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15 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Greater? Are you questioning God will and His favors for others, if He gives other more than others?

The Shia made them greater than the prophets. NOT me!!!

Shia Ulema believe that their twelve Infallible Imams are superior to all of the Prophets, except Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم). They argue that Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) is superior to the twelve Imams not because he was a Prophet, but rather “since Prophet Muhammad was an Imam during his time as well.” (Shia Encyclopedia, “Imamat vs. Prophethood,” Part 1, http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/8.html)

Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Fazel Lankarani, one of the Head Ayatollahs in the Shia Seminary in Qum, issued the following statements on his official website:

Imam Ali (Alayhi Salam) is higher in rank than other prophets, because of his Imamate, but he is not higher in rank than the Prophet Muhammad (saws), because Muhammad (saws) was both Prophet and Imam.

Source: http://www.lankarani.org/English/faq/110q.html

This view is categorically stated in the Shia Encyclopedia:

The Shia further believe that the twelve Imams of the House of Prophet Muhammad have the rank higher than that of ALL the messengers (be Imam or not) except Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Source: Shia Encyclopedia, “Imamat vs. Prophethood,” Part 1, http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/8.html

In the book “Peshawar Nights”, the Shia scholar, Sultanu’l-Wa’izin Shirazi, says: “Since the holy prophet was superior to all other prophets Ali was also superior to them.” (Peshawar Nights, http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/7.1.html)

The same view is held by the Shia Tafseer, also available on the Al-Islam.org website: “It means that a prophet is not necessarily an Imaam and Imaamat is an office of decidedly higher order…” (S.V. Mir Ali/Ayatollah Mahdi Puya Commentary of Verse 2:124, http://www.al-islam.org/quran/)

In all of the authoratative books of the Shia, the recurring view is that the Imams are superior to the Prophets except Prophet Muhammad: “Imam ‘Ali and the other Imaams of Ahlul Bayt are believed by the Shi’as to be higher in rank than all prophets and messengers except the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w.)”(Shiism: Imaamate and Wilayah, p.96)

Ayatollah Khomeini declared: “And an essential tenet of our Shi’ite sect is that the Imams have a position which is reached neither by the angels nor by any commisioned messenger of God.” (Hukumat-i-Islami, p.52-53)

“The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to the angels, prophets, and messengers.” (Al-Kulaini, Al-Kafi, p.255) Another narration in Al-Kafi says: “Signs of the prophets are possessed by the Imams.” (Al-Kafi, p.231)

In the book titled “Peshawar Nights”, the Shia scholar Shirazi mentions the following about Ibrahim:

Allah intended to make his rank more exalted. Since prophethood and the title of Khalil (friend) did not apparently rank a higher rank, the office of Imamate was the only office of a higher order to which even a Prophet of Allah could be entrusted…That Ali attained the rank of prophethood can be proven by the reference to the Hadith of Manzila (Tradition Regarding Ranks) Source: Peshawar Nights, http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/4.2.html

This same view is held by Allamah Majlisi, who even admits that the Shia “might as well” call their Imams to be Prophets: On the whole, after admission of the fact that the Imams are not prophets, we are bound to acknowledge the fact that they are superior to all Prophets and Awsiya (legatees) except our Prophet (salutations and peace upon him and his family). To our knowledge there is no reason not to describe the Imams as Prophets except consideration to the status of the Final Prophet. Our intellect too, cannot perceive a distinction between Nabuwwah (prophethood) and Imamah. Source: Bihar Al-Anwar, Volume 26, p.82

Syed Ali Milani wrote an entire book entitled “The Preference of the Imams over the Prophets (A.S.)” This book is available on the following Shia website: www.shiaweb.org

 

 

Edited by iavswn

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36 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Qur'an 33:62 Such was the Sunna of God for those who have passed on before. You will find that there is no substitute for the Sunna of God.

Arabic: سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِن قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَن تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيلًا - 33:62

Qur'an 46:9 Say (O Muhammad), I am not a novelty among other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I follow nothing other than what is revealed to me (Quran). I am no more than a clear warner.

Arabic: قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنَ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا أَدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ وَمَا أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ - 46:9

Qur'an 5:48 And We brought down to you the Book, truthfully, confirming what is present of the Scripture, and superseding it. So rule among them in accordance with what God has brought down, and do not follow their desires in place of what has come to you of the truth.

Arabic: وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ ۖ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَا آتَاكُمْ ۖ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ ۚ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ - 5:48

 

Indeed, what you say is truth and this is what Prophet PBUHHP mentioned from Quran: "To follow Imamate after Prophethood". Quran says: "Obey Allah, Obey the Messenger and those with authority among you". And our Sunni brothers do have regard for those people who disobeyed Prophet PBUHHP and left his funeral and did politics in Saqifah but those have no regard for Prophet on death bed. This was not the sunnah of Prophets to leave away Deen and run after Duniya. :) 

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3 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Shia Ulema believe that their twelve Infallible Imams are superior to all of the Prophets, except Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم). They argue that Prophet Muhammad (صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم) is superior to the twelve Imams not because he was a Prophet, but rather “since Prophet Muhammad was an Imam during his time as well.” (Shia Encyclopedia, “Imamat vs. Prophethood,” Part 1, http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter6b/8.html)

What wrong is in it ?

Was not Imamate given to Prophet Ibrahim a.s while he a.s was already a prophet ? God gave him Imamate as reward and Prophet PBUHHP is also Imam al Anbiya. So, what do you say about this ? This is not a thing without evidence. There is ample proof to prove that. 

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Wonderful, and suddenly we went to off topic.

Quote

The Shia made the Imams greater than the prophets. NOT me!!!

Or perhaps God made the Imams with higher status than other prophets, something that seems a very problematic to you.

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10 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Allah had choosed the religion of Islam for humanity and not Shia or sunni. So who so ever is true muslim is what Allah demanded from us. 

Agreed.

Qur'an 3:85 If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from

Arabic: وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ - 3:85

Qur'an 3:19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom.

Arabic: إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۗ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ - 3:19

 

Edited by iavswn

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6 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Ayatollah Khomeini declared: “And an essential tenet of our Shi’ite sect is that the Imams have a position which is reached neither by the angels nor by any commisioned messenger of God.” (Hukumat-i-Islami, p.52-53)

Note that Ayotullah's believe that Prophet PBUHHP is Imam al Anbiya and 12 Imams are after him. 

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Allah had choosed the religion of Islam for humanity and not Shia or sunni. So who so ever is true muslim is what Allah demanded from us. 

What is a Shia and Sunni, not an Islam? So do you agree Sunnis and Shias actually are not following the religion of Islam? What is an true muslim?

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6 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

What wrong is in it ?

Was not Imamate given to Prophet Ibrahim a.s while he a.s was already a prophet ? God gave him Imamate as reward and Prophet PBUHHP is also Imam al Anbiya. So, what do you say about this ? This is not a thing without evidence. There is ample proof to prove that. 

You are kidding right? Only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى can make one a prophet. 

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2 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Agreed.

Qur'an 3:85 If anyone seeks a religion other than [islam] complete devotion to God, it will not be accepted from

Arabic: وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الْإِسْلَامِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَاسِرِينَ - 3:85

Qur'an 3:19 The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom.

Arabic: إِنَّ الدِّينَ عِندَ اللَّهِ الْإِسْلَامُ ۗ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَهُمُ الْعِلْمُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ ۗ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِآيَاتِ اللَّهِ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ سَرِيعُ الْحِسَابِ - 3:19

 

So it is not important what people label or what label one want. 

What matters how much one follows and believes what Allah want. And Allah clearly warns us to be do not make sects. So we should take this warning of Allah lightly. But in reality we are adamant to make sects andsubsects. May Allah guide us

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7 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

What is a Shia and Sunni, not an Islam? So do you agree Sunnis and Shias actually are not following the religion of Islam? What is an true muslim?

Was prophet Muhammad (SAAW) Shia or Sunni? :D

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Just now, iavswn said:

You are kidding right? Only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى can make one a prophet. 

Has not Allah said in Surah Najam: "What your Prophet says is but a revelation revealed". So, if Prophet PBUHHP made Imam Ali a.s Imam and also told about 12 Imams in Qureish, it is Allah's words.

As for Prophets, I did not said anything that there is Prophet after Last Prophet PBUHHP, What I said that Imamate of 12 Imams is a great status. Prophet Ibrahim a.s was given status of Imam of coming nations as reward while he was Prophet. And Prophet PBUHHP already hold that status to be Imam of the Prophets. The institution of 12 Imams was established by Allah AWJ through Prophet PBUHHP, they are not Prophets but have higher status than Prophets except Prophet PBUHHP. 

I hope you get it. 

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4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Has not Allah said in Surah Najam: "What your Prophet says is but a revelation revealed". So, if Prophet PBUHHP made Imam Ali a.s Imam and also told about 12 Imams in Qureish, it is Allah's words.

As for Prophets, I did not said anything that there is Prophet after Last Prophet PBUHHP, What I said that Imamate of 12 Imams is a great status. Prophet Ibrahim a.s was given status of Imam of coming nations as reward while he was Prophet. And Prophet PBUHHP already hold that status to be Imam of the Prophets. The institution of 12 Imams was established by Allah AWJ through Prophet PBUHHP, they are not Prophets but have higher status than Prophets except Prophet PBUHHP. 

I hope you get it. 

Red Herring.

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Just now, iavswn said:

Was prophet Muhammad (SAAW) Shia or Sunni? :D

He was both. Shia is word used by Prophet Ibrahim, so he was a Shia, and he believed the path of Allah and treaded upon it. Sunnah means path to be followed. So, he was both. And those to whom you call Sunni, in my sight, they did not followed sunnah of Prophet PBUHHP. 

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17 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

Only Allah (Exalted, High) can make one Imam too.

What does this have to do with divisions? :confused:

Edited by iavswn

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Bunch of Red Herrings in this discussion. :(

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18 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I am not here to convince you, my job is just to respond to your questions by answer which may be misleading for you but who knows someone who reads may understands it. 

It's not unreasonable to assume the response should be related, on topic.  

Edited by iavswn

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18 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Was prophet Muhammad (SAAW) Shia or Sunni? :D

A Shi'ah is term that Prophet Muhammad (saws) reffed Imam Ali (as) and his followers, the ones that will be in correct path after his departure. 

Quote

What does this have to do with divisions? :confused:

And what your statement "Only Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى can make one a prophet. " have to do with divisions? My statement was just an answer to your question that have nothing to do with the topic.

Quote

Bunch of Red Herrings in this discussion. :(

And you are the one who started the red herring:

 

Edited by Dhulfikar

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Just now, iavswn said:

Response should be related, on topic.  NOT an attempt to divert me and others away.

Why would I divert you ? will your going in heaven or hell affect me ? if it would have, I would have surely tried to divert you. 

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11 minutes ago, iavswn said:

It's not unreasonable to assume the response should be related, on topic.  

I already gave you the response, now if you have anything other to say about it please go on. But if you try to divert us to somewhere, you will have that response bro. 

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32 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

He was both. Shia is word used by Prophet Ibrahim, so he was a Shia, and he believed the path of Allah and treaded upon it. Sunnah means path to be followed. So, he was both. And those to whom you call Sunni, in my sight, they did not followed sunnah of Prophet PBUHHP. 

In a different context and you know that.

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