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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Salafis think we can see Allah's face...

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Reading books is of no use when there is no basic understanding of fundamental concepts. Neither when one is not able to distinguish its diffirences.

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11 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Reading books is of no use when there is no basic understanding of fundamental concepts. Neither when one is not able to distinguish its diffirences.

Whom should I read. 

Are not above mentioned personality leading Mujtahids and scholar of shia. 

Is not MOHHAMAD Hussain Tabatbaie same who wrote Al Mizaan thnumber one commentary on quran. 

 

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But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." (Exodus 33:20)

This is bible.

Being shia muslims, we know Ahlul Bayt (a.s) are "wajhullah" (face of Allah). 

What actually we can see with the eyes of our heart & soul? Zaat or Wajood of Allah or "tajalli" of His Wajood? 

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34 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." (Exodus 33:20)

This is bible.

Being shia muslims, we know Ahlul Bayt (a.s) are "wajhullah" (face of Allah). 

What actually we can see with the eyes of our heart & soul? Zaat or Wajood of Allah or "tajalli" of His Wajood? 

According to them and others it depend how much one is freed his heart from everything other than Allah 

There heart first sees actions of Allah. Then with further purification of heart from shrik they see attributes of Allah. Latter with further purification they see names off Allah. Then essence. 

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39 minutes ago, Faruk said:

I wonder if you really read these books yourself and not took a list from some anti-shia site from people who did the readingwork for you.

It seems you want to bring shia's in line with the salafi belief and use that list of scholars as a tool claiming you're a shia yourself.

 

Mr.you are free to disagree. In addition you can read it yourself. And I have listened the commentary on it. 

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41 minutes ago, Faruk said:

I wonder if you really read these books yourself and not took a list from some anti-shia site from people who did the readingwork for you.

It seems you want to bring shia's in line with the salafi belief and use that list of scholars as a tool claiming you're a shia yourself.

 

What ever they said is based on quran and traditions of Ahlebayt as. 

And you yourself can walk on path of slef purification from all sins and shrik  .Till your heart too witness devine attributes and beauty. 

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14 minutes ago, islam25 said:

What ever they said is based on quran and traditions of Ahlebayt as. 

And you yourself can walk on path of slef purification from all sins and shrik  .Till your heart too witness devine attributes and beauty. 

Self purification is one of the main goals of every muslim.

Edited by Faruk

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22 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.you are free to disagree. In addition you can read it yourself. And I have listened the commentary on it. 

I disagree with your belief that the salafi view is the same as the shia view. I still wonder if you are aware of the diffirence in interpretation and meaning.

 

Edited by Faruk

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

There heart first sees actions of Allah. Then with further purification of heart from shrik they see attributes of Allah. Latter with further purification they see names off Allah. Then essence. 

Lets see a verse of Quran first:

وَلَمَّا جَاءَ مُوسَىٰ لِمِيقَاتِنَا وَكَلَّمَهُ رَبُّهُ قَالَ رَبِّ أَرِنِي أَنْظُرْ إِلَيْكَ ۚ قَالَ لَنْ تَرَانِي

Shakir 7:143] And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me

What do you think about this verse? What Prophet Musa (a.s), a chosen one of Allah, was asking here? Why Allah told him that he cannot (bear to) see Allah?

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@Faruk @Salsabeel @islam25 @Dhulfikar 

Seeing Allah (Ru’yat Allah)

The Shi‘a school of thought absolutely denies what others say that Allah can be seen since He has no image or body. However, other schools of thought accept several hadiths that not only claim that Allah has physical parts; but also that He will be seen on the Day of Judgment like any other objects are seen. They also claim that Allah occupies space and travels from one place to another. The basis for these arguments are hadiths and not the Noble Qur’an. We mention some of these narrations:

Our Lord, before creating His creation, did not have anything with Him, underneath Him was air, above Him was air, then he created His throne on water.1

(On the Day of Judgment) It will be said to Hell, ‘Are you filled up?’ It will say, ‘Are there any more?’ So the Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He will put His leg into it, whereupon it will say, ‘Now I am full!’2

We were sitting with the Messenger of Allah when he looked at the full moon and observed, ‘You shall see your Lord as you are seeing this moon, and you will not be harmed by seeing Him.’3

The last narration, in particular, asserts that people will see Allah with their physical eyes, regardless of whether they are among the good or among the hypocrites. Seeing Allah means that Allah must have a physical body and occupy physical space. Imam Malik ibn Anas and Imam al-Shafi΄i accept this opinion, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal considers this belief among the fundamentals of the religion.

The opinion of the followers of the Ahlul Bayt is that seeing Allah is impossible. This view is supported by the Noble Qur’an and logic. The Noble Qur’an says clearly, “No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision.”4 Furthermore, there are multiple examples of people asking to see Allah and the response of Allah, the Exalted was:

And remember when you said, ‘O people of Musa, We shall never believe in you until we see Allah plainly.’ But you were seized with a thunderbolt while you were looking. Then We raised you up after death so that you might be grateful.5

The People of the Scripture ask you (O Muhammad) to cause a book to descend upon them from Heaven. Indeed, they asked Musa for even greater than that when they said, ‘Show us Allah in public,’ but they were struck with thunder and lightening for their wickedness. 6

And those who expect not a meeting with Us say, ‘Why are not the angels sent down to us?’ or ‘Why do we not see our Lord?’ Indeed, they think too highly of themselves and are scornful with great pride.7

When Musa came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, he said, ‘O Lord! Show Yourself to me so that I may look upon You.’ Allah said, ‘By no means can you see Me, but look at the mountain—if it abides in its place then you shall see Me.’ When his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain, He made it like dust, and Musa fell in a swoon. When he recovered his senses, he said, ‘Glory be to You. To You do I turn in repentance and I am the first to believe.’8

If seeing Allah was impossible for the prophets and the messengers of Allah then it is clearly impossible for all other people as well; whether during this life or in the Hereafter.

Logically speaking, in order to see an object, the object must have several qualities. First, it must have a specific direction, such as in front of or to the left or right of the observer. Second, a distance must exist between the one seeing and the thing being seen. Seeing would be impossible if the distance became longer or shorter. Allah the Almighty is not a physical object that we can pin-point and ultimately see, nor does He occupy space.

Although the Noble Qur’an says, “He is the Supreme, watching over His worshippers,”9 and “They revere their Lord high above them”10—“above them”—refers to the Almighty being above His servants in His might, power, and loftiness - not in place, space, area, elevation, or physical location. Such qualities do not apply to Him.

During his ascension to Heaven, the Prophet called upon his Lord by the words, “You are as You have praised Your Own Self.” While Prophet Yunus called upon his Lord from the bottom of the sea saying, “There is no God but You! Glory be to You!”11

Regarding Prophet Yunus, the Prophet Muhammad said, “Do not exalt me over him in nearness to Allah just because I reached the high throne, whereas he was in the bottom of the sea, because the adored One is above being confined to a space or direction.”

Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”12 There are many things which people cannot reach and have no physical access to but which people still believe in. Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, the sixth Imam, was once asked, “will Allah be seen on the Day of Resurrection?” His answer was, “May He be exalted and glorified from that! The eyes can only reach an object which has color and shape, but Allah, the Exalted, is the Creator of colors and shapes.”

Similar aspects of Allah, such as His “hand” or His “face” are referred to as allegorically. The “Hand of Allah” refers to His power and might, and “His Face” refers to different things. The first step in the Oneness and Monotheism of Allah is the understanding that Allah is not a body and will never be seen and that He is unique, as the Noble Qur’an states, “There is nothing like Him.”13

  • 1. Sunan ibn Majah, “Introduction”; Sunan al-Tirmidhi, “Explanations of Surah Hud”; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Vol. 4, 11-12
  • 2. Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, 128, Vol. 4, 191, Vol. 4, 129 of Anas. Some narrations say: “foot” instead of “leg.”
  • 3. Sahih al-Bukhari, “Book on the Times of Prayers” Hadith 521 and 539, Vol. 10. 18 and 20, “Interpretation of the Noble Qur’an,” Hadith 4473, “Monotheism” Hadith 6882-6884; Sahih Muslim, “Book on masjids and Places of Performing Prayers” Hadith 1002; Tirmidhi, “Book on the Description of Paradise” Hadith 2474; Abu Dawud, Book on the Sunnah, Hadith 4104; Ibn Majah, “Book on the Introduction” Hadith 173; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 4. 360, 362, and 365
  • 4. Noble Qur’an, 6:102
  • 5. Noble Qur’an, 2:55
  • 6. Noble Qur’an, 4:53
  • 7. Noble Qur’an, 25:21
  • 8. Noble Qur’an, 7:143
  • 9. Noble Qur’an, 6:61
  • 10. Noble Qur’an, 16:50
  • 11. Noble Qur’an, 21:87
  • 12. Nahj al-Balagha
  • 13. Noble Qur’an, 42:11

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So have they not traveled through the earth and have hearts by which to reason and ears by which to hear? For indeed, it is not eyes that are blinded, but blinded are the hearts which are within the breasts. Quran 22:46

Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”

Both, the aya and the hadith show us that it's a figure of speech and nothing more than that.

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36 minutes ago, Faruk said:

I disagree with your belief that the salafi view is the same as the shia view. I still wonder if you are aware of the diffirence in interpretation and meaning.

 

Mr.

It is not my belief. It is belief of our scholars especially those who could purify themselves from shrik. 

Also what they have said is based on teaching of quran and Ahlebayt as.

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1 hour ago, Faruk said:

Both, the aya and the hadith show us that it's a figure of speech and nothing more than that.

A paragraph from MOHHAMAD Hussain. 

But gradually under the effect of the preliminary ‑degrees of muraqabah and gathering strength in wayfaring, he is enabled to carry out the high degrees ofmuraqabah in the later stages. In these stages, many of the things which were permissible and lawful for him in the early stages become unlawful and forbidden.

Under the effect of intense muraqabah and careful exercise of it the signs of love appear in the consciousness of the wayfarer, because the love of perfect beauty and perfection is innate in man(fitri) and incorporated in his make‑up and engraved in his being. However, attachment to multiplicity and love of material things become veils blocking this innate love which do not allow this eternal light to shine through.

Gradually, through muraqabah the veils become flimsy until ultimately they disappear altogether and that innate love manifests itself in one's consciousness, drawing it towards the Source of beauty and perfection. This muraqabah is referred to as ‘may' or ‘wine' in the terminology of the gnostics:

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Mr.

It is not my belief. It is belief of our scholars especially those who could purify themselves from shrik. 

Also what they have said is based on teaching of quran and Ahlebayt as.

As long you are not able to distinguish or recognize the diffirence between the antropomorphic/literal/physical view and the non-antropomorphic/figurative/spiritual view of 'seeing Allah' there is no reason for me to continue this discussion.

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1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

@Faruk @Salsabeel @islam25 @Dhulfikar 

Seeing Allah (Ru’yat Allah)

The Shi‘a school of thought absolutely denies what others say that Allah can be seen since He has no image or body. However, other schools of thought accept several hadiths that not only claim that Allah has physical parts; but also that He will be seen on the Day of Judgment like any other objects are seen. They also claim that Allah occupies space and travels from one place to another. The basis for these arguments are hadiths and not the Noble Qur’an. We mention some of these narrations:

Our Lord, before creating His creation, did not have anything with Him, underneath Him was air, above Him was air, then he created His throne on water.1

(On the Day of Judgment) It will be said to Hell, ‘Are you filled up?’ It will say, ‘Are there any more?’ So the Lord, Blessed and Exalted is He will put His leg into it, whereupon it will say, ‘Now I am full!’2

We were sitting with the Messenger of Allah when he looked at the full moon and observed, ‘You shall see your Lord as you are seeing this moon, and you will not be harmed by seeing Him.’3

The last narration, in particular, asserts that people will see Allah with their physical eyes, regardless of whether they are among the good or among the hypocrites. Seeing Allah means that Allah must have a physical body and occupy physical space. Imam Malik ibn Anas and Imam al-Shafi΄i accept this opinion, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal considers this belief among the fundamentals of the religion.

The opinion of the followers of the Ahlul Bayt is that seeing Allah is impossible. This view is supported by the Noble Qur’an and logic. The Noble Qur’an says clearly, “No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision.”4 Furthermore, there are multiple examples of people asking to see Allah and the response of Allah, the Exalted was:

And remember when you said, ‘O people of Musa, We shall never believe in you until we see Allah plainly.’ But you were seized with a thunderbolt while you were looking. Then We raised you up after death so that you might be grateful.5

The People of the Scripture ask you (O Muhammad) to cause a book to descend upon them from Heaven. Indeed, they asked Musa for even greater than that when they said, ‘Show us Allah in public,’ but they were struck with thunder and lightening for their wickedness. 6

And those who expect not a meeting with Us say, ‘Why are not the angels sent down to us?’ or ‘Why do we not see our Lord?’ Indeed, they think too highly of themselves and are scornful with great pride.7

When Musa came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, he said, ‘O Lord! Show Yourself to me so that I may look upon You.’ Allah said, ‘By no means can you see Me, but look at the mountain—if it abides in its place then you shall see Me.’ When his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain, He made it like dust, and Musa fell in a swoon. When he recovered his senses, he said, ‘Glory be to You. To You do I turn in repentance and I am the first to believe.’8

If seeing Allah was impossible for the prophets and the messengers of Allah then it is clearly impossible for all other people as well; whether during this life or in the Hereafter.

Logically speaking, in order to see an object, the object must have several qualities. First, it must have a specific direction, such as in front of or to the left or right of the observer. Second, a distance must exist between the one seeing and the thing being seen. Seeing would be impossible if the distance became longer or shorter. Allah the Almighty is not a physical object that we can pin-point and ultimately see, nor does He occupy space.

Although the Noble Qur’an says, “He is the Supreme, watching over His worshippers,”9 and “They revere their Lord high above them”10—“above them”—refers to the Almighty being above His servants in His might, power, and loftiness - not in place, space, area, elevation, or physical location. Such qualities do not apply to Him.

During his ascension to Heaven, the Prophet called upon his Lord by the words, “You are as You have praised Your Own Self.” While Prophet Yunus called upon his Lord from the bottom of the sea saying, “There is no God but You! Glory be to You!”11

Regarding Prophet Yunus, the Prophet Muhammad said, “Do not exalt me over him in nearness to Allah just because I reached the high throne, whereas he was in the bottom of the sea, because the adored One is above being confined to a space or direction.”

Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”12 There are many things which people cannot reach and have no physical access to but which people still believe in. Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq, the sixth Imam, was once asked, “will Allah be seen on the Day of Resurrection?” His answer was, “May He be exalted and glorified from that! The eyes can only reach an object which has color and shape, but Allah, the Exalted, is the Creator of colors and shapes.”

Similar aspects of Allah, such as His “hand” or His “face” are referred to as allegorically. The “Hand of Allah” refers to His power and might, and “His Face” refers to different things. The first step in the Oneness and Monotheism of Allah is the understanding that Allah is not a body and will never be seen and that He is unique, as the Noble Qur’an states, “There is nothing like Him.”13

  • 1. Sunan ibn Majah, “Introduction”; Sunan al-Tirmidhi, “Explanations of Surah Hud”; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Vol. 4, 11-12
  • 2. Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 3, 128, Vol. 4, 191, Vol. 4, 129 of Anas. Some narrations say: “foot” instead of “leg.”
  • 3. Sahih al-Bukhari, “Book on the Times of Prayers” Hadith 521 and 539, Vol. 10. 18 and 20, “Interpretation of the Noble Qur’an,” Hadith 4473, “Monotheism” Hadith 6882-6884; Sahih Muslim, “Book on masjids and Places of Performing Prayers” Hadith 1002; Tirmidhi, “Book on the Description of Paradise” Hadith 2474; Abu Dawud, Book on the Sunnah, Hadith 4104; Ibn Majah, “Book on the Introduction” Hadith 173; Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Vol. 4. 360, 362, and 365
  • 4. Noble Qur’an, 6:102
  • 5. Noble Qur’an, 2:55
  • 6. Noble Qur’an, 4:53
  • 7. Noble Qur’an, 25:21
  • 8. Noble Qur’an, 7:143
  • 9. Noble Qur’an, 6:61
  • 10. Noble Qur’an, 16:50
  • 11. Noble Qur’an, 21:87
  • 12. Nahj al-Balagha
  • 13. Noble Qur’an, 42:11

What you have posted proves that Allah can be seen with vision of heart. That is what some grate scholars say who purified their heart by doing MURRAQABA so that their heart witnessed devine attributes and beauty of Allah. 

Just read following paragraph from Allama MOHHAMAD Hussain Tabatbaie. 

one of the essentials of wayfaring andsuluk is muraqabah, contemplative self‑vigilance.

From the first step that he takes on the Path until the last step, the wayfarer should not be devoid of muraqabah. This is one of the definite principles of wayfaring. It should be known that muraqabah consists of various degrees and levels. During the first stages the wayfarer has one kind ofmuraqabah while his muraqabah at the other stages is of another kind.

The further he advances towards perfection and traverses the stages and phases, hismuraqabah becomes more precise and profound, so that if those degrees ofmuraqabah were to be imposed on a wayfarer in the initial stages, he would not be able to bear them and would abandon wayfaring all together, or he would be consumed or perish.

But gradually under the effect of the preliminary ‑degrees of muraqabah and gathering strength in wayfaring, he is enabled to carry out the high degrees ofmuraqabah in the later stages. In these stages, many of the things which were permissible and lawful for him in the early stages become unlawful and forbidden.

Under the effect of intense muraqabah and careful exercise of it the signs of love appear in the consciousness of the wayfarer, because the love of perfect beauty and perfection is innate in man(fitri) and incorporated in his make‑up and engraved in his being. However, attachment to multiplicity and love of material things become veils blocking this innate love which do not allow this eternal light to shine through.

Gradually, through muraqabah the veils become flimsy until ultimately they disappear altogether and that innate love manifests itself in one's consciousness, drawing it towards the Source of beauty and perfection. This muraqabah is referred to as ‘may' or ‘wine' in the terminology of the gnostics:

به‌ پير ميكده‌ گفتم‌ كه‌ چيست‌ راه‌ نجات‌

بخواست‌ جام‌ ((مي‌)) وگفت‌ راز پوشيدن‌

I asked the old man of the tavern, What's the way to salvation,
He called for a cup of wine and said, Secrets are to be kept secret!

راه‌ خلوتگه‌ خاصم‌ بنما تا پس‌ از اين‌

((مي‌)) خورم‌ با تو و ديگر غم‌ دنيا نخورم‌

Lead me into my solitary privacy, that,
Thereafter, I with Thee may drink sweet wine,
And think no more of the world's bitter woes.

When the wayfarer carefully maintains hismuraqabah, God, the Exalted, out of His love and grace, makes certain lights shine upon him as the first glimmers. At the beginning, these lights appear like flashes of lightning and they disappear as suddenly as they shine. But these lights gradually become stronger, like a small star that grows in brilliance and then begins to shine like a moon and then like a sun, and, at times, appears like a candle or lantern. These lights are called ‘the gnostic sleep'(nawm‑e'irfani) in the jargon of the gnostic. These lights belong to the class of entities of the realm of Barzakh.

But when these phases of the wayfarermuraqabah become more intense and he observes it with precision, these lights become stronger and the wayfarer sees the whole heaven and earth, the east and the west, as one expanse of light. This light is the light of the spirit, which appears while passing through the world of Barzakh.

But in the first stages of passing, when the revelatory lights of the soul (tajalliyat al-nafs) are about to begin to shine, the wayfarer sees his soul in a material form. In other words, he might see himself standing before himself. This is the beginning stage of the immateriality of the soul (tajarrud al-nafs).

At times, the wayfarer finds that he has lost himself and however he may seek he does not find himself. It was mentioned that these experiences occur in the preliminary stages of the immateriality of the soul and are bound to space and time. But later on, with the help of God, the wayfarer can witness the entire reality of his, soul in its total immateriality.

An episode is related about marhum Hajj Mirza Jawad Aqa Maliki Tabrizi‑may God be pleased with him‑who for fourteen years was the pupil and disciple of the master of gnosis and tawhid, marham Akhund Mawla Husaynquli Hamadani‑may God be pleased with him.

He used to say, "One day the Master said to me, ‘The task of training so ­and‑so'‑a disciple of his-is up to you: This disciple had a lot of courage and a firm determination. He carried out austerities and muraqabah for six years until he reached a station of pure receptivity for the perception of the soul's immateriality. I wanted that this wayfarer of the way of felicity to receive this grace of at the hands of the Master and to be dressed by him in this divine garb. 

It should be known that the observation of the beings of Barzakh is not much of an excellence, rather excellence lies in experiencing the soul in its complete and perfect immateriality. Since the soul, at this point, appears in its total immaterial reality, it is seen as a being unlimited by time and space, or, rather, as encompassing the world's east and west, and, contrary to the experience of the preliminary stages of multiplicity, this observation is of the kind of cognition of universals.

On crossing this stage, as a result of observing the muraqabah in a manner commensurate with those higher realms and the requirements of those stages and stations, the felicitous wayfarer succeeds in observing the Attributes of God, the Exalted, or the Attributes of His Holy Essence in the mode of universality.

At this stage, it may happen that the wayfarer suddenly observes all the world's existents as constituting a single act of knowledge, or he may find that there is no power except a single power. This is at the stage of witnessing (shuhad) the Attributes. But in the stage of witnessing (shuhud) the Names, which is still a higher one, the wayfarer observes that in all the worlds there is but one knower, and one powerful being, and one living being. And this phase of the stage of perception of Attributes, which appears at the plane of the heart, is nobler and more perfect:

لِانَّ السَّالِكَ يُصْبِحُ وَلَا يَرَى قادِراً وَلَا عالِمًا وَلَا حَيًاً سِوَى اللهِ تَعالَى

Because the wayfarer reaches a point where he does not see any power, knowledge, and life except those of God, the Exalted.

 

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1 minute ago, islam25 said:

What you have posted proves that Allah can be seen with vision of heart. That is what some grate scholars say who purified their heart by doing MURRAQABA so that their heart witnessed devine attributes and beauty of Allah. 

Yes, as mentioned about

Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”

Allah has no face, hands, legs etc. etc. so you can't physically see him. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Faruk said:

As long you are not able to distinguish or recognize the diffirence between the antropomorphic/literal/physical view and the non-antropomorphic/figurative/spiritual view of 'seeing Allah' there is no reason for me to continue this discussion.

Mr. I told you that it is not only verbal statement rather practical witnessing of Attributes and names of Allah by those who succeeded in purifying heart from all sorts of shrik and sins. So that their loves non but Allah fears non but Allah. Then these pure hearts see devine attributes and beauty. So you are free disagree them.

But they still invite you to follow the path of slef purification and witnesses higher metaphysical relms. That too all based on teaching of quran and Ahlebayt as. 

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6 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Yes, as mentioned about

Imam ‘Ali was asked by one of his companions, Tha΄lab al-Yamani whether he had seen his Lord. Imam ‘Ali replied, “How can I worship something that I do not see?” When asked how he saw Him, Imam ‘Ali replied, “Eyes do not reach Him with physical sight, but the hearts reach Him with the realities of belief.”

Allah has no face, hands, legs etc. etc. so you can't physically see him. 

 

I never said Allah has legs or hands. 

Rather I said that all those who have succeeded in slef purification from all sorts of shrik has seen devine attributes and beauty and grandeur. And it's universal that non can convert that vision in the language this world. Rather words of this world can not convey the message. 

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21 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I never said Allah has legs or hands. 

Rather I said that all those who have succeeded in slef purification from all sorts of shrik has seen devine attributes and beauty and grandeur. And it's universal that non can convert that vision in the language this world. Rather words of this world can not convey the message. 

you mean beauty and grandeur through his creation? 

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5 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

you mean beauty and grandeur through his creation? 

They say it's within their soul they see the Attributes of Allah and beauty and grandeur not with eyes. How their soul sees Allah knows best. But yes this path of self purification is free to everyone and it's this for which all Ambias as and books of Allah were send. Unfortunately our love for world and slef love and forgetting Allah makes heart blind to see Truth. 

You have to work sincerely only for Allah detach yourself from everything and turn your heart only towards Allah. 

What I have come to know  according to their standard we are mushriks. 

can't physically see him. 

Everything is Satan if it' prevents one from remembering Allah. 

So all our actions or working or reading are not directed to please and know Allah so it acts ass satan. (Barrier to prevent access to Truth )

It's unfortunate that even in salat we do not remember Allah and do not fear Allah since this fearing of Allah in salat is criteria of iman. 

Why we all sin despite offering salat ,when Allah clearly says in quran Salat prevents one from wrong doings and vulgarity. 

Edited by islam25

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5 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

 

Mr.i request you to go through the works of gnostics and Awlias. Even just read the" Adabus salat "by imam Khomeini and" slef discipline "by Ayatollah Ibrahim Amini .it will help in understanding the Islam in some more depth. 

Even go through the" kernels of kernel "by Ayatollah MOHHAMAD Hussain Tabatbaie. 

 

Edited by islam25

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12 hours ago, islam25 said:

They say it's within their soul they see the Attributes of Allah and beauty and grandeur not with eyes. How their soul sees Allah knows best. But yes this path of self purification is free to everyone and it's this for which all Ambias as and books of Allah were send. Unfortunately our love for world and slef love and forgetting Allah makes heart blind to see Truth. 

You have to work sincerely only for Allah detach yourself from everything and turn your heart only towards Allah. 

What I have come to know  according to their standard we are mushriks. 

can't physically see him. 

Everything is Satan if it' prevents one from remembering Allah. 

So all our actions or working or reading are not directed to please and know Allah so it acts ass satan. (Barrier to prevent access to Truth )

It's unfortunate that even in salat we do not remember Allah and do not fear Allah since this fearing of Allah in salat is criteria of iman. 

Why we all sin despite offering salat ,when Allah clearly says in quran Salat prevents one from wrong doings and vulgarity. 

It looks like we both are saying same thing that Allah can't been seen through eyes but you could feel his presence in his creation. So i don't know why are you arguing about this.

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On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Ron_Burgundy said:

It looks like we both are saying same thing that Allah can't been seen through eyes but you could feel his presence in his creation. So i don't know why are you arguing about this.

I do not argue you. But yes I forward shia view of seeing Allah. 

Regarding your view of feeling Allah trough creation is different from seeing Allah. 

Have you  ever felt Allah. What faculties of human body is needed to feel Allah.?

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On 8/20/2017 at 7:06 AM, islam25 said:

I do not argue you. But yes I forward shia view of seeing Allah. 

Regarding your view of feeling Allah trough creation is different from seeing Allah. 

Have you  ever felt Allah. What faculties of human body is needed to feel Allah.?

I don't think I am at that point where i could feel him, but yes i do know he does exist and he is out there running this entire universe. 

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