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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Salafis think we can see Allah's face...

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Just now, Dhulfikar said:

Yes brother we agree with this. But their beliefs in this matter is different with hearth vision. 

That is not big question. What ever will be the means vision in hereafter that will witness Allah. But definitely not in entirety. Not necessarily like we see objects. Yes Allah can be seen at qayamah. But how He will be seen we can't  say. 

But in this world Allah can be seen with vision of heart and not eyes. For that heart needs to clear like mirror not stained with darkness of sin and shrik. 

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That is not big question. What ever will be the means vision in hereafter that will witness Allah. But definitely not in entirety. Not necessarily like we see objects. Yes Allah can be seen at qayamah. But how He will be seen we can't  say. 

Lets make it clear. The hearth vision sees Allah, means the hearth vision sees the sign of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and the sing of Allah are other than Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. If we say the vision in hereafter is eye related, then the recognition had taken the place and thus we say they have comprehend Him in knowledge. And Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى says "And they do not comprehend Him in knowledge. Q53:18"

Prove me that these Sunnis do not mean eye vision in hereafter. All of their hadiths indicate they are going to see Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى trought their eye visions. And they say of course they do not see Allah fully, but part of Him.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

Yes Allah can be seen at qayamah. But how He will be seen we can't  say. 

His signs will be available for everyone's vision every where. No one can see His wajood or zaat.

Surah Qaf, Verse 22:

لَّقَدْ كُنتَ فِي غَفْلَةٍ مِّنْ هَٰذَا فَكَشَفْنَا عَنكَ غِطَاءَكَ فَبَصَرُكَ الْيَوْمَ حَدِيدٌ

Certainly you were heedless of it, but now We have removed from you your veil, so your sight today is sharp.

(English - Shakir)

 

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3 hours ago, islam25 said:

That is not big question. What ever will be the means vision in hereafter that will witness Allah. But definitely not in entirety. Not necessarily like we see objects. Yes Allah can be seen at qayamah. But how He will be seen we can't  say. 

But in this world Allah can be seen with vision of heart and not eyes. For that heart needs to clear like mirror not stained with darkness of sin and shrik. 

Brother, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting ahaadith but you never saw Allah and you will never see Him.

If you believe you can see Allah you do not know Allah. 

Seeing Him with the heart however has nothing to do with matter, limitations color or whatsoever.

It's just a very high level of iman.

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6 hours ago, Faruk said:

Brother, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting ahaadith but you never saw Allah and you will never see Him.

If you believe you can see Allah you do not know Allah. 

Seeing Him with the heart however has nothing to do with matter, limitations color or whatsoever.

It's just a very high level of iman.

Imam jaffar Sadiq As was asked by Abu basir. Can Allah be seen at qayamah. Imam replied not only in  qiamah but momineen will see him in this world. 

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6 hours ago, Faruk said:

Brother, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting ahaadith but you never saw Allah and you will never see Him.

If you believe you can see Allah you do not know Allah. 

Seeing Him with the heart however has nothing to do with matter, limitations color or whatsoever.

It's just a very high level of iman.

Definitely Allah can be seen. 

But how?

According to Shia narrations it's heart that can see Allah and it's sins and shrik that veils heart. 

O my God, (please) grant me absolute devotion to You

وَانِرْ ابْصَارَ قُلُوبِنَا بِضِيَاءِ نَظَرِهَا إِلَيْكَ

and illuminate the sights of our hearts with the light of observing of You

حَتَّىٰ تَخْرِقَ ابْصَارُ ٱلْقُلُوبِ حُجُبَ ٱلنُّورِ

so that the sights of the hearts will penetrate the Screens of Light

فَتَصِلَ إِلَىٰ مَعْدِنِ ٱلْعَظَمَةِ

and arrive at the Core of Magnificence,

وَتَصِيرَ ارْوَاحُنَا مُعَلَّقَةً بِعِزِّ قُدْسِكَ

and that our souls hang to the majesty of Your Holiness.

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12 hours ago, islam25 said:

Definitely Allah can be seen. 

But how?

According to Shia narrations it's heart that can see Allah and it's sins and shrik that veils heart. 

O my God, (please) grant me absolute devotion to You

وَانِرْ ابْصَارَ قُلُوبِنَا بِضِيَاءِ نَظَرِهَا إِلَيْكَ

and illuminate the sights of our hearts with the light of observing of You

حَتَّىٰ تَخْرِقَ ابْصَارُ ٱلْقُلُوبِ حُجُبَ ٱلنُّورِ

so that the sights of the hearts will penetrate the Screens of Light

فَتَصِلَ إِلَىٰ مَعْدِنِ ٱلْعَظَمَةِ

and arrive at the Core of Magnificence,

وَتَصِيرَ ارْوَاحُنَا مُعَلَّقَةً بِعِزِّ قُدْسِكَ

and that our souls hang to the majesty of Your Holiness.

You can physically see God? 

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1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

You can physically see God? 

Mrs accordin quran and teaching of Ahlebayt as we already see Allah but we ignorant that do not recognise him. Yes to recognise him it needs devoted heart and sinless soul. That is the aim of teaching of all Ambias as how to purify soul from all sorts sins and shrike. Then they see Allah. 

But what they see is beyond description in the language of this world. So they can't convey to others. That means every have to himself achieve purification to see Allah .

Seeing physically or with eyes have no significance. 

Imam Ali  as innovation. 

O my God, (please) grant me absolute devotion to You

وَانِرْ ابْصَارَ قُلُوبِنَا بِضِيَاءِ نَظَرِهَا إِلَيْكَ

and illuminate the sights of our hearts with the light of observing of You

حَتَّىٰ تَخْرِقَ ابْصَارُ ٱلْقُلُوبِ حُجُبَ ٱلنُّورِ

so that the sights of the hearts will penetrate the Screens of Light

فَتَصِلَ إِلَىٰ مَعْدِنِ ٱلْعَظَمَةِ

and arrive at the Core of Magnificence,

وَتَصِيرَ ارْوَاحُنَا مُعَلَّقَةً بِعِزِّ قُدْسِكَ

and that our souls hang to the majesty of Your Holiness..

Similarly when imam jafar safiq as was asked weather momin can see Allah in Qayamah he agreed. But he added that momin can see Allah even in this world. 

But it needs absolute dissociation from everything and submitting to Allah. 

Prophet puh narrated that if you learn to be silence then you will see what I see. 

Edited by islam25

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On ‎16‎-‎8‎-‎2017 at 4:55 AM, islam25 said:

Imam jaffar Sadiq As was asked by Abu basir. Can Allah be seen at qayamah. Imam replied not only in  qiamah but momineen will see him in this world. 

You do not seem to be aware of the fact that this hadith is actually a switch of the concept of 'seeing Allah'.

It switched from the literal meaning to the figurative meaning of 'seeing Allah'. Seeing Allah in the figurative sense means to have an intense awareness of Allah's existence. Not only because of reason but with the heart as well.

It has nothing to do with the physical/literal meaning of 'salafi's'.

Also check the diffirence of seeing Allah after death and before death. The salafi's will never claim Allah can be seen before death as their concept is a literal/physical one.

Edited by Faruk

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9 minutes ago, Faruk said:

You do not seem to be aware of the fact that this hadith is actually a switch of the concept of 'seeing Allah'.

It switched from the literal meaning to the figurative meaning of 'seeing Allah'. Seeing Allah in the figurative sense means to have an intense awareness of Allah's existence. Not only because of reason but with the heart as well.

It has nothing to do with the physical/literal meaning of 'salafi's'.

Also check the diffirence of seeing Allah after death and before death. The salafi's will never claim Allah can be seen before death as their concept is a literal/physical one.

Mr.I have nothing to do what salafi believe. The main question was seeing of Allah. 

Yes  according  to quran and Ahlebayt as 

Second question is how. 

With eyes or heart or soul. It is with heart according to Ahlebayt as. Even today it is possible. 

How do see dreams. Do you see it with eyes? 

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9 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.I have nothing to do what salafi believe. The main question was seeing of Allah. 

Well then read the title of the topic again. It's about the Salafi interpretation of seeing Allah or Allah's face.

You're mixing up two entirely diffirent concepts. The figurative and the literal one.
 

Quote

How do see dreams. Do you see it with eyes? 

Well, can you see Allah in your dreams?

Awnser: No

Dreams manifest itself with that which our senses already know from the material world and Allah cannot and never be caught in physical or material features as He is no part of creation.
 

Edited by Faruk

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On 8/5/2017 at 2:57 PM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Honestly I have yet to see a defence from Salafis on this position. Can anyone tell me how Salafis refute or defend this?

They think he has hands but not human hands.

He has eyes but not human eyes.

Legs but not human leg.

?????? 

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5 minutes ago, M.IB said:

They think he has hands but not human hands.

He has eyes but not human eyes.

Legs but not human leg.

?????? 

There is no other way to defend it like this when the eyes of the heart are closed.

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40 minutes ago, Faruk said:

Well then read the title of the topic again. It's about the Salafi interpretation of seeing Allah or Allah's face.

You're mixing up two entirely diffirent concepts. The figurative and the literal one.
 

Well, can you see Allah in your dreams?

Awnser: No

Dreams manifest itself with that which our senses already know from the material world and Allah cannot and never be caught in physical or material features as He is no part of creation.
 

I never said Allah is material or physical. But yes Allah can be seen with heart .

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Allah cannot be seen with the eyes rather with the witnessing of faith.

 

something along those lines it's been narrated that Imam Ali said.

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1 hour ago, islam25 said:

I never said Allah is material or physical. But yes Allah can be seen with heart .

If so then why do Salafi believe we can only see Allah after death?

What is the diffirence between seeing Allah with the heart during this life and seeing Him only after death?

Edited by Faruk

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7 minutes ago, Faruk said:

If so then why do Salafi believe we can only see Allah after death?

I am not salafi. I do not have to do what salafi believe. 

I am shia Muslim. 

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3 minutes ago, islam25 said:

I am not salafi. I do not have to do what salafi believe. 

I am shia Muslim. 

My point was that you were defending the Salafi concept of seeing Allah with the interpretation and meaning of the Shia concept of seeing Allah.

The Salafi concept of seeing Allah sounds christian especially to an ex-christian while the Shia concept does not contradict the Quran.

There surely is a diffirence between the two.

Edited by Faruk

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Everyone is aware of Musa (as) story when he asked Allah (swt):

he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee.

It doesn't make any sense to say O Allah show me your Signs, so that I may look upon your Signs. So it means in literal sense where the eye vision is looking upon something. When Sunnis take this verse and say that it only possible in the hereafter, it means they do not mean seeing Allah trough hearth vision, rather but by eye vision.

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39 minutes ago, Faruk said:

My point was that you were defending the Salafi concept of seeing Allah with the interpretation and meaning of the Shia concept of seeing Allah.

The Salafi concept of seeing Allah sounds christian especially to an ex-christian while the Shia concept does not contradict the Quran.

There surely is a diffirence between the two.

Brother It hardly matters for me what salafi believe. 

When quran and Ahlebayt as confirmed that Allah can be seen. Why should I deny it. 

Keep prejudice against salafi are any one is major sin. 

 

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48 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Brother It hardly matters for me what salafi believe. 

When quran and Ahlebayt as confirmed that Allah can be seen. Why should I deny it. 

Keep prejudice against salafi are any one is major sin. 

 

You use a way too simplistic approach to discuss this matter in depth.

Go and ask a Salafi if Allah can be seen with the heart and before death. Only then you will understand the diffirence.

And I am not a Sunni or a Shia or whatever. I take truth no matter who it says.


 

Edited by Faruk

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1 hour ago, Faruk said:

You use a way too simplistic approach to discuss this matter in depth.

Go and ask a Salafi if Allah can be seen with the heart and before death. Only then you will understand the diffirence.

And I am not a Sunni or a Shia or whatever. I take truth no matter who it says.


 

OK .I told you my understanding. And I know non of us have absolute information about it. So even if we differ it is not big matter. 

 

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15 minutes ago, islam25 said:

OK .I told you my understanding. And I know non of us have absolute information about it. So even if we differ it is not big matter. 

 

It is.

For the antropomorphists and the non-antropomorphists as well.

Edited by Faruk

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31 minutes ago, Faruk said:

It is.

For the antropomorphists and the non-antropomorphists as well.

Mr. I suggest you to read the works of mulla sadra, Ayatollah qadhi, MOHHAMAD  Hussain Tabatbaie and Imam Khomeini. 

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