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I am Sunni myself. But I wont deny, we have problems in logic. If criticizing the 4 khulafa is kufr then what to say when lady Fatima got angry at Abu Bakr? Was she a kuffar? What about when Aisha criticized Uthman? Was Aisha a kuffar? What about when Muawiyah took up arms against the caliphate of Ali?

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Praising Muawiyah. What's wrong with us? Why we praise him? It's quite clear he harbored hatred of Ali, he took up arms against the caliphate of Ali. He instituted cursing Ali, he killed several sahabas, he broke his own treaty with Hasan by appointing Yazid as successor. And then comes Yazid and kill Hussein. The cursing of Ali was still going until everyone thought it was a Sunnah. When Umar ibn Abd Aziz (r.a) took the caliphate he removed this bidah, a old man came to him and said "the Sunnah, the Sunnah", Umar ibn Abd Aziz replied "The heretic innovation, the heretic innovation, three times". He killed Aisha.

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Confusion - There's a confusion regarding opening prayer with Bismillah, if this is said quietly, not said at all or it's said aloud, well it was consensus among Ali, Hussein, Hassan and Fatima that is said aloud, is not rocket science, why nit look the consensus of this 4 along with the Prophetic sunnah?

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Jewish interpolation. Why we accept Kaab as reliable? He tough Abu Hurairah and influenced Muawiyah?

Then we go around accusing others of following the way of Jews and Christians. We should criticize ourselves first.

Edited by SunniBrother

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11 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I am Sunni myself. But I wont deny, we have problems in logic. If criticizing the 4 khulafa is kufr then what to say when lady Fatima got angry at Abu Bakr? Was she a kuffar? What about when Aisha criticized Uthman? Was Aisha a kuffar? What about when Muawiyah took up arms against the caliphate of Ali?

_______

Praising Muawiyah. What's wrong with us? Why we praise him? It's quite clear he harbored hatred of Ali, he took up arms against the caliphate of Ali. He instituted cursing Ali, he killed several sahabas, he broke his own treaty with Hasan by appointing Yazid as successor. And then comes Yazid and kill Hussein. The cursing of Ali was still going until everyone thought it was a Sunnah. When Umar ibn Abd Aziz (r.a) took the caliphate he removed this bidah, a old man came to him and said "the Sunnah, the Sunnah", Umar ibn Abd Aziz replied "The heretic innovation, the heretic innovation, three times". He killed Aisha.

________

Confusion - There's a confusion regarding opening prayer with Bismillah, if this is said quietly, not said at all or it's said aloud, well it was consensus among Ali, Hussein, Hassan and Fatima that is said aloud, is not rocket science, why nit look the consensus of this 4 along with the Prophetic sunnah?

_______

Jewish interpolation. Why we accept Kaab as reliable? He tough Abu Hurairah and influenced Muawiyah?

Then we go around accusing others of following the way of Jews and Christians. We should criticize ourselves first.

You rightly and sincerely posted some differences and it's justified reality. 

Regarding declaring someone kafir on differences of opinion on shaba has no Islamic basis. 

Neither someone beliving in sect makes one kafir. 

But the kafir is one who so ever after recognising truth deliberately denies it. 

Be it Tawheed of Allah. 

Risalat of Mohhamad saww or willayah of Imam Ali. 

 

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You are now at the phase where you start questioning things you don't understand instead of blind following it simply because you grew up being taught that way from your parents. Your curiosity is allowing you to slowly uncover the truth over falsehood. 

I want you to listen to these videos below when you have time, and when done tell me the things he said you don't agree with and why:

 

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9 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

You are now at the phase where you start questioning things you don't understand instead of blind following it simply because you grew up being taught that way from your parents. Your curiosity is allowing you to slowly uncover the truth over falsehood. 

I want you to listen to these videos below when you have time, and when done tell me the things he said you don't agree with and why:

 

I am not born Muslim. I am a revert and that's why I question everything and I came from a non sect bias. So I am not brainwashed in any sect.

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23 minutes ago, SunniBrother said:

I am not born Muslim. I am a revert and that's why I question everything and I came from a non sect bias. So I am not brainwashed in any sect.

Ahh I see. I highly respect reverts even if they reverted to a sect in which I don't follow, because it shows that they are truly seeking the truth in some way. I still highly recommend you watch these videos, trust me you wont be disappointed. If you have any questions just ask us.

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On 8/30/2017 at 10:59 PM, SunniBrother said:

I am Sunni myself. But I wont deny, we have problems in logic. If criticizing the 4 khulafa is kufr then what to say when lady Fatima got angry at Abu Bakr? Was she a kuffar? What about when Aisha criticized Uthman? Was Aisha a kuffar? What about when Muawiyah took up arms against the caliphate of Ali?

_______

Praising Muawiyah. What's wrong with us? Why we praise him? It's quite clear he harbored hatred of Ali, he took up arms against the caliphate of Ali. He instituted cursing Ali, he killed several sahabas, he broke his own treaty with Hasan by appointing Yazid as successor. And then comes Yazid and kill Hussein. The cursing of Ali was still going until everyone thought it was a Sunnah. When Umar ibn Abd Aziz (r.a) took the caliphate he removed this bidah, a old man came to him and said "the Sunnah, the Sunnah", Umar ibn Abd Aziz replied "The heretic innovation, the heretic innovation, three times". He killed Aisha.

________

Confusion - There's a confusion regarding opening prayer with Bismillah, if this is said quietly, not said at all or it's said aloud, well it was consensus among Ali, Hussein, Hassan and Fatima that is said aloud, is not rocket science, why nit look the consensus of this 4 along with the Prophetic sunnah?

_______

Jewish interpolation. Why we accept Kaab as reliable? He tough Abu Hurairah and influenced Muawiyah?

Then we go around accusing others of following the way of Jews and Christians. We should criticize ourselves first.

Regarding your very first point. Do you think that a Divine Rule can be run by a fallible? Or Non-Divinely selected being who has no connection with Allah regarding it? 

Do you think the religion of Allah is that weak that he can't establish his Proof and authority among normal Muslims?

Also A caliph (Abu Bakr) who angered the Purified one? So when Purified one is angered , this is some serious issue then, Don't you think? Isn't it angering Allah?? How can a man who has angered Allah till his death (because the Purified one never forgave him for the Sake of Allah) can establish the rule of Allah on Earth and then can go on to select the next Caliph??

Don't you think its really absurd. A fallible, sinner selecting another fallible who comes and establishes loads of Biddah. God knows how much Innovation he spread. Is this the Rule? Is this Islam? Was Islam just about Message(Prophet) and not about Divine Guidance (The Guides selected by Allah after Prophet)??

If the Final Vicegerent is selected by Allah then Can't Allah select all the way from the 1st Caliph to the Messaih??

Can't someone claim that we didn't had Divine Guidance O God.

Quran was there, but we were unable to understand it?

Do you think God will leave any grey Area for us to make such an excuse?

Not at all.

And can Earth be devoid of a living Proof of Allah. A Creation among his Creation from whom all helps can be sought??

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I'm fully aware of muawiyah s crimes in history but makes no sense the claim that he killed aisha  , it makes a lot of more sense he poisoned Saad n Abi waqqas and muhammad b maslama but aisha posed no immediate or remote political threat and the muawiyah who took so long to act against a local tribal leader like hujr b adi    would hardly commit such an act of impulsiveness  against an elderly woman who was globally recognized in the Islamic world for better or for worse.

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On 8/30/2017 at 1:08 PM, SunniBrother said:

I am not born Muslim. I am a revert and that's why I question everything and I came from a non sect bias. So I am not brainwashed in any sect.

If that's the case then you should strongly look into the possibility that Neither Shia nor Sunni might be the hundred percent correct interpretation of Islam ! After its commonly recognized the present sectarian  form of either was not completely finalized until the second or third century hijrah.

Maybe both contains some elements of the truth  which was much closer to what The Companions and the family of the prophet believed in ?

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