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1 minute ago, Sirius_Bright said:

You don't say this biradar, because you just ignored a tradition from a member of Ahlulbait (ams) about a verse in discussion. Quran is not an ordinary book, it is the word of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. It has clear meaning and ambiguous (mohkam and mutashabeh) Ahlulbait (ams) can only explain the Quran.

Very much related. Allah gave us name Shia through Ahlulbait (alaihimus Salaam).

I don't expect anything else from you. 

Well keep on yourself calling a Shia if you feel more comfortable with that. In my eyes you're just a muslim and I will keep on telling Sunni's who condemn Shia's that you are muslims.

I showed you the Word of Allah from Quran. I did what I had to do. The rest is up to you.

 

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Just now, Faruk said:

Well keep on yourself calling a Shia if you feel more comfortable with that. In my eyes you're just a muslim and I will keep on telling Sunni's who condemn Shia's that you are muslims.

I showed you the Word of Allah from Quran. I did what I had to do. The rest is up to you.

 

Okay. Continue calling yourself a Muslim (without any sect) inspite of clear ahadith presented to you in relation to the verse.  

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide us all to Siratul Mustaqeem. 

Thank you. 

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Just now, Sirius_Bright said:

Okay. Continue calling yourself a Muslim (without any sect) inspite of clear ahadith presented to you in relation to the verse.  

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى guide us all to Siratul Mustaqeem. 

Thank you. 

Amin ..

You're welcome brother. Thank you too for expressing your view on this.

 

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Don't worry, the one who turn to goodness and seek Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى by following all his commands in Qur'an, Allah will lead him to right path. That is enough for anyone.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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5 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Shias refute this claim by saying that 1000 lies cannot overwhelm a single truth. A single truth is enough to overwhelm 1000 lies. 

If the Sunnis say they are the single truth while the others are the 1000 lies? Because a sunni can claim following a single united body while other groups - ibadi, twelver, ismaeli, ahmadiyya are the 1000 lies and people outside of the single truth making 1000 lies. In terms of group think, the Sunnis are a minority compared to the diversity of other groups being that they form more 1+2=3 while Sunnis remain 1. In this sense.

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1 hour ago, SunniBrother said:

If the Sunnis say they are the single truth while the others are the 1000 lies? Because a sunni can claim following a single united body while other groups - ibadi, twelver, ismaeli, ahmadiyya are the 1000 lies and people outside of the single truth making 1000 lies. In terms of group think, the Sunnis are a minority compared to the diversity of other groups being that they form more 1+2=3 while Sunnis remain 1. In this sense.

Did not the nowadays christian church also became a single united body only after it wiped away and persecuted the real followers of Jesus a.s. and all other sects?

Edited by Faruk

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13 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Did not the nowadays christian church also became a single united body only after it wiped away and persecuted the real followers of Jesus a.s. and all other sects?

Actually brother. Any group of Muslims can make the analogy that I made if you put into perspective. And even devils can quote scripture. Allah knows best. There's a hadith narrated by Al Ghazali of the 73 sects that it is different from the other groups claiming single truth and it goes like this - "My ummah will be divided in 73 sects, all of them in paradise except 1". This is a little different from the mainstream hadith that says "My ummah will divide in 73 sects, all of them in hell except 1 and this sects is the [insert your group here]."

Edited by SunniBrother

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On 9/7/2017 at 3:08 AM, SunniBrother said:

It's a well know argument among Sunnis that the majority cannot be wrong and that minor groups saying that a majority is wrong is itself wrong. How does shias refute this claim?

There are more Christians in the world than Muslims. Majority cannot be wrong. Therefore Christians are right and Muslims are wrong.

#SunniLogic

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On 9/10/2017 at 7:11 PM, Faruk said:

I do acknowledge there are diffirent sects and we probably have the same definition (diffirences in leadership, dogma's and fiqh).

But I also do believe that we should not distant from eachother but should look for the common grounds we have and once had.

I did not made this up by myself but base this on the Quran. Allah named us muslims and emphasizes muslim-unity.

Muslims in general will be Muslims as long they adhere to fundamental  pillars of Islam. You will only divide Islam by deviating from the pillars of Islam, by bringing innovations into pillars of Islam, as for various sects in islam, as long as they don't violate the pillars of Islam they wont be considered deviant. Shias in general do not consider Sunnis as non Muslims we consider them Muslims but they are not Mumin. Moreover,  certain sects within Sunni Islam consider Shia as non Muslims which goes against teaching of the Quran, because shias have not deviated from path of Islamic doctrine, and also it goes against Muslim unity.

 

 

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On ‎10‎-‎9‎-‎2017 at 11:07 PM, SunniBrother said:

Actually brother. Any group of Muslims can make the analogy that I made if you put into perspective. And even devils can quote scripture. Allah knows best. There's a hadith narrated by Al Ghazali of the 73 sects that it is different from the other groups claiming single truth and it goes like this - "My ummah will be divided in 73 sects, all of them in paradise except 1". This is a little different from the mainstream hadith that says "My ummah will divide in 73 sects, all of them in hell except 1 and this sects is the [insert your group here]."

At the end of the day the question is what majority means to you. Majority is actually an ideological argument, Not logical but ironically that is exactly where they base their authority on as it is the only argument they have.

Why do you think it ends with Al Jamaa ..

Edited by Faruk

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1 minute ago, Faruk said:

At the end of the day the question is what majority means to you. Majority is actually an ideological argument, Not logical but ironically that is exactly where they base their authority on as it is the only argument they have.

Why do you think it ends with Al Jamaa ..

It ends with Ahl Jamma because of the year of unification. Yes, majority is a matter of perspective anyway.

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25 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

It ends with Ahl Jamma because of the year of unification. Yes, majority is a matter of perspective anyway.

As far as I know Jamaa means 'main body of muslims' or community but anyway. How was this an issue to you as it is crystal clear that they being the majority believe they're on the right path because of that?

Edited by Faruk

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These are some of their ideological texts concerning Jama'ah:
 

'Umar reported that on one occasion Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, "Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama'ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two." (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi) 
 

And 'Arfajah reported (Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, as saying): "that Allah's hand is over the Jama'ah and the Devil is with whoever deviates from the Jama'ah." (Collected by Imam al-Tabarani) 

Mu'adh ibn Jabal reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said, "The Devil is like a wolf among humans as a wolf is among sheep; it snatches the stray sheep. So beware of the paths which branch off and adhere to the Jama'ah, the masses and the masjid." (Collected by Imam Ahmad; NB- The version given in Mishkat, 1/184, also on the authority of Imam Ahmad does not have the addition 'the masses and the masjid.') 

And Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that, "Two are better than one, and three better than two; so stick to the Jama'ah for verily Allah, Most Great and Glorious, will only unite my nation on guidance." (Collected by Ahmad) 

Al-Harith al-Ashari reported that the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said: 
"I bid you to do five things: to remain attached to the main body (Jama'ah of Muslims), listen to your ruler (the Khalif of the Islamic state) and obey him, and migrate, and fight in the way of Allah. And he who detaches himself from the main body of the Muslims (Jama'ah) to the extent of one span of hand, he in fact, throws off the yoke of Islam from his neck, and he who calls with the call of ignorance, he is one from the denizens of Hell beyond doubt, even if he observes fast and says prayers and considers himself as a Muslim." (Musnad Ahmad, vide: Selection from Hadith, no. 288; by A.H. Siddique)

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3 minutes ago, Faruk said:

These are some of their ideological texts concerning Jama'ah:
 

'Umar reported that on one occasion Allah's Messenger (Peace and blessings be upon him) stood up among them and said, "Whoever among you desires the centre of paradise should keep close to the Jama'ah for the Devil closely accompanies the solitary individual and is more distant from two." (Collected by Imam Tirmidhi) 
 

And 'Arfajah reported (Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, as saying): "that Allah's hand is over the Jama'ah and the Devil is with whoever deviates from the Jama'ah." (Collected by Imam al-Tabarani) 

Mu'adh ibn Jabal reported that Allah's Messenger (Peace be upon him) said, "The Devil is like a wolf among humans as a wolf is among sheep; it snatches the stray sheep. So beware of the paths which branch off and adhere to the Jama'ah, the masses and the masjid." (Collected by Imam Ahmad; NB- The version given in Mishkat, 1/184, also on the authority of Imam Ahmad does not have the addition 'the masses and the masjid.') 

And Abu Dharr (Allah be pleased with him) reported from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that, "Two are better than one, and three better than two; so stick to the Jama'ah for verily Allah, Most Great and Glorious, will only unite my nation on guidance." (Collected by Ahmad) 

Al-Harith al-Ashari reported that the Messenger of Allah (Peace be upon him) said: 
"I bid you to do five things: to remain attached to the main body (Jama'ah of Muslims), listen to your ruler (the Khalif of the Islamic state) and obey him, and migrate, and fight in the way of Allah. And he who detaches himself from the main body of the Muslims (Jama'ah) to the extent of one span of hand, he in fact, throws off the yoke of Islam from his neck, and he who calls with the call of ignorance, he is one from the denizens of Hell beyond doubt, even if he observes fast and says prayers and considers himself as a Muslim." (Musnad Ahmad, vide: Selection from Hadith, no. 288; by A.H. Siddique)

This is complicated... If I were to follow the majority in the battle of uhud I would have runned away. Are those who runned away the jamah since they were big in number or is those who runned away outside the jamah since they left the main body?

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Just now, SunniBrother said:

This is complicated... If I were to follow the majority in the battle of uhud I would have runned away. Are those who runned away the jamah since they were big in number or is those who runned away outside the jamah since they left the main body?

:hahaha:

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