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I am beginning to hate/detest my sunni brother. He is my best friend. But I guess he won't be anymore. ;sighs; because his reasoning is so illogical.

Wanna know?

I told him the whole bunch of references from his sunni books and he replies to all of them with:
"I have a book of a convert of shia to sunni, he was a great scholar of yours too... *some name here* You should read it... otherwise it proves that you are not even sure of your fiqh."

And then he said some bunch of messed up things telling me that he would pray for me to Allah and all. I am literally banging my head in a wall. I am never. I swear... never gonna talk with sunni's about Islam. (just kidding) 

He said egoistic words while considering that he is on the right path. He didn't even listen to the arguments I told him open-mindedly. He is conservative, I bet. I don't know what I am gonna do with him now... I don't really want him as my friend anymore...

And something to point out, he would say... I will introduce you to my cousin he has read a lot of books and he can give you a lot more convincing arguments. Then somewhere said, let's ask this (common) friend of ours, he will explain you everything.

And I was like: Dude, Allah is going to ask you about YOUR religion and faith not someone else's! Screw it (pardon my language), I care about you not them!

... and I said things along those lines to him.

I am literally tired of this. 

No matter how many arguments I put up, he is just going to say something really lame and typical sunni-like thing to me. And I would be banging my head in a wall. So I AM DONE!!

P.s. Thanks for reading this ranting. Haha.

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8 hours ago, King-Ali said:

I am beginning to hate/detest my sunni brother. He is my best friend. But I guess he won't be anymore. ;sighs; because his reasoning is so illogical. [edit]

Dont hate him. Dont discriminate Sunnis. 

Edited by Hameedeh
Quote was edited to shorten the length.

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You shouldn't have done this if he was your best friend. Just make up,better for both of you.

For me never talk about religion with your  friend from another religion/sect .It makes toxic air.

I have tried to talk with my Christian friend,he kept persisting that Prophet Muhammad married a 6 years old girl(when she was actually 18-20) and I brought evidences. I knew then that he was conservative. 

Then I changed the subject ... You should have done it.

But now you did then maybe you can be a better person and do a peace treaty just like Imam Hasan [as] did with Muawiya. 

Let it be his choice.Allah will plan,he is the best planner.

Edited by Unforgiven

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3 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

You shouldn't have done this if he was your best friend. Just make up,better.

For me never talk about religion with your non-Muslim/shia friend.It makes toxic air.

I have tried to talk with my Christian friend,he kept persisting that Prophet Muhammad married a 6 years old girl(when she was actually 18-20) and I brought evidences. I knew then that he was conservative. 

Then I changed the subject ... You should have done it.

But now you did then maybe you can be a better person and do a peace treaty just like Imam Hasan [as] did with Muawiya. 

"It is because of your hands(as in minds,sinning) man that you destroyed yourself" I once heard this statement that Allah said it. Let it be his choice. 

Yes, but I thought it was my duty to tell him what the shi'ism is all about. But if he is going to go in denial... there isn't really much to say. But he did tick me off whenever he said: "I will pray for your forgiveness." 

Edited by King-Ali

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Just now, King-Ali said:

Yes, but I thought it was my duty to tell him what the shi'ism is all about. But if he is going to go in denial... there isn't really much to say. But he did tick me off whenever he said: "I will pray for you forgiveness." 

I know it looks a bit provocative too,He looks conservative type 1,the ones who won't listen at all,I once was debating a Sunni guy,about 1 hour,till he after said " I am tired dude I can't debate anymore"

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2 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

I know it looks a bit provocative too,He looks conservative type 1,the ones who won't listen at all,I once was debating a Sunni guy,about 1 hour,till he after said " I am tired dude I can't debate anymore"

In my school life I was debating and the guys literally rejected being a sunni in the sense that they would say: We only follow Quran and Sunnah. At that time I wasn't aware of many hadiths of Muhammad PBUH and I couldn't confront them because they weren't following even their own books of sunni scholars. I felt gloomy, but now I have hadiths that I wish I knew at that time. Anyways, this time around, I feel like he is mocking me.

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2 minutes ago, King-Ali said:

In my school life I was debating and the guys literally rejected being a sunni in the sense that they would say: We only follow Quran and Sunnah. At that time I wasn't aware of many hadiths of Muhammad PBUH and I couldn't confront them because they weren't following even their own books of sunni scholars. I felt gloomy, but now I have hadiths that I wish I knew at that time. Anyways, this time around, I feel like he is mocking me.

Why do you debate .what is your aim of debatting. To convert them or convey your point. 

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Just now, islam25 said:

Why do you debate .what is your aim of debatting. To convert them or convey your point. 

That's a good way to put it. But... the answer is actually both. I am conveying my point to him because I feel or sense that it is my duty to do so as a Muslim. (or is it not? There is no hadith to clarify my point? Anybody?)

And I also want to convert him. Because I want him to be from believers who will stand beside Muhammad saw, Ali, the Ahlelbayt. I want him to be there with me Insha'Allah. For that he needs to be a shia, no?

And also since he is my best friend, there are things I like to only share and talk with him when I have nobody else. So... if he is from the same sect, I can also learn and talk about Islam with him... and he can also learn it too? It's good to have a companion to talk to about these things.

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4 minutes ago, King-Ali said:

That's a good way to put it. But... the answer is actually both. I am conveying my point to him because I feel or sense that it is my duty to do so as a Muslim. (or is it not? There is no hadith to clarify my point? Anybody?)

And I also want to convert him. Because I want him to be from believers who will stand beside Muhammad saw, Ali, the Ahlelbayt. I want him to be there with me Insha'Allah. For that he needs to be a shia, no?

And also since he is my best friend, there are things I like to only share and talk with him when I have nobody else. So... if he is from the same sect, I can also learn and talk about Islam with him... and he can also learn it too? It's good to have a companion to talk to about these things.

That is nice. But if you will hate him that means you do not follow Islam and teaching of Ahlulbayt as. One of the good triat of momin is he has not enmity against any. So how can you hate him.

Let at most follow him Tawheed and Risalat. And may be gradually he will come to recognise willayat of Ali. 

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2 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is nice. But if you will hate him that means you do not follow Islam and teaching of Ahlulbayt as. One of the good triat of momin is he has not enmity against any. So how can you hate him.

Let at most follow him Tawheed and Risalat. And may be gradually he will come to recognise willayat of Ali. 

Yeah. I guess patience is the key. And no doubt, the family of Fatemah s.a. were the most patient.

And... how do I come about doing that? Sunni's already follow Tawheed and Risalat, no?

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1 minute ago, King-Ali said:

Yeah. I guess patience is the key. And no doubt, the family of Fatemah s.a. were the most patient.

And... how do I come about doing that? Sunni's already follow Tawheed and Risalat, no?

Key of salvation primarily lies in understanding tawheed. Just being Shia doesn't mean we know real Tawheed and willayah. We too are equal in need of understanding Tawheed and incorporating it's knowledge and belief within our soul to get to Allah. 

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5 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Key of salvation primarily lies in understanding tawheed. Just being Shia doesn't mean we know real Tawheed and willayah. We too are equal in need of understanding Tawheed and incorporating it's knowledge and belief within our soul to get to Allah. 

Alright, but how do I come about knowing the "real tawheed" that you mention?

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Just now, King-Ali said:

Alright, but how do I come about knowing the "real tawheed" that you mention?

That is good. Knowing Tawheed doesn't mearly mean our Father or teacher said that Allah is one. We too say Allah is one. Even though it is ture but not sufficient. 

Just a question. 

Quran says salat keeps people away from kufr and wrong doing. 

Then why despite we offer salat still we lie or back bite or do other sins. 

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8 minutes ago, islam25 said:

That is good. Knowing Tawheed doesn't mearly mean our Father or teacher said that Allah is one. We too say Allah is one. Even though it is ture but not sufficient. 

Just a question. 

Quran says salat keeps people away from kufr and wrong doing. 

Then why despite we offer salat still we lie or back bite or do other sins. 

Because Allah has given everyone free will. Salat does not restrict one from their free will. It merely protects you from doing wrong things unless you have firmly resolved to do them actually.

That's my view.

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Just now, King-Ali said:

Because Allah has given everyone free will. Salat does not restrict one from their free will. It merely protects you from doing wrong things unless you have firmly resolved to do them actually.

That's my view.

No.quran says salat keeps one away from wrong doings. But we offer salat still do all sins. May be we become worse day by day. 

OK. 

Quran says momin is submissive( sacred of Allah) in salat. Are we scared of Allah. If not then we are not momin.

This all is because we do not know Allah   

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1 hour ago, King-Ali said:

I am beginning to hate/detest my sunni brother. He is my best friend. But I guess he won't be anymore. ;sighs; because his reasoning is so illogical.

Wanna know?

I told him the whole bunch of references from his sunni books and he replies to all of them with:
"I have a book of a convert of shia to sunni, he was a great scholar of yours too... *some name here* You should read it... otherwise it proves that you are not even sure of your fiqh."
 

And then he said some bunch of messed up things telling me that he would pray for me to Allah and all. I am literally banging my head in a wall. I am never. I swear... never gonna talk with sunni's about Islam. (just kidding) 

He said egoistic words while considering that he is on the right path. He didn't even listen to the arguments I told him open-mindedly. He is conservative, I bet. I don't know what I am gonna do with him now... I don't really want him as my friend anymore...

And something to point out, he would say... I will introduce you to my cousin he has read a lot of books and he can give you a lot more convincing arguments. Then somewhere said, let's ask this (common) friend of ours, he will explain you everything.

And I was like: Dude, Allah is going to ask you about YOUR religion and faith not someone else's! Screw it (pardon my language), I care about you not them!

... and I said things along those lines to him.

I am literally tired of this. 

No matter how many arguments I put up, he is just going to say something really lame and typical sunni-like thing to me. And I would be banging my head in a wall. So I AM DONE!!

 

 

 

P.s. Thanks for reading this ranting. Haha.

First of all rule of friendship is that never talk about religion. This rule I have learned now and I do not talk religion except on Shiachat. 

Secondly, I was so emotional about religion, until I figure it out that for speaking about religion, the best way is of Prophet PBUHHP and our Imams that is be patient and be compassionate in language.

Finally, it does not matter if shia converts to sunni for a Shia, because we have known that many of the people who believed in the extraordinary intelligence of our Imams turned away from them, the most obvious example of this is Imam Abu Hanifah of Sunni Fiqh. So, tell your friend that I do not care if whole of the universe turns against Allah and Ahlebait a.s, what I care is that during that time, I be the only one upon whom Allah and Imams be happy with me, for Allah says that if whole of community turns away from me and there be a single believer then I will not care to put whole of disobedient community into hell. 

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@King-Ali.

So we are neither submissive in salat nor salat keeps us away from sins. It is all because of poor understanding of Allah. 

So we need to use all efforts to know Allah. So that we too will receive mercy and favour of Allah in hereafter. 

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Love is beautiful. You don't need to destest them, just because you disagree. They are not nawasib. They didn't hurt the holy household alehoma al Salam. They are just misguided. May Allah guide us all.

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12 hours ago, King-Ali said:

I am beginning to hate/detest my sunni brother. He is my best friend. But I guess he won't be anymore. ;sighs; because his reasoning is so illogical.

Wanna know?

I told him the whole bunch of references from his sunni books and he replies to all of them with:
"I have a book of a convert of shia to sunni, he was a great scholar of yours too... *some name here* You should read it... otherwise it proves that you are not even sure of your fiqh."

And then he said some bunch of messed up things telling me that he would pray for me to Allah and all. I am literally banging my head in a wall. I am never. I swear... never gonna talk with sunni's about Islam. (just kidding) 

He said egoistic words while considering that he is on the right path. He didn't even listen to the arguments I told him open-mindedly. He is conservative, I bet. I don't know what I am gonna do with him now... I don't really want him as my friend anymore...

And something to point out, he would say... I will introduce you to my cousin he has read a lot of books and he can give you a lot more convincing arguments. Then somewhere said, let's ask this (common) friend of ours, he will explain you everything.

And I was like: Dude, Allah is going to ask you about YOUR religion and faith not someone else's! Screw it (pardon my language), I care about you not them!

... and I said things along those lines to him.

I am literally tired of this. 

No matter how many arguments I put up, he is just going to say something really lame and typical sunni-like thing to me. And I would be banging my head in a wall. So I AM DONE!!

P.s. Thanks for reading this ranting. Haha.

brother - you did your part by trying. Now it is between him and his Allah.

2 quick pointers:

  • you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink water.
  • throw a jug of water at a rock and it will trickle off it. Set the water to drip one drop at a time and you will indent the rock eventually.

All you need to tell your friend is no what we would, we dont kill innocent people which is haram in the Quran and then dont discuss religion with him.

 

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On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 6:10 AM, King-Ali said:

That's a good way to put it. But... the answer is actually both. I am conveying my point to him because I feel or sense that it is my duty to do so as a Muslim. (or is it not? There is no hadith to clarify my point? Anybody?)

And I also want to convert him. Because I want him to be from believers who will stand beside Muhammad saw, Ali, the Ahlelbayt. I want him to be there with me Insha'Allah. For that he needs to be a shia, no?

And also since he is my best friend, there are things I like to only share and talk with him when I have nobody else. So... if he is from the same sect, I can also learn and talk about Islam with him... and he can also learn it too? It's good to have a companion to talk to about these things.

المائدة 105

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا عَلَيْكُمْ أَنفُسَكُمْ ۖ لَا يَضُرُّكُم مَّن ضَلَّ إِذَا اهْتَدَيْتُمْ ۚ إِلَى اللَّـهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ

صدق الله العلي العظيم

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Let at most follow him Tawheed and Risalat. And may be gradually he will come to recognise willayat of Ali. 



Salam,

Iblis wasn't a mushrik. He knew tawhid very well. His problem was his kibr towards sayyidina Adam a.s.

 

Edited by Faruk

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The Umayyad trick was to make people believe that as long the muslims did not commit shirk they would stay muslim and enter Paradise sooner or later.

This ofcourse was to legitimize their policy towards the Ahl al-Bayt a.s. and the Ummah. So this whole emphasis on tawhid is just to distract the people from the kufr that leads to the Fire.

That's why many if not all schools that originated from the  Party of Ali a.s. (or better said the muslims that were on Haqq) consider big sins as worse as shirk i.e. leading to the Fire which is ofcourse logical but was not in favor of the usurper politics back then and now.

 

'In fact, it was hypocrisy that existed in the lifetime of the Prophet (ﷺ) but today it is Kufr (disbelief) after belief.'
--Sahih Bukhari


 

Edited by Faruk

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