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15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I do not know anything unless explained. What do you want to say ? 

How can you even be a Muslim then? A Muslim first and foremost must have knowledge (Ilm) and belief (Iman) on the Oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid).

Edited by iavswn

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3 minutes ago, iavswn said:

How can you even be a Muslim then? A Muslim first and foremost must have knowledge (Ilm) and belief (Iman) concerning the Oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid).

When did I say that I am not a Muslim ? And when did I say that I do not believe in oneness of Allah ? 

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8 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

When did I say that I am not a Muslim ? And when did I say that I do not believe in oneness of Allah ? 

This is a Strawman attack. I never said you were not Muslim. I asked how you can be one without knowledge concerning the oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid).

Edited by iavswn

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3 hours ago, iavswn said:

How can a Muslim be Shia or Sunni when Allah has prohibited the creation of divisions? 

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Arabic: وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 3:103

Note: Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

You are absolutely correct. There is only Muslim.

Original Muslims were all shia because they loved the Prophet and his AhlulBayt. After the demise of the Prophet, Islam was hijacked by the Hypocrites who created divisions amongst Muslims.

Chief Hypocrite was Muawiya who actually termed the phrase "Ahle-Sunnah Wal Jama'ah" to separate Muslims from the hypocrites. From that point onwards, the Muslims became known as Shia and hypocrites became known as ASWJ.

Welcome to History 101.

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1 hour ago, iavswn said:

They argue that Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) is superior to the twelve Imams not because he was a Prophet, but rather “since Prophet Muhammad was an Imam during his time as well.

True.He was an Imam just like Allah made prophet Ibrahim an Imam to his people. check Quran.

Imamah is when someone holds firm believes and have extremely deep knowledge in Islam.

Those are the "People of Al-Dhikr" and Al-'Ilm

 

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51 minutes ago, iavswn said:

This is a Strawman attack. I never said you were not Muslim. I asked how you can be one without knowledge concerning the oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid).

First of all, I have never met with Mr. Strawman, so, I do not know what "Strawman attack" means.

And secondly, I still did not understand what you mean by this: " I asked how you can be one without knowledge concerning the oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid)". One or Win ? 

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55 minutes ago, iavswn said:

This is a Strawman attack. I never said you were not Muslim. I asked how you can be one without knowledge concerning the oneness-of-Allah (Tawhid).

ok. Now I got it. 

I would like to ask you what is the thing which you saw in me which is in contradiction to "Tauheed" ? 

Edited by Sindbad05

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...

5 hours ago, Dhulfikar said:

A muslim that is not Shia or Sunni is also a Sect. There are sects in Islam and only one is the correct one. We should hold on truth and should not be divided.

Really, Dhulfikar?  "Sectless" l view as better.

5 hours ago, iavswn said:

 

Stating that only one is correct is  a cop-out because it ignores reality. 

Correct, then...

4 hours ago, iavswn said:

If the Qur'an unites us as Muslims then why is everyone here in this thread trying to find ways around it?

you partially answered your own question. To wit:

3 hours ago, iavswn said:

Agreed.

Qur'an 3:85 If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from

Arabic: وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ - 3:85

Qur'an 3:19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom.

Arabic: إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۗ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ - 3:19

 

yet you need to add ii:8-12 and xviii:56-57.

Yeah, l am being incomplete yet an answer's improvement.

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Really, Dhulfikar?  "Sectless" l view as better.

 

Because we know that there are 73 sect on Islam and only one is right from them. A person who believe only in Qur'an and not Sunnah and reject others is also an sect, most of these people who say that they are not Shi'i or Sunni usually interpreter the Qur'an by themselves and follow what is logical for themselves.

Let say there was the original path, and after departure of Nabi Muhammad (saws), became division, then we have two paths, one is correct path and one is not. Then we can apply that only one group or sect/part from these two parts is correct.

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8 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Because we know that there are 73 sect on Islam and only one is right from them. A person who believe only in Qur'an and not Sunnah and reject others is also an sect, most of these people who say that they are not Shi'i or Sunni usually interpreter the Qur'an by themselves and follow what is logical for themselves.

Let say there was the original path, and after departure of Nabi Muhammad (saws), became division, then we have two paths, one is correct path and one is not. Then we can apply that only one group or sect/part from these two parts is correct.

The Prophet (PBUH) said there "will be". He did not say there should be.

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مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ صَالِحٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَالِدٍ الْكَابُلِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع قَالَ «ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فِيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشاكِسُونَ وَ رَجُلًا سَلَماً لِرَجُلٍ هَلْ يَسْتَوِيانِ مَثَلًا» (الزمر -: 29 -)
قَالَ أَمَّا الَّذِي فِيهِ شُرَكَاءُ مُتَشَاكِسُونَ فَلِأَنَّ الْأَوَّلَ يَجْمَعُ الْمُتَفَرِّقُونَ وَلَايَتَهُ وَ هُمْ فِي ذَلِكَ يَلْعَنُ بَعْضُهُمْ بَعْضاً وَ يَبْرَأُ بَعْضُهُمْ مِنْ بَعْضٍ فَأَمَّا رَجُلٌ سَلَمُ رَجُلٍ فَإِنَّهُ الْأَوَّلُ حَقّاً وَ شِيعَتُهُ
ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ الْيَهُودَ تَفَرَّقُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ مُوسَى ع عَلَى إِحْدَى وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً مِنْهَا فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ سَبْعُونَ فِرْقَةً فِي النَّارِ 
وَ تَفَرَّقَتِ النَّصَارَى بَعْدَ عِيسَى ع عَلَى اثْنَتَيْنِ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فِرْقَةٌ مِنْهَا فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ إِحْدَى وَ سَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ 
وَ تَفَرَّقَتْ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةُ بَعْدَ نَبِيِّهَا ص عَلَى ثَلَاثٍ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً اثْنَتَانِ وَ سَبْعُونَ فِرْقَةً فِي النَّارِ وَ فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ مِنَ الثَّلَاثِ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً ثَلَاثَ عَشْرَةَ فِرْقَةً تَنْتَحِلُ وَلَايَتَنَا وَ مَوَدَّتَنَا اثْنَتَا عَشْرَةَ فِرْقَةً مِنْهَا فِي النَّارِ وَ فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ سِتُّونَ فِرْقَةً مِنْ سَائِرِ النَّاسِ فِي النَّارِ
From Aboo Khaalid Al-Kaabulee (Kankar) from Abee Ja`far (عليه السلام): He said: (asked about the words) «God tells a parable in which there is a company of quarrelsome people and only one of them is well disciplined. Can they be considered as equal? » (39:39).
 
He (عليه السلام) said: «The quarrelsome ones» are because the first ones gather the different ones in his leadership and they did la`nah (curse) and did bara’a (disassociate) from each other. «The well disciplined man» is the first in the matters of his right as well as his Shee`ahs (followers).
 
Then He (عليه السلام) said: “The Jews after Moosa (عليه السلام) separated into 71 sects of which one is in Jannah (i.e. Heaven) and the (remaining) 70 sects are in the fire (i.e. Hell).
And the Christians after `Eesa (عليه السلام) separated into 72 sects of which one sect is in Jannah and the (remaining) 71 (sects) are in the fire.
And this Ummah after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) separated into 73 sects and 72 sects are in the fire and one sect is in Jannah and from the 73 sects, 13 of the sects plagiarize/impersonate friendship and wilayah of us (the Imaams), and 12 sects from it are in the fire, and one sect is in Jannah, and the (remaining) 60 sects from the rest of the people are in the fire”

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5 hours ago, kirtc said:

@iavswn
I asked if you read hadith?

Why does it matter if I read them or not? The prophet himself never created divisions and if a one seems to report he did it would be very likely be forged or fabricated (Maudu`) anyways as the prophet never went against the Qur'an.

Edited by iavswn

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Quote

very likely be forged or fabricated (Maudu`) anyways as the prophet never went against the Qur'an.

Likely? How do you know what is likely an fabrication or forged? A hadith that does not sound right in your intellectual/reasoning?

Quote

The prophet himself never created divisions

How can he even create an division in first place? When it is the Prophet who united them all and only a Divine leader can unite us all again.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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15 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:
مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عِيسَى عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ جَمِيلِ بْنِ صَالِحٍ عَنْ أَبِي خَالِدٍ الْكَابُلِيِّ عَنْ أَبِي جَعْفَرٍ ع قَالَ «ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فِيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشاكِسُونَ وَ رَجُلًا سَلَماً لِرَجُلٍ هَلْ يَسْتَوِيانِ مَثَلًا» (الزمر -: 29 -)
قَالَ أَمَّا الَّذِي فِيهِ شُرَكَاءُ مُتَشَاكِسُونَ فَلِأَنَّ الْأَوَّلَ يَجْمَعُ الْمُتَفَرِّقُونَ وَلَايَتَهُ وَ هُمْ فِي ذَلِكَ يَلْعَنُ بَعْضُهُمْ بَعْضاً وَ يَبْرَأُ بَعْضُهُمْ مِنْ بَعْضٍ فَأَمَّا رَجُلٌ سَلَمُ رَجُلٍ فَإِنَّهُ الْأَوَّلُ حَقّاً وَ شِيعَتُهُ
ثُمَّ قَالَ إِنَّ الْيَهُودَ تَفَرَّقُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ مُوسَى ع عَلَى إِحْدَى وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً مِنْهَا فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ سَبْعُونَ فِرْقَةً فِي النَّارِ 
وَ تَفَرَّقَتِ النَّصَارَى بَعْدَ عِيسَى ع عَلَى اثْنَتَيْنِ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً فِرْقَةٌ مِنْهَا فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ إِحْدَى وَ سَبْعُونَ فِي النَّارِ 
وَ تَفَرَّقَتْ هَذِهِ الْأُمَّةُ بَعْدَ نَبِيِّهَا ص عَلَى ثَلَاثٍ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً اثْنَتَانِ وَ سَبْعُونَ فِرْقَةً فِي النَّارِ وَ فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ مِنَ الثَّلَاثِ وَ سَبْعِينَ فِرْقَةً ثَلَاثَ عَشْرَةَ فِرْقَةً تَنْتَحِلُ وَلَايَتَنَا وَ مَوَدَّتَنَا اثْنَتَا عَشْرَةَ فِرْقَةً مِنْهَا فِي النَّارِ وَ فِرْقَةٌ فِي الْجَنَّةِ وَ سِتُّونَ فِرْقَةً مِنْ سَائِرِ النَّاسِ فِي النَّارِ
From Aboo Khaalid Al-Kaabulee (Kankar) from Abee Ja`far (عليه السلام): He said: (asked about the words) «God tells a parable in which there is a company of quarrelsome people and only one of them is well disciplined. Can they be considered as equal? » (39:39).
 
He (عليه السلام) said: «The quarrelsome ones» are because the first ones gather the different ones in his leadership and they did la`nah (curse) and did bara’a (disassociate) from each other. «The well disciplined man» is the first in the matters of his right as well as his Shee`ahs (followers).
 
Then He (عليه السلام) said: “The Jews after Moosa (عليه السلام) separated into 71 sects of which one is in Jannah (i.e. Heaven) and the (remaining) 70 sects are in the fire (i.e. Hell).
And the Christians after `Eesa (عليه السلام) separated into 72 sects of which one sect is in Jannah and the (remaining) 71 (sects) are in the fire.
And this Ummah after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) separated into 73 sects and 72 sects are in the fire and one sect is in Jannah and from the 73 sects, 13 of the sects plagiarize/impersonate friendship and wilayah of us (the Imaams), and 12 sects from it are in the fire, and one sect is in Jannah, and the (remaining) 60 sects from the rest of the people are in the fire”

I stand by my assertion of the Prophet having said "will be" and NOT "should be".

Screen Shot 2017-08-01 at 4.01.00 PM.png

Edited by iavswn

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What is the difference between "And this Ummah after the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) separated into 73 sects " and "My community will be split up into 73 sect"?

Both of them agree there will be 73 sect after nabi to day of judgement.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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While you were all in here trying to justify divisions I was in the off-topic thread expressing my disgust and outrage at the Murder of 50 innocent Shia Muslims in Afghanistan. :(

 

Edited by iavswn

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

 

Likely? How do you know what is likely an fabrication or forged? A hadith that does not sound right in your intellectual/reasoning?

How can he even create an division in first place? When it is the Prophet who united them all and only a Divine leader can unite us all again.

Simple. It goes against the Qur'an.

Edited by iavswn

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"As Muslim scholars themselves admitted, Hadith forgery in the generations after the Prophet was widespread, and many Hadiths were certainly concocted for political and sectarian causes or in an effort to help make exegetical sense of the Qur'an" (Islamic scholar Dr. Jonathan A.C. Brown, Misquoting Muhammad, p. 177, ISBN 978-1-78074-421-6)

"Extensive forgery in hadith was commonly known and acknowledged to have occurred in the early decades of the advent of Islam. It is believed to have begun following the turmoil over the murder of the third caliph, Uthman, which dealt a heavy blow to the unity of the umma. This momentous event is held responsible for the emergence of serious political differences and partisan groups such as Shia, Kharijites and Mutazila, as well as the onset of forgery in hadith. Hadith forgery was to a large extent an epiphenomenon of these developments and the conflicts they precipitated eventually led to the collapse of the early caliphate barely forty year after its inception.

A forged hadith or al-mawdu, may be defined as a report, invented by a liar, who has attributed it to the Prophet and it may include either the text or both the text and isnad of the report. Even if this is done with a pious purpose in order to promote what is deemed to be a good cause, it would still count as a forgery and no credibility would be given to the motive and purpose of a deliberate forgery. Hadith forgery has not been confined to isolated cases but took rather a wide dimension barely before the end of the first generation of Muslims in Madina. A part of this phenomenon has been associated with the expansion of the territorial domains of the Islamic state and the ever increasing number of new immigrants of Persians, Romans, Egyptians, Syrians and others who were easy prey to misguided influences against hadith.

The historical origins of forgery in hadith are somewhat uncertain. While some observers have given the caliphate of Uthman as a starting point, others have dated it a little later, at around the year 40 hijra, when political differences between the fourth caliph, Ali and the governor of al-Sham, Muawiya, led to military confrontation and the division of Muslims into various factions. According to a third view, forgery in hadith started even earlier, that is, during the caliphate of Abu Bakr when he waged the war of apostasy (ridda) against the refusers of zakah. But the year 40 is considered the more likely starting point for the development of serious and persistent differences in the community. Muslims were thus divided and hostility between them acquired a religious dimension when they began to use the Qur'an and Sunna in support of their claims. When the misguided elements among them failed to find any authority in the sources for their views, they either imposed a distorted interpretation on the source material, or embarked on outright fabrication." ("The Textbook of Hadith Studies" by Muhammad Hashim Kamali, Chapter 7: "Hadith Forgery")

Jamal al-Banna published a book in which he argues that at least 653 of the hadiths as written in Bukhari and Muslim are incorrect and should not be accepted. The Arabic book is titled: The Cleansing of Bukhari and Muslim from Useless Hadiths (2008). 

"In spite of the Prophet's explicit warning, some people did not refrain from fabricating ahadith in his name. The thousands of fabricated and false words found in fiqh books are undeniable evidence of this fact. In addition, there are some people who try to deny the existence of suchfalse ahadith." (M. Yaşar Kandemir, PhD; http://www.lastprophet.info/fabricated-hadith)

"“the problem of hadith forgery was so serious that he prohibited hadith transmission altogether.” (Brown, Daniel W., 1996 [paperback 1999], op. cit., p. 96.)

"Modern Western scholarship has seriously Questioned the historicity and authenticity of the hadith, meaning that the bulk of traditions attributed to the Prophet Muhammad were actually written much latter" (Islamic scholar Dr. John L. Esposito, islam straight path - p. 81, ISBN 0-19-518266-8)

Edited by iavswn

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10 hours ago, iavswn said:

How can a Muslim be Shia or Sunni when Allah has prohibited the creation of divisions? 

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Arabic: وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 3:103

Note: Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

:salam: Brother,

Please define 'a Muslim' as per your understanding?

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7 hours ago, iavswn said:

The Prophet (PBUH) said there "will be". He did not say there should be.

Prophet says "should"for things which "He likes". And says "Will be" for things which might be disliked or liked by him. So, He disliked it but it was known to him that humankind are so mischievous. 

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7 hours ago, iavswn said:

Why does it matter if I read them or not? The prophet himself never created divisions and if a one seems to report he did it would be very likely be forged or fabricated (Maudu`) anyways as the prophet never went against the Qur'an.

The quran tells us to pray, but it doesn't tell us how to pray. so you need hadith along with quran to complete knowledge of islam do you agree?

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@iavswn

Interesting paragraph from you from the book of Imam Mahdi a.s

Jābir Ibn ‘Abdillah says, I heard the Messenger of Allah (a.s) say, “An assembly of my Ummah will ceaselessly wage wars in the cause of righteousness and purity until the Day of Judgment. Then Jesus the son of Mary will come down. Their leader will say to him, ‘Come and lead our prayers.’ He will say, ‘Behold, one of yourselves is the leader for the rest, as a token of dignity from Allah for this Ummah.’” Al-Sheikh Abu ‘Abdillah Muhammad Ibn Yusuf Ibn Muhammad alShāfi‘ī says, This is a hasan and sahīh tradition, narrated by Muslim in his Sahīh. If the former tradition is subject to a different interpretation, it is not possible to interpret this tradition in a different manner, as it explicitly declares that Jesus (a.s) will accept the leadership of the Imam of the Muslims, who at that day will be the Mahdi (a.s). Therefore, to interpret Jesus’ saying, “Your Imam is from you” to mean “he leads you according to your book” is unjustified. The following is conceivable to be asked: Considering these traditions are valid, which state that Jesus will pray behind the Mahdi (a.s), will fight under his command, and kill the Dajjāl, and considering leadership in prayers as well as leadership in jihad obviously denotes superiority, and as the narrators and validity of these traditions are authentic before the Sunnis, just as the Shī‘a narrate them in a parallel manner—which is the valid form of consensus of Muslims, since the belief and stance of any other group other than the Shī‘a and the Sunni is discarded and not worthy of attention—the question rises that who is higher, the Imam or his follower. The answer to this query is that they both are leaders, one a prophet and the other an imam. And when one of them is the leader of the other when they are together, the Imam is the leader of the prophet. Both are above the reproach of any reproacher. They are both infallible from committing disdainful acts, hypocrisy, and pretending what they are not. None of the two call to anything that is outside the boundaries of the Shari‘a. Having said this, the Imam is better than his follower for the Shari‘a has brought a strong proof with that regard, which is the saying of the Prophet (a.s), “A person will lead the 88 congregation who is the best of them in the recitation of the Qur’ān; and should they be equal in that, their most knowledgeable will lead; and should they be equal in that, their most sapient will lead; and should they be equal in that, the one who has preceded them all in migration will lead; and should they be equal in that, the one who has the most beautiful face will lead.” Should the Imam know that Jesus is better than him, it will not be permissible for him to lead Jesus, for he knows the Sharī‘a well and for Allah, the High, has made him beyond every abominable act. Likewise, should Jesus know that he is better than him, it will not be permissible for him to follow the Imam, for Allah has made him clean from hypocrisy and pretension. Rather, since it is established that the Imam is more knowledgeable than Jesus, it is permissible for him to lead him. Likewise, as Jesus knows that the Imam is more knowledgeable than him, he follows him and prays behind him. Should this not be the case, it will not be allowed for anyone to wage jihad under the Messenger of Allah (a.s) or under anyone. What substantiates our position is the holy verse, Verily Allah has bought from the believers their lives and their wealth in exchange that the Paradise for them. They wage wars in the path of Allah, killing and getting killed. A true promise on Him in the Torah and the Evangel and the Qur’ān. Whoever fulfills his pact with Allah, rejoice the happy tidings of your pact to which you pledged allegiance and that is a mighty achievement. Since the Imam is the representative of the Prophet in his Ummah, and it is not permissible for Jesus (a.s) to get ahead of the Prophet, likewise is the case with respect to his representative.

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On 8/1/2017 at 11:39 PM, kirtc said:

The quran tells us to pray, but it doesn't tell us how to pray. so you need hadith along with quran to complete knowledge of islam do you agree?

This is tantamount to a claim of the Qur'an being incomplete without Hadeeths of the Prophet.

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