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18 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You do have a god, its "I". So you are not an Athiest, Its all about 'I".  What I see, What I want, what I want to accept, what I want to imagine, what I feel like doing, I am Free. That's you Religion and Your god is "I"

'I' is not a God, it is just me.

“Know thyself" is an Ancient Greek aphorism, it was inscribed in golden letters at the lintel of the entrance to the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.

The purpose of life becomes visible only through self-knowledge; Self-realization is the by far the most rewarding "quest".

It is the best advice that can be given to man or woman because ultimately to understand oneself is to understand others as well. 

Doubt everything, find your own Light. 

 

20 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

So, since you are here, you do have to abide by Earthly laws(no escaping it)

And you do not? Are you of such ethereal constitution that makes immune to going to the toilette? Are you spared other Earthly Laws? Do you breathe in and out?

 

23 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

And on of the laws is the survival of the fittest. How do you evaluate yourself in this regards? that was my question.

What Darwin meant was 'survival of the best adaptable'

And with regards to evaluating myself, I will repeat my previous post:

I accept my life for what it is: a fleeting moment in time and space. And that is what makes it much more precious than what any God could bestow upon me. 
I am OK with being a meaningless spec in the grand scheme of things; a single transient spark which extinguishes itself after a fleeting moment in this universe. 

And when I cease to be, then oblivion will be my fate. There are no second chances, no "better places" to look forward to, and no "perfection" that will be bestowed to me. I am what I am, and it is my responsibility to ensure that my future and the future of my loved ones, my planet, and my existence are bettered.

All the best.

*
 

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18 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

You do have a god, its "I". So you are not an Athiest, Its all about 'I".  What I see, What I want, what I want to accept, what I want to imagine, what I feel like doing, I am Free. That's you Religion and Your god is "I"

'I' is not a God, it is just me.

“Know thyself" is an Ancient Greek aphorism, it was inscribed in golden letters at the lintel of the entrance to the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.

The purpose of life becomes visible only through self-knowledge; Self-realization is the by far the most rewarding "quest".

It is the best advice that can be given to man or woman because ultimately to understand oneself is to understand others as well. 

Doubt everything, find your own Light. 

 

20 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

So, since you are here, you do have to abide by Earthly laws(no escaping it)

And you do not? Are you of such ethereal constitution that makes immune to going to the toilette? Are you spared other Earthly Laws? Do you breathe in and out?

 

23 minutes ago, S.M.H.A. said:

And on of the laws is the survival of the fittest. How do you evaluate yourself in this regards? that was my question.

What Darwin meant was 'survival of the best adaptable'

And with regards to evaluating myself, I will repeat my previous post:

I accept my life for what it is: a fleeting moment in time and space. And that is what makes it much more precious than what any God could bestow upon me. 
I am OK with being a meaningless spec in the grand scheme of things; a single transient spark which extinguishes itself after a fleeting moment in this universe. 

And when I cease to be, then oblivion will be my fate. There are no second chances, no "better places" to look forward to, and no "perfection" that will be bestowed to me. I am what I am, and it is my responsibility to ensure that my future and the future of my loved ones, my planet, and my existence are bettered.

All the best.

*
 

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3 hours ago, Quisant said:

I think I am the only one here. 

As a child I was never instructed into any belief and I have never taken up a belief. I don’t think there’s a heaven and a hell other than the ones we carry around with us.

I see religion as a force that wishes to extinguish the lights your curiosity switches on.
It aims to imprison and brainwash you into accepting intellectual mediocrity. 
Blind obedience is praised, imagination and questions discouraged.

wslm.

*

 

Believers in Islam believe that Athiests became against religion due to two main reasons. 1) Their own religion was weak or 2) They failed to understand religion. 

I would like to encourage you to read Quran which is always inviting all people towards thoughtfulness. Your view that religion stops from being curious is true only for those religions such as Hinduism and Christianity where if a person belonging to such faith asks their preachers explanation of their beliefs, they just say that accept it and be silent while in Islam, you have been invited to think as much as it is possible. 

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32 minutes ago, Quisant said:

 

But how can something come from nothing ? I don't think DNA is something by "Accident" without any evidence blasted and was a "coincidence",for every effect there is a reason.If there are no humans on this planet there would be no pollution.

 

Who created cars ? Humans

Who created astrolabes ? Humans

Who created the Internet ? Humans

Who created electricity ? Humans

Who created TVs ? Humans

Who created buildings and castles ? Humans

Who created Robots ? Humans

 

Who created Humans ? 

Who created Lions ?

Who created Gazelles ?

Who created Trees ? 

Who created the womb ?

Who created the DNA ?

Who created the sophisticated Human systems such as nervous,respiratory,circulatory,brain,DNA,Bones,Hair,Eyes ?

Who created the tongue ? 

Can you create something like the Brain and the tongue that has life ? The tongue is a piece of flesh,humans talk through it,it wasn't a coincidence.Brains have complex nervous network sending messages with in microseconds and have the capability to store millions of so called computer "files" in a matter of microseconds.When you look at it,it is flesh.

 

Accident ? I think Humans are much more complex beings than electricity and buildings,Humans can't be created from nothingness. 

 

Can you bring a piece of meat and say it "Be" and it is ?

 

Religion is god's revelations to humanity after all the destruction cause by humans.Atheism is mostly backed by self-desires in this very corrupt world.Self desires like s*x,gambling,money,killing etc.. which mostly back up the already so-weak evidence of denial of God.Children are Humans,imagine god as an old person(of course we don't استغفرالله),if the child didn't hear to the old person he/she may fall to death.Like that.

 

If you don't see what's inside you,do you disbelieve in it ?

Can you see Oxygen ? 

Can you see photons of light ?

Can you see the atmosphere above us ?

Can you see the cosmic music of the 11 dimensional hyperspace ? 

Can you see gravity ? 

Can you see your face from your eyes ? If that so then you are not seeing what's beyond your nose.Not everything that can't be seen is something non-exist.Does non-exist actually exist ? No one knows.Humans have to see beyond their noses'.Many things such as god may not be comprehend-able to the human mind.Cause we were created with capabilities.

 

Human desires are eternal life.That's why God promised us of it.

Without religion everything would be chaotic and we would do ALL the desires we want including rap*,gambling etc..

 

How ever God wants to test Humans how long can they survive without achieving their so called "Life Desires" he wants us to see if we are worthy of living in such High place.

I invite you to read the Quran,and also see this http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/  and  http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/  so you know that it is Gods' world.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

'I' is not a God, it is just me.

“Know thyself" is an Ancient Greek aphorism, it was inscribed in golden letters at the lintel of the entrance to the Temple of Apollo at Delphi.

The purpose of life becomes visible only through self-knowledge; Self-realization is the by far the most rewarding "quest".

It is the best advice that can be given to man or woman because ultimately to understand oneself is to understand others as well. 

Doubt everything, find your own Light. 

 

And you do not? Are you of such ethereal constitution that makes immune to going to the toilette? Are you spared other Earthly Laws? Do you breathe in and out?

 

What Darwin meant was 'survival of the best adaptable'

And with regards to evaluating myself, I will repeat my previous post:

I accept my life for what it is: a fleeting moment in time and space. And that is what makes it much more precious than what any God could bestow upon me. 
I am OK with being a meaningless spec in the grand scheme of things; a single transient spark which extinguishes itself after a fleeting moment in this universe. 

And when I cease to be, then oblivion will be my fate. There are no second chances, no "better places" to look forward to, and no "perfection" that will be bestowed to me. I am what I am, and it is my responsibility to ensure that my future and the future of my loved ones, my planet, and my existence are bettered.

All the best.

*
 

Fine,Find yourself.  Just don't pry into the Universe to much. Stick to yourself, what concerns you and your obligations. 

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4 hours ago, Quisant said:

I just don't think there are any Gods or Goddesses.

And If there should be a God that judges us... I have nothing to be ashamed of

I accept my life for what it is: a fleeting moment in time and space. And that is what makes it much more precious than what any God could bestow upon me. 
I am OK with being a meaningless spec in the grand scheme of things; a single transient spark which extinguishes itself after a fleeting moment in this universe. 


 

The lowest common denominator of all things in the universe is physical energy. 
So the best guess at the moment is that physical energy is the first cause.

*

So long as energy is an object of our awareness, just as this or that god is an object of our awareness then energy cannot be the cause of our awareness.  there is one thing you cannot do, and that is to objectify awareness itself.  Therefore awareness is not an object and it isn't not limited by being any particular thing.  Sight (whether through eyes or through mind) cannot grasp awareness but  awareness grasps everything.  Awareness is neither inside anything nor is it outside anything.  It is neither far nor near.  It is not in this time as opposed to that time. It is not in this place as opposed to that place.  It is everywhere and yet nowhere.  It is with you wherever you are.  

 

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6 hours ago, Quisant said:

The lowest common denominator of all things in the universe is physical energy. 
So the best guess at the moment is that physical energy is the first cause.

*

So what about before big bang? what caused big bang?

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11 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

So what about before big bang? what caused big bang?

So, this is a god of the gaps kind of argument.  We are basing our belief of God on our ignorance.  When we do not know the cause of X we say God did it.  No sooner we find the reason or a possible reason for X than God retreats and takes a step back and replaces something else we are ignorant of.  What if there is something that our minds cannot grasp that is not what we understand as "God" that is the cause of the big bang?  Or do we say that simply because our minds cannot grasp such a thing that it is God by default?  Is "God" simply another word for all of what we we are ignorant of?

I sympathize with Quisant and other Atheists when I hear such arguments.  

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6 hours ago, Quisant said:

The lowest common denominator of all things in the universe is physical energy. 
So the best guess at the moment is that physical energy is the first cause.

I don't think such physical energy can such explosion by accident.

Although the Quran confirm the big bang.see it if you want it's everywhere.

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9 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So, this is a god of the gaps kind of argument.  We are basing our belief of God on our ignorance.  When we do not know the cause of X we say God did it.  No sooner we find the reason or a possible reason for X than God retreats and takes a step back and replaces something else we are ignorant of.  What if there is something that our minds cannot grasp that is not what we understand as "God" that is the cause of the big bang?  Or do we say that simply because our minds cannot grasp such a thing that it is God by default?  Is "God" simply another word for all of what we we are ignorant of?

I sympathize with Quisant and other Atheists when I hear such arguments.  

But how can something come from nothing ? I don't think DNA is something by "Accident" without any evidence blasted and was a "coincidence",for every effect there is a reason.If there are no humans on this planet there would be no pollution.

 

Who created cars ? Humans

Who created astrolabes ? Humans

Who created the Internet ? Humans

Who created electricity ? Humans

Who created TVs ? Humans

Who created buildings and castles ? Humans

Who created Robots ? Humans

 

Who created Humans ? 

Who created Lions ?

Who created Gazelles ?

Who created Trees ? 

Who created the womb ?

Who created the DNA ?

Who created the sophisticated Human systems such as nervous,respiratory,circulatory,brain,DNA,Bones,Hair,Eyes ?

Who created the tongue ? 

Can you create something like the Brain and the tongue that has life ? The tongue is a piece of flesh,humans talk through it,it wasn't a coincidence.Brains have complex nervous network sending messages with in microseconds and have the capability to store millions of so called computer "files" in a matter of microseconds.When you look at it,it is flesh.

 

Accident ? I think Humans are much more complex beings than electricity and buildings,Humans can't be created from nothingness. 

 

Can you bring a piece of meat and say it "Be" and it is ?

 

Religion is god's revelations to humanity after all the destruction cause by humans.Atheism is mostly backed by self-desires in this very corrupt world.Self desires like s*x,gambling,money,killing etc.. which mostly back up the already so-weak evidence of denial of God.Children are Humans,imagine god as an old person(of course we don't استغفرالله),if the child didn't hear to the old person he/she may fall to death.Like that.

 

If you don't see what's inside you,do you disbelieve in it ?

Can you see Oxygen ? 

Can you see photons of light ?

Can you see the atmosphere above us ?

Can you see the cosmic music of the 11 dimensional hyperspace ? 

Can you see gravity ? 

Can you see your face from your eyes ? If that so then you are not seeing what's beyond your nose.Not everything that can't be seen is something non-exist.Does non-exist actually exist ? No one knows.Humans have to see beyond their noses'.Many things such as god may not be comprehend-able to the human mind.Cause we were created with capabilities.

 

Human desires are eternal life.That's why God promised us of it.

Without religion everything would be chaotic and we would do ALL the desires we want including rap*,gambling etc..

 

How ever God wants to test Humans how long can they survive without achieving their so called "Life Desires" he wants us to see if we are worthy of living in such High place.

I invite you to read the Quran,and also see this http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/ and  http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/ so you know that it is Gods' world.

 

Edited by Unforgiven

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Just now, Unforgiven said:

I don't think such physical energy can such explosion by accident.

Although the Quran confirm the big bang.see it if you want it's everywhere.

The point Quisant is making is that we don't know what it is.  It could be anything.  Just because we don't know it doesn't mean it is God.  It could be something we have yet to know about energy and its properties.  Maybe we will find out one day that each quantum particle is more sophisticated than we can imagine and that it has all the necessary properties to result in the universe we see.   

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

The point Quisant is making is that we don't know what it is.  It could be anything.  Just because we don't know it doesn't mean it is God.  It could be something we have yet to know about energy and its properties.  Maybe we will find out one day that each quantum particle is more sophisticated than we can imagine and that it has all the necessary properties to result in the universe we see.   

Then why do you consider EVERY reason except God ? As if God hurt you...

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2 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

Then why do you consider EVERY reason except God ? As if God hurt you...

Are you fine with calling God a possibility?

Edited by eThErEaL

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4 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

But how can something come from nothing ? I don't think DNA is something by "Accident" without any evidence blasted and was a "coincidence",for every effect there is a reason.If there are no humans on this planet there would be no pollution.

Where did God come from?  Nothing?  Who Created God?

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As long as I have a book as Quran in my hand yes I do,when I see the DNA and the brain of the human I do,when I see the 11 dimensional hyperspace and the sun big in mass I do.

When I know in the quran it is said the Sun will eventually lose its power I do.

When I know in the quran oxidation is mentioned I do.

When I know that the big bang is mentioned I do.

When I know the historical accurate preservation of the pharaohs body I do.

When I know that wormholes are mentioned I do.

When I know probability is mentioned I do.

When I know the stars turn into black holes I do.

When I know that the lowest land is the dead sea mentioned 1400 I do.

When I know that breast milk comes from the nutritions of the bellies I do.

When I know that in old egyptian kingdom the ruler was called King not a pharaoh I do.

When I know 1 day to god is like 50,000 years in warm holes I do.

When I know angels travel at speed light I do.

when I know Wingless ants are all females I do.

When I know spider webs are made by female spiders I do.

When I know the pyramids top where baked I do.

When I know Age of Earth is 1/3 age of universe I do.

 

More ? 

12 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Where did God come from?  Nothing?  Who Created God?

Where did the huge mass of the multiverse come from ? accidental boom ? Physical energy came from ? 

Edited by Unforgiven

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1 minute ago, Unforgiven said:
Quote

Where did the huge mass of the multiverse come from ? accidental boom ? Physical energy came from ? 

 

So, where did God come from?  accidental boom?  

 

Quote

As long as I have a book as Quran in my hand yes I do (consider God as a possibility).

Then you don't worship a God of the Quran.  The Quran doesn't want you to consider God as a possibility, but as a being in which you have absolutely no doubt.  (La Rayba Fihi).  And as such if your God is a possibility then you are wasting your time believing in him.  

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Yes,I just quoted to you that the Quran have knowledge that couldn't be known less than 70 years ago.

Thank god I am a muslim Shi'a and I worship Allah who created the multiverse.

5 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

So, where did God come from?  accidental boom?

So where did everything come from nothing(physical perspective) ?

At last everything have a cause,and god doesn't has a beginning cause he doesn't need one,he doesn't need an ending too.

no doubt it has "La Rayba Fih hodan lil muttaqin" cause it is indeed alight when atheists start their denial.No errors have been reported in it,thanks God.

Edited by Unforgiven

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30 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

Thank god I am a muslim Shi'a and I worship Allah who created the multiverse.

So where did everything come from nothing(physical perspective) ?

At last everything have a cause,and god doesn't has a beginning cause he doesn't need one,he doesn't need an ending too.

no doubt it has "La Rayba Fih hodan lil muttaqin" cause it is indeed alight when atheists start their denial.No errors have been reported in it,thanks God.

Just as you say that your god doesn't have a cause so also one can say that the universe itself doesn't have a cause.  The Big Bang (if there really is such a thing) happens within a still larger something or "universe" (for lack of a better term) that we cannot explain or comprehend.  Your god is a mere possibility not a necessity.  And this is problematic from the Islamic perspective.  

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5 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Just as you say that your god doesn't have a cause so also one can say that the universe itself doesn't have a cause.  The Big Bang (if there really is such a thing) happens within a still larger something or "universe" (for lack of a better term) that we cannot explain or comprehend.  Your god is a mere possibility not a necessity.  And this is problematic from the Islamic perspective.  

I am sure he exists.Don't think we refer to god as a body,we don't know his nature,so I don't think there is something wrong in calling Allah the energy that cause the big bang and that created us,this energy is something abnormal,paranormal and can't be comprehended by humans' mind.And this God have explained everything in the Quran about the Creation of the Universe or the "Multiverse" cause it has more dimensions in a nutshell.

 

If prophet Mohammad wrote the Quran how did he know the earth was just smoke after the big bang ? 

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3 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

I am sure he exists.Don't think we refer to god as a body,we don't know his nature,so I don't think there is something wrong in calling Allah the energy that cause the big bang and that created us,this energy is something abnormal,paranormal and can't be comprehended by humans' mind.And this God have explained everything in the Quran about the Creation of the Universe or the "Multiverse" cause it has more dimensions in a nutshell.

 

If prophet Mohammad wrote the Quran how did he know the earth was just smoke after the big bang ? 

The earth was just smoke after the Big Bang?  ....?   What does that even mean....

 

if you dont think there is anything wrong with calling god the energy that caused the Big Bang or call god something mysteriously paranormal or some mysterious something we cannot comprehend....  ten that tells us something about  your understanding of God.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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2 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

The earth was just smoke after the Big Bang?  ....?   What does that even mean....

Scientists today are able to observe the formation of stars from a hot gas cloud. Formation from a warm mass of gas also applies to the creation of the universe. The creation of the universe as described in the Qur'an confirms this scientific discovery in the following verse:

He placed firmly embedded mountains on it, towering over it, and blessed it and measured out its nourishment in it, laid out for those who seek it-all in four days. Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly or unwillingly." They both said, "We come willingly." (Qur'an, 41:10-11)

The Arabic word for "smoke" in the above verse is "dukhanun," which describes the hot, cosmic smoke in question. This word in the Qur'an, in pinpoint fashion, describes this smoke very accurately for it is a warm body of gas containing mobile particles connected to solid substances. Here, the Qur'an has employed the most appropriate word from the Arabic language for describing the appearance of this phase of the universe. Let us note that only in the 20th century have scientists discovered that the universe emerged from a hot gas in the form of smoke. 5

The fact that such information about the creation of the universe is given in the Qur'an is nothing short of a miracle of the Qur'an.

 

Hey man maybe tomorrow we continue ? I have to sleep :) 

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The Christian Bible says that in the beginning God said "Let there be light" Genesis 1:3. However this turned out to be false. The universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent) and photons couldn't travel at all. After the Big Bang the universe was primarily Hydrogen, Helium and a tiny bit of Lithium. However when a gas is too hot it becomes ionized (loses the electrons) and becomes opaque (like today's smoke). In the beginning the universe was opaque to visible light (non-transparent). After 380,000 years the universe cooled enough and it became transparent to visible light. For other wavelengths it was opaque for a billion years. So "Let there be light" turned out to be false. However the Quran correctly said that at the beginning it was SMOKE, that is, a hot non-transparent gas:

[Quran 41.11] Then He directed himself to the Heaven when it was SMOKE, and then said to it and to Earth: "Come willingly or by force" they said "We do come willingly"

How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known that it was just smoke after the Big Bang?

The universe was created in a Big Bang 13.7 billion years ago, is still expanding today, and billions of years from now it might recollapse by its own gravity with a Big Crunch (or continue expanding forever, Big Chill). The Quran says that on the first day of creation, God made the heavens and the Earth meshed together, tight and compact (Big Bang), continues to expand it into the universe we know today and at the last day God will recompress it into its original state (Big Crunch). About the first day (Big Bang), Allah says:

[Quran 21.30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?

In the Quran the Heavens expanded from a single point.

Cosmologists just confirmed the existence of "Dark Energy", a mysterious repulsive force that acts in opposite to gravity. As the distance increases, the attractive gravitational force decreases but this mysterious repulsive force increases. This repulsive force is pushing galaxies apart; the greater the distance the greater the repulsion. Scientists today do not know what this "Dark Energy" is, but they know that it is causing the entire universe to expand at an increasing rate.

[Quran 51.47] And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.

How could an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago have known about the expansion of the universe?

There are three possibilities to how the universe could end: Big Crunch (Quran), Big Chill and the Big Rip. NASA recently ruled out the third scenario (No Big Rip; see also: Universe Today). This leaves the universe with only two possible endings: Big Chill or Big Crunch, depending on what this Dark Energy turns out to be. Learn more: Expansion of Universe in Quran. In the Quran God promises to make the Big Crunch:

[Quran 21.104] On the day when We will fold the heaven, like the folder compacts the books, and as We originated the first creation We shall return it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will deliver.

Here God promises to make this Big Crunch however not by gravity but rather by folding the Heavens like a book, that is, by the same mechanism He controls wormholes. This means that this Big Crunch can begin and end in a fraction of a second!

Also after this Big Crunch is over, God promises to recreate those heavens and Earth once more before Judgment Day:

[Quran 14.48] On the day when Earth will be swapped by another Earth and so will be the heavens; and all (creatures) will resurrect before the One Dominant God.

[Quran 36.81] Is He not, who created the heavens and the Earth, capable of creating others like them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Creator. His command, if He wanted a thing, is that He only says to it, "BE" and it becomes! So glorified is He in whose hands is the dominion of all things, and to Him you shall be returned.

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1 minute ago, Unforgiven said:

Scientists today are able to observe the formation of stars from a hot gas cloud. Formation from a warm mass of gas also applies to the creation of the universe. The creation of the universe as described in the Qur'an confirms this scientific discovery in the following verse:

He placed firmly embedded mountains on it, towering over it, and blessed it and measured out its nourishment in it, laid out for those who seek it-all in four days. Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly or unwillingly." They both said, "We come willingly." (Qur'an, 41:10-11)

The Arabic word for "smoke" in the above verse is "dukhanun," which describes the hot, cosmic smoke in question. This word in the Qur'an, in pinpoint fashion, describes this smoke very accurately for it is a warm body of gas containing mobile particles connected to solid substances. Here, the Qur'an has employed the most appropriate word from the Arabic language for describing the appearance of this phase of the universe. Let us note that only in the 20th century have scientists discovered that the universe emerged from a hot gas in the form of smoke. 5

The fact that such information about the creation of the universe is given in the Qur'an is nothing short of a miracle of the Qur'an.

 

Hey man maybe tomorrow we continue ? I have to sleep :) 

Is it "possible" to you that when Imam Mahdi (as) appears he will say that those verses you mentioned don't really point to what modern scientists are saying and that what the verse is pointing to is something else altogether?

 

 

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Just now, eThErEaL said:

Is it "possible" to you that when Imam Mahdi (as) appears he will say that those verses you mentioned don't really point to what modern scientists are saying and that what the verse is pointing to is something else altogether?

 

 

And who actually told you that ? He will tell us to learn MORE sciences...

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2 minutes ago, Unforgiven said:

And who actually told you that ? He will tell us to learn MORE sciences...

?

 

doesn't answer my question

 

yes.  Please get some sleep. 

 

masalama

Edited by eThErEaL

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  • Recent Posts on ShiaChat!

    • Assalam-O-Alaikum !! May Allah Shower his Blessings upon you All.

      I am not a Good English Speaker. So, Please understand my words.

      After doing research on Shia Books, I came to know about Black Clothing which is Makrooh. But why and how? Prophet Muhammad(Peace Be Upon Him) wore Black if I am not wrong. Someone told me Imam Jafar Sadiq prohibited from wearing Black shoes and Black Clothes. Is it true?

      Jazaak Allah Khair.
    • Guest WestSide Story
      Looking for testimonials of being married to someone with different level of practicing Islam (Shia Islam specifically). Moderate woman to not so moderate man. Scenerio: Individually both have compatibility. Looking at them their are no apparent differences. They are happy. Neither drink.  But only one eats halal. One comes from a moderate practicing family and one from a family that has little distinction from western lifestyle and some of the family members drink but live elsewhere. Both individuals have older kids. Can it be a succesful second marriage? 
    • https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjKjJuLttTXAhXNI1AKHbmwCnkQFghbMAk&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.slideshare.net%2Fhuseinmhanna%2Fthe-structure-of-the-universe&usg=AOvVaw1u9CB07-W2u5JxwR-e2HWP http://qfatima.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/tawheed.pdf
    • Feminists typically use terms like "male-dominated culture" so I just wanted to ask if you are a feminist. Also patriarchy is not inherently bad. No matter how you look at it Islam promotes a form of a patriarchal society. So just so you know. However I am not defending the patriarchy of Desi culture. Which is what we are talking about. I am advocating the patriarchy of an Ideal Shia Islamic social society (Yes these have existed historically to various extents).    Also I have seen housewives who can cook a mean paratta and clean well and still they are degraded by not only other women but by men, who tend to gravitate towards free-loving women. They are not appreciated by men as well. I am talking of the West, so I will let others respond on how accurate your statements are about the east. Something tells me you are still projecting and exaggerating.    Again, when you use the word "men" you are referring to a specific type of men. So don't generalize like the OP did. Also modesty is also a concern as well. I have seen this and I can give anecdotes as well to prove this. But let us not play the anecdote game. You would be surprised what western Muslim women, especially in college, get up to. So let us not pretend Muslim women are angels. Remember, for every Muslims man who fornicates there is often times another Muslim woman willing to do it with them. So don't think it is a "guy" issue, it is also a gal issue as well. Also there may be more reasons than the ones you and I listed too as to why an eastern man wants to marry a western woman, but it has everything to do with the guy trying to "make-up" for his guilty conscious and it may manifest in ways such as he thinking he can make it up by having his wife cook and clean (in a weird and twisted way, after all humans are psychologically complex creatures). But your cynical explanation makes it sound is as if Muslimah are dainty little flowers who earn money through a job and when they get married their hubby goes all Hollywood mustache twirling villain on them, or goes Ape on them out of nowhere. This is an incredibly naive and biased analysis and only ends up creating more questions rather than answering them.     Also you just answered your question. Replace men with "cultural Desi men". But you saying "men" is generalizing and I can also name "hundreds of examples" that run counter to yours. As can anyone here. No one here is defending Desi (primarily hindu influenced culture). But you seem to think we are.   On a tangential note Muslims nowadays are willing to blame Islam rather than Hindus for the defiencies that are present in Desi culture. Despite the fact that most of the deleterious behaviors of Desi culture had its origins in ancient Hindu culture that ancient Muslims picked up on. "Purdah" is a famous example of something that quite likely originated amongst  and was widely propagated  by Hindu culture and that Muslims adopted as well but tend to confuse with Islam in incorrect ways (the state of the prophets wives was not the same of a random Muslim woman back then and now,  most scholars agree on this).    Also you went on a tangent about working and being modest. Read my first post on the topic to know that Muslim women ALWAYS worked for 1400+ years in some job or another but had time for their family and household responsibilities. Even Umar Ibn al Khattab of all people hired a woman as "head of market operations ".  And above all else these Muslim women only thought of their job as a job and never let their job or income define them. I don't care if you earn money or not. You are not special or free or liberated or any other adjective you can name. And historically Muslim women used to be doctors way back even in the 1000s but never used to let their career define them. Except that they heal people. But modern day feminism does define a womans worth by her income and somehow she is "not tame" because she earns money. That is laughable. Sister "notme" did a good job of explaining the problem with people like you and your motivations to work. 
    • Sermon 1: Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described…. In this sermon he recalls the creation of Earth and Sky and the creation of Adam and in it he mentions the Hajj Praise is due to Allah whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so, whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate, and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks. https://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-1-praise-due-Allah-whose-worth-cannot-be-described#creation-universe
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