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Sindbad05

Is Ammar Nakhswani against Wilayat e Faqih

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22 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

1. I have a question that has Quran or Hadith prohibited that any Alim or Maraja should be president or Prime Minister of the State ? I believe there is no such thing in Quran or Hadith.

2. I have different opinion for WF. That is the main field of religious scholar is religion. Therefore, he can hold a public office to oversee the affairs of the state if they are running according to Islamic laws or not. However, the other affairs of the state belong to people having knowledge in respective fields such as economists should govern finance, auditor should be responsible for audit and People having journalism degree to regulate Media. 

3, Having said that religious scholar should oversee ethics and morals in the state departments does not mean that if he has extra knowledge about politics, he should not be president or Prime Minister or Head of the state. So, this is where I think Ammar Nakswani have said, instead of giving impression that there is no Wilayah for Faqih at all. Lolz 

Look into what other maraja have said on this matter, there is a great level of detail on the net, but in any case back to your original question, it is unwise in my opinion to not watch someone because his views on a certain matter are different, Sayed Ammar is certainly not going against Islam by saying what he said, there is no real consensus on this issue across maraja.

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6 minutes ago, Waseem162 said:

And if you are Neutral over following Wilayat E Faqih then sorry brother you are indirectly neutral on the blood of Holy Martyrs who are defending Holy Shrines all day and night, Who are there to rescue oppressed ones from Iraq, Syria and other parts of Middle East.

Neutral is not an option. Allah said, Enjoining Good and Forbid Evil. There is no notion of neutralism. You are either supporting good or bad.

 

Not everyone that doesn't agree with the Iranian mode of governance is bad. I support Iran's foreign policy btw, but if we want to be accurate, there are disagreements over the extent of authority that a maraja has, this is pretty clear, even Sayed Sistani has a different view on this matter. 

Question: What is Grand Ayatollah Sistani's opinion about Velayat-e Faqih?

Answer: Every jurisprudent (Faqih) has wilayah (guardianship) over non-litigious affairs. Non-litigious affairs are called "al-omour al-hesbiah." As for general affairs to which social order is linked, and enforcement of doctrine, this depends on certain conditions, one of which is popularity of the Faqih among the majority of momeneen(believers).[31]

I support Iran's foreign policy, but ultimately the fate of the country's political system is in the hands of its people. 

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35 minutes ago, Jebreil said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

السلام عليكم

@Sindbad05

 

ولایت فقیه چیزی است که خدای تبارک و تعالی درست کرده است همان ولایت رسول الله است.

 

(صحیفه نور، ج ۱۱، ص ۲۶ و ۱۳۳)

 

*

 

The office is conditional on Fiqh, so naturally the powers do not extend to modifying Fiqh. But the question of jurisdiction is this: are his powers limited to some specific subject-area or is it universal? The doctrine says it is the latter, which is exactly the jurisdiction the Prophet enjoyed. Thus, the Wali Faqih - acting in his capacity as faqih - can decide on anything and it would be legally enforceable.

*

Note this has nothing to do with marja'iyya. The Wali Faqih issues a hukm - a ruling - that is meant to be binding on everybody. The marja' has no jurisdiction over his muqallid and only communicates his understanding of the law, which is iftaa.

 

و علیکم السلام

I would call it misinterpretation of what Ayotullah Khomeini has said. Indeed, obeying Imams is following Prophet PBUHHP and obeying Prophet PBUHHP is obeying Allah AWJ. Prophet PBUHHP said: "If I appoint a slave upon you with a responsibility, you have to follow him". So, following that slave will be following Prophet PBUHHP as slave is emissary of Prophet and Prophet is ambassador of Allah AWJ. However, the slave has no authority to go beyond what Prophet has enjoined and Prophet has no authority to go beyond what Allah has enjoined. So, there is limited capacity which you have misinterpreted.

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1 hour ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Look into what other maraja have said on this matter, there is a great level of detail on the net, but in any case back to your original question, it is unwise in my opinion to not watch someone because his views on a certain matter are different, Sayed Ammar is certainly not going against Islam by saying what he said, there is no real consensus on this issue across maraja.

No one among existing Marajas believe in the absoluteness Wilayah-e-Faqih. The Wilayah-e-Faqih is thought as assistants of Imams and if any Faqih goes against what Imams have told, then they are counted out of Islam. Ammar Nakshwani said many wrong things, he himself is an Alim, I agree his point that one who does not follow any Maraja, his Eman is not invalidated but he will not attain highest form of purity if a person does not listen to Faqih and Alim-e-Deen because they narrate us ahadith. So, here Ammar Nakshwani is wrong.  

Edited by Sindbad05

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Just now, Jebreil said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

السلام علیکم

@Sindbad05

What have I misinterpreted?

Do you read Persian?

و علیکم السلام

You say that they have same jurisdiction as of Prophets while I did not see in quote of Khomeini saying that. Khomeini has said that they are emissary of God which is not wrong for Prophet have appointed narrators of Ahadith to whom people should listen.

No, I do not know Persian.

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20 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Prophet PBUHHP said: "If I appoint a slave upon you with a responsibility, you have to follow him".

@Jebreil

Did you read this quote bro ? So, here accepting slave as Wali that is appointed by Prophet is as if believing in Wilayah of Prophet PBUHHP. So, this is what Ayotullah says that Wilayah-e-Faqih, is Wilayah of Prophet PBUHHP.

Edited by Sindbad05

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3 minutes ago, Jebreil said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

السلام علیکم

@Sindbad05

I'm supposing you haven't read the book.

Right. So suppose the Prophet appoints a slave. Now we ask about the jurisdiction of that slave. It could be limited to a certain affair or generalised over all affairs. Now, the jurisdiction of the Prophet is general, over all affairs. Sayyed Khomeyni argues that the jurisdiction of the Wali Faqih is like the Prophet's, meaning general, over all affairs.

 

و علیکم السلام

Please if you have English pdf of this refer to me that. To see what words Ayotullah has said.

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@Jebreil I did not see that Ayotullah used a word such as "Hudood" or "Had" and he used Wilayah so, this quote has not any such word as Jurisdiction that in Arabic may be translated as "Hudood" or "Had". Even in Persian Jurisdiction means "Hudood" or "Had" as I know few words of Arabic and Persian.

 

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9 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

Not everyone that disagrees with WF wants to cause friction though or destroy it, some have legitimate disagreements and I believe we can have an open discussion about these issues. There are a lot of issues maraja disagree on and I don't really see why we cant' do so respectfully. 

For sure brother, we can discuss it, like everything ells but just so you know, when the enemy sees us discussing something like this, which would cause distancing between us and splitting, for sure they will make the best they can do fuel whatever sparks might occur. We must be careful because they just hoping for a situation like this where they can make it into "iranian islam" and "arabic islam" etc. Much like how saudi is trying to do.

 

9 hours ago, Mohamed1993 said:

By saying if you don't follow WF you don't follow twelfth Imam, what else are you implying though? Some reject WF because they only believe in absolute authority under the umbrella of an infallible, so by saying you're rejecting twelfth Imam if you reject WF, aren't you implying you think the leader of WF is infallible, seeing as though there is definitely no consensus over this issue in Shia theology?

No, nobody is implying anything. Nobody has said that the leader of WF is infallible, as I said, if you would ask him, he would also admit that he is not infallible.

Please brother, realize that there is a need for leadership and organisation of the shias. I do not follow WF myself, not because I disagree with it, but because I am not educated enough about it to take a stance, are you?

Yet I admit that there is a need for leadership and unity; understand what parties are watching us and who benefits from what, we all as shias need to stay together.

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3 hours ago, Jebreil said:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم

السلام علیکم

@Sindbad05

 

If you don't know what the doctrine is, how can you criticise Sayyed Ammar for saying - quite rightly - that Wilayat al-Faqih over government is not among the Usul of Religion? (If that were true that would mean Sayyed al-Khui was a heretic!)

And if you don't know Persian how can you interpret those words (which you mistranslated)?

Brother, forget Arabic or Persian, do you know what "jurisdiction" means in English?

 

و علیکم السلام

Bro, I have read Muslim law sometimes, Jurisdiction means the extent of a person to make laws or expound them. In terms of scholars, they only have jurisdiction for Ijtehad and not beyond it. And all ulemas agree on that. Ammar Nakshwani cannot do Ijtehad for himself therefore have to accept Wilayah of Faqih in that matter and this may also include governmental affairs which change with respect to time and in that none has authority except the Faqih to do Ijtehad on the basis of traditions. 

If you are really certain about that why you come with farsi and not english ? I think Ayotullah Khomeini's all books have translation in English.

Ammar Nakshwani was wrong saying "Why Marg Barg"? Why not "Marg Barg to those who refuses the hadith of Prophet that said refer to our scholars in matters of Deen".

No any Mujtahid, I am sure believes in the absolute authority of Marajas, the Marajas are known as Assistants of Imams in religious affairs. So, why not follow them then get screwed by people like Yasir al Habib ? 

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3 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Please brother, realize that there is a need for leadership and organisation of the shias. I do not follow WF myself, not because I disagree with it, but because I am not educated enough about it to take a stance, are you?

Yet I admit that there is a need for leadership and unity; understand what parties are watching us and who benefits from what, we all as shias need to stay together.

Yea, I understand this perspective, but yet I don't refrain from listening to people who have disagreements with this, which is what brother Sindbad stated he was going to do in his post, which is why I stated SAN hasn't said anything that it is outside the framework of Islam. Ultimately, I no doubt appreciate Iran's efforts in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, but the political system in Iran and how Iran governs itself is not upto me, I don't have a voice in Iranian politics, that's down to the Iranian people. 

Edited by Mohamed1993

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17 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Recently, I saw a video of Ammar Nakhswani. He just say that Wilayat-e-Faqih is not among Usul-e-Deen. However, I believe that in Usul-i-Deen, there is Imamate and Imams ask us to follow those who are good in religion if we do not have direct access to Imam. So, are we playing in the hands of Western society ? This is a shame for us, I was really sad to have listen this from Ammar Nakhswani.

I will try not to listen him again.

I think he said you cannot do taqleed on usul-e-deen and of course I don't believe on absolute wilayat-e-faqih. Nobody could represent Imam e zamana. Period. 

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8 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

I would call it misinterpretation of what Ayotullah Khomeini has said. Indeed, obeying Imams is following Prophet PBUHHP and obeying Prophet PBUHHP is obeying Allah AWJ. Prophet PBUHHP said: "If I appoint a slave upon you with a responsibility, you have to follow him". So, following that slave will be following Prophet PBUHHP as slave is emissary of Prophet and Prophet is ambassador of Allah AWJ. However, the slave has no authority to go beyond what Prophet has enjoined and Prophet has no authority to go beyond what Allah has enjoined. So, there is limited capacity which you have misinterpreted.

So are you saying that Imam has oppointed these marja's upon us?

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54 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I think he said you cannot do taqleed on usul-e-deen and of course I don't believe on absolute wilayat-e-faqih. Nobody could represent Imam e zamana. Period. 

Lolz, he does not says that he means something else. If he were to say that he should have said in simple words that it is not in Usul-e-Deen to believe in Ulemas is an article of faith but those who are in Usul-e-Deen namely Prophets and Imams have made it incumbent upon us to look towards those who are good at Deen whenever you have problem or questions in deen. 

53 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

So are you saying that Imam has oppointed these marja's upon us?

Imams have said that in times when you have no access to us refer to those who narrate our ahadith. What does it mean bro ? 

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19 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Recently, I saw a video of Ammar Nakhswani. He just say that Wilayat-e-Faqih is not among Usul-e-Deen. However, I believe that in Usul-i-Deen, there is Imamate and Imams ask us to follow those who are good in religion if we do not have direct access to Imam. So, are we playing in the hands of Western society ? This is a shame for us, I was really sad to have listen this from Ammar Nakhswani.

I will try not to listen him again.

I do not know Allah is best judge. 

But I never liked any of his speech and manner he speaks. He doesn't have humility and decency. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I do not know Allah is best judge. 

But I never liked any of his speech and manner he speaks. He doesn't have humility and decency. 

I cannot say anything about his morals bro, I am a sinner myself, I have no right to talk about anyone's habits. I just oppose what I believe that is against teachings of our Imams. 

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

I cannot say anything about his morals bro, I am a sinner myself, I have no right to talk about anyone's habits. I just oppose what I believe that is against teachings of our Imams. 

Definitely I do know him and I said Allah is judge.

But I never felt positive effect of his lectures And never liked manner of his speech. 

May be I am wrong. 

May be he mostly criticise others. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

Definitely I do know him and I said Allah is judge.

But I never felt positive effect of his lectures And never liked manner of his speech. 

May be I am wrong. 

May be he mostly criticise others. 

He does not abuse any Ulema so there is nothing bad in his way. His way may look to be taunting but that is included in style and it is due to habit of personality. However, I think he is good than Yasir al Habib and people like him. But I disagree with him. I do not have any other concerns except in religion. If he becomes insulting to other ulemas like Yasir al Habib, then one can say he is not humble. But he does not do that so he is better than people like Yasir al Habib. 

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1 minute ago, Sindbad05 said:

He does not abuse any Ulema so there is nothing bad in his way. His way may look to be taunting but that is included in style and it is due to habit of personality. However, I think he is good than Yasir al Habib and people like him. But I disagree with him. I do not have any other concerns except in religion. If he becomes insulting to other ulemas like Yasir al Habib, then one can say he is not humble. But he does not do that so he is better than people like Yasir al Habib. 

You are right. But I feel so may be I am wrong. I never found any of his speech appealing to heart. Just blank rhetoric words. 

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28 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Lolz, he does not says that he means something else. If he were to say that he should have said in simple words that it is not in Usul-e-Deen to believe in Ulemas is an article of faith but those who are in Usul-e-Deen namely Prophets and Imams have made it incumbent upon us to look towards those who are good at Deen whenever you have problem or questions in deen. 

Imams have said that in times when you have no access to us refer to those who narrate our ahadith. What does it mean bro ? 

Imam says reffer to them who narrate to us but it doesn't mean that they could mold religion as they please. Mujtahids could tell you what could be the law of Allah according to his knowledge but you need to understand they don't have as much knowledge as our Imams and if there is an idea of absolute wilayat e faqih then why there is so much difference of opinion? why can't you come to one conclusion or who is going to tell us who is more knowledgeable? 

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2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

You are right. But I feel so may be I am wrong. I never found any of his speech appealing to heart. Just blank rhetoric words. 

lolz, How can I say about you ? You have your own perspective. 

I see that he sometimes narrates hadith and provide good material but it is not necessary that he may be right always in his own opinion which lacks support from Hadith because sometimes other hadiths oppose what he says. So, as Quran says: "Do not be be unjust because of your differences in personal beliefs". 

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7 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Imam says reffer to them who narrate to us but it doesn't mean that they could mold religion as they please. Mujtahids could tell you what could be the law of Allah according to his knowledge but you need to understand they don't have as much knowledge as our Imams and if there is an idea of absolute wilayat e faqih then why there is so much difference of opinion? why can't you come to one conclusion or who is going to tell us who is more knowledgeable? 

Which maraja is molding religion according to his wish ? If there is any maraja, you are encouraged to leave him according to Quran.

As I am oppose to the opinion of Sayed Sadiq Sherazi and his brother and his followers. 

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13 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Which maraja is molding religion according to his wish ? If there is any maraja, you are encouraged to leave him according to Quran.

As I am oppose to the opinion of Sayed Sadiq Sherazi and his brother and his followers. 

 We can't criticise any one. Just we learn to love and guide. Be him worst enemy. If one criticises he is wrong. Unless his heart has love for one whom he criticize that too for guiding him. And at same time keep an eye on  ones own shortcomings. It is most times rhetoric and satisfying ones own patience and arrogance. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sindbad05 said:

Which maraja is molding religion according to his wish ? If there is any maraja, you are encouraged to leave him according to Quran.

As I am oppose to the opinion of Sayed Sadiq Sherazi and his brother and his followers. 

Everyone has their own ruling how would ou know which one is right? and we are supposed to follow most knowladgeable and who will tell us who has more knowledge?

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