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White supremacists destroy Virginia town

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5 hours ago, Marbles said:

America needs a reboot. Alt-Right-Delete.

Very witty statement! :cool: 

President Trump finally denounced these terrorists:

Quote

"Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans,"

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/14/543418468/trump-calls-out-kkk-white-supremacists-after-charlottesville-racism-is-evil

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40 minutes ago, notme said:

It's good that he finally spoke up, but I have a hard time believing that Donald would have scripted the word "repugnant" himself. 

The video of his speech shows he was reading from a teleprompter because he never looked down to refer to any notes. The video is on youtube on the PBS NewsHour channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKi2AOPBavU

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salaam all,

Sister @notme - thankfully you and your children are safe and sound.

@David66 - I think bringing Sayeda Zainab (as) into this discussion is completely uncalled for and deserves a suspension if not a ban. Thankfully the Mods are much more patient than me.

That aside, it pains me to say this but I do agree with the statement that we are better off ignoring them than engaging with them.

There is a school of thought that says if a child throws a tantrum, you discipline it. There is another school of thought that says ignore the child completely until he/she gets normal again. I think the latter works well sometimes.

Another example would be if you are walking down the street and an unleashed pitbull starts barking at you. A) You run B) You stop and bark back C) completely ignore it and keep walking away.

Gut reaction would be A.
Emotional reaction would be B.
Prudent reaction would be C.

These white supremacists want nothing more than media attention. They want to highlight the 'plight' of the white man and bring more people to their cause. The counter protesters gave them the very platform they were seeking in the first place.

They have a right to protest so let them do it and ignore it completely. It would have been in one news cycle (24 hours) at most and would have received little national attention. The narrative would have been "a few hundred idiots gathered to hold a rally over a statute and left...may be did some damage but that is expected of this neo-nazis would are an ignorant and wild bunch".

Now the narrative has turned into "they have a right to protest and should have been allowed to do so. The liberal media and Alt-Left wants to take away the white man's rights, etc." The anti-protesters played right into the plans of the Alt-Right white supremacists.

IMHO, a better strategy would have been to hold an anti-racism rally the following weekend at the same spot and may be even pull down the statue...saddam hussain's statue style - okay may be that would be too much.

I guess its easier said than done but you starve a fire of oxygen rather than fan it.

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4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

 a better strategy would have been to hold an anti-racism rally the following weekend at the same spot and may be even pull down the statue...saddam hussain's statue style - okay may be that would be too much.

I guess its easier said than done but you starve a fire of oxygen rather than fan it.

Lol.....do you know how many confederate statues there are in the south? :) 

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49 minutes ago, 2113 said:

Lol.....do you know how many confederate statues there are in the south? :) 

One less than yesterday.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_59923254e4b08a247276c9bf

And soon a few less:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/13/us/kentucky-confederate-monuments/index.html

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On 8/13/2017 at 9:48 AM, David66 said:

Hello,

What do you do when a child throws a temper tantrum?  You ignore them.  That takes away the only power they have.  All this attention and conflict is exactly what they want.  The "alt-left" which is just as repugnant as the "alt-right" played right into their hand. 

All the Best,

David

Salam David,

Ignoring them is not the answer. Nonviolent opposition is the answer.

Jesus Christ, for example, nonviolently opposed the Pharisees who were religiously oppressing the people. He did not ignore them; he called them out on their sins and led a completely different way.

In a similar way, "white" people who are not racist need to take a more active role in nonviolently combating racism.

The following are some ways to do this in churches:

1. Churches need to teach more how Jesus loves people of all skin colors, and that Jesus is in no way an "America First" ruler; America as a nation didn't even exist 2,000 years ago lol.

2. White supremacist group in general hate Jewish people. Churches need to focus more on the fact that Jesus is Jewish, from Bethlehem of Judea (Matthew 2:1, 5; Luke 2:4). It's amazing how many people don't realize that Jesus (Yeshua HaMashiach) is Jewish and the concept of the Mashiach/Messiah/Christ is a Jewish concept, going back to God's promise to King David - who is very Jewish - from the tribe of Judah, 1 of the 12 sons of Israel.)

3. Identify, pray for, and see if there's some way to help angry young white men realize they have nothing to fear from diversity. While some of the angry white men are being identified and at least one has lost his job because of it, identifying racists can be used positively by reaching out to help raise them up out of the pit of racism. After all, God rescued John Newton, an ex-slaver, from racism and used people in his life to show him that slavery is evil. John Newton is the author of the song Amazing Grace. Definitely there are many potential John Newtons who can be rescued from the evil of racism.

4. Hate the sin, not the sinner. Racists have an obvious lack of love in their hearts. Hatred towards them will not thaw the ice of hatred, but love can. Love is what can transform a hater into a friend.

The following are some ways to nonviolently combat racism in the community:

1. Get young white men involved in fun activities with people of different skin colors and ethnic groups, so that they can hopefully make friends with them, thus saving them from choosing a hate-filled lifestyle. (This is also an important way to protect young me of any skin color from joining gangs.)

2. Reach out with love and kindness to an angry white person. Behind that anger is fear. Fear is a crippler; many people are afraid of what they don't understand. Most racists don't even try to understand the people they hate and are scared of, so it's very important to realize that they need help to even get to that point.

3. Be calm and courteous. Racists speak the language of hatred. They can't help it; it just overflows from the condition of their hearts. However, to combat racism, one needs to stand above petty and rude hate speech, and address the racist kindly and with good manners. There's never a good reason to lower oneself to the level of a racist in terms of speech and actions! 

4. Definitely nonviolently protest, but make sure to never be violent, either offensively or defensively. Rather, obey the law and get your message heard via positive signs (like Make America Kind Again) and positive actions (like chanting God made diversity).

So, those are some suggestions. Ignoring however won't make racists go away. It'll just motivate them to become even louder and more obnoxious, because they crave attention. And they're not stupid. They want violent conflict because that helps their agenda.

Peace and God bless you

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:47 PM, notme said:

Can we get back on topic? Am I going to have to close my own discussion? 

We are discussing the White Nationalist attacks on Charlottesville VA on Friday and Saturday. 

Monday the 14th 2300+

My local news reported that James Alex Fields was diagnosed with schizophrenia  while in High School.

This is the period-of-life when he developed an interest/fascination with Nazis.

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24 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Monday the 14th 2300+

My local news reported that James Alex Fields was diagnosed with schizophrenia  while in High School.

This is the period-of-life when he developed an interest/fascination with Nazis.

Salam Hasanhh,

It's so sad that he was not reached with a message of love and kindness; instead, the Nazis lured him into their camp. :(

Hopefully this motivates more leaders in communities to reach out to angry, confused young white men (some of whom have mental difficulties like schizophrenia) and encourage them into positive interests before gangs like the Nazis snatch them up for their own agendas.

Peace and God bless you

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On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:56 AM, notme said:

You clearly have never raised children. 

Ignoring only works when the child (in this case the White Supremacist protestors) is in a location where they can't hurt anyone else or cause property damage. In public the brat must be contained, corrected, and reprimanded, and any harm or damage corrected to the best ability of the caretaker (in this case the police/government). 

----

Any other ideas? 

My parents had the same rule as my grandparents: behave in public or you 'get it' at home.

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1 hour ago, 2113 said:

Lol.....do you know how many confederate statues there are in the south? :) 

There are lots but this is the one on tap for now. 

I am actually not sure at what point Confederates and Racists became synonymous. The statues commemorate the Civil War and not racism...as far as I know.

24 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Monday the 14th 2300+

My local news reported that James Alex Fields was diagnosed with schizophrenia  while in High School.

This is the period-of-life when he developed an interest/fascination with Nazis.

Come on now. A white person commits a violent crime and he is mentally challenged. A Muslim does it and he is a terrorist.

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5 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

My parents had the same rule as my grandparents: behave in public or you 'get it' at home.

Sounds like my parents and grandparents :)

Definitely I wish that all the protestors against the racist rally had behaved themselves. White supremacists want people who oppose them to misbehave, get violent, and disobey the law. That's why it's so important to control oneself, even when angry.

Peace and God bless

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16 minutes ago, Christianlady said:

In a similar way, "white" people who are not racist need to take a more active role in nonviolently combating racism.

Peace sister,

I am not sure if I agree with this. I say this because all Muslims are held accountable for the terrorism committed by a handful of "Muslims" but we are not responsible for them.

Similarly, I can't, won't and don't hold all white people accountable for the ignorance and hatred of a few.

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1 minute ago, shiaman14 said:

There are lots but this is the one on tap for now. 

I am actually not sure at what point Confederates and Racists became synonymous. The statues commemorate the Civil War and not racism...as far as I know.
 

Salam Shiaman14,

Slavery is why. One of the reasons for the Confederates is the desire to keep their slaves, since slaves made rich white landowners' lives much easier.

Concerning the statutes, I personally believe all Confederate statues and flags should be found in history museums. If all the citizens in the USA could vote on that, it would be interesting to see the results.

In Trumpspeak, the Confederates are "losers."

Why should their flags and statues still be up?

Quote

Come on now. A white person commits a violent crime and he is mentally challenged. A Muslim does it and he is a terrorist.

Muslims can be diagnosed with a mental challenge as well. Mental challenges can be found in people no matter their religion or skin color, but some are not diagnosed by a medical professional. It would be interesting to know how many Muslims who have killed people and called a "terrorist" actually had a mental disorder, though one not diagnosed?

Peace and God bless you

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I'll say it again: it was never about the statue.

Statues of Confederate leaders don't change anything. If they stand or if they are demolished, it doesn't change history. Some of them did great things outside of the civil war that bear commemoration. Some genuinely believed they were on the side of good. 

Historical preservation is fine, lovely. Causes the people to ask questions, to see that even the most heinous periods in history have heroes worth remembering and events worth discussing.

But if the statues are going to be used as rallying points for hate groups, we are better off without them. 

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18 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Come on now. A white person commits a violent crime and he is mentally challenged. A Muslim does it and he is a terrorist.

l agree with your sentiment but not with your reaction.

l'II Iook for a Iink.

Added:  Some sources quote a direct source, such as a former teacher. Other sources write he "confided" this to an interviewer. This is the shortest summary:

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/james-alex-fields-jr-charlottesville-suspect-arrested-driver-crashed-rally-republican-age-bio-video/

Edited by hasanhh
Added:

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2 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Peace sister,

I am not sure if I agree with this. I say this because all Muslims are held accountable for the terrorism committed by a handful of "Muslims" but we are not responsible for them.

Peace Brother Shiaman14,

Awesome point :) True.

Quote

Similarly, I can't, won't and don't hold all white people accountable for the ignorance and hatred of a few.

That is very kind and noble of you, and is very much appreciated. However, it is important that white people who are not racist reach out and strive to rescue white people who are racist from the pit of racism. It's difficult but not impossible. Ignoring them or hating on racists won't rescue them from racism; in some cases it just makes it worse. :(

Peace and God bless you

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2 minutes ago, notme said:

I'll say it again: it was never about the statue.

Statues of Confederate leaders don't change anything. If they stand or if they are demolished, it doesn't change history. Some of them did great things outside of the civil war that bear commemoration. Some genuinely believed they were on the side of good. 

Historical preservation is fine, lovely. Causes the people to ask questions, to see that even the most heinous periods in history have heroes worth remembering and events worth discussing.

But if the statues are going to be used as rallying points for hate groups, we are better off without them. 

 

I respect that, although l don't think most people know that General Lee actually kept the Confederacy from rising again by keeping Confederate votes out during the Reconstruction era.

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3 minutes ago, notme said:

I'll say it again: it was never about the statue.Statues of Confederate leaders don't change anything. If they stand or if they are demolished, it doesn't change history.

Salam Notme,

True.

Quote

But if the statues are going to be used as rallying points for hate groups, we are better off without them. 

Personally, I'd rather have a statue of Frederick Douglass in my neck of the woods than a Robert E Lee statue. Of course, Confederates would want to shoot me for that, but I'm all for replacing some heroes with other heroes. Frederick Douglass is a hero of mine, whereas Robert E Lee isn't.

Personally, I don't want to demolish Robert E Lee's statues; I'm fine with them being sold to people who care about preserving them or move them into museums.

Hopefully, more and more young people will decide to replace statues of questionable heroes with definite heroes. :) And yes, I'm totally for taking Andrew Jackson off the $20 bill and replacing him with Harriet Tubman!!! :) Why hasn't that been done already? (i don't think this is an off topic remark because there is a new civil war going on right now... one where the culturally diverse are clashing with those who want to make America "white" again.) Our heroes need to be more culturally diverse, you know? :)

Peace and God bless you

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I respect that, although l don't think most people know that General Lee actually kept the Confederacy from rising again by keeping Confederate votes out during the Reconstruction era.

Salam Gaius Caesar,

I didn't know that. That's interesting. To be blunt, I've never been interested in trying to find positive attributes about the Confederacy or any of the Confederate leaders. However, it's good to know some positives about them, hmm?

Did General Lee not want to be in the Confederacy? Did he want to stay part of the USA?

Peace and God bless you

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1 hour ago, notme said:

While we're on the subject of statues, here's to hoping they take the ones of Jefferson Davis down lol. Seems like there are a lot of those too. Esp in Virginia and NC. 

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19 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Peace sister,

I am not sure if I agree with this. I say this because all Muslims are held accountable for the terrorism committed by a handful of "Muslims" but we are not responsible for them.

Similarly, I can't, won't and don't hold all white people accountable for the ignorance and hatred of a few.

For minorities, all "whites" are guilty.

Add in the femo-nazis it is 'white men'.

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1 minute ago, 2113 said:

While we're on the subject of statues, here's to hoping they take the ones of Jefferson Davis down lol. Seems like there are a lot of those too. Esp in Virginia and NC. 

This group includes some of my hometown friends.

http://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Charleston-gathering-to-call-for-removal-of-Stonewall-Jackson-statue-at-WVa-Capitol-440190913.html

It doesn't even make sense to have a statue celebrating a Confederate general on the Capitol grounds in a Union state! Heck, West Virginia only exists because they decided to stand against the Confederacy!

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Just now, hasanhh said:

For minorities, all "whites" are guilty.

 

Salam Hasanhh,

Nuh uh. My friends who are from minority groups don't believe all whites are guilty, though my hubby does like to tease me whenever a white person does something bad, but he's just joking. :)

Quote

Add in the femo-nazis it is 'white men'.

Well, as a feminist, I do have to say there are a lot of things I wish many white men had done differently, to put it nicely. Did you know I used to be so proud of being of English-Celtic heritage when I was a kid, cause I was taught that the sun never sets on the British Empire... I thought that was a good thing, until I learned how much harm the British Empire did to many people in the world. :( And yes, I blame the British men of the past for that. I wish they hadn't done what they did.

Peace and God bless you

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