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How can a Muslim be Shia or Sunni when Allah has prohibited the creation of divisions? 

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Arabic: وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 3:103

Note: Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

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5 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

A muslim that is not Shia or Sunni is also a Sect. There are sects in Islam and only one is the correct one. We should hold on truth and should not be divided.

Stating that only one is correct is  a cop-out because it ignores reality. 

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14 minutes ago, iavswn said:

How can a Muslim be Shia or Sunni when Allah has prohibited the creation of divisions? 

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Arabic: وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 3:103

Note: Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

shias are true sunnis. They follow the true sunnah of the Prophet saaw. Do you read hadith?

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19 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

It has been created and it is there to stay. Only one sect is going to Jannah. That's clear hadith. 

19 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers.

Just go and check tafseer of this verse and tell me who is the rope of Allah, I'll hold onto it and won't get divided with one who holds it. 

Edited by Sirius_Bright

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17 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

What reality it ignores? There is only one correct path in Islam, and it is Sirat al-Mustaqim.

"Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created."

Edited by iavswn

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Just now, iavswn said:

The one I originally provided. "Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created."

What if one groups follow fully the true path, can you call him a division from the truth path?

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31 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah

True.

And the rope of Allah is the Quran and Prophet Mohammad and his Progeny.

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8 minutes ago, iavswn said:

"Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created."

Do sunni follow the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUHHP which was to admit that Ali is the Mola after Prophet PBUHHP ? While Shias believe that and Sunni brothers do not and rather consider Ali a.s to be after Uthman, but Prophet PBUHHP called Ali a.s to be next to him. So, tell me, who is real sunni and who is keeping up with the Sunnah ? 

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41 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

It has been created and it is there to stay. Only one sect is going to Jannah. That's clear hadith. 

Just go and check tafseer of this verse and tell me who is the rope of Allah, I'll hold onto it and won't get divided with one who holds it. 

"103a The Arabic word for covenant is habl, which means primarily a rope or a cord, and hence a bond of union, a bond of love and friendship, a covenant or a compact by which  one becomes responsible for the safety of a person or a thing (LL). By habl-Allah, or the covenant of Allah, is meant the Qur'an, a significance supported by two sayings of the Prophet, according to one which  the Book of Allah is the covenant (or Rope) of Allah, and according to the other the Qur'an is the firm covenant (or rope) of Allah (AH). All Muslims, we are here told, should be united in holding fast to the Qur'an and carrying its meaning to other people." (The Holy Qur'an with commentary, exegesis by Maulana Muhammad Ali,  ISBN 0-913321-01-X)

"429 The simile is that of people struggling  in deep water, to whom a benevolent Providence stretches out a strong and unbreakable rope of rescue. If all hold fast to it together, their mutual support adds to the chance of their safety" (The meaning of the Holy Qur'an, exegesis by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, ISBN 0-915957-11-6)

 

 

 

Edited by iavswn

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25 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Do sunni follow the Sunnah of the Prophet PBUHHP which was to admit that Ali is the Mola after Prophet PBUHHP ? While Shias believe that and Sunni brothers do not and rather consider Ali a.s to be after Uthman, but Prophet PBUHHP called Ali a.s to be next to him. So, tell me, who is real sunni and who is keeping up with the Sunnah ? 

Qur'an 33:62 Such was the Sunna of God for those who have passed on before. You will find that there is no substitute for the Sunna of God.

Arabic: سُنَّةَ اللَّهِ فِي الَّذِينَ خَلَوْا مِن قَبْلُ ۖ وَلَن تَجِدَ لِسُنَّةِ اللَّهِ تَبْدِيلًا - 33:62

Qur'an 46:9 Say (O Muhammad), I am not a novelty among other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I follow nothing other than what is revealed to me (Quran). I am no more than a clear warner.

Arabic: قُلْ مَا كُنتُ بِدْعًا مِّنَ الرُّسُلِ وَمَا أَدْرِي مَا يُفْعَلُ بِي وَلَا بِكُمْ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ وَمَا أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ مُّبِينٌ - 46:9

Qur'an 5:48 And We brought down to you the Book, truthfully, confirming what is present of the Scripture, and superseding it. So rule among them in accordance with what God has brought down, and do not follow their desires in place of what has come to you of the truth.

Arabic: وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ مِنَ الْكِتَابِ وَمُهَيْمِنًا عَلَيْهِ ۖ فَاحْكُم بَيْنَهُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاءَهُمْ عَمَّا جَاءَكَ مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا ۚ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً وَلَٰكِن لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِي مَا آتَاكُمْ ۖ فَاسْتَبِقُوا الْخَيْرَاتِ ۚ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرْجِعُكُمْ جَمِيعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ - 5:48

 

Edited by iavswn

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36 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

True.

And the rope of Allah is the Quran and Prophet Mohammad and his Progeny.

If the Qur'an unites us as Muslims then why is everyone here in this thread trying to find ways around it?

Edited by iavswn

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1 minute ago, iavswn said:

If the Qur'an unites us as Muslims then why is everyone here in this thread trying to find ways around it?

We are not trying to find ways around it.

It is just the fact that sects were created about 1400-1350 years ago.

Imam Ali tried to unite the Muslims but they refused.

We support unity.But when you find that Hadiths of Imams in sunni books and yet they don't follow it.

It is present in Sahih Bukhari.

The sunnah is following the prophet.

And it is what we do is follow it when there are things not mentioned in the Quran clearly.

The sunnah told us to follow Ahlul-bayt.

Ahlul-Bayt are the ones who transmitted the sunnah and made it clean from any intervention.

So now following the Prophet is making sects ?

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7 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

We are not trying to find ways around it.

No one here has addressed that Ayat in any valid way or the reality that divisions do in fact exist.

 

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14 minutes ago, iavswn said:

"103a The Arabic word for covenant is habl, which means primarily a rope or a cord, and hence a bond of union, a bond of love and friendship, a covenant or a compact by which  one becomes responsible for the safety of a person or a thing (LL). By habl-Allah, or the covenant of Allah, is meant the Qur'an, a significance supported by two sayings of the Prophet, according to one which  the Book of Allah is the covenant (or Rope) of Allah, and according to the other the Qur'an is the firm covenant (or rope) of Allah (AH). All Muslims, we are here told, should be united in holding fast to the Qur'an and carrying its meaning to other people." (The Holy Qur'an with commentary, exegesis by Maulana Muhammad Ali,  ISBN 0-913321-01-X)

"429 The simile is that of people struggling  in deep water, to whom a benevolent Providence stretches out a strong and unbreakable rope of rescue. If all hold fast to it together, their mutual support adds to the chance of their safety" (The meaning of the Holy Qur'an, exegesis by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, ISBN 0-915957-11-6)

 

 

 

We agree that rope of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is Qur'an, but for us Imams are the ones that refers as walking and talking Qur'an, the ones that guide us to this rope and guide us to hold firmly, the ones that do not separate from it's rope, those that we should be followed. Everyone says hold on Qur'an, but which group is the right one that hold to the rope firmly and will not fall? What I mean is that every group hold it's Qur'an and interpret by what they seems is correct interpretation.

Imam Zayn al-`Abideen [a] said, "An Imam from us is infallible. Infallibility is not something recognizable in the apparent form of a person. Rather, it is proven by [his] designation [by his predecessors]."

A person asked, "O son of the Messenger of Allah! What is an infallible person (ma`sum)?"

The Imam replied, "He is one who has held onto (mu`tasim) the Rope of Allah, and the Rope of Allah is the Quran. He does not separate from it until the Day of Resurrection. The Imam guides to the Quran, and the Quran guides to the Imam, and that is the saying of Allah, 'Surely, this Qur'an guides to that which is most suitable.' (17:9)"

حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عبد الرحمن المقري، قال: حدثنا أبو عمرو محمد بن جعفر المقري الجرجاني، قال،: حدثنا أبو بكر محمد بن الحسن الموصلي ببغداد، قال: حدثنا محمد ابن عاصم الطريفي، قال: حدثنا عباس بن يزيد بن الحسن الكحال مولى زيد بن علي، قال: حدثني أبي، قال: حدثني موسى بن جعفر، عن أبيه جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه محمد بن علي، عن أبيه علي بن الحسين عليهم السلام، قال: الامام منا لا يكون إلا معصوما وليست العصمة في ظاهر الخلقة فيعرف بها ولذلك لا يكون إلا منصوصا. فقيل له: يا ابن رسول الله فما معنى المعصوم ؟ فقال: هو المعتصم بحبل الله (2)، وحبل الله هو القرآن لا يفترقان إلى يوم القيامة، والامام يهدي إلى القرآن والقرآن يهدي إلى الامام، وذلك قول الله عزوجل: " إن هذا القرآن يهدي للتي هي أقوم (3) ".

(Ma`ani al-Akhbar, page 132)

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3 minutes ago, iavswn said:

No one here has addressed that Ayat in any valid way or the reality that divisions do in fact exist.

 

Yes the ayats are valid as above brother said.

But just adressing that Shia would have been the true rope of Allah cause it is following the true sunnah and Quran of the Prophet.

Edited by Unforgiven

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7 minutes ago, Dhulfikar said:

We agree that rope of Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى is Qur'an, but for us Imams are the ones that refers as walking and talking Qur'an, the ones that guide us to this rope and guide us to hold firmly, the ones that do not separate from it's rope, those that we should be followed. Everyone says hold on Qur'an, but which group is the right one that hold to the rope firmly and will not fall? What I mean is that every group hold it's Qur'an and interpret by what they seems is correct interpretation.

Imam Zayn al-`Abideen [a] said, "An Imam from us is infallible. Infallibility is not something recognizable in the apparent form of a person. Rather, it is proven by [his] designation [by his predecessors]."

A person asked, "O son of the Messenger of Allah! What is an infallible person (ma`sum)?"

The Imam replied, "He is one who has held onto (mu`tasim) the Rope of Allah, and the Rope of Allah is the Quran. He does not separate from it until the Day of Resurrection. The Imam guides to the Quran, and the Quran guides to the Imam, and that is the saying of Allah, 'Surely, this Qur'an guides to that which is most suitable.' (17:9)"

حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عبد الرحمن المقري، قال: حدثنا أبو عمرو محمد بن جعفر المقري الجرجاني، قال،: حدثنا أبو بكر محمد بن الحسن الموصلي ببغداد، قال: حدثنا محمد ابن عاصم الطريفي، قال: حدثنا عباس بن يزيد بن الحسن الكحال مولى زيد بن علي، قال: حدثني أبي، قال: حدثني موسى بن جعفر، عن أبيه جعفر بن محمد، عن أبيه محمد بن علي، عن أبيه علي بن الحسين عليهم السلام، قال: الامام منا لا يكون إلا معصوما وليست العصمة في ظاهر الخلقة فيعرف بها ولذلك لا يكون إلا منصوصا. فقيل له: يا ابن رسول الله فما معنى المعصوم ؟ فقال: هو المعتصم بحبل الله (2)، وحبل الله هو القرآن لا يفترقان إلى يوم القيامة، والامام يهدي إلى القرآن والقرآن يهدي إلى الامام، وذلك قول الله عزوجل: " إن هذا القرآن يهدي للتي هي أقوم (3) ".

(Ma`ani al-Akhbar, page 132)

 Yes, because in Shia Islam Imams are greater than even the Prophets.

See, 

 

 

Edited by iavswn

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24 minutes ago, iavswn said:

"103a The Arabic word for covenant is habl, which means primarily a rope or a cord, and hence a bond of union, a bond of love and friendship, a covenant or a compact by which  one becomes responsible for the safety of a person or a thing (LL). By habl-Allah, or the covenant of Allah, is meant the Qur'an, a significance supported by two sayings of the Prophet, according to one which  the Book of Allah is the covenant (or Rope) of Allah, and according to the other the Qur'an is the firm covenant (or rope) of Allah (AH). All Muslims, we are here told, should be united in holding fast to the Qur'an and carrying its meaning to other people." (The Holy Qur'an with commentary, exegesis by Maulana Muhammad Ali,  ISBN 0-913321-01-X)

"429 The simile is that of people struggling  in deep water, to whom a benevolent Providence stretches out a strong and unbreakable rope of rescue. If all hold fast to it together, their mutual support adds to the chance of their safety" (The meaning of the Holy Qur'an, exegesis by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, ISBN 0-915957-11-6)

 

 

 

Nope. Why not ask Ahlulbait (ams) for it's exegesis, for they are the bearers of Quran.

In all the narrative tafseers, the exegesis of this ayah as narrated by Holy Prophet (sawa) and Aimma (ams) should be pondered upon especially the term Hablillah (Rope of Allah).

 

1. From Jabir, (It has been narrated) from Abu Ja'far (asws) having said: 'The Progeny of Muhammad (a.s.), they are the rope of Allah (Hablillah) which He has commanded to the holding fast to, so Allah said [3:103] And hold fast by the rope of Allah all together and be not disunited.

 

(Tafseer e Ayyashi 123/194:1)

 

2. Ali Bin Ibrahim said, ‘And in a report of Abu Al Jaroud,

 

(It has been narrated) from Abu Ja’farasws regarding the Words of the High [3:103] and be not disunited, said: ‘Allah Blessed and High Knew that they would be disuniting after their Prophet and would be differing, so He Prohibited them from the disunity just as He had Forbidden the ones who were before them. So Allah Commanded them to be united upon the Wilayah of the Progeny of Muhammad, and not separate’ .

 

(Tafseer e Qummi 108:1)

 

3. Ibn Shehr Ashub, from Muhammad Bin Al Al Anbary, by his chain,  

(It has been narrated) from the Prophet who was asked by a Bedouin about this Verse [3:103] And hold fast by the Rope of Allah all together. So RasoolAllah grabbed the hand of Ali and said: ‘O Bedouin! This is a Rope of Allah so hold fast by him’. So the Bedouin walked from behind Ali and embraced him, and said: ‘Our Allah! I hereby testify that I have held fast to Your Rope’. So Rasool-Allah said: ‘Whoever wishes to look at a man from the people of the Paradise should look at this one’.

 

(Al-Manaqib 76:3)

 

4. Muhammad Bin Ibrahim Al No’mani – well known as Ibn Zaynab – from Muhammad Bin Abdullah Bin Moamar Al Tabrany at Tabariyya in the year three hundred and thirty three – and this man used to befriend Yazeedla Bin Muawiya and was from the Hostile ones (Naasibi), from his father, from Ali Bin Hashim, and Al Hassan Bin Al Sakan, from Abdula Razaq Bin Hamaam, from his father, from Mayna’a a slave of Abdul Rahman Bin Awf,

 

(It has been narrated) from Jabir Bin Abdullah Al-Ansary who said, ‘The people of Yemen sent a delegation to Rasool-Allah, so they said, ‘O Rasool-Allah, and who is your successor?’ So he said: ‘He is the one whom Allah has Commanded everyone to hold fast unto, so Allah Mighty and Majestic Said [3:103] And hold fast by the Rope of Allah all together and be not disunited’.

 

So they said, ‘O Rasool-Allah! Explain to us what this Rope is?’ So he said: ‘[3:112] except by a Rope with Allah and a Rope with the people. So the Rope from Allah is His Book, and the Rope from the people is my successor’......

 

(Al-Ghaibah 1:39)

 

5. Al Syed Al Razy in Al Khasaais, from Haroun Bin Musa, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Bin Amaar, from Abu Musa Isa Al Zareer Al Bajaly,  

((It has been narrated) from Abu Al-Hassan in a sermon – in a sermon which Rasool-Allah sermoned during his illness, and in the Hadeeth: So Rasool Allah said: ‘Call my uncle for me’ – meaning Al-Abbas. So they called him. So he and Ali carried him until they brought him out. So he Prayed with the people and he was seated. Then they carried him and placed him upon the Pulpit after that......

 

... he said: ‘O group of the Emigrants and the Helpers! And the one who is present on this day and this hour, from the human beings and the Jinn, those present should make it reach to the absentees that indeed I have left behind among you all the Book of Allah in which is the Noor (Light) and the Guidance, and the explanation of what Allah Blessed and High has Obligated from the things, an Argument of Allah to you, and my argument and of my Guardian. And I leave behind among you the great flag, the flag of the Religion and the Noor of Guidance and its illumination, and he is Ali Bin Abu Talib. Indeed, he is the Rope of Allah [3:103] And hold fast by the Rope of Allah all together and be not disunited, and remember the Favour of Allah on you when you were enemies, then He United your hearts so by His Favour you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a pit of the fire, then He Saved you from it, thus does Allah Clarify to you His Signs that you may be rightly Guided...

(Khasais Ameerul Momeneen: 74)

 

5 narrations provided and all says hold fast to the rope of Allah (Hablillah) meaning Ali and Aal e Ali (peace be upon them all). If everytime you present this ayat for 'unity with sunnis' then this ayat goes against your purpose. Instead, the tafseer clearly indicates to be united solely on the basis of wilayat e Ali (a.s.) and his progeny (a.s.) meaning 'unity with Shias'.

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12 minutes ago, iavswn said:

 Yes, because in Shia Islam Imams are greater than even the Prophets.

See, 

 

 

Greater? Are you questioning God will and His favors for others, if He gives other more than others? Also how greatness over prophets have to do with my post, it seems that you have difficulty for Imamate.

Edited by Dhulfikar

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5 minutes ago, Sirius_Bright said:

Nope. Why not ask Ahlulbait (ams) for it's exegesis, for they are the bearers of Quran.

In all the narrative tafseers, the exegesis of this ayah as narrated by Holy Prophet (sawa) and Aimma (ams) should be pondered upon especially the term Hablillah (Rope of Allah).

 

1. From Jabir, (It has been narrated) from Abu Ja'far (asws) having said: 'The Progeny of Muhammad (a.s.), they are the rope of Allah (Hablillah) which He has commanded to the holding fast to, so Allah said [3:103] And hold fast by the rope of Allah all together and be not disunited.

 

(Tafseer e Ayyashi 123/194:1)

 

 

This says virtually the same thing as what I posted, almost word-for-word, so I don't see why you are disagreeing. 

Edited by iavswn

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1 minute ago, iavswn said:

 Yes, because in Shia Islam Imams are greater than even the Prophets.

See, 

 

 

They were,true ;) 

 cause they interpreted the Quran and made jurisprudence schools and books.

They transmit the Hadiths correctly and teach Islam,teach it for the universe,not sent to a specific people example: Bani Israel,'Ad Irm dhat Al-'Imad(of the columns),Al-Hujr, Sabaa etc....

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1 minute ago, iavswn said:

This says virtually the same thing as what I posted, almost word-for-word, so I don't see why you are disagreeing.

What same?

Rope of Allah is Holy Prophet (sawa) and his pure progeny (ams) and Allah has ordered to hold unto them. We shias hold unto 14 masoomeen, sunnis don't. So those who held the rope (i.e. Ahlulbait (ams)) should be united. 

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1 hour ago, iavswn said:

How can a Muslim be Shia or Sunni when Allah has prohibited the creation of divisions? 

Qur'an 3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

Arabic: وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ - 3:103

Note: Shia are not Sunni and Sunni are not Shia so Shia and Sunni are in FACT a division which has been created.

Allah had choosed the religion of Islam for humanity and not Shia or sunni. So who so ever is true muslim is what Allah demanded from us. 

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