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notme

White supremacists destroy Virginia town

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Hello,

23 hours ago, notme said:

He's always been very selective with his answers. You should used to it by now. I hope I'm wrong but I get the feeling he's here to win arguments, not to learn. 

I'd also be interested in hearing @David66's suggestions for what we should do to oppose these terrorists. He says he disagrees with their ideology, but all I've seen is discouraging opposing them. If he's sure our ideas won't work, why doesn't he come up with some better ones? 

What do you do when a child throws a temper tantrum?  You ignore them.  That takes away the only power they have.  All this attention and conflict is exactly what they want.  The "alt-left" which is just as repugnant as the "alt-right" played right into their hand. 

All the Best,

David

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14 hours ago, David66 said:

What do you do when a child throws a temper tantrum?  You ignore them. 

You clearly have never raised children. 

Ignoring only works when the child (in this case the White Supremacist protestors) is in a location where they can't hurt anyone else or cause property damage. In public the brat must be contained, corrected, and reprimanded, and any harm or damage corrected to the best ability of the caretaker (in this case the police/government). 

----

Any other ideas? 

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3 hours ago, Haji 2003 said:

But if the people standing up for Confederate generals are neo-Nazis and race supremacists and no one with an inclusive agenda willing to do so, then there is a problem with that cause.

There are historical preservation societies who want to preserve these monuments, and would like to see the monuments amended with signage giving historical context. Unfortunately, the hate groups like to hide behind the peaceful preservationists. It was a preservationist group who initially opposed removal of the statue, then White Nationalists found out about the small protest and descended from all over the country upon this small town like a plague, waving their torches, brandishing their rifles, shouting racial epithets, starting fights, and ultimately assaulting and murdering members of an opposition group as they peacefully dispersed as directed by the police. 

It was never about the statue. 

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12 minutes ago, notme said:

There are historical preservation societies who want to preserve these monuments, and would like to see the monuments amended with signage giving historical context.

That would seem to me to be the intelligent response as well. For the anti-confederates preservation of the statues would serve as proof so to the longevity of attitudes that supported the Confederacy.

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14 hours ago, David66 said:

Hello,

@notme

Give my analogy a little more thought before you over apply and dismiss it.

All the Best,

David

Doesn't work, it will only make the tantrum bigger and louder in attempts to grab your attention: You and I both know that its really annoying to listen to in public. Plus the kid could act up even worse because you are ignoring it.

We're not talking about a petulant child, we're talking about grown men who will hurt you without hesitation because you have extra melanin in your skin, hiding behind the font of "historical preservation".

Any other suggestions?

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13 hours ago, hasanhh said:

@notme, @Gaius I. Caesar @kirtc @Laayla

Now you all are on David66's 'case'. Trying to understand him is easy.

Remember Al Gore's "Inconvenient Truth" ?  Not everybody agrees with the former VP.

Think of David's posts as the Inconvenient Observation.

l, of course, have never held a conversation with David although we are reasonably close together --geographically. Yet l do write now that David strikes me as a person who dislikes glosses and declaratives.

#For you in other countries who did not understand this abstract, last sentence:

gloss = a superficial explanation or commentary.

declarative = refers to a Declarative Sentence. Also, the definitive assertion of 'truth'.

Lexicographic comment @starlight ?

And recently, David posted some interesting links.

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Dear brother, this is not his first time bringing up Sayyida Zaynab 3lah salam. He did it before when talking about false flags.  He gets away these comments time and again and I personally find them offensive.  It's like he is mocking us within the rules of SC, which is quite clever and coy.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is a trained gov't worker doing his job monitoring and participating in forums.  

I don't think anyone on SC wishes him any harm, but I wonder how he truly feels about shias and why time and again he does indirect insults about Sayyida Zaynab.   If he really read about her with a clean and clear intention, he wouldn't resort to such mockery.

Anyways, whatever his intentions may what he wishes upon us he gets it back tenfold behaq Mohamad wa ahli Mohammad.

And thank you for the explanation you provided above.  Helpful and informative, God bless you, and do it more often, Mash'Allah always learning from your knowledge.  Thank you brother.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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Hello,

3 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Doesn't work, it will only make the tantrum bigger and louder in attempts to grab your attention: You and I both know that its really annoying to listen to in public. Plus the kid could act up even worse because you are ignoring it.

We're not talking about a petulant child, we're talking about grown men who will hurt you without hesitation because you have extra melanin in your skin, hiding behind the font of "historical preservation".

Any other suggestions?

I disagree.  The confrontation between the two groups turned this into a story and a tragedy.  Had they been ignored, they would have had their little march, law enforcement would have handled any offenses, the "alt-right" members would be back in their hometown now and this would be a non-story.  The White Nationalist group had a permit to assemble.  If the "alt-left" wanted to make their views heard they could apply for a permit and assemble next weekend.

I still think my suggestion is valid.  But, I would like to hear suggestions you may have.

 

2 hours ago, Laayla said:

Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Dear brother, this is not his first time bringing up Sayyida Zaynab 3lah salam. He did it before when talking about false flags.  He gets away these comments time and again and I personally find them offensive.  It's like he is mocking us within the rules of SC, which is quite clever and coy.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is a trained gov't worker doing his job monitoring and participating in forums.  

I don't think anyone on SC wishes him any harm, but I wonder how he truly feels about shias and why time and again he does indirect insults about Sayyida Zaynab.   If he really read about her with a clean and clear intention, he wouldn't resort to such mockery.

Anyways, whatever his intentions may what he wishes upon us he gets it back tenfold behaq Mohamad wa ahli Mohammad.

And thank you for the explanation you provided above.  Helpful and informative, God bless you, and do it more often, Mash'Allah always learning from your knowledge.  Thank you brother.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

Am I not allowed to mention Sayyida Zaynab?   I chose the analogy not to offend or insinuate the two are equal but to help give insight into the mindset of this "alt-right" group we are discussing. 

While not appropriate on this thread, since you made the accusation against me, please start a thread with proof I have said anything offensive in this regard.  I am certain you can not produce any examples.  I do not denigrate the religious figures of other faiths.  And, I do not refer to the the leaders of others using childish word-plays.  I find both to be a sign of immaturity.

All the Best,

David

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6 hours ago, David66 said:

I do not denigrate the religious figures of other faiths.  And, I do not refer to the the leaders of others using childish word-plays.  I find both to be a sign of immaturity.

Then what was this?

On 8/12/2017 at 10:27 PM, David66 said:

Would you say the same thing about the Sayyidah Zaynab Mosque?

What were you trying to do by asking this question? I find you immature in the sense that you cry foul, play the victim and deflect blame from yourself by saying "I don't disrespect religions.". The problem with that is you are a terrible liar, David. You did and again, you have no reason to be annoyed with me.

You have got to be really naive to think that is a comparison between the alt-right and Shia Islam. But I don't think you are naive, I think you are a very clever troll.

6 hours ago, David66 said:

please start a thread with proof I have said anything offensive in this regard.  I am certain you can not produce any examples. 

We did, it is not what is being said that is offensive but what is being implied by the comparison and that question. If you didn't mean it, then please explain what you meant.

Edited by Hameedeh
Edited the quote.

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^ Hello,

This is just going around in circles.  I have tried to explain my actions but you have made up your mind.  This will be my last post on this thread.

6 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

What were you trying to do by asking this question? I find you immature in the sense that you cry foul, play the victim and deflect blame from yourself by saying "I don't disrespect religions.". The problem with that is you are a terrible liar, David. You did and again, you have no reason to be annoyed with me.

 

6 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

We did, it is not what is being said that is offensive but what is being implied by the comparison and that question. If you didn't mean it, then please explain what you meant.

Please provide proof on this thread that you speak of or apologize.  Also, where is this thread?

All the Best,

David

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Can we get back on topic? Am I going to have to close my own discussion? 

We are discussing the White Nationalist attacks on Charlottesville VA on Friday and Saturday. 

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@notme @Laayla @Hameedeh, and especially you @David66

Still think you can ignore this? I mean clearly they are disrupting and have harmed/are harming Charlottesvile but its ok, let them cry about becoming a race minority soon and run over innocent people. Maybe they will go away.

I suggest that the US military come down and give this white supremacy nonsense the absolute thrashing of a lifetime. Again these are adults and not children.

Edited by Gaius I. Caesar

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3 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I suggest that the US military come down and give this white supremacy nonsense the absolute thrashing of a lifetime. Again these are adults and not children.

You and I both know the Commander in Chief isn't going to order that. Maybe the governor will send in the VA National Guard. I believe he has the authority to do that.

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Quote

Would you say the same thing about the Sayyidah Zaynab Mosque?

All the Best,

David

Quote

I have insulted no revered religious figure and I am offended by your assertion. 

Moderately Annoyed,

Quote

Does this view include Palestinians?  Or is it just reserved for those you do not like?

All here right on this thread ^

 

28 minutes ago, David66 said:

^ Hello,

This is just going around in circles.  I have tried to explain my actions but you have made up your mind.  This will be my last post on this thread.

Good, you have provided nothing conductive whatsoever on this thread and were too busy playing the victim with me. I wash my hands of this discussion with you.

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This article includes some rather disturbing imagery. Viewer discretion is advised.

https://www.inverse.com/article/35455-charlottesville-va-rally-white-kkk-unite-the-right-antifa-photos?utm_content=inf_800_3448_2&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=jabra&utm_campaign=influencer&tse_id=INF_c9d812d0806611e7b54e3f059c156cd3

If you are American and you aren't angry, you are either part of the problem or not paying attention. 

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16 minutes ago, notme said:

If you are American and you aren't angry, you are either part of the problem or not paying attention. 

Both Republicans and Democrats have stood up to denounce the violence. The whole incident is disturbing. 

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15 minutes ago, Hameedeh said:

Any news about vigils for the woman who was killed? The two other deaths were from a police helicopter that crashed while monitoring the disturbance. 

I've seen Facebook and Twitter posts commemorating her, and a link to a GoFundMe page for her family, but I don't have specific information about vigils. 

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5 hours ago, David66 said:

^ Hello,

This is just going around in circles.  I..

All the Best,

For me it has been more of a spiral.

@Laayla  l'm not Shi'a so l do not share some sensitivities --to use an easily understood reference word- that you all do. What was he wrote and why is it "offensive".

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Do not agree with this:

5 hours ago, notme said:

The reason l disagree with this opportunity-to-show-off-for-myself-like-a-jack-in-the-box governor:

19 hours ago, hasanhh said:

The Alt-Rightists at UVa were chanting about "Free Speech" as well as less desirable things.

l remember reading an OpEd in the Wall Street Journal in the mid- to late 90s  --as l have writ of before on SC.

The theme/point of the oped was that whenever political correctness existed before throughout history, it always 'came apart violently'.

Hopefully, this is not of the start of the same.

The reason this applies, in my opiunon, is from not his childish on-the-podium commentary, but from what he said on the outside steps. In short, these are not Americans, leave the country, yadda-yadda. This kind of unthoughtful rhetoric not only congeals their group but also will gain them sympathizers.

The foreign media has reported similar to what @David66 's Yahoo article link: the lefties and counter-protesters attacked the Alt-Right Marchers.

Comment: A media commentator remarked Sunday (the 13th) night -as did a interviewee- about the torches the marchers were carrying as symbols of terror.  Two points: before the 20th Century on dark nights people carried torches because they didn't have flashlights. So, so would night-raiders.  Secondly, the pinko-progressives, vigil-goers, religious groups all use candles ... so what have we now? "Candle Envy" ?

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum 

Sister @notmeIf you give me permission to post this for brother Hassan. 

Rasoul Allah didn't want any reward for delivering the message of Islam, except the love of his family.  If you love Rasoul Allah, you must love his family.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah 

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Hi,

I condemn white supremacism of course as many others on here. But why choose to take down the statue of General Robert E Lee and cause this conflict in the first place? Like Isn't it a historical monument? These types of monuments are all over the southeast and are symbols of a places history no? What was the purpose? A places history shouldn't simply be wiped out or erased. Just my opinion. If you're going to take down the statue of Robert E Lee, then why not demolish appomatox court house or disband all the civil war museums which exist as symbols of history? Its kind of confusing. 

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