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On Thursday, September 07, 2017 at 1:38 PM, SunniBrother said:

It's a well know argument among Sunnis that the majority cannot be wrong and that minor groups saying that a majority is wrong is itself wrong. How does shias refute this claim?

What do you mean by majority and minority. Who is majority and who is minority. 

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1 hour ago, Sirius_Bright said:

What do you mean? The people with Yazid were on right side? 

The majority of the muslims were not with Yazid but remained passive. Medina was the power base of the Ahl al-Bayt that time. Do you really believe Imam Hussain a.s. had only 72 supporters? The majority believed Yazid was wrong but they just did not closed ranks and did nothing about it.

Why? I don't know. Maybe fear, maybe something else.

Edited by Faruk

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48 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What do you mean by majority and minority. Who is majority and who is minority. 

Haqq is not a matter of numbers bro'.

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8 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The majority of the muslims were not with Yazid but remained passive. Medina was the power base of the Ahl al-Bayt that time. Do you really believe Imam Hussain a.s. had only 72 supporters? The majority believed Yazid was wrong but they just did not closed ranks and did nothing about it.

Why? I don't know. Maybe fear, maybe something else.

They fearing haqq and not speaking against corrupt yazid automatically makes them to be on baatil. So I believe otherwise. 

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5 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

They fearing haqq and not speaking against corrupt yazid automatically makes them to be on baatil. So I believe otherwise. 

It's not as black-white as you put it. The Shia of today are mainly an ofspring or followers from the group that remained silent.

The bloody self-beatings at Karbala-day stem from the guilty complex of doing nothing that time.

 

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

It's not as black-white as you put it. 

Many knew haqq but remained silent. That's makes them baatil. It definitely isn't black and white but either there is haqq or baatil, nothing in between. 

4 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The Shia of today are mainly an ofspring or followers from the group that remained silent.

What do you mean? 

5 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The bloody self-beatings at Karbala-day stem from the guilty complex of doing nothing that time.

You sound like a sunni. Hearing this kind of non sense from time immemorial. 

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12 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Many knew haqq but remained silent. That's makes them baatil. It definitely isn't black and white but either there is haqq or baatil, nothing in between. 

What do you mean? 

You sound like a sunni. Hearing this kind of non sense from time immemorial. 

Brother I know it sounds offensive but to me there is no shia or sunni. There are muslims and there is haqq. The rest is just sectarian and political nonsense.

The fact is that the majority of Kufans betrayed Imam Hussain a.s. That they felt guilty about it and repented for that is also historically recorded in the Battle of Ayn al-Warda led by a Sahabi called Sulayman ibn Surad al-Khuza'i. This army later joined the uprising of Mukhtar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_'Ayn_al-Warda

 

Edited by Faruk

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1 minute ago, Faruk said:

Brother I know it sounds offensive but to me there is no shia or sunni.

That's your perspective. The only real muslim if any, are shias. Others are  muslim just because they recite shahadatain. 

2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

There are muslims and there is haqq.

The thing in bold in our language is called Shia.

Holy Prophet (sawa) at many places used the term 'Shia'. So that's not nonsense. 

6 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The fact is that the majority of Kufans betrayed Imam Hussain a.s. That they felt guilty about it is also historically recorded in the Battle of Ayn al-Warda led by a Sahabi called Sulayman ibn Surad al-Khuza'i.

That's a different discussion. 

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On 9/7/2017 at 1:08 PM, SunniBrother said:

It's a well know argument among Sunnis that the majority cannot be wrong and that minor groups saying that a majority is wrong is itself wrong. How does shias refute this claim?

Shias refute this claim by saying that 1000 lies cannot overwhelm a single truth. A single truth is enough to overwhelm 1000 lies. 

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Just now, Sirius_Bright said:

That's your perspective. The only real muslim if any, are shias. Others are  muslim just because they recite shahadatain. 

I only accept those perspectives that are based on the Holy Quran.

I never read about Shia's or Sunni's in the Quran. Let alone the way it is applied nowadays.

 

2 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

The thing in bold in our language is called Shia.

Holy Prophet (sawa) at many places used the term 'Shia'. So that's not nonsense.

Calling oneself sunni or shia is actually what the Quran is warning about. According to the Quran there are only muslims.

 

3 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

That's a different discussion. 

It's the answer on the claim you made before.

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28 minutes ago, Faruk said:

I only accept those perspectives that are based on the Holy Quran.

I never read about Shia's or Sunni's in the Quran. Let alone the way it is applied nowadays.

Holy Quran was revealed when the Muslims had one belief. But after Holy Prophet (sawa), things happened and there were broadly 2 categories of people. Therefore, there was need to identify people based on their belief. People were called as Shia of Ali(a.s.) or Shias of Mu'awiyah, which later evolved as present day Shias and Sunnis. You call haqq and baatil or shia and sunni it's one and the same thing. Telling you again, the word shia is used in the Quran and by Holy Prophet (sawa).

37 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Calling oneself sunni or shia is actually what the Quran is warning about. According to the Quran there are only muslims.

Please show me the verse.

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Just now, Sirius_Bright said:

Holy Quran was revealed when the Muslims had one belief. But after Holy Prophet (sawa), things happened and there were broadly 2 categories of people. Therefore, there was need to identify people based on their belief. People were called as Shia of Ali(a.s.) or Shias of Mu'awiyah, which later evolved as present day Shias and Sunnis. You call haqq and baatil or shia and sunni it's one and the same thing. Telling you again, the word shia is used in the Quran and by Holy Prophet (sawa).

Please show me the verse.

My dear brother,

The terms Sunni and Shia are connected to persons living sometime, somewhere in history. Followers of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.a.s. and Shia's or the people of the party of Imam Ali a.s.

The term muslim is not connected to any person living somewhere, sometime or whatever. The term muslim is a general and universal one meaning he who is obedient to and worshipping Allah.

{Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allaah]. And he was not of the polytheists.}  [Quran 3:67]       

We can approach the verse in two ways.

1. Those calling themselves sunni or shia are equal to those calling themselves jews or christians and not muslims.

2. Ask ourselves why Ibrahim did not call himself a Shia or a Sunni.
 

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9 minutes ago, islam25 said:

But the answer is not relevant. Non of any said imam Hussain is not Haqq. . 

You asked me. Then what should be the answer according to you or can you specify your question?

Edited by Faruk

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2 minutes ago, Faruk said:

You asked me. Then what should be the answer according to you?

You mentioned only Hussain as.Do you mean other than Husayn as no one is on Haqq. 

Second discussion was not on Hussainas.but on majority and minority. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

You mentioned only Hussain as.Do you mean other than Husayn as no one is on Haqq. 

No I meant Imam Husain a.s. and those who supported him in any way.
 

 

3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Second discussion was not on Hussainas.but on majority and minority. 


As I said Haqq is not a matter of majority or minority i.e. it depends on the awareness of the people. Sometimes they're the majority and sometimes not. But that does not change a thing in Haqq itself.

Haqq is Haqq. Even when it has no supporters at all.


 

Edited by Faruk

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3 minutes ago, Faruk said:

No I meant Imam Husain a.s. and those who supported him in any way.
 

 


As I said Haqq is not a matter of majority or minority i.e. it depends on the awareness of the people. Sometimes they're the majority and sometimes not. But that does not change a thing in Haqq itself.

Haqq is Haqq. Even when it has no supporters at all.


 

That every one knows Haqq is Haqq. 

Now what is Haqq. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That every one knows Haqq is Haqq. 

Now what is Haqq. 

You don't know what Haqq is?

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3 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The terms Sunni and Shia are connected to persons living sometime, somewhere in history. Followers of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.a.s. and Shia's or the people of the party of Imam Ali a.s.

Okay. Strip everyone of their secterian name. Everyone's Muslim now. There are so many muslims out there with different beliefs, how'll you indicate a particular person if you call everyone Muslim.

6 minutes ago, Faruk said:

The term muslim is not connected to any person living somewhere, sometime or whatever. The term muslim is a general and universal one meaning he who is obedient to and worshipping Allah.

No one denied this. Everyone's Muslim but not all Muslims follow Islam correctly.

12 minutes ago, Faruk said:

{Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allaah]. And he was not of the polytheists.}  [Quran 3:67]       

Al Ayyashi, from Ubeydullah Al Halby, (It  has  been  narrated) from  Abu Abdullah(asws) having  said:  ‘Amir-Al-Momineen (asws) said: ‘Ibrahim was neither a Jew nor a Christian[3:67] – Neither a Jew Praying to the  west,  nor  a  Christian  Praying  to  the  east, but  he  was  (an)  upright  (man), a Muslim (submitter)– he was upon the Religion of Muhammad (sawa)’. (Tafseer al-ayyashi).

You need to understand that the term we use today is out of need. The similar thing is used within Jews and Christians today.

19 minutes ago, Faruk said:

We can approach the verse in two ways.

1. Those calling themselves sunni or shia are equal to those calling themselves jews or christians and not muslims.

2. Ask ourselves why Ibrahim did not call himself a Shia or a Sunni.

T
    Tafseer bir raai is dangerous and Haraam (AFAIK).
    1. Shia or Sunni are divisions within a sect while Jew and Christian are whole religion in itself. Therefore comparison is absurd.
    2. Because there wasn't any need.
وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
   And indeed from his Shias, was Ibrahim [37:83]
I'll give tafseer from Aimma (ams) in the next post.

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سبحان الله

ماجد

Haqq,

The path of Allah,

The Day of Judgement,

The sphere of Ard,

The Magnificent Kitab,

By Allah,

These are Haqq.

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1 hour ago, Faruk said:

Brother I know it sounds offensive but to me there is no shia or sunni. There are muslims and there is haqq. The rest is just sectarian and political nonsense.

For me Ali AS is with haqq and haqq is with Ali AS. Rest are just claims and blames.

Followers of haqq are the followers of Ahl albayat AS.

Edited by skyweb1987

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51 minutes ago, Faruk said:

We can approach the verse in two ways.

Let this be for Ahlulbait (ams).

13 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:
 
وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ
   And indeed from his Shias, was Ibrahim [37:83]
I'll give tafseer from Aimma (ams) in the next post.

Ali Bin Ibrahim said, ‘Abu Al-Abbasi narrated to me, from Muhammad Bin Ahmad Bin Isa, from Al-nazar Bin Suweyd, from Sama’at, from Abu Baseer, ‘Abu Ja’far (a.s.) having said: ‘Congratulation for the name!’ I said, ‘May I be sacrificed for you, and what (name) is it?’ He (a.s.): ‘The Shia’.

 It was said, ‘The people are recognising us by that!’ He(a.s.) said: ‘Have you not heard the Words of Allah(azwj): And indeed from his Shias, was Ibrahim [37:83]. And His (azwj) Words: The one who was from his Shias cried out for his help against the one who was his enemy [28:15], so congratulations for the name’.

(Tafseer al-Qummi 223:2)

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