salsabeel said:

Well, why not everyone do zanjir zani & qama zani? 

On 9/7/2017 at 10:02 AM, Sindbad05 said:

It depends upon everyone's own domain of beliefs who am I to judge them. However, if they do not weep for Hussain a.s then for me they are not lovers of Prophet PBUHHP. If anyone weeps for Hussain a.s whether Shia or Sunni, I consider it to be his or her matam.

On 9/7/2017 at 10:06 AM, Salsabeel said:

Yes it is. One is natural way to expressing emotions.We have logical & rational answers/justifications/reasons for that.

Blood matam is something different. 

Well, bro, I already explained you that it is old traditions that people hit their head or put soil in their head and it is also hit their chests and thighs as Prophets did. And there is one famous narration for Imam e Zaman a.s which sunni says, according to them Imam e Zamana a.s will be a person who would have difficulty in speech like Prophet Moses a.s and while saying words sometimes he will feel difficulty and therefore in anger hit his thigh. We Shias do not have such belief but Sunni brothers have this. 

Also it is narrated that Prophet PBUHHP appeared in the dream of Bibi Umm-e-Salema a.s at the day of martydom of Imam Hussain a.s in such a way that his hair were as if soil is poured onto them and He PBUHHP said that Hussain has been Martyred in Karbala. There are various kinds of showing sorrow and matam is one of them. 

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

There are 100% logical & rational reasons that we should quit the practice of blood matam.

A group of shirt less people, when do zanjir zani, droplets of one's blood goes on the back of others. Any one infected with hepatitas or Aids, can cause the disease to spread to others.

Zanjir zani & qama zani is not the pillar of azadari or religion. Be soft in your approach brother.

Hussain a.s is sufficient for them to save them from Aids and Cancer. You need not to worry bro. 

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7 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Yeah, for you it could be that but I believe that faith requires sincerity and it is showed through Processions for Imam Hussain a.s and doing Matam and Noha for Imam Hussain a.s. Sincerity weighs your faith not words. 

You know that the matter in question is zanjir zani or blood matam. Why involving all sha'aeer in defending the blood matam?

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

You know that the matter in question is zanjir zani or blood matam. Why involving all sha'aeer in defending the blood matam?

You did not stop at Zanjir Zani but also said that hitting with hands is not good, Did you talk of one issue ?

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22 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Perhaps it is easy to hit ownself than hitting the enemies of Ahlul Bayt (a.s).

You are not even in favor of Matamdari?

Edited by SIAR14

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2 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

You are not even in favor of Matamdari?

Who said that? I am against blood matam which now started to take new forms. People started doing matam with gurz, shaving blades etc. 

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

Who said that? I am against blood matam which now started to take new forms. People started doing matam with gurz, shaving blades etc. 

Did not you say that Bibi Sarah hit her face once or twice or thrice and not all years ?  What does that prove brother ?

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46 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Dont get angry brother, she hit her face once or twice or thrice. She never made it a tradition to beat her face every year on the day when angels gave her the glad tidings of a son.

See above bro.

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

Brother, you are extremists and not them, did any person came out from among those who do Zanjir zani and forced you to do Zanjir Zani ? No, but you are trying to force upon them. 

Am I forcing you or even advised you not to do anything. I have given my opinion that we dont have any rational & logical justification for blood matam.

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2 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Who said that? I am against blood matam which now started to take new forms. People started doing matam with gurz, shaving blades etc. 

Then please let other explain why shias do Matam and why it is important for us, so our brother can get appropriate answer. 

Edited by SIAR14

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2 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

Then please let other explain why shias do Matam and why it is important for us, so our brother can get appropriate answer. 

Ok, here is the question, why we do blood matam? i.e., zanjir zani, qama zani, blade zani, gurz zani etc.

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

You gave the wrong example for justifying matam. I have just pointed out that.

Now, I am wrong alright. Listen, even marajas do not speak on Zanjir Zani and they say that it depends upon one's belief to do it or not to do it. There are various hadith in this regards as well for them to adopt such decision.

Ayoutullah Khoi has said that Zanjir Zani is ok if it does not leads to cause health issues. So, every person has heard it and know it. It is matter of individual responsibility and action, you and I do not have anything to teach to people and neither will they listen. They listen Marajas. If they do excessive than what they are told, sin is upon them. 

It may happen that one for out of love of Hussain a.s hits his back and Imam Hussain a.s loves his sincerity for which you have no knowledge. So, I am stopping you just because of that. If you want to tell your fatwas bro. go on. I will not stop you again. over and out.

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On 9/7/2017 at 8:01 AM, Sindbad05 said:

Matam is something that has been done by Prophets as well. Prophet Jacob a.s wept for Prophet Joseph a.s. Bibi Sarah a.s hit her face with the hands when she knew that she would have baby in old age. And in history books it is written that Bibi Hajra a.s died in short time after she saw the line made by the knife on the throat of Prophet Ismael a.s. Bibi Ayesha also did matam at the demise of Prophet PBUHHP and Prophet PBUHHP did matam on the demise of Hazrat Hamza a.s and Hazrat Abu Talib a.s and Hazrat Bibi Khadeja a.s.

In history its also written that Prophet saw prohibited beating ones face, chest, thighs etc in state of grief. If someone did it out of ignorance or out of sudden calamity once or twice on the spot then it do not make it legitimatic.

On 9/7/2017 at 9:34 AM, Sindbad05 said:

If you are searching logic in Quran then please read about Bibi Sarah a.s why did she hit her face.

And if it is about Zanjir Zani then no any Maraja except Ayotullah Khamanei has prohibited it. And also you could learn about Hadith where Prophet Adam a.s hit his thigh and blood gushed out of his leg.

Secondly, my opinion regarding Zanjir Zani depends upon your love with Ahlebait a.s and according to Islam such as if one is doing it just to please people or show girls how powerful he is to endure such pain, then it is huge sin which will displease Allah AWJ. Also it should not be done before infants who are unable to understand what it is. However, if one does for feeling the pain of Imam Hussain a.s then it is not a Sin brother. 

She never repeated this again and neither her children made it a tradition and celeberated annually.

Maraja? What about ahlebayt?

I am not sure about any other wound of ahlebayt at karbala that what happened and what not except the fact that they were beheaded. So go ahead and do the same and show your love for ahlebayt and feel their real pain.

On 9/7/2017 at 9:42 AM, Sindbad05 said:

The point is whether she hit her or not? She hit her out of grief and it showed that if there is grief and one hit himself out of grief, it is not impermissible before God unless if it cause health issues. Please notify me if Allah criticized her for that action. 

Angels criticised her.

On 9/7/2017 at 9:43 AM, Sindbad05 said:

[4:148] Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Hurtful speeches meaning sadness or complaints such as we Shias do processions for Imam Hussain a.s.

This verse says by one not for one. ANd its about speech not matam by hands or zanjeer etc. And the next verse 149 is about pardoning. Forgiving is superior state of Iman than cursing.

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:31 AM, Sindbad05 said:

Now, I am wrong alright. Listen, even marajas do not speak on Zanjir Zani and they say that it depends upon one's belief to do it or not to do it

:) That is why I said that we dont have any rational & logical reason.

On 9/7/2017 at 10:31 AM, Sindbad05 said:

Ayoutullah Khoi has said that Zanjir Zani is ok if it does not leads to cause health issues.

Why he was concerened about health issue? He must have said what you said to me when I raised the issue of infectious diseases.

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:33 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:

In history its also written that Prophet saw prohibited beating ones face, chest, thighs etc in state of grief. If someone did it out of ignorance or out of sudden calamity once or twice on the spot then it do not make it legitimatic.

Prophet PBUHHP stopped people from hitting each other's face in fight brother. But for your information, I would like to share some religious content along with references 

Matam (Beating of chests & Face): It is recorded in Madarij-un-Nubuwwat (Vol. II, page 163) that when Shaitan announced a lie that the Prophet was killed (in the Battle of Uhud), the Hashimite women, including the Lady of Paradise - Fatima Zahra (AS) - came out weeping, beating their chests & faces. The same book also records that after the death of Prophet, some of the companions wept & cried so much that they lost their eyesight. This is also recorded in "Kitab Mathabata-Bis-Sunnah". (Page 119).

 

Following is also a great summary from Shia-pen.

Chapter Nine: Hitting one’s body in grief

This is one of the favourite areas of exploitation for the Nasibi and they enjoy making fun and insisting that these practises are against the Shari’ah. They serve as further evidence that the Shi’a are a deviated Sect. Since they adhere to Umar ibn al Khattab’s way famed for his words ‘the Qur’an is sufficient for us’ lets turn the tables on them. They keep asking us to prove our mourning rituals from the Qur’an such as crying, chest beating etc.We ask them to cite us any verse containing the words Matam, Latmiyah (blood letting) wherein Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has declared such practices to be Haraam. No where in the Holy Qur’an has Matam been classified as Haraam. On the contrary, the stories of Prophets include examples of their mourning. As such, the permissibility of Matam is there in Qur’an but not its prohibition. Thus an act, for which there is no restriction of any kind by Islamic Laws, becomes permissible. It is Nasibi who have lied by stating that Matam is against patience and call only for patience instead!

Mourning rituals and self harm as found in the Qur’an

We read in Surah Nisa 004.148:

YUSUFALI: Allah loveth not that evil should be noised abroad in public speech, except where injustice hath been done; for Allah is He who heareth and knoweth all things.

This verse makes it clear that the public’s relaying of injustice is permissible. Relaying the suffering of a victim is permissible.

Major efforts are made to prove that the term mourning is proof that Matam is Haraam under the Shari’ah. On the contrary breast-beating, bloods letting all come within the term mourning and its purpose is to convey the pains inflicted on the victim, something which the Quran has sanctioned. We the Shi’a perform all these acts as Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى has permitted us to do so, and the opposition of Nasibi is only on account for their love and support for Imam Husayn (as)’s killers.

Mourning and shedding blood is the Sunnah of Prophet Adam (as)

We read in Ahl’ul Sunnah’s authority work Ma’arij al Nubuwwah, Chapter 1 page 248:

“Adam was so distressed that he smashed his hands onto his knees and the skin from his hands caused gashes from which bone could be seen”.

Those who deem the act of self-harm to be batil should look at the bloodletting actions of Adam (as). If Adam (as) can do this why cannot the Shi’a when mourning for Imam Husayn (as)?

Mourning and hitting one self is the Sunnah of the Prophet (s)

As evidence we shall cite the following works:

  1. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 446
  2. Sunan al Nasai, Volume 3 page 305
  3. Adaab al Mufarad, page 426
  4. Sahih Muslim Volume 1 page 291
  5. Musnad Abu Aawna, Volume 2 page 292

We read in Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated ‘Ali bin Abi Talib:
That Allah’s Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah’s Apostle at their house at night and said, “Won’t you pray?” ‘Ali replied, “O Allah’s Apostle! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up.” When ‘Ali said that to him, Allah’s Apostle left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet was leaving, ‘Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, “But man is quarrelsome more than anything else.” (18.54)

Ibn Hajr Asqalani in the commentary of this tradition in Fatah al Bari, Volume 3 page 11 writes:

قوله يضرب فخذه فيه جواز ضرب الفخذ عند التأسف

“His statement ‘striking his thigh’ shows the permission of striking the thigh to express the grief”

If hitting oneself is Haraam then what Fatwa do the Nawasib have for the Prophet (s)? The Pillar of Shari’ah is himself hitting his chest, so if the Shi’a do the same, why are their actions Batil?

Thigh beating is the Sunnah of Maula Ali (as)

We read in Tauhfa Ithna Ashari page 523 published in Karachi:

“When Ayesha was defeated and Ali saw the corpses on the ground he began to beat his thighs”
Tauhfa Ithna Ashari, page 523

These Nasibi claim that hitting one’s chest is Batil, if this were true what view should we have of Rasulullah (s), Adam (as) and Maula ‘Ali (as)?

Thigh beating is the Sunnah of Sahaba

We are relying upon the following Sunni books:

  1. Musnad Abu Awana, Volume 2 page 141
  2. Sunan Nasai, Volume 3 page 12
  3. Sunan Abu Daud, Volume 1 page 244

“Mu’awyia bin Hakam al-Sulami said: ‘I was preforming prayers behind Allah’s messenger (pbuh) then a man sneezed, thus I said to him: ‘May Allah’s mercy be upon you’. Thus the people looked at me, then I said to my self: ‘O my, why are you looking at me?’ Then they started striking their thighs, therefore I came to know that they want me to remain silent’”.
This Hadith has been recorded by Albaani in his ‘Sahih Sunan Abu Daud’ Volume 1 page 175 Hadith 823

Before deeming self harm to be Haram, perhaps Nawasib should take a closer look at the acts of the Sahaba. The Sahaba’s hitting their thighs and the silence of the Prophet (s) proves that such acts of distress are not haraam. It’s amusing that these Nasibi Mullah’s never raise questions on any action of the Sahaba whether good or bad but they find fault with every act of the Shi’a. If the act of the Sahaba’s beating themselves is not Haram then the Shi’as act of beating themselves should not be construed as Haram either.

Proof of head beating from the Qur’an

In Surah adh-Dhaariyaat we read that Sara (as) struck her face when she was told that she would conceive a baby.

“Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?”
Quran 51:29

“Faskat” does not just mean rub or touch, it means slap and this is evidenced from Sahih Muslim Book 030, Number 5851, Bab Fadail Musa:

Abu Hurraira reported that the Angel of Death was sent to Moses (peace be upon him) to inform of his Lord’s summons. When he came, he (Moses) boxed him [Sakka] and his eye was knocked out. He (the Angel of Death) came back to the Lord and said: You sent me to a servant who did not want to die. Allah restored his eye to its proper place (and revived his eyesight), and then said: Go back to him and tell him that if he wants life he must place his hand on the back of an ox, and he would be granted as many years of life as the number of hair covered by his hand. He (Moses) said: My Lord what would happen then He said: Then you must court death. He said: Let it be now. And he supplicated Allah to bring him close to the sacred land. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: If I were there, I would have shown you his grave beside the road at the red mound.

This has also been reported in Sahih Bukhari, Book 23 Volume 2, Book 23, Number 423, Book of Funerals.

The slapping of Prophet Ibraheem (as)’s wife Sara is proven from the Qur’an. The Qur’an tells us to adhere to the ways of the people of Ibraheem (as), so if the Shi’a beat themselves whilst mourning for Imam Husayn (as) such acts are lawful.

Beating oneself at a time of distress is the Sunnah of Prophet Adam (as)

We read in Madarij al Nubuwah, page 221:

“When life was breathed into the spirit of Adam he hit his hand on his head and cried. He made this tradition of beating one’s head with one’s hand and crying in times of trouble for his descendants.”

Hitting one’s head in times of trouble is the Sunnah of Prophet Yusuf (as)

We read in Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 9 page 98:

قيل إن جبريل عليه السلام دخل على يوسف عليه السلام حينما كان في السجن فقال إن بصر أبيك ذهب من الحزن عليك فوضع يده على رأسه وقال : ليت أمي لم تلدني ولم أك حزناً على أبي

“It has been said that when Gebrail (pbuh) went to Yusuf (pbuh) in jail he (Gebrail) said to him: ‘Your father has become blind due to the grief for you. Thus he (Yusuf) put his hand on his head and said: ‘I wish if my mother didn’t give birth to me and there would not have been the reason for my father’s grief.”

We have proven that the acts of hitting one’s head are not Jahiliyya or Un-Islamic.In fact it is the Sunnah of Prophets Adam (as) and Yusuf (as).

The Shi’a mourn Imam Husayn (as) as a form of remembrance. We seek to remember and share his suffering and pain, since assisting one in trouble is a recommended (Mustahab) act and a kind of worship. We also deem mourning and presenting our sincerity to Imam Husayn (as) to be a form of worship.

Beating oneself in times of trouble is the Sunnah of Umar

We read in Ahl’ul Sunnah’s authority work Aqd al Fareed, Volume 1 page 342:

ولما نُعي النًّعمان بن مُقَرَّن إلى عمر بن الخطاب وضع يدَه على رأسه وصاح يا أسفي على النعمان

When Umar received news of the death of Numan ibn Muqran, he placed his hand on his head and wailed: ‘O my grief for Numan!’

We find a similar narration in Kanz al Ummal, Vol.8, Page 117, Kitab al Maut:

When Omar heard of Nu’man ibn Muqran’s death he beat his head and screamed, “O what a pity that Nu’man died”.

When Umar mourns the death of his friend in such a way, the descendents of Mu’awiya remain silent, but if the Shi’a mourn Imam Husayn (as) through such an act they are deemed Kaffirs. If Nasibis wish to accuse us of introducing Bidah into the religion then they should know that Umar introduced this long before the Rafidis! If such acts of hitting oneself and extreme wailing are prohibited then what was your Khalifa indulging in this act for?

Beating and mourning by the wives of the Sahaba

Before we expand on this reality let us begin by citing words that we had previously cited from

Ibn al Hashimi who claims:

Additionally–and this point cannot be stressed enough–there were many Sahabah who were killed in the Path of Allah, but the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) never mourned their deaths in the manner in which the Shia mourn Hussain (رضّى الله عنه). The Prophet lost his own dear uncle, his own wife, and many of his dearest companions, but do we see that the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) ever resorted to self-flagellation or excessive mourning? The Shia can never provide such an example from the life of the Prophet (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم), probably not even from Shia sources. Therefore, we find that it is not part of the Sunnah to mourn in such an uncivilized manner and we shall never take part in it because of this.

Let us refute this Nasibi by citing Allamah Shibli Numani al Hanafi is a renowned Sunni scholar from the Indian subcontinent. In his Sirat-un Nabi (Eng translation Volume 2 pg 74) quoting Sirat Ibn Hisham we read the following about Hamzah (as) martyrdom:

“The Holy Prophet (P) returned to Madina and found the whole city gone into mourning. Whenever he went, he heard wailing and lamentation in every house. He was grieved to find that all who were martyred in the battle had their mourners doing their duty to the memory of their dear ones. But there was none to mourn the death of Hamzah (ra). Overwhelmed with grief, the words that there was no one to mourn the loss of Hamzah escaped his lips. The Ansâris were touched to the core when they heard this remark from the Prophet(s). They asked their women to go to the house of the Prophet (S) and mourn for Hamzah. The Prophet (p) thanked them for their sympathy, prayed for their well-being, but added that it was not permissible to lament in memory of the dead. (Women in Arabia were used to wailing and lamenting aloud, they would tear off their garments, dig their nails into their cheeks, slap themselves on the face and put up loud screams. This undesirable practice was from that day stopped for future)”

Nawasib such as Ibn al-Hashimi will no doubt take heart from the last few lines so let us pass a comment on them:

Observation One

Whilst these words are not acceptable for being contradictory to previous lines of the narration, our readers should also know that the words ‘it is not permissible to lament in memory of the dead’ is an addition that cannot be found in other history books.

We read in the History of Tabari Volume 7 page 137:

“The Messenger of God passed by a settlement of the Ansar of the Banu Abdal al-Ashhal and Zafat and heard sounds of lamentation and women weeping. The Messenger of God’s eyes filled with tears and he wept, but then he said “Yet Hamzah has no women weeping for him”. When Saad bin Muadh and Usayd b. Hudayr came back to the settlement of the Banu Abdal al-Ashhal, they told the women to gird themselves up and go and weep for the Messenger of God’s uncle”.
History of Tabari Volume 7 page 137

History of Tabari Volume 7 page 137 

Al Muhaddith Shah Abdul Haqq Dehlavi in ‘Madarij un Nabuwat’ records the event as follows:

“When Holy Prophet (s) reached Madina, he saw that cries could be heard from most of the houses of Ansaar (the helpers) but not from Hamza’s house. Holy Prophet (s) said that wasn’t there anyone to cry over Hamza? The helpers (Ansaar) asked their women to mourn over Hamza first and then they may go and cry over their own martyr. The women went to Hamza’s house in the evening and kept crying till midnight. When Holy Prophet(s) woke up and asked about it, he was told the whole thing. Holy Prophet(s) blessed them by saying” May Allah be pleased with you and your children.”
Madarij un Nabuwat, volume 2 page 179

It has been similarly recorded in Al-Isti’ab that after Holy Prophet’s query, “none of the wives of the helpers cried over their own dead but cried for Hamza”,

Therefore through no tradition, reference or logic can it be proved that Holy Prophet (s) stopped Ummah from crying over the death of their dear ones.

Observation Two

Our assertion that the words “It is not permissible to mourn over the dead” is a later addition is confirmed when we observe the first edition of Shibli Numani’s work. We relied on the Urdu to English translation of Numani’s work. Of interest is the fact that the part in brackets wherein the practice of mourning is condemned was added in later editions. The original statement as narrated in the first edition is mentioned above. Look at this report from “Seerat Un Nabi” part 1, page 361, published in 1975 by “Deeni Kutb Khana Islami, Lahore.”

“Holy Prophet (s) reached Madina, the whole of Madina had turned into a mourning place, his Excellency could hear voices of people mourning from every house, and Holy Prophet (s) felt grieved that all martyrs were being cried upon by their relatives but there was no one to mourn over Hamza. In severe grief he said: “Isn’t there anyone to cry over Hamza?” The Helpers (Ansaar) palpitated when they heard this and therefore all of them asked their wives to go and mourn over Hamza’s martyrdom. When Holy Prophet(s) saw that the females of Ansaar (the helpers) were mourning for Hamza, he blessed them and thanked them for their sympathy but he further said “It is not permissible to cry over dead.”

After this a whole paragraph from “This was a tradition in Arabia” till “intense love for Hamza” has been removed from the frst edition and further replaced by this new statement. This is the ingenuity of Syed Salman Nadvi who completed this book of his teacher (Shabli Naumani) after his death. This new paragraph is not present in the first edition.

“Women in Arabia were used to wailing and lamenting aloud, they would tear off their garments, dig their nails into their cheeks, slap themselves on the face and put up loud screams. This undesirable practice was from that day stopped for future”.

The Urdu/Arabic alphabet “seen” in the text denotes that this statement was not present in the earlier edition and Syed Suleman Nadvi added it afterwards. Later editions simply removed th ‘Seen’ so as to imply that these words were those of Numani!

Observation Three

Whilst this shows how dishonest these Nasibi are, let us also address the comments of Nadvi:

  1. If Lamenting were Haraam why would the Prophet (s) be sad on the fact that no one was mourning his slain Uncle?
  2. Why would the Prophet (s) allow the women to do something that is Haraam? (i,e mourning for their own dead ones)
  3. If as Numani tells that this was a common practice amongst Arab women and the Prophet banned it, this prohibition would have definitely received maximum publicity.

Observation Four

Even if it is believed that Holy Prophet (s) did say ‘It is not permissible to cry over the dead’ such a statement would not effect our mourning because Imam Husayn (as) is a martyr and it is forbidden to call them dead. Such restrictions are for those who die a natural death not those who are slain in the way of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى.

Observation Five

The reference makes it clear that our Holy Prophet (s) paid gratitude to those who consoled and mourned over Hamza’s martyrdom. He approved of this act and blessed them with his prayers. Had it been a prohibited act the Prophet (s) would never have shown gratitude. This gratitude strengthens our point that the words ‘It is not permissible to cry over the dead’ has no correlation with the incident. Rather Syed Suleman Nadvi amended the statements in order to cover up Allamah Shibli Numani’s blunder.

The mourning of Hamza did not just end there; we have already cited the fact that the Holy Prophet (s) and the three Caliphs’ would visit the graves of the martyrs every year.

The next tradition in effect negates any notion of the Prophet’s (s) banning such acts…

Beating and mourning by the wives of the Prophet (s) over his (s) death

Curiously, not a single wife of the Prophet (s) ever heard of this ban (as claimed by Nadvi in the previous reference). On the contrary Ayesha regarded by Ahl’ul Sunnah as the most knowledgeable women on Qur’an and Sunnah performed the following act when the Prophet (s) left this earth.

As narrated by al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183 (English translation by Ismail Poonawala):

Abbas narrates:
“I heard Ayesha saying “The Messenger of God died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of God died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women”.

Ibn Katheer al Nasibi in al Bidayah wa al Nihayah Volume 5 page 420 published by Nafees Academy Karachi records the event as follows:

“Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women”.
1. Bidayah wa al Nihayah (Urdu), Volume 5, page 420
2. Sirah Ibn Ishaq, page 713 (declared ‘Hasan’)
3. Sirah Ibn Hisham, Volume 4 page 655
4. Musnad Abi Yala, Vol 8 page 63 Hadith 4586 (Hussain Salim Asad declared it ‘Hasan’ and stated that that the same tradition is recorded in Musnad Ahmad with ‘Sahih’ chain) 
5. Irawa al-Ghalil, Volume 7 page 86 (Declared ‘Hasan’ by Al-Albaani)

Likewise we read in Imta al-Asma by Maqrezi, Volume 2 page 137:

وقد قامت أمهات المؤمنين يلتدمن على صدورهن وقد وضعن الجلابيب على رؤوسهن ونساء الأنصار يضربن الوجوه وقد بحت حلوقهن من الصياح

“The mothers of believers began to hit their chests and put veil upon their heads, while the women of Ansar were hitting their faces and their voice got hoarse due to crying.”

Do we need to say any more? Would the wives of the Prophet (s) indulge in a Haraam activity? Look at the beating ritual by the women of Madina. Ibn Katheer mentions how extreme that beating was that their faces reddened with slapping. What do the Nasibi say about these women? Were they evil Rafidi innovators lead by Ayesha?

Beating and mourning by the wives of the Prophet (s) upon the tragic news that he (s) had divorced them

We read in Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 2 page 534 Hadith 4669:

قالوا: تذاكرنا عن شأن عائشة وحفصة وشأن سودة ، فقال عمر أتاني عبدالله بن عمر وأنا في بعض حشوش المدينة فقال ان النبي طلق نساءه قال عمر فدخلت على حفصة وهي قائمة تلتدم ونساء النبي قائمات يلتدمن

 They said: ‘We were talking about the case of Ayesha and Hafsa and the case of Sauda, thus Umar said: ‘I was in a garden in Madina when Abdullah bin Umar approached me and informed me that the Prophet had divorced his wives’. Umar added: ‘Then I went to Hafsa and saw her standing on her feet mourning (Taltedem) and the wives of the prophet were standing on their feet and mourning (Yaltademn)’.

 In his footnote of the said tradition Bakri Hayani states:

يلتدمن: أي يضربن صدورهن في النياحة. انتهى.قاموس

 Yaltademn: Means hitting on their chests and whining.

As one can see from this narration, the wives of the Prophet (s) beat their chests in unison upon receipt of the tragic news that Rasulullah (s) had divorced them.  If today’s Nawasib have umbrage with the Shia practice of collective chest beating, deeming it an act of Bidah that contravenes the Sunnah, then we invite them to first issue a fatwa against the Mother of the Believers who partook in a collective chest beating ceremony.

Beating and mourning by Uthman’s wives and daughter over his death

We read in Tareekh Kamil Volume 3 page 89:

“When Uthman was killed his killers intended to sever his head. His wives Naila and Umm’ul Baneen lay over him screamed and began to beat their faces”

Narrations also record that Uthman’s daughter also acted likewise. As evidence we shall rely on the following Sunni works:

  1. Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 7 page 371
  2. Tareekh Tabari, Volume 6 page 302
  3. Tareekh Aathim Kufi, page 159

“Ibn Jareer narrates that when the killer intended to sever Uthman’s head, the women began to scream and strike their faces. This included Uthman’s wives Naila, Ummul Baneen and daughter”.
Al Bidayah wa al Nihaya, Volume 7, page 371

If the wives of Uthman can mourn Uthman’s killing in this way then the Shi’a of Maula ‘Ali (as) can likewise mourn the slaying of Imam Husayn (as) in this way.

The mourning of Fatima al-Zahra (as)

In Madarij al Nubuwwh, Vol 2, page 163, the high ranking Sunni Scholar, Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddith Dehlavi recorded that:

“Fatima Zahra (as) hearing the rumour of the martyrdom of the Holy Prophet (s) at Uhud came out of her house running and beating her head”.

Does it not transpire from the above that beating of head during the act of mourning for a martyr is allowed by the religion as Sayyida (as) was well aware of the religious code and was also infallible according to Ayah Tatheer (33:33). In addition an action of any member of Ahl’ul bayt is a Sunnah for the Ithna Ashari Shi’as. Thus mourning is not bidah but is a Sunnah of Sayyida Fatima al-Zahra (as).

The mourning of Abu Hurraira

We shall rely on the following Sunni works:

  1. Adaab al Mufarad, page 426
  2. Sunan Ibn Majah, page 30

The narrator says that he saw Abu Hurrayra hitting his forehead and said ‘o people of Iraq could you even imagine that I would lie about the Prophet?’

Abu Huraryra’s act here was out of shock and distress. If this Sahabi can act in such a manner then no fault should be found with the Shi’a when they mourn the loss of Imam Husayn (as) by hitting themselves.

The mourning of Bilal (ra)

We read in Madarij al Nubuwah, Volume 2 page 441, whilst discussing the death of the Prophet (s):

“When the situation of the Prophet worsened, Bilal emerged beating his head and loudly wailing,’I wish my mother had not given birth to me, and that if she had I wish that I had died before this day’”

Why did Bilal fail to adopt patience, an act that the Nasibi deem compulsory? Was the Muazzin and loyal Servant of the Prophet (s) ignorant of the verses on patience? Even in this case none of the companions raised any objection at the action of Bilal. Moreover the Holy Prophet (s) was yet alive and not dead. This is the extreme extent of grief. Then how can similar action for Imam Husayn (as) be prohibited?

The extreme mourning of Uways al-Qarni (ra)

The most explicit proof of self-inflicted injury comes from Owais al-Qarni the great Muslim Sahabi, praised by both Shi’a and Sunni erudite. He had an immense love for the Holy Prophet (s). When the news reached him in Yemen that two teeth of the Holy Prophet (s) were broken in the battle of Ohad, he extracted all his teeth. When the Holy Prophet (s) got the news in Medina that Owais had struck down all his teeth, he (s) exclaimed, “Indeed Owais is our devoted friend”. This event can be found written in ‘Seerate Halbia’ vol II, page 295.

The renowned Sunni Scholar Shiekh Farid al Din Attaar in ‘Tazkira tul Awliya’ pages 15-16 writes:

Hadhrat Uways said: “If you are from amongst companions of the Prophet (s), tell me which tooth of the Holy Prophet (s) was martyred? Also, why did you not break your teeth in adhering to the Prophet (s)?” Upon saying this, he evidenced the fact that his teeth had been broken, and said: “When his (s) tooth was martyred, I broke my tooth, then I thought perhaps it is another tooth, and my continuing to do so, I smashed all of my teeth, and upon doing so I felt comfortable”. Upon witnessing this, the companions proceeded to weep, and they realized that this constituted respect, whilst he had not seen him, he fulfilled the adhered to the obligation to follow the Prophet in its entirety, and taught this lesson when he left this world. 
Tazkira tul Awliya, pages 15-16 (Mumtaz Academy, Lahore)

1108The episode can also be found at a Sunni website:
http://www.aghayiah.com/hazrat-oawis.htm

Comment

Had the breaking of teeth by Uways Qarni (ra) been in opposition to Shariah, Umar would certainly have pointed it out at the time or at least commented and answered the accusation by Uways Qarni (ra) of his less than perfect companionship. The silence of Umar proves that he didn’t deem the act of breaking one’s teeth as done by Uways Qarni (ra) as opposed to Shariah but considered it an act of sincerity and also a proof of friendship.

It is interesting that

Ibn al Hashimi argues:

In regards to the actual rituals of the Shia, these are barbaric practises of self-flagellation, violence, and paganism

Tell us, would Uways Qarni’ss destruction of his teeth with a blunt instrument not fall within your definition of ‘barbaric practises of self-flagellation, violence, and paganism’? If so, did the Prophet (s) agree with your view and condemn this extreme form of self harm?

We should point out that breaking one’s teeth is a thousand times more painful than the beating of one’s chest for a few hours. It is more extreme than chest beating with chains or knives (Zanjeer) because those who have suffered from tooth ache will understand the immense pain that circulates in the mouth and head. Compare the removal of a tooth to the forced removal of a full set of teeth without the benefit of modern day anaesthetics and instruments. The pain must have been unbearable. This was clearly an act of great courage.

Eye witness testimony to the Kufan women folk mourning Imam Hussain (as) through chest beating

We read in Balaghat al-Nesa by Ibn Tayfoor, page 25:

عن حذام الأسدي قال قدمت الكوفة سنة إحدى وستين وهي السنة التي قتل فيها الحسين بن علي فرأيت نساء أهل الكوفة يومئذ قياما يلتدمن

Hudham al-Asadi said: I went to Kufa in year 61 the year in which Hussain bin Ali was killed, and I saw on that day the women of Kufa that day standing on their feet and hitting their chests.

Mourning following the death of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal

We shall rely on the following esteemed Sunni works:

  1. Tareekh Baghdad, Volume 4 page 422
  2. Hayaat al Haywaan, page 101
قال وسمعت الوركاني يقول يوم مات احمد بن حنبل وقع الماتم والنوح في أربعة أصناف من الناس المسلمين واليهود والنصارى والمجوس

‘He (Abu Bakr al-Makki) said: ‘I heard al-Warkani saying: ‘The day on which Ahmad bin Hanbal died, in it ‘Matam’ and lamentation took place among four types of people, the Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians”.

The Muslims killed Ibn Hanbal and also mourned him. The same people accuse the Shi’a of killing Imam Husayn (as) and mourning him for atonement. They acuse Shias for what has been their own practice.

If Matam is such an extreme sin, then why was such sin committed for this Sunni Imam?

Heavens mourning at the death of Umar!

We read in Riyadh al Nadira page 187:

“When Umar died the Djinns recited a elegy ‘Umar female Djinns are mourning you in a loud voice and they are beating their faces’

If mourning in such a manner is Bidah then why was it necessary for the women of Paradise to mourn in this manner? If it was Bidah why do you think the Sunni scholars coined such a fabricated tale? When Umar died the women of Paradise beat their faces but if Shi’a women mourn the slaying of Imam Husayn (as) and his supporters, mutilation of their bodies and the imprisonment of their women folk they are deemed evil innovators.

Seven days of mourning of Khalid bin Waleed

We read in Kanz al Ummal Volume Six page 118:

“The narrator said people had attributed the prohibition of elegies to Umar, but the fact is that when Khalid bin Waleed died the women of Banu Mugheer indulged in seven days of mourning. They reddened their chests, wailed, food was distributed and elegies were recited. Umar did not place any prohibition on this mourning”.

When Ahl’ul Sunnah’s great hero dies elegies and self beating occurs under the watchful eye of Umar and he takes no remedial steps to quash this alleged Bidah. However when the Shi’a do the same in memory of Imam Husayn (as) the Nasibi’ come out in force to oppose them.

An Arabs mourning before the Prophet (s)

Malik’s Muwatta
Book 18, Number 18.9.29:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ata ibn Abdullah al-Khurasani that Said ibn al-Musayyab said, “A Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allah, (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) beating his breast and tearing out his hair and saying, ‘I am destroyed.’ The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ‘Why is that?’, and he said, ‘I had intercourse with my wife while fasting in Ramadan.’ The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked him, ‘Are you able to free a slave?’, and the man said, ‘No.’ Then he asked him, ‘Are you able to give away a camel?’, and the man replied, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Sit down,’ and someone brought a large basket of dates to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and he said to the man, ‘Take this and give it away as Sadaqa.’ The man said, ‘There is no one more needy than me,’ and (the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace), said, ‘Eat them, and fast one day for the day when you had intercourse.’ “

Worthy of note is the fact that Darr Qathani in his Sharh of Muwatta Volume 2 (this tradition) adds that that ‘he was placing mud in his hair’.

The incident should be considered in the light of the following facts:

  1. The Bedouin being a Muslim was Sahabi (companion) of the Holy Prophet (s).
  2. He was beating his chest and tearing his hair in presence of Holy Prophet (s) who neither objected to it nor reprimanded him for the same.
  3. The action of the Bedouin was a result of spiritual pain he suffered as his fast was invalidated.
  4. Sunni traditionists have authentically recorded this incident.

The Bedouin’s actions were a direct result of the agony he was going through. It led him to beat, his chest, tear his hair and place dirt in his hair. We suggest to those who deem mourning for Imam Husayn (as) Bidah to look at these Rafidi acts that were performed in the presence of the Prophet (s). If it was Haraam why did not the Prophet (s) tell him to refrain from such actions?

Islamic Law

When the Imam of a Fiqh permits an act, then it is not permissible for those of other Madhabs to raise their objections. We deem Ahl’ul bayt (as) our Imams and uphold their words. If they ruled on the permissibility of Azadari, then we care little what the Imams from Mu’awiyah and Yazeed’s lineage have to say against it.

Imam Jafer (as) allowed the mourning of Imam Husayn (as)

We read a tradition from Wasail ai Shi’a as quoted in Jahaur aur Kalaam Volume 4 page 370:

“Imam Jafar said ‘the daughters of Fatima would slap their faces and shriek. It is permissible to beat yourself and shriek for a pure soul such as Husayn”

The mourning of Banu Hashim

We read in Tareekh Kamil Volume 4 page 42

Umar ibn Sa’d appeared following the killing of Husayn, stayed for the night in Kerbala and then headed in the direction of Kufa. He was accompanied by Husayn (as)’s children and his sisters were also captives. When they passed by the bodies of Husayn and his companions, the women cried and slapped their faces. Zaynab said ‘O Muhammad!’

Sayyida Zaynab (as) beat herself on three separate occasions

First Occasion

  1. Al Bidaya wa al Nihaya Volume 8 page 176
  2. Tareekh Kamil page 29

“When the enemy planned to attack the camp of Husayn, Zaynab went to Husayn and asked ‘what is this noise outside our tents?’ Husayn [ra] replied ‘I just saw a dream wherein the Apostle of Allah told me that he would reach me by tomorrow. Upon hearing this Sayyida Zaynab became aggrieved and slapped her face”

Second occasion

  1. Al Bidaya wa al Nihaya, Volume 8 page 177
  2. Tareekh Kamil Volume 4 page 30
  3. Tareekh Tabari Volume 7 Page 324.

“When Sayyida Zaynab listened to the verses from her brother that indicated his death, she mourned by beating her face, tearing her clothes and losing her senses by falling to the ground”

Third occasion

  1. Al Bidaya wa al Nihaya Volume 8 page 93
  2. Tareekh Kamil Volume 4 page 42
  3. Tareekh Tabari Volume 7 Page 370.

Qurat bin Kas narrates that when the women of Bani Hashim passed by the battlefield they wept bitterly by beating their faces.

Dear readers! You have seen that even the prejudiced Ibn Katheer has accepted the mourning of Sayyida Zaynab (as) on the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (as). Sayyida Zaynab (as) is the elder daughter of “Gate of knowledge” and the leader of the believers Imam Ali (as) and Sayyida Zahra (as) who is the daughter of Apostle of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. The princess brought up by the great teachers of religion and trained in an atmosphere of learning and education cannot be ignorant of the Divine laws of religion. On seeing the calamities of the grandson of the Prophet (s), the mother of all calamities and woes, became impatient. She mourned on three occasions in Karbala. When the grand daughter of the Prophet (s) was brought into the city of Kufa as prisoner her calamity became more severe. When she saw the head of Imam (as) on the pointed end of lance, she stroke her head on the wooden part of the saddle in extreme grief and blood started flowing from her head.

Baba Fareed Ganj Shakar’s self harm mourning for Imam Husayn (as)

Baba Fareed Ganj Shakar of Pak Patan is a major Sunni Sufi Saint. He commands thousands of adherents from the Indian Subcontinent. We read in the Sunni text From Uswa – e – Sufia Uzzaam, Page 8:

He used to lament and cry for Imam Husayn (as) on the day of Ashura so much so that he would fall unconscious. It is narrated from him that there was a saintly man in Baghdad and when the tragedy of Karbala was described to him, he cried so piteously and profusely and smashed his head so hard on the ground out of grief that he died! The same night, people saw him in their dream and enquired of his condition to which he replied: I gave up my life for the love of Ahl – e – Bait (as) hence Allah has pardoned me and I now live with Imam Husayn (as).

Comment

Is not the status of an Azadaar equivalent to that of a Martyr? This shows that self – flagellate with knives and swords, doing Matam and giving up one’s life for the love of these Infallibles is a cause of redemption and pardon from Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى.

The skies shed blood in grief of Imam Husayn (as)

Allamah Ibn Hajar Makki writes:

“Abu Said says that on the day of the martyrdom of Husayn, there was fresh blood found under every stone lifted; and the sky also rained blood whose result was evident on clothes for ages. Abu Naim says that on the day of the martyrdom of Imam Husayn (as) our containers (of water) were full of blood.”
Sawaiq al-Muhriqa, Page 192

It is written in Tafseer al-Jalalayn, page 411 Annotation no.7 (published in Karachi) Under “Fama Bakta Alaihim Sama” Sa’di has been quoted as saying:

“When the oppressed Imam was martyred, the sky wept on his martyrdom; the weeping of the sky is its being red and anger is the reason behind the bloody tears.”

If Nawasib argue that such a notion is ridiculous then we suggest to him to consult Riyadh al Nadira page 193 [printed in Baghdad]:

“The narrator says that when Umar was murdered, the earth was covered with darkness. A child asked his mother, ‘O Mother is it the Day of Judgment? The mother replied no son Umar has been murdered”.

We appeal to justice! The earth was covered with darkness when Umar died and the Nasibi clergy have no objection to this narration since it refers to the death of one of their own. If the skies grieve over the barbaric massacre of the Ahl’ul bayt (as) then all manner of Fatwa is issued against us.

Examples of self-beating in the Bible

The Bible, Isaiah 22:12 – shows that this type of mourning was ordained by God

“On that Day the Lords called for weeping and beating the breast, shaving the head and putting on sack cloth”

“You are now at ease, be anxious; tremble, you who have no cares. Strip yourselves bare; put a cloth round your waists and beat yourselves”
The Bible, Isaiah 32:11

“Howl, Heshbon, for Ai is despoiled. Cry aloud you villages round Rabbath Ammon, put on sack cloth and beat your breast and score your body with gashes”
The Bible, Jeremiah 49:3

“The crowd that had assembled for the spectacle, when they saw what had happened went home beating their breasts”
The Bible, Luke 23:48

We have in this chapter set out a vast array of evidences proving the legitimacy of hitting oneself and shedding blood, when mourning Imam Husayn (as). Those Nasibi who are against mourning for Imam Husayn (as) and for any of the martyrs of Karbala usually raise a question whether the Holy Prophet (s) had ordered mourning for Imam Husayn (as). The answer to this question is: ‘did the Holy Prophet (s) order Owais Qarni (ra) to remove all his teeth? Did he insist that the Bedouin beat his chest? Did he order Bilal to beat his head? Similarly there was no order by the Holy Prophet (s) for Fatima (as) to beat her head at the rumour of his martyrdom in Uhud.

If there is absence of explicit permission then there is absence of prohibition also The reason for absence of such orders with regard to mourning is quite clear. These acts were all done out of love and sorrow and the Holy Prophet (s) had not forbidden them. According to the beliefs of Ahl e Sunnah, if the Holy Prophet(s) saw someone doing an act and remained silent on it, it meant that he approved of this act. This type of Sunnah, in their fiqh, is called Sunnah Taqriri.

It is quite clear that holding mourning of Imam Husayn (as) by means of Matam (chest beating) or Zanjeer (blood letting) is to give physical expression of sympathy for Imam Husayn (as). It expresses nothing but love and loyalty for the Ahl’ul bayt (as).

Edited by Hameedeh
[Mod Note: Large fonts were reduced in size.]

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5 minutes ago, Munzir Ahmed said:

history its also written that Prophet saw prohibited beating ones face, chest, thighs etc in state of grief. If someone did it out of ignorance or out of sudden calamity once or twice on the spot then it do not make it legitimatic.

Are you Shia?

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Why he was concerened about health issue? He must have said what you said to me when I raised the issue of infectious diseases.

I already mentioned you that if it amounts to cause one's health, it is not permissible and I hope you get your rational or logical evidences from above post.

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

Copy/paste.

I have gone through shia pen & other sites. There is no single reason for justifying blood matam.

Reason is sincerity as was sincerity of people who fought in the way of Allah without keeping in mind fear of getting hurt. If there is someone who out of love of Imam hussain a.s do harm himself with Zanjir to feel same pain, Allah AWJ would be pleased at his sincerity. 

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On 9/7/2017 at 10:33 AM, Munzir Ahmed said:

In history its also written that Prophet saw prohibited beating ones face, chest, thighs etc in state of grief. If someone did it out of ignorance or out of sudden calamity once or twice on the spot then it do not make it legitimatic.

@Salsabeel if you do not want to do it, do not do it . But we have the reason to feel how our Imam would have felt when he was hurt. 

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10 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Prophet PBUHHP stopped people from hitting each other's face in fight brother. But for your information, I would like to share some religious content along with references 

Matam (Beating of chests & Face): It is recorded in Madarij-un-Nubuwwat (Vol. II, page 163) that when Shaitan announced a lie that the Prophet was killed (in the Battle of Uhud), the Hashimite women, including the Lady of Paradise - Fatima Zahra (AS) - came out weeping, beating their chests & faces. The same book also records that after the death of Prophet, some of the companions wept & cried so much that they lost their eyesight. This is also recorded in "Kitab Mathabata-Bis-Sunnah". (Page 119)

I am only concerned with Prophet saw. Show me where he himself permitted this.

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