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The Quran by Hazrat Ali (as)

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If a sunni brother says to you:

According to you shias the Quran was kept away from being given to others, and was concealed from being given to others. And was transfered generation after generation to Mahdi a.s.... but instead, in the Quran Allah says:     

2:174 - SHAKIR

Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement.

 

 

So now my question is: Did Hazrat Ali (as) did the wrong thing there? If not, then how to refute this?

Edited by King-Ali

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3 minutes ago, King-Ali said:

If a sunni brother says to you:

According to you shias the Quran was kept away from being given to others, and was concealed from being given to others. And was transfered generation after generation to Mahdi a.s.... but instead, in the Quran Allah says:     

2:174 - SHAKIR

Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement.

 

 

So now my question is: Did Hazrat Ali (as) did the wrong thing there? If not, then how to refute this?

Imam Ali did not have a different Quran. There is only one Quran. What Imam Ali (as) had was a detailed tafseer about every single ayah, its interpretation, its meaning, who is applied too, etc.

You should tell a that same sunni brother, that Hz Aisha let a goat (or sheep) eat pages of the Quran which contained verses about stoning the adulters. So did Hz Aisha and her goat do wrong? Additionally, since she let her goat eat the verses of the Quran, did that goat become a holy goat and thus making it impermissible to kill it and eat it. OR because the goat dared to eat the verses of the Quran, it became wajib-ul-qatl. And if it became wajib-ul-qatl, could one eat its meat because indirectly whoever would eat the goat would be eating the verses of the Quran. Since the verses were about stoning, would that person then have to be stoned to death?

No sunni will ever dare to ask you this question again.

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7 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Imam Ali did not have a different Quran. There is only one Quran. What Imam Ali (as) had was a detailed tafseer about every single ayah, its interpretation, its meaning, who is applied too, etc.

You should tell a that same sunni brother, that Hz Aisha let a goat (or sheep) eat pages of the Quran which contained verses about stoning the adulters. So did Hz Aisha and her goat do wrong? Additionally, since she let her goat eat the verses of the Quran, did that goat become a holy goat and thus making it impermissible to kill it and eat it. OR because the goat dared to eat the verses of the Quran, it became wajib-ul-qatl. And if it became wajib-ul-qatl, could one eat its meat because indirectly whoever would eat the goat would be eating the verses of the Quran. Since the verses were about stoning, would that person then have to be stoned to death?

No sunni will ever dare to ask you this question again.

 

I get the first part that it was a copy of Quran (plus tafseer of Ali as). And let's say if I hide and do not want to show my copy of the Quran to you, it does not relate to this ayah at all. Yes, I get it.

But... I didn't get how a goat eating some verses is related to Ali a.s. not giving his copy of Quran.

Anyways, here are a bunch of references at the story you relayed. 

 

Quote

There is a famous narration narrated from Ayesha stating that Goat ate a paper which had some verses written. Let us see how it is narrated, and what is the opinion of Scholars of Ahlu Sunnah regarding this narration.

1944

حدثنا أبو سلمة يحيى بن خلف حدثنا عبد الأعلى عن محمد بن إسحق عن عبد الله بن أبي بكر عن عمرة عن عائشة وعن عبد الرحمن بن القاسم عن أبيه عن عائشة قالت لقد نزلت آية الرجم ورضاعة الكبير عشرا ولقد كان في صحيفة تحت سريري فلما مات رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتشاغلنا بموته دخل داجن فأكلها
 

Ayesha said that no Doubt, verse of Rajam and Breast feeding of adult by 10 sucklings was revealed, and it was on a paper below my bedding. When Prophet (asws) died, and we were busy, Goat entered and ate it [1]

The narration has been termed Hasan/Good by Hafiz Zubair Ali Zai [2]

Sheikh Albany also termed it Hasan in his Sahih Sunan Ibn Maja [3]

This narration has also been authenticated by Sheikh Hussein Saleem Asad in his reseach of Musnad Abu Ya’la, and he termed one of the chains as Hasan; and termed the chain of Musnad Ahmad as Sahih/authentic [4]

Ibn Hazm also authenticated this narration as Sahih [5]

Ibn Hajar also expressed this view while talking of claim of Zamkhashri, who had said

وأمّا ما يحكى: أن تلك الزيادة كانت في صحيفة في بيت عائشة رضى الله عنها فأكلتها الداجن فمن تأليفات الملاحدة والروافض

What is rumoured that this was extra part in a page in house of Ayesa, and it was eaten away by Goat. It is there in books of Atheists and Shias

Ibn Hajar said in response

. قلت: بل راويها ثقة غير متهم

I say: Rather all narrators of this narration are Thiqa/trustworthy and none of them is charged [6]

Behqi also accepted that this incident took place, and he said

قال أحمد : هكذا بلغنا هذا الحديث ، وهذا أمر وقع ، فأخبرت عن الواقعة دون تعلق حكم بها ، وقد كانت آية الرجم معلومة عند الصحابة وعلموا نسخ تلاوتها وإثباتها في المصحف دون حكمها ، وذلك حين راجع النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عمر في كتبها ، فلم يأذن له فيها . وأما رضاعة الكبير فهي عند غير عائشة منسوخة ، أو كانت رخصة لسالم وحده ، فلذلك لم يثبتوها . وأما رضاعته عشرا فقد أخبرت في ، رواية عمرة ، عن عائشة ، أنها صارت منسوخة بخمس يحرمن ، فكان نسخ حكمها وتلاوتها معلوما عند الصحابة ، فلأجل ذلك لم يثبتوها لا لأجل أكل الداجن صحيفتها ، وهذا واضح بين بحمد الله ونعمته

Ahmad (Behqi) said: This is how we got this narration, and this actually happened; she reported the incidence without giving any ruling; For sure, verse of Rajam was known amongst sahaba, and they knew that its recitation and its existence in scriptures(of Quran) were abrogated, and only its ruling existed. and that was when the Prophet(saw) approched Umar and did not allow him to write it. and as regards to breastfeeding adults, it was abrogated except according to Ayesha’s opinion; or they said it was a permission for salim only. and because of that they did not confirm it. and as regards to breastfeeding adults ten times, it is reported through the narration of Amra from Ayesha, that it was reduced to 5 breastfeedings, and the abrogation of its ruling and recitation was known amongst sahaba, and that is why they did not confirm it, not because the goat ate her scriptures, and that is clear by the grace of Allah [7]

So, We see many great names who have accepted this incident.

 

 

********************************************************

REFERENCES:-

1- Sunan Ibn Maja, 3/156, Book of Nikah, chapter Breast feeding of Adults (  رضاع الکبیر), translation by Ata ullah Sajid, Research by Hafiz Abu Tahir Zubair Ali Zai, printed by Dar us Salam

2- Same as above

3- Sahih sunan Ibn Maja, Sheikh Albany, 2/148

4- Musnad Abu Ya’la, research by Sheikh Hussein Saleem Asad, 8/64

5- al Mohalli, 11/235, his words are

لقد نزلت آية الرجم والرضاعة، فكانتا في صحيفة تحت سريري، فلما مات رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم تشاغلنا بموته، فدخل داجن فأكلها.
قال أبو محمد(ابن حزم) : وهذا حديث صحيح

Taken from this link

6- Opinion of Ibn Hajar can be found on this link with the following wordings

1 – الزيادةُ [أي في آياتِ سورةِ الأحزاب] كانت فيِ صحيفةٍ في بيتِ عائشةَ فأَكلَها الدَّاجِنُ
الراوي: – المحدث:ابن حجر العسقلاني – المصدر: الكافي الشاف – الصفحة أو الرقم: 224
خلاصة حكم المحدث: راويها ثقة غير متهم

Apart from this, it is present in Al Kashaf al Ghawamidh al Tanzil,3/518, in footnotes, and there we find

. قلت: بل راويها ثقة غير متهم. قال إبراهيم الحربي في الغريب: حدثنا هرون بن عبد الله أن الرجم أنزل في سورة الأحزاب مكتوبا في خوصة في بيت عائشة. فأكلتها شاتها» وروى أبو يعلى والدارقطني والبزار والطبراني في الأوسط والبيهقي في المعرفة، كلهم من طريق محمد بن إسحاق عن عبد الله بن أبى بكر عن عائشة وعن عبد الرحمن بن القاسم عن أبيه عن عائشة انتهى

7- Maariat us Sunnan wa al Athaar, Behqi, 13/22

My source: https://ahlubait.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/narration-of-ayesha-regarding-goat-eating-verses-of-quran/

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7 minutes ago, King-Ali said:

 

I get the first part that it was a copy of Quran (plus tafseer of Ali as). And let's say if I hide and do not want to show my copy of the Quran to you, it does not relate to this ayah at all. Yes, I get it.

but the thing is Imam Ali (as) did not hide it. The Caliph of the time refused to accept his copy of the Quran so Imam Ali (as) kept it to himself. Let's say Imam Ali organized the Quran by order of revelation and the Caplih(s) chose to order by length - a great schism would have taken place to determine the right compilation of the Quran had Imam Ali insisted on making his tafseer public. So Imam Ali (as) saved the Ummah from et another great fitna.

The sunni should be thanking Imam Ali (as).

10 minutes ago, King-Ali said:

But... I didn't get how a goat eating some verses is related to Ali a.s. not giving his copy of Quran.

I thought we were discussing the sahaba and what they did wrong with the Quran.

One sahabi alledgedly did wrong by keeping his copy of the Quran to himself when the Caliph of the time refused to accept it.
One zawja let a goat eat verses of the Quran.

I guess the sunni only wants to discuss what Imam Ali (alledgedly) did wrong but not the wrongdoings of other sahaba and aswaj.

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It was a Mus'haf with interpretations of every ayah and surah,according to the right date of revelation cause Imam Ali was taught by Prophet Muhammad EVERY Surah,so it was better than Uthman's one ...

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19 hours ago, King-Ali said:

If a sunni brother says to you:

According to you shias the Quran was kept away from being given to others, and was concealed from being given to others. And was transfered generation after generation to Mahdi a.s.... but instead, in the Quran Allah says:     

2:174 - SHAKIR

Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the day of resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement.

 

 

So now my question is: Did Hazrat Ali (as) did the wrong thing there? If not, then how to refute this?

Do you understand this...

Quote

I am leaving among you the Two Weighty Things: the Book of Allah and my `Itrat (Progeny), my Ahlul Bayt. So long as you (simultaneously) uphold both of them, you will never be misled after me; so, do not go ahead of them else you should perish, and do not lag behind them else you should perish; do not teach them, for they are more knowledgeable than you.

https://www.al-islam.org/shiah-are-real-ahlul-sunnah-muhammad-al-tijani-al-samawi/hadith-al-thaqalayn-according-shias

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On 8/5/2017 at 2:59 AM, shiaman14 said:

but the thing is Imam Ali (as) did not hide it. The Caliph of the time refused to accept his copy of the Quran so Imam Ali (as) kept it to himself. Let's say Imam Ali organized the Quran by order of revelation and the Caplih(s) chose to order by length - a great schism would have taken place to determine the right compilation of the Quran had Imam Ali insisted on making his tafseer public. So Imam Ali (as) saved the Ummah from another great fitna.

I get what you're saying. But how'd you refute the following narration that sunni's put up in their defence:
 

Quote

Mus’ab bin Sa’d reported: ‘Uthman delievered a sermon to the people and said: Your prophet did (just) fifteen years ago and you differ regarding Qur’an. Bring to me anything you have from the Qur’an that he heard from the Messenger of Allah –may Allah bless him. Then it started that a man would come to him with writing on pieces of board and shoulder-blades and parchments. So whoever came to him with something, he asked: “Did you hear this from the Messenger of Allah –may Allah bless him?” Then he asked, “Who is best in language among the people?” They said, “Sa’id bin al-‘As.” Then he asked, “Who is the best in writing among the people?” They said, “Zaid bin Thabit.” He said. “Then let Zaid write and Sa’id dictate.” And then he got the Musahif written and sent to various cities. And I did not see anyone objecting to it. (Kitabul Masahif, Hadith 67. Classified as Sahih by Dr. Muhibuddin Wa’iz) 

The above narration shows that Uthman (RA) did consider everyone's writing of the Qur'an, it should be noted that Zaid bin Thabit(RA) was also one of the Prophet's (SAW) scribes and he had this to say:

Zaid bin Thabit -may Allah be pleased with him- who was in charge of both the endeavors testified that after making independent Mushaf during the time of ‘Uthman he compared it with what was prepared during Abu Bakr’s time and found them exactly similar. He said: 

“I compared the Mushaf with those manuscripts; they did not differ in anything.” (Mushkil al-Athar, Hadith 2645)

 

Is the above narration not "sahih" according to shias? or what do we have to say regarding it?

 

Edit: My Opinion: Or maybe it was said after Ali a.s. had returned according to the following narration?

 

Quote

When Hazrat Ali (a.s.) sent the message that,

"I have taken a promise that I will not step out of my house, except for Salat : till the time I collect the Quran"
the people remained silent for a few days.

When Hazrat Ali (a.s.) completed the Quran on cloth and put his (a.s.) seal on it, he brought it to the congregation of people in the Masjid of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.). He (a.s.) announced to them in a loud voice,

"0 people! Since the demise of the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.a.) till this day, I was busy in his shrouding and burial and in collecting the Quran. The Quran, which I have compiled, is in this cloth. There is no verse revealed by Allah to His Prophet (s.a.w.a.), except that I have collected it. There is no verse, which the Holy Prophet (s.a. w.a.) taught me its meaning or its interpretation, but it is in this Quran. I have completed this so that tomorrow you do not get an opportunity to say that we were unaware of it. On the day of Qiyamat, you should not get an opportunity to claim that I did not call you for my help, or remind you of the fulfillment of my rights over you, and that, I did not invite you to the first and the last from the Book of Allah. "

Umar rejected this by saying,

"The Quran, which is with us, is better that what you are inviting us towards." 

On hearing this, Hazrat Ali (a.s.) returned home. 1 Sulaym reports that for some days after this incident, the people maintained their silence.

Reference:
1 Tafseer'e Ayyashi, volume 2 page 66/67; Al Ikhtesas, page 186.

 

@shiaman14

Edited by King-Ali

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21 hours ago, King-Ali said:

I get what you're saying. But how'd you refute the following narration that sunni's put up in their defence:
 

 

Is the above narration not "sahih" according to shias? or what do we have to say regarding it?

 

Edit: My Opinion: Or maybe it was said after Ali a.s. had returned according to the following narration?

 

 

@shiaman14

Brother - as you can see, Caliph Umar rejected Imam Ali well before the narration of Caliph Uthman you quoted allegedly took place.

Giving credit to Caliph Uthman for compiling the Quran is just another Ummayad propaganda. Let's think about it. All Shias and Sunnis believe that the Prophet (saw) said, "I am leaving behind the Quran....". Secondly Caliph Umar rejects Imam Ali (as) Quran+Mushaf saying clearly that the one they have is sufficient.

So what exactly did Caliph Uthman do if the Prophet left a version behind and Caliph Umar acknowledges he has one?

Either the Muslims were using the wrong Quran between the demise of the Prophet and Caliph Uthman's compilation (hence the call to gather all the ayahs, etc)

OR

The early Muslims had the right Quran and Caliph Uthman compiled a different version which is in circulation today meaning 1.6 Muslims are following an incorrect Quran today (at least from what the Prophet left behind).

We just have to go a few layers deep for the Sunni propaganda machine to fail.

 

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On ‎05‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 6:04 PM, M.IB said:

It was a Mus'haf with interpretations of every ayah and surah,according to the right date of revelation cause Imam Ali was taught by Prophet Muhammad EVERY Surah,so it was better than Uthman's one ...

But where is it nowadays?

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11 minutes ago, Jimmy Boy said:

But where is it nowadays?

No one knows. 

It was not accepted by Sahabis for some reason.

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10 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

I see.I heard it is with the Imam. Might that be possible?

Well,the Quran has not been corrupted,,100 % pure,so I don't think it is necessary,since the Imam knows everything about the Quran,he can do Tafseer himself.And also date of revelation isn't necessary,it would be more nice but not really that important.

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2 hours ago, M.IB said:

Well,the Quran has not been corrupted,,100 % pure,so I don't think it is necessary,since the Imam knows everything about the Quran,he can do Tafseer himself.And also date of revelation isn't necessary,it would be more nice but not really that important.

Do you refer to the Quran of the Sunnis too,or to the one of Ali which was rejected?

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2 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

Do you refer to the Quran of the Sunnis too,or to the one of Ali which was rejected?

Both the Qurans are the same brother. They are 100 % pure without any edition. Except Hazrat Ali's knowledge is very vast (as my sunni brothers also know), so his tafseer/interpretation is going to be exceptionally different from ours. (in my opinion)

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10 hours ago, King-Ali said:

Both the Qurans are the same brother. They are 100 % pure without any edition. Except Hazrat Ali's knowledge is very vast (as my sunni brothers also know), so his tafseer/interpretation is going to be exceptionally different from ours. (in my opinion)

Many thanks! So,if I understand correctly,the only difference is the interpretation and the right order of verses/surahs. Anyway,I found a good video:

 

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11 hours ago, Jimmy Boy said:

Many thanks! So,if I understand correctly,the only difference is the interpretation and the right order of verses/surahs. 

About the order part, I don't know. I will look at the video later.

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@shiaman14 @Zavon @M.IB @Jimmy Boy @S.M.H.A.

 

                The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali (AS)

There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia,
concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a
special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and
he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions
from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet
(PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an
oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until
he collects together the Quran.

Sunni references:
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
  p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31


There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).


This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:

a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen
(33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the
companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not
passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in
our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."

Sunni References:
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32


It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the
first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was
Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).

Sunni References:
- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454

As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although
the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order
that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some
companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.

It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently
stated in his sermons: "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me
about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you
about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question
about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah,
for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was
sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain
or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319


b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down
as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran. A small amount of
such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi. These pieces of
information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were
revealed along with Quranic verses. Thus the commentary verses and Quranic
verses could sum up to 17000 verses. As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the
Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they
are not a part of Quran. In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet
said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4). The
direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.

In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy
Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which
verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse
was general and which was specific.

c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places
etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al-
Nuzul". Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he
frequently said: "By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing
about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has
gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a
tongue which speaks eloquently."

Sunni References:
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 67-68
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197


After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it
to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book
of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."
but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have
with us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript
back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported
that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:

     "And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to
     clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but
     they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some
     miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"
     (Quran 3:187)

By "its clarification", Imam Ali meant the unique divine commentaries.
The Commander of Believers then concealed that transcript, and after him it
was passed to the Imams who also kept it concealed. It remained concealed
with the Imams, one after the other to this day, because they wished to be
only one sequence of Quran among the Muslims. Because otherwise if people
have had two different sequences, it might later result to some alteration
in Quran by some sick-minded people. They wished people have strictly one
sequence of Quran. The Quran and its commentary which were collected by
Imam Ali (AS) is not available for any Shia in the world except to the Imam
Mahdi (AS). If the transcript of the Commander of Believers had been
accepted, that would have been the Quran with unique commentary in the hand
of people, but it turned out to be otherwise.

This gives the meaning of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi which say that no
one but the Commander of Believers and the later Imams had the Quran in the
order it was revealed, and that the Quran which they had contains "what can
be understood of the heaven, etc." and "the Knowledge of the Book, all of
it," because they were the commentaries and interpretations noted in the
transcript of Imam Ali directly from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF).  Allah, to
whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

     "And We have sent down on you a Book in which is the clarification of
     ALL the things." (Quran 16:89)

Sometimes the word "tahrif" is used in some traditions, and it must be made
clear that the meaning of this word is changing of something from its
proper place to another place, like changing the right position of
sentence, or giving it a meaning other than its true or intended meaning.
Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with addition or subtraction
from the text. It is thus with this meaning that the Quran states:

     "Some of the Jews distort (yuharrifuna) words from their meaning"
     (Quran 4:46).

This meaning of "tahrif", i.e., changing of meaning or changing the
context, as it appears in the Quran, has not only been applied in the
Muslim community to the verses of the Quran but also to the ahadith of the
Holy Prophet, even by rulers who have been prepared to use Islam to their
own personal advantage. It is this "tahrif", with this meaning, that the
Imams of Ahlul-Bayt have constantly sought to oppose. As one example, Imam
al-Baqir (AS) complained about the situation of the Muslims and their
corrupt rulers, and said:

     "One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah
     behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its
     words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu
     hududah). They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe
     (what) it (says). Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its
     narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to
     observe (what) it (says)."

Shi'i references:
- al-Kafi, v8, p53
- al-Wafi, v5, p274 and v14, p214

This use of "tahrif" is taken as a definition for the word wherever it
appears in the ahadith of the Imams, similar to what Quran (4:46) has
used.

It is necessary to emphasize here that all grand scholars of the Imami Shia
are in agreement that the Quran which is at present among the Muslims is
the very same Quran that was sent down to the Holy Prophet, and that it has
not been altered. Nothing has been added to it, and nothing is missing from
it. The Quran which was compiled by Imam Ali (excluding the commentaries)
and the Quran that is in the hand of people today, are identical in terms
of words and sentences.  No word, verse, chapter is missing. The only
difference is that the current Quran (collected by the companions) is not
in the order that was revealed.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the great Shia
scholar, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Babwayh, known as
"Shaikh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

     "Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
     Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
     And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
     greater in extent than that. The number of Surahs as generally
     accepted is one hundred and fourteen...And he who asserts that we say
     that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaikh
                 Saduq, English version, p77.

It should be noted that Shaikh Saduq (RA) was the greatest scholars of
Hadith among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaikh al-Muhaddithin
(i.e., the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the
above in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is
quite impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to
it. It is noteworthy that Shaikh Saduq lived at the time of minor
occultation of Imam Mahdi (AS) and he is one of the earliest Shia scholars.
He had the honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (AS).

For a more detailed discussion of completeness of Quran as well as the
opinion of the Shia, interested readers may look at "al-Bayan," by Abul
Qasim al-Khoei, pp 214-278.

Some ignorant opponents of the Shia mentioned that we apply al-Taqiyya
(dissimulation) and we do not release our actual belief on Quran. These
people never tried to understand that Taqiyya is for the time when my life
or the life of the other fellow is in danger. There is no need to conceal
my belief here since I am not under prosecution. The above article is
witness to what I say. Taqiyya is not a good excuse for these people in
front of Allah to disregard what Shia present. They have liberty to check
the traditions which we have mentioned in different articles, or they can
else ask their "honest" scholars to do that.

And the truth is the best to be followed...

Wassalam.

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1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

@shiaman14 @Zavon @M.IB @Jimmy Boy @S.M.H.A.

 


                The Quran Compiled by Imam Ali (AS)

There is no dispute among Muslim scholars, whether they are Sunni or Shia,
concerning the fact that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS), possessed a
special transcript of the text of Quran which he had collected himself, and
he was THE FIRST who compiled Quran. There are a great number of traditions
from Sunni and Shia which states that after the death of the Holy Prophet
(PBUH&HF), Imam Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an
oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until
he collects together the Quran.

Sunni references:
- Fat'hul Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10,
  p386
- al-fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, p30
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p165
- al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawud, p10
- Hilyatul awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, v1, p67
- al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, p79
- 'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, v20, p16
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, pp 112-113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p31


There are also traditions from the Imams of Ahlul Bayt which tell us that
this was done by Imam Ali by order of the Holy Prophet (See al-Bihar, v92,
pp 40-41,48,51-52).


This transcript of Quran which compiled by Imam Ali (AS) had the following
unique specifications:

a) It was collected according to its revelation, i.e., in the order in
which it had been sent down. This is the reason that Muhammad Ibn Sireen
(33/653 - 110/729), the famous scholar and Tabi'i (disciples of the
companions of the Holy Prophet), regretted that this transcript had not
passed into the hands of the Muslims, and said: "If that transcript were in
our hands, we would found a great knowledge in it."

Sunni References:
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Ansab al-ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, p587
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, pp 973-974
- Sharh Ibn Abi al-Hadid, v6, pp 40-41
- al-Tas'hil, by Ibn Juzzi al-Kalbi, v1, p4
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p166
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197
- Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, v1, p32


It is according to this transcript that Sunni scholars relate that the
first Chapter of Quran which was sent down to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was
Chapter al-Iqra (al-Alaq, Ch. 96).

Sunni References:
- al-Burhan, by al-Zarkashi, v1, p259
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v1, p202
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v10, p417
- Irshad al-sari, by al-Qastalani, v7, p454

As you know the Chapter al-Alaq is not at the beginning of the present
Quran. Also Muslims agree that the verse (5:3) was among one of the
last revealed verses of Quran (but not the very last one), yet it is not
toward the end of the present Quran. This clearly proves that although
the Quran that we have available is complete, it is not in the order
that has been revealed. These few misplacements were done by some
companions on purpose at worst, or out of ignorance at least.

It was for this reason that the Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) frequently
stated in his sermons: "Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me
about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgment, I will tell you
about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question
about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah,
for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was
sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain
or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
- al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, v2, p198
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
- Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338
- Fathul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
- al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107
- Tarikh al-Khulafa, by al-Suyuti, p124
- al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319


b) This transcript contained commentary and hermeneutic interpretation
(Tafsir and Ta'wil) from the Holy Prophet some of which had been sent down
as revelation but NOT as a part of the text of Quran. A small amount of
such texts can be found in some traditions in Usul al-Kafi. These pieces of
information were the Divine commentary of the text of Quran which were
revealed along with Quranic verses. Thus the commentary verses and Quranic
verses could sum up to 17000 verses. As Sunnis know, Hadith al-Qudsi (the
Hadith in which the speaker is Allah) is also direct revelation, but they
are not a part of Quran. In fact Quran testifies that anything that Prophet
said was (either direct or indirect) revelation (See Quran 53:3-4). The
direct revelation includes the interpretation/commentary of the Quran.

In addition, this unique transcript contained the information from the Holy
Prophet about which verse was abrogated and which was abrogating, which
verse was clear (Muhkam) and which was ambiguous (Mutashabih), which verse
was general and which was specific.

c) This unique transcript also contained references to the persons, places
etc., about which the verses were revealed, what is called "Asbab al-
Nuzul". Since the Commander of Believers was aware of these facts, he
frequently said: "By Allah, no verse has been sent down without my knowing
about whom or what it was revealed and where it was revealed. My Lord has
gifted me with a mind which has a quick and retaining understanding, and a
tongue which speaks eloquently."

Sunni References:
- Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v1, pp 67-68
- at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, part 2, p101
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v15, p113
- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 9, Section 4, p197


After he compiled this transcript, Imam Ali (AS) took it and presented it
to the rulers who came after the Holy Prophet, and said: "Here is the book
of Allah, your Lord, in the order that was revealed to your Prophet."
but they did not accept it and replied: "We have no need of this. We have
with us what you possess." Thereupon, Imam Ali (AS) took the transcript
back and informed them that they will never see it again. It is reported
that Imam Ali recited the latter part of the following verse of Quran:

     "And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to
     clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but
     they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some
     miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"
     (Quran 3:187)

By "its clarification", Imam Ali meant the unique divine commentaries.
The Commander of Believers then concealed that transcript, and after him it
was passed to the Imams who also kept it concealed. It remained concealed
with the Imams, one after the other to this day, because they wished to be
only one sequence of Quran among the Muslims. Because otherwise if people
have had two different sequences, it might later result to some alteration
in Quran by some sick-minded people. They wished people have strictly one
sequence of Quran. The Quran and its commentary which were collected by
Imam Ali (AS) is not available for any Shia in the world except to the Imam
Mahdi (AS). If the transcript of the Commander of Believers had been
accepted, that would have been the Quran with unique commentary in the hand
of people, but it turned out to be otherwise.

This gives the meaning of the traditions in Usul al-Kafi which say that no
one but the Commander of Believers and the later Imams had the Quran in the
order it was revealed, and that the Quran which they had contains "what can
be understood of the heaven, etc." and "the Knowledge of the Book, all of
it," because they were the commentaries and interpretations noted in the
transcript of Imam Ali directly from the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF).  Allah, to
whom belong Might and Majesty, said:

     "And We have sent down on you a Book in which is the clarification of
     ALL the things." (Quran 16:89)

Sometimes the word "tahrif" is used in some traditions, and it must be made
clear that the meaning of this word is changing of something from its
proper place to another place, like changing the right position of
sentence, or giving it a meaning other than its true or intended meaning.
Therefore, it has absolutely nothing to do with addition or subtraction
from the text. It is thus with this meaning that the Quran states:

     "Some of the Jews distort (yuharrifuna) words from their meaning"
     (Quran 4:46).

This meaning of "tahrif", i.e., changing of meaning or changing the
context, as it appears in the Quran, has not only been applied in the
Muslim community to the verses of the Quran but also to the ahadith of the
Holy Prophet, even by rulers who have been prepared to use Islam to their
own personal advantage. It is this "tahrif", with this meaning, that the
Imams of Ahlul-Bayt have constantly sought to oppose. As one example, Imam
al-Baqir (AS) complained about the situation of the Muslims and their
corrupt rulers, and said:

     "One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah
     behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its
     words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu
     hududah). They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe
     (what) it (says). Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its
     narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to
     observe (what) it (says)."

Shi'i references:
- al-Kafi, v8, p53
- al-Wafi, v5, p274 and v14, p214

This use of "tahrif" is taken as a definition for the word wherever it
appears in the ahadith of the Imams, similar to what Quran (4:46) has
used.

It is necessary to emphasize here that all grand scholars of the Imami Shia
are in agreement that the Quran which is at present among the Muslims is
the very same Quran that was sent down to the Holy Prophet, and that it has
not been altered. Nothing has been added to it, and nothing is missing from
it. The Quran which was compiled by Imam Ali (excluding the commentaries)
and the Quran that is in the hand of people today, are identical in terms
of words and sentences.  No word, verse, chapter is missing. The only
difference is that the current Quran (collected by the companions) is not
in the order that was revealed.

The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the great Shia
scholar, Abu Ja'far Muhammad Ibn Ali Ibn al-Husain Ibn Babwayh, known as
"Shaikh Saduq" (309/919-381/991), wrote:

     "Our belief is that the Quran which Allah revealed to His Prophet
     Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn).
     And it is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not
     greater in extent than that. The number of Surahs as generally
     accepted is one hundred and fourteen...And he who asserts that we say
     that it is greater in extent than that, is a liar."

Shi'i reference: Shi'ite Creed (al-I'tiqadat al-Imamiyyah), by Shaikh
                 Saduq, English version, p77.

It should be noted that Shaikh Saduq (RA) was the greatest scholars of
Hadith among the Imami Shia and was given the name of Shaikh al-Muhaddithin
(i.e., the most eminent of the scholars of Hadith). And since he wrote the
above in a book with the name of "The beliefs of the Imami Shia," it is
quite impossible that there could be any authentic Hadith in contrary to
it. It is noteworthy that Shaikh Saduq lived at the time of minor
occultation of Imam Mahdi (AS) and he is one of the earliest Shia scholars.
He had the honor that he was born with the prayer of Imam Mahdi (AS).

For a more detailed discussion of completeness of Quran as well as the
opinion of the Shia, interested readers may look at "al-Bayan," by Abul
Qasim al-Khoei, pp 214-278.

Some ignorant opponents of the Shia mentioned that we apply al-Taqiyya
(dissimulation) and we do not release our actual belief on Quran. These
people never tried to understand that Taqiyya is for the time when my life
or the life of the other fellow is in danger. There is no need to conceal
my belief here since I am not under prosecution. The above article is
witness to what I say. Taqiyya is not a good excuse for these people in
front of Allah to disregard what Shia present. They have liberty to check
the traditions which we have mentioned in different articles, or they can
else ask their "honest" scholars to do that.

And the truth is the best to be followed...

Wassalam.

Wow! One of the most learned and informative posts I've ever read! Thank you!

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9 hours ago, Zavon said:

@shiaman14 @S.M.H.A. @notme @M.IB 

Assalamu'Alaikum.

According to sunni belief, where is Ali's (a.s.) Quran?

Sorry brother, I read your question as "according to sunni belief, where is Ali (as) IN the Quran?"

Brother @Ron_Burgundy posted an absolutely fantastic reply. 

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5 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Sorry brother, I read your question as "according to sunni belief, where is Ali (as) IN the Quran?"

"In many traditions from Ibne Mahyar and others, Imam Sadiq and Imam Ridha (a.s.) are reported to have said, while explaining the verse that it implies that the Quran in the protected tablet is with Us. It is protected from any changes or alterations and it is the highest in rank among all Divine scriptures and it is full of wisdom, that is, it contains many words of wisdom or it is Mohkam (clear) and it is not cancelled or amended but by itself.

These gentleman have said that it means that Ali (a.s.) is mentioned in Surah Fatiha which is Ummul-Kitab (Mother of the Book) who is both wise and intelligent. And it depends upon the fact that Imam Ali (a.s.) is the straight path in the path of guardianship and following. Hence it is said that when people asked Imam Ridha (a.s.) as to where Imam Ali Ibne Abi Talib has been mentioned in Ummul-Kitab. He replied: in “Guide us” because Ali (a.s.) is the Sirate Mustaqeem and it is mentioned in the prayer of the day of Ghadeer that: I give witness that Ali (a.s.) is the guiding Imam and that he is the Master of the Believers whose mention has been made by Allah in His book, saying:

وَإِنَّهُ فِي أُمِّ الْكِتَابِ لَدَيْنَا لَعَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ.

And surely it is in the original of the Book with Us, truly elevated, full of wisdom. (Sura Zukhruf 43:4)"

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-4-signs-and-proofs-are-holy-imams

 

"There is an authentic tradition in Maniul Akhbar that Imam Sadiq (a.s.) was asked by some people about ‘Sirat’. He replied that it is the way of Allah and His Ma’refat (recognition) and there are two ‘Sirats’—‘Sirat’ of this world and the ‘Sirat’ of the hereafter. The Imam is Sirat of this world is that whose following is incumbent, for one who recognizes him and follows his guidance. Then he will pass over this Sirat in the Hereafter which is bridge over Hell, and one who does not recognize him in the world, his foot would stumble and he would fall into Hell fire.

Also according to a good chain of narrators Imam Sadiq (a.s.) said in the explanation of this verse:

اهْدِنَا الصِّرَاطَ الْمُسْتَقِيمَ.

Keep us on the right path. (Surah Fatiha 1:5)

That ‘the Right Path’ is Ali (a.s.) and the proof of his recognition is that the Almighty Allah says:

وَإِنَّهُ فِي أُمِّ الْكِتَابِ لَدَيْنَا لَعَلِيٌّ حَكِيمٌ.

And surely it is in the original of the Book with Us, truly elevated, full of wisdom. (Surah Zukhruf 43:4)

That Ali (a.s.) is the ‘original of the book’ (mother of the book), which is the chapter of ‘The Opening’ (Al-Hamd) whose verse: Keep us on the right path… mentions him and ‘Siratul Mustaqeem’ is Ali. He is the knower of the laws and the learned one of divine realities.

The commentators have referred the pronoun to Quran and considered ‘original of the book’ (Ummul Kitab) to be the Protected Tablet (Lauhe Mahfuz), which is with us, which has a esteemed position and stability, or which is to show the wisdom. On the basis of this whatever we have derived earlier that Ali (a.s.) is the ‘speaking book of Allah’ can be matched with the apparent meaning of the verse also.

Also it is narrated from Imam Zainul Aabedeen (a.s.) that the Imam of the time is between Allah and his hujjat (proof), there is no veil or curtain between them. We are doors of divine knowledge, and we are the Straight Path and we are the treasure chest of the Allah’s knowledge and we the informants of divine revelation and we are the pillars of the oneness of Allah (monotheism) and we are the repositories of divine secrets."

https://www.al-islam.org/hayat-al-qulub-vol3-allamah-muhammad-baqir-al-majlisi/part-14-traditions-interpret-words-sirat-sabil

 

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