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Zavon

Why we do matam?

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So why do shias do matam? And why do they do zanjeer-zani?

I hear people saying Bibi Zainab and the rest did it. Can you clarify to me that bit as well by providing with the source?

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On 9/7/2017 at 5:48 AM, Zavon said:

So why do shias do matam? And why do they do zanjeer-zani?

I hear people saying Bibi Zainab and the rest did it. Can you clarify to me that bit as well by providing with the source?

Matam is something that has been done by Prophets as well. Prophet Jacob a.s wept for Prophet Joseph a.s. Bibi Sarah a.s hit her face with the hands when she knew that she would have baby in old age. And in history books it is written that Bibi Hajra a.s died in short time after she saw the line made by the knife on the throat of Prophet Ismael a.s. Bibi Ayesha also did matam at the demise of Prophet PBUHHP and Prophet PBUHHP did matam on the demise of Hazrat Hamza a.s and Hazrat Abu Talib a.s and Hazrat Bibi Khadeja a.s.

About Zanjir Zani, there are different hadith from past. 

It is said that Imam Ali Zainul Abideen wept for Imam Hussain a.s and also hit his head on the wall out of grief when He a.s saw for the first time, the head of Hussain ibn Ali a.s after martyrdom. It is also narrated that Imam Zainul Abideen wept blood for Imam Hussain a.s.

Matam (Beating of chests & Face): It is recorded in Madarij-un-Nubuwwat (Vol. II, page 163) that when Shaitan announced a lie that the Prophet was killed (in the Battle of Uhud), the Hashimite women, including the Lady of Paradise - Fatima Zahra (AS) - came out weeping, beating their chests & faces. The same book also records that after the death of Prophet, some of the companions wept & cried so much that they lost their eyesight. This is also recorded in "Kitab Mathabata-Bis-Sunnah". (Page 119).

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41 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

If you are looking for any rational or logical justification, we don't have any.

Why not ? We have it is called the ability of weeping ? Why did God gifted us with tears while he did not want us to weep ? Secondly, in Quran, it is written that do not weep for death more than three days except for the oppressed one. So, was not Imam Hussain a.s oppressed ? 

What else rational and logical justifications you require bro ?

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

... in Quran, it is written that do not weep for death more than three days except for the oppressed one.

Btw, can I have the verse please?

13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Why not ? We have it, is called the ability of weeping ?

My question is more concentrated on matam and zanjeer-zani, (more on later). Maybe that's what @Salsabeel was referring to (rather than on weeping and mourning)?

Edited by Zavon

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2 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Brother, I was talking about matam, zanjir zani.

 

What is logical for you that something must be within Quran or it must be according to your experience ?

If you are searching logic in Quran then please read about Bibi Sarah a.s why did she hit her face.

And if it is about Zanjir Zani then no any Maraja except Ayotullah Khamanei has prohibited it. And also you could learn about Hadith where Prophet Adam a.s hit his thigh and blood gushed out of his leg.

Secondly, my opinion regarding Zanjir Zani depends upon your love with Ahlebait a.s and according to Islam such as if one is doing it just to please people or show girls how powerful he is to endure such pain, then it is huge sin which will displease Allah AWJ. Also it should not be done before infants who are unable to understand what it is. However, if one does for feeling the pain of Imam Hussain a.s then it is not a Sin brother. 

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On 9/7/2017 at 9:34 AM, Sindbad05 said:

What is logical for you that something must be within Quran or it must be according to your experience ?

If you are searching logic in Quran then please read about Bibi Sarah a.s why did she hit her face.

Dont get angry brother, she hit her face once or twice or thrice. She never made it a tradition to beat her face every year on the day when angels gave her the glad tidings of a son.

I have just said we dont have any rational & logical justification. 

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On 9/7/2017 at 9:37 AM, Salsabeel said:

Dont get angry brother, she hit her face once or twice or thrice. She never made it a tradition to beat her face every year on the day when angels gave her the glad tidings of a son.

Lolz, why would I be angry brother ? I think that for people who has same belief as yours want that Prophets or great persons should for entire life do such action to persuade you but they were not angels bro. Even if they would have done it, you would have said since it was until their life time therefore now that tradition is no longer suitable for this time lolz.

The point is whether she hit her or not? She hit her out of grief and it showed that if there is grief and one hit himself out of grief, it is not impermissible before God unless if it cause health issues. Please notify me if Allah criticized her for that action. 

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25 minutes ago, Zavon said:

Btw, can I have the verse please?

39 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

[4:148] Allah does not love the public utterance of hurtful speech unless (it be) by one to whom injustice has been done; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Hurtful speeches meaning sadness or complaints such as we Shias do processions for Imam Hussain a.s.

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3 hours ago, Zavon said:

So why do shias do matam? And why do they do zanjeer-zani?

Azadari and Matamdari is the greatest movement of history given to us by our Imams (A.S). It is kind of protest against oppression which Ahlul Bayth (A.S) faced through out their life. Remember at that time there was no media and newspaper. This was the only way to tell ummah what they did with Ahlul Bayth (A.S). Without this movement there would be no Islam. Even today majority follows deen which is not given by Ahlul Bayth (A.S). May be they are following deen of Banu Ummaiya and Khalifas which Muslim nations for centuries elected  by their will.

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

The point is whether she it her or not her ? She hit her out of grief and it showed that if there is grief and one hit himself out of grief, it is not impermissible before God unless if it cause health issues

Ok, so do you think it become the law that whenever any barren woman somehow gets pragnant, or if she hear the news that she will going to deliver a baby, she should have to beat her face.

Come on Sindbad!

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

Ok, so do you think it become the law that whenever any barren woman somehow gets pragnant, or if she hear the news that she will going to deliver a baby, she should have to beat her face.

Come on Sindbad!

@Salsabeel So, does it prove that if any person who gets something beyond imagination whether good or bad could not display emotions ? If any barren women would do that what loss would it cause to you bro lolz ????? 

Prophet PBUHHP wept for Bibi Khadeja for whole year and called it Aam ul Hazan, so would you criticize that action as well ? and say that since prophet did that for one year so everyone do it for one year ? He wept everyday for His Ummah in Nimaz, you mention his weeping for his Ummah but I think Hussain a.s is your enemy that you try to say that do not do matam for him. what a shame bro. You are going to be in heaven where Hussain a.s is prince and if he asks you were you my enemy or my friend and you say that I was your friend and he says to you, I do not saw that you have any feelings for innocent people who were killed along me along with my children should i believe your words. 

What will you have to say to him ? 

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3 minutes ago, SIAR14 said:

It is kind of protest against oppression which Ahlul Bayth (A.S) faced through out their life. Remember at that time there was no media and newspaper. This was the only way to tell ummah what they did with Ahlul Bayth (A.S). Without this movement there would be no Islam. Even today majority follows deen which is not given by Ahlul Bayth (A.S). May be they are following deen of Banu Ummaiya and Khalifas which Muslim nations for centuries elected  by their will.

Perhaps it is easy to hit ownself than hitting the enemies of Ahlul Bayt (a.s).

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On 9/7/2017 at 5:48 AM, Zavon said:

So why do shias do matam? And why do they do zanjeer-zani?

I hear people saying Bibi Zainab and the rest did it. Can you clarify to me that bit as well by providing with the source?

You are free to do or not matam. It is expression of love. Second it teaches how stand against oppressive forces till last breath. 

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2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

what loss would it cause to you bro lolz ????? 

Is this the logical & rational justification?

3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Prophet PBUHHP wept for Bibi Khadeja for whole year and called it Aam ul Hazan, so would you criticize that action as well ?

Are we talking about weeping?

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5 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

He wept everyday for His Ummah in Nimaz, you mention his weeping for his Ummah but I think Hussain a.s is your enemy that you try to say that do not do matam for him. what a shame bro.

How many Shia do zanjeer zani & qama zani? Are you challenging the faith of all those who dont practice blood matam?

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

How many Shia do zanjeer zani & qama zani? Are you challenging the faith of all those who dont practice blood matam?

Faith is not much effected weather one does matam or not . weather one does zangeer zani or not. 

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1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

How many Shia do zanjeer zani & qama zani? Are you challenging the faith of all those who dont practice blood matam?

Lolz, I am not challenging anyone's faith, I am challenging you that if Prophets did something, how could you say it is not like this how they taught us and you have more authority than them. 

Prophet PBUHHP hit his thigh in Ahadith it is reported and also Bibi Sarah, you should not talk about if one hit his chest or not. It is not your concern bro. 

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

Hussain's matam is a is enough to hurts his enemies a lot. 

Well, why not everyone do zanjir zani & qama zani? 

1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

Is weeping separate from matam ? I do not consider it a different thing brother. Both are expression of sadness. 

Yes it is. One is natural way to expressing emotions.We have logical & rational answers/justifications/reasons for that.

Blood matam is something different. 

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

Faith is not much effected weather one does matam or not . weather one does zangeer zani or not. 

Yeah, for you it could be that but I believe that faith requires sincerity and it is showed through Processions for Imam Hussain a.s and doing Matam and Noha for Imam Hussain a.s. Sincerity weighs your faith not words. 

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There are 100% logical & rational reasons that we should quit the practice of blood matam.

A group of shirt less people, when do zanjir zani, droplets of one's blood goes on the back of others. Any one infected with hepatitas or Aids, can cause the disease to spread to others.

Zanjir zani & qama zani is not the pillar of azadari or religion. Be soft in your approach brother.

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