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2 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Is not wrong to believe in Qadr like Sunnis. But using it as excuse is forbidden. Like saying - Qadr made me do bad things.

Actually I miss understood it . since in begging u said sunni belive in Qadr ie predestination. 

But we believe in free will and Adal. 

And there is qadr too not as misunderstood by us or against Adal. 

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1 hour ago, eThErEaL said:

So this idea (of blaming god for their sins) is condemned by "traditional Sunnis".

What about the thinking that since our actions are predestined therefore we dont have the power to avoid them?

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24 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Actually I miss understood it . since in begging u said sunni belive in Qadr ie predestination. 

But we believe in free will and Adal. 

And there is qadr too not as misunderstood by us or against Adal. 

Sunnis believe Qadr is in two aspects, those Allah will it two happen and those Allah allow humans to choose.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

What do you mean by traditional Sunnis condemn blaming Allah for ones sins.

Do non traditional Sunnis blame Allah. 

Maybe, maybe not.  A Non-traditional Sunni can be anyone who calls himself a Sunni who does not adhere to the tradition (either partially or totally).  It could any Tom, Richard, or Harry.  This is why we can only speak about Traditional Islam (whether Traditional Sunni Islam or Traditional Shia Islam).

Edited by eThErEaL

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8 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

What about the thinking that since our actions are predestined therefore we dont have the power to avoid them?

So, both Sunnis and Shias believe in this.  God has "measured out" (yuqadaru) every single thing (including what we do inasmuch as they exist by and through His word, "Be") with respect to his al-'amr al-takwini.   But with respect to His al-amr al-tashri'i , we can choose either to follow His shari'a or not to follow His shari'a.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So, both Sunnis and Shias believe in this.  God has "measured out" (yuqadaru) every single thing (including what we do inasmuch as they exist by and through His word, "Be") with respect to his al-'amr al-takwini.   But with respect to His al-amr al-tashri'i , we can choose either to follow His shari'a or not to follow His shari'a.

 

 

Surah At-Takwir, Verse 29:

وَمَا تَشَاءُونَ إِلَّا أَن يَشَاءَ اللَّهُ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ

And you do not please except that Allah please, the Lord of the worlds.

(English - Shakir)

For the sake of complete understanding, I would like to ask you to elaborate what is meant by Amr-al-Takwini & Amr-al-Tashri'i?

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The greatest problem of Muslims today is lack of self criticism. We only start discussing and criticizing our faith now with the rise of wahhabism and terrorism. There are some places Sunnis and shias live in peace and respect each other. But things cannot change if we do not question the lines of kufr and believe as said by Al Ghazali. But Islam is used for political reasons ever since the conflict of the Umayyads and the Abbasids. Of course some zealots don't like criticism and see it as blasphemy, but I fear we would be lying in the name of the Prophet (s.a.w.s) if we do not question certain things.

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The Qur'an explicitly say believe in Allah, his prophets, books, the angels, pay zakat, establish salat and do good deeds. I think those who do this are enough to be Muslims. One religious truth is that the most important aspect of Islam after salat is doing good deeds, see all sects and groups of Islam and you'll notice the only aspect we do not differ is doing good deeds.

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6 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

The Qur'an explicitly say believe in Allah, his prophets, books, the angels, pay zakat, establish salat and do good deeds.

So do we believe that there are 72 or more sirat e mustaqeem?  

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14 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

The greatest problem of Muslims today is lack of self criticism. We only start discussing and criticizing our faith now with the rise of wahhabism and terrorism. There are some places Sunnis and shias live in peace and respect each other. But things cannot change if we do not question the lines of kufr and believe as said by Al Ghazali. But Islam is used for political reasons ever since the conflict of the Umayyads and the Abbasids. Of course some zealots don't like criticism and see it as blasphemy, but I fear we would be lying in the name of the Prophet (s.a.w.s) if we do not question certain things.

There is nothing wrong in criticism and differing in opinion. But problem labelling kufr or shrik on this difference.

And we all know basic of Islam recognition of Tawheed of Allah .

Then is Prophethood and Resurrection. 

Rest is minor issues.  

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

So do we believe that there are 72 or more sirat e mustaqeem?  

Labelling of sect has no significance. You will judged by what is in your heart and not what is your label  (sunni,shia or whabby etc).The more your belief is close to real Tawheed of Allah the more true muslim you are. 

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8 minutes ago, islam25 said:

There is nothing wrong in criticism and differing in opinion. But problem labelling kufr or shrik on this difference.

And we all know basic of Islam recognition of Tawheed of Allah .

Then is Prophethood and Resurrection. 

Rest is minor issues.  

The only ones labeling kufr and shirk are Salafis and Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia.

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

Labelling of sect has no significance

It is not about labelling, it is about the straight path. How many Sirat e Mustaqeem are there? 

What gave "kamal" to deen? 

"Al youma akmalto lakum deenokum"

Muslims were keeping believe in Allah, His prophets, His books, angels, were paying zakah, were offering salah before the revelation of this verse. 

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

It is not about labelling, it is about the straight path. How many Sirat e Mustaqeem are there? 

What gave "kamal" to deen? 

"Al youma akmalto lakum deenokum"

Muslims were keeping believe in Allah, His prophets, His books, angels, were paying zakah, were offering salah before the revelation of this verse. 

There's no straight path after the first and second fitnah. This is all the groups and sects appeared and developed different views because of the schism.

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3 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

It is not about labelling, it is about the straight path. How many Sirat e Mustaqeem are there? 

What gave "kamal" to deen? 

"Al youma akmalto lakum deenokum"

Muslims were keeping believe in Allah, His prophets, His books, angels, were paying zakah, were offering salah before the revelation of this verse. 

We do not got. Every muslim claims to belive in Tawheed of Allah. 

Now it depends how much his belief is in accordance to the real Tawheed of Allah. It is quite possible despite claiming of shia we will be resurrected as Christians or Hindus if we do not correct our belief of Tawheed. 

So again label or claiming do not carry weigh. 

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Just now, SunniBrother said:

Just islam. Believe in Allah, the prophets, the books, the angels, establish salat, pay zakat and do good deeds.

But my question still stands, what gave "kamal" to deen (i.e., Islam)?

"Al youwa akmalto lakum deenokum"

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Y

1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

But my question still stands, what gave "kamal" to deen (i.e., Islam)?

"Al youwa akmalto lakum deenokum"

I don't know. Every sect have a different view. I don't have a time machine brother.

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

We do not got. Every muslim claims to belive in Tawheed of Allah. 

Now it depends how much his belief is in accordance to the real Tawheed of Allah. It is quite possible despite claiming of shia we will be resurrected as Christians or Hindus if we do not correct our belief of Tawheed. 

So again label or claiming do not carry weigh. 

I am not labelling brother.

I am just asking you to tell me the where abouts of SIRAT E MUSTAQEEM.

What gave kamal to deen?

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Just now, Salsabeel said:

I am not labelling brother.

I am just asking you to tell me the where abouts of SIRAT E MUSTAQEEM.

What gave kamal to deen?

 

1 minute ago, Salsabeel said:

I am not labelling brother.

I am just asking you to tell me the where abouts of SIRAT E MUSTAQEEM.

What gave kamal to deen?

Those who believe in the Qur'an, the Sunnah and the Ahl al Bayt. Or just Qur'an and Sunnah. Depends in which person you ask.

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8 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Qadr has many meanings, one of them is measure:

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 49:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ

Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

(English - Shakir)

Perhaps this question will help us to understand the ideology of "qadr":

Does Allah has predestined the disobedience of Iblis? If yes, whom you held responsible for his disobedience, Iblis or Allah?

Well regarding this I remember the famous incident that happened with Abu Hanifa and Behlol.

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4 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

Y

I don't know. Every sect have a different view. I don't have a time machine brother.

Strange!

Todays Muslim dont know the sirat. 

Surah Al-Fatiha, Verse 7:
صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ

The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
(English - Shakir)

 

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