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How do you refute Trinity?

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12 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

12. 'And forgive us ours debts as we forgive our debtors' - can the one or two petty debts or no rear worth or significance at all, which might be due to us from others, be ever compared to the innumerable and invaluable bounties we continuously receive from Allah? Can the worthless and insignificant debts of ours imaginably be worthy to ransom against our indebtedness to the infinite benevolence of the All-Merciful Almighty Lord?

13. 'Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil. From Thine is the kingdom, and the power and the  glory for ever. Amen.' - it is Satan who leads man to temptation and it god who can and who does protect man against it. Does god also lead his creatures to sin? Then who is Satan and what is his quality and work ? The very second article of this prayer says 'thy kingdom come ' and now in this article it is asserted saying 'thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory for ever', is this not a self-contradicting statement?

The beauty of a language lies in is the role of metaphor, without which, it is so easy to misunderstand the text.

Let us not forget that without the grace of metaphor, the Quran also becomes vulnerable.

So criticisms such as the ones you raise can easily ricochet back you.

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10 hours ago, beladalrafidan said:

@Son of Placid I had no intent for such a reaction from a fellow brother , Not my intent at all. I have my view and you have your view, all respect due.

All respect due, but when I realize my view might be wrong I usually study some, and if I find my view is wrong, I change it. I'm more interested in the actual truth than my truth.

If you thought debt meant monetary then your view is obviously wrong. If you thought Jesus would teach people to pray irresponsibly your view must be wrong. It's quite simple.

Can you honestly use these views on the next Christian you meet?

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9 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

All respect due, but when I realize my view might be wrong I usually study some, and if I find my view is wrong, I change it. I'm more interested in the actual truth than my truth.

If you thought debt meant monetary then your view is obviously wrong. If you thought Jesus would teach people to pray irresponsibly your view must be wrong. It's quite simple.

Can you honestly use these views on the next Christian you meet?

I will do so brother :) I will take this on board

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The Father is greater than I (John 14:28)

I myself can do nothing. (John 5:30)

I am son of man(8 times mentioned btw)

Jesus SON OF MARY.

All these are quotes from the bible. 

And then a priest comes and start shouting "Jesus son of God".

ehm

 

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Is there anything that one of the 3 Gods in the concept of trinity can do that the other one cannot?

For example can the father do something that the son cannot, or something that the spirit can but the father cannot?

In that case it is like saying that God is limited in his actions and needs to be divided into 3 entities in order to achieve whatever it is, does that make sense when you at the same time say that God created time and space and everything and everyone in it?

 

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13 hours ago, baqar said:

Very many?

Have the Vatican and Protestant churches accepted the verdict of the very many Christians that you mention.

If they haven't, then the views of your very many Christians holds no significance for me.

Some Christians believe everything written in the Bible really happened. Others dont. As far as I know the largest Christian Church (the Catholic) do not (any longer) demand the Bible to be understood in this fundamental way.  Knowledge and education has increased among Christans, and there are just to many food arguments that Moses is a myth. Cant say the percentage of Christians worldwide that believe Moses was real. I am certain that in Sweden they belong to a small minority. Real or not real, Moses story is a part of religious tradition, and it has a message to us.

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2 hours ago, IbnSina said:

Is there anything that one of the 3 Gods in the concept of trinity can do that the other one cannot?

For example can the father do something that the son cannot, or something that the spirit can but the father cannot?

In that case it is like saying that God is limited in his actions and needs to be divided into 3 entities in order to achieve whatever it is, does that make sense when you at the same time say that God created time and space and everything and everyone in it?

 

I believe the basic argument would have to be, of course not... They are all equal and capable of all things, and on and on, but by the time they are done explaining, they've basically removed the need for three gods. 

Actually, I couldn't see their doctrine when they taught me, and my studies don't support it so I can't really explain it for you.

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10 hours ago, andres said:

Some Christians believe everything written in the Bible really happened. Others dont. As far as I know the largest Christian Church (the Catholic) do not (any longer) demand the Bible to be understood in this fundamental way.  Knowledge and education has increased among Christans, and there are just to many food arguments that Moses is a myth. Cant say the percentage of Christians worldwide that believe Moses was real. I am certain that in Sweden they belong to a small minority. Real or not real, Moses story is a part of religious tradition, and it has a message to us.

The Catholic church has never been big on their congregation reading the Bible anyway. It was late 60's when a translation came out that suited both Catholic and Protestant. My Father, who was a member of the Gideons group, gave my cousin a New testament. His priest made him give it back. 

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On 25/07/2017 at 1:10 AM, King-Ali said:

How do you refute the Doctorine of Trinity? How do you persuade someone following trinity that their religion is not right...

Brother please watch some speakers corner videos. I would refer to a speaker called Mansoor and Hashim. They are both Sunnis but the best thing about it is that it is a discussion between a Muslim and a Christian that has been recorded on camera. Basically a real life a scenario. It's on YouTube 

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On 7/24/2017 at 8:10 PM, Zavon said:

How do you refute the Doctorine of Trinity? How do you persuade someone following trinity that their religion is not right...

Salam Zavon,

Belief in the doctrine of God being Triune requires faith, same as the belief of God existing requires faith.

Because of this, most Christians will not consider the doctrine of the Trinity adequately "refuted" by either Muslims or Atheists or any other group of people seeking to "persuade someone following trinity that their religion is not right."

The reason I believe God is Triune is mostly due to faith, and hence far no Atheist or Muslim has convinced me otherwise, though I understand their reasons for not believing this doctrine.

There are however people who doubt this doctrine for understandable reasons. Many former Christians have apostated due to doubting the doctrine of the Trinity, as well as other issues they have with Christianity.

Personally, I believe Jesus Christ did not say "Thou must believe God is triune" because what is important to God is obedience. Jesus Christ did focus on obeying our Father in Heaven, and that in my opinion is much more important than focusing on the doctrine of the Trinity.

Peace and God bless you

 

 

 

 

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On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:21 PM, Son of Placid said:

The Catholic church has never been big on their congregation reading the Bible anyway. It was late 60's when a translation came out that suited both Catholic and Protestant. My Father, who was a member of the Gideons group, gave my cousin a New testament. His priest made him give it back. 

That translation is the Confraternity Edition.

lt comes from when the American Catholics copyrighted the Bible in 1912. The reason they did was to stop fake bibles.

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On 9/30/2017 at 9:23 PM, hasanhh said:

That translation is the Confraternity Edition.

lt comes from when the American Catholics copyrighted the Bible in 1912. The reason they did was to stop fake bibles.

That translation was the NASB. The first one accepted by Protestants and Catholics.

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On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:49 PM, hasanhh said:

Easy.

Tell them to read their own Gospels and keep track of who says what.

Matthew, Mark, Luke: Gospels say, Satan says, 'son of god'.

Now the two exception points are Matthew's 'Last Suppuer' and one Chr!stian telling has Peter speaking the Words of the Devil -which is why Jesus-a.s. calls Peter a "satan"; OR in another telling, Jesus-a.s. sees the shaytan behind Peter suggesting things and tells the satan assigned to Peter to "get behind me, Satan". None of this occurs in Mark or Luke.

The other exception is the opening of the "Secret Book of Mark" which has two(3?) verses removed to make the "Book of Mark". 

The Book of John is seminarily a "problem" because it mixes in the Words of the Devil quite often into the text. So John contradicts itself within chapters and also across chapters.

The other, holy spook/ghost, ask them what it is.

The verse you are referring to Jesus is reprimanding Peter because he was thinking Earthly when Jesus was speaking spiritually. Jesus was speaking of his death and resurrection. While Peter heard it and said, "Lord this will not happen to you" If a friend of ours was to say he will die, we probably would have acted like Peter, but he did not understand God's plan, that Jesus was SENT as a sacrificial LAMB to fulfill prophecy and die for forgiveness of sin.

That is why Jesus said he was going to die and rise again. Jesus rebuked the spirit of satan who put it in Peters heart to say "You will not die" the same words which are said in your book. 

Jesus had to drink of the cup being God's Sacrificial LAMB. The cup throughout the Bible represents God's wrath, which Jesus had to face on the cross to cover our sins.....The forgiveness of sin through Jesus death is something that Allah is trying to steal from you.. If he steals this from you, your eternity is set and your sins won't be forgiven as long as you don't believe Jesus died and rose again.

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

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On 2017-07-25 at 2:10 AM, Zavon said:

How do you refute the Doctorine of Trinity? How do you persuade someone following trinity that their religion is not right...

God is not just the trinity. Everything that God creates is him and according to the Bible everything that God created has not been destroyed.

Edited by sefket83

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