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Caliph Umar: Co-Author of Quran???

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Did you know that Caliph Umar helped co-author the Quran. Here is prove directly from him:

Narrated `Umar (bin Al-Khattab):
My Lord agreed with me in three things: -1. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two rak`at of Tawaf of Ka`ba)". (2.125) -2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed. -3. Once the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) made a united front against the Prophet (ﷺ) and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 8, Hadith 53

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/53

Thank you Caliph Umar for if it wasn't for you our deen wouldn't be complete, our women would be promiscuous and the Prophet's wives would have continued to harass him.

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Did you know that Caliph Umar helped co-author the Quran. Here is prove directly from him:

Narrated `Umar (bin Al-Khattab):
My Lord agreed with me in three things: -1. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two rak`at of Tawaf of Ka`ba)". (2.125) -2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed. -3. Once the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) made a united front against the Prophet (ﷺ) and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 8, Hadith 53

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/53

Thank you Caliph Umar for if it wasn't for you our deen wouldn't be complete, our women would be promiscuous and the Prophet's wives would have continued to harass him.

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Umar was such an intelligent person that he was advising prophet? WOW! i am shocked...

May be thats why prophet said,

Imam Ahmad (17405), at-Tirmidhi (3686) and al-Haakim (4495) narrated via Mishrah ibn Haa ‘aan, from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would be ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab.” The scholars differed concerning this hadith. It was classed as saheeh by al-Haakim, and adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was classed as hasan by at-Tirmidhi and by al-Albaani in Saheeh at-Tirmidhi.

f75134d9d9837498406e7dc8d69dbf52.jpg

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1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!

Umar was such an intelligent person that he was advising prophet? WOW! i am shocked...

May be thats why prophet said,

Imam Ahmad (17405), at-Tirmidhi (3686) and al-Haakim (4495) narrated via Mishrah ibn Haa ‘aan, from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) say: “If there were to be a Prophet after me, it would be ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab.” The scholars differed concerning this hadith. It was classed as saheeh by al-Haakim, and adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was classed as hasan by at-Tirmidhi and by al-Albaani in Saheeh at-Tirmidhi.

f75134d9d9837498406e7dc8d69dbf52.jpg

Brother  - get your facts right.

"My Lord agreed with me" - this means Caliph Umar was advising Allah. And in turn, Allah was advising the Prophet.

He did not say, "I agree with Allah"

Edited by shiaman14

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother  - get your facts right.

"My Lord agreed with me" - this means Caliph Umar was advising Allah. And in turn, Allah was advising the Prophet.

He did not say, "I agree with Allah"

@Ron_Burgundy - the sarcasm was not directed at you brother but the 'advisor'

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1 hour ago, IbnSina said:

And its a "sahih hadith"...

Imagine if sunnis would actually follow their own hadiths and take them serious, they would have all become shias.

Not easy to become shias. Need to change almost everything :

From the habitual act of your daily life such as eating, drinking, sleeping, bathing, walking sitting, ...etc.

To one's way of thinking ...etc.

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8 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Did you know that Caliph Umar helped co-author the Quran. Here is prove directly from him:

Narrated `Umar (bin Al-Khattab):
My Lord agreed with me in three things: -1. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two rak`at of Tawaf of Ka`ba)". (2.125) -2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed. -3. Once the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) made a united front against the Prophet (ﷺ) and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 8, Hadith 53

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/53

Thank you Caliph Umar for if it wasn't for you our deen wouldn't be complete, our women would be promiscuous and the Prophet's wives would have continued to harass him.

Please tell me concerning this narration according to Ahlul Bayt a.s. I had heard of this a long time ago and neglecting it afterward because if it is true, i would reject the prophethood of Muhammad SAW due to Umar's meddling in revelation.

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56 minutes ago, myouvial said:

Please tell me concerning this narration according to Ahlul Bayt a.s. I had heard of this a long time ago and neglecting it afterward because if it is true, i would reject the prophethood of Muhammad SAW due to Umar's meddling in revelation.

Brother, according to the school of the AhlulBayt, this is 100% false of course.

If this was true, I would reject tawheed itself because far be it from Allah to take advice from anyone.

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1 hour ago, myouvial said:

Please tell me concerning this narration according to Ahlul Bayt a.s. I had heard of this a long time ago and neglecting it afterward because if it is true, i would reject the prophethood of Muhammad SAW due to Umar's meddling in revelation.

It goes against logic in general to have a creation advising the creator on right and wrong.

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1 hour ago, myouvial said:

Not easy to become shias. Need to change almost everything :

From the habitual act of your daily life such as eating, drinking, sleeping, bathing, walking sitting, ...etc.

To one's way of thinking ...etc.

Walking, eating, sleeping , etc, dont make you a shia or not a shia.

It could make you a good shia or a lesser good shia but its does not define your faith belonging.

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3 minutes ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother, according to the school of the AhlulBayt, this is 100% false of course.

If this was true, I would reject tawheed itself because far be it from Allah to take advice from anyone.

Indeed, brother, this is false and deceiving with many folds/not straight deceiving.

For example :

If we reject this narration, do we intend to defend Umar by stating it is created by so and so to make Umar as bad/evil person.

If we accept this narration, do we intend to defend Umar by stating it is created by so and so to make Umar as good as Nabi Muhammad SAW.

I hope some educated people here on shiachat can elaborate more by making analysis paper.

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1 minute ago, IbnSina said:

Walking, eating, sleeping , etc, dont make you a shia or not a shia.

It could make you a good shia or a lesser good shia but its does not define your faith belonging.

Yes, brother, the manner on daily life based on Ahlul Bayt a.s. need to be learned by common human.

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On 7/19/2017 at 0:27 PM, shiaman14 said:

Did you know that Caliph Umar helped co-author the Quran. Here is prove directly from him:

Narrated `Umar (bin Al-Khattab):
My Lord agreed with me in three things: -1. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two rak`at of Tawaf of Ka`ba)". (2.125) -2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed. -3. Once the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) made a united front against the Prophet (ﷺ) and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 8, Hadith 53

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/53

Thank you Caliph Umar for if it wasn't for you our deen wouldn't be complete, our women would be promiscuous and the Prophet's wives would have continued to harass him.

Did not the Prophet SAW tell everyone to ask and they will be given clarify while he was still in this life? 

But I don't see it as how you're narrating it to be, unfortunately.   As much as I am critical of Umar, I don't see it in the light you're presenting it.

And I Severely doubt if this Hadith was narrated from Imam 'Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, instead in the exact manner as I'm reading it, that it would be construed as some Shirk accusation party.

There are plenty of verses in the Qur'an revealed from non-infallibles and infallibles alike in terms of "inspiration"  doesn't mean they made the verse or co-authored it.

"My lord agreed with me .." doesn't mean,  "If weren't for me, this wouldn't be a verse".  

This just looks like a hate parade and drawing straws to justify it.

If I was standing around pondering in the time of the Prophet SAW and thought or even voiced aloud a numerous bunch of things I think should be a rule or precedent to adopt, maybe one or two God may in fact be in agreement and make it so, NO one here is thinking of how many things Umar thought of that should be a law, but didn't become law or established in the Qu'ran from Gods word.  Which, is demonstrating to me the one sidedness of all this. 

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Salaam my much respected brother @wmehar2,

I hope you are well.

On 7/19/2017 at 10:50 PM, wmehar2 said:

Did not the Prophet SAW tell everyone to ask and they will be given clarify while he was still in this life? 

But I don't see it as how you're narrating it to be, unfortunately.   As much as I am critical of Umar, I don't see it in the light you're presenting it.

And I Severely doubt if this Hadith was narrated from Imam 'Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, instead in the exact manner as I'm reading it, that it would be construed as some Shirk accusation party.

There are plenty of verses in the Qur'an revealed from non-infallibles and infallibles alike in terms of "inspiration"  doesn't mean they made the verse or co-authored it.

"My lord agreed with me .." doesn't mean,  "If weren't for me, this wouldn't be a verse".  

This just looks like a hate parade and drawing straws to justify it.

If I was standing around pondering in the time of the Prophet SAW and thought or even voiced aloud a numerous bunch of things I think should be a rule or precedent to adopt, maybe one or two God may in fact be in agreement and make it so, 

Like the other brother said, if this was a narration about Ali instead of Umar, we would have been as mushrik, as well as the author of whatever books this would in.

Simple example is how Allama Majlisi is accused of believing in tahreef because he chose to include a hadith about tahreef in his books. As I mentioned before, Shias are always playing defense out of respect otherwise there is enough ammo to go after any personality or belief.

On 7/19/2017 at 10:50 PM, wmehar2 said:

NO one here is thinking of how many things Umar thought of that should be a law, but didn't become law or established in the Qu'ran from Gods word.  Which, is demonstrating to me the one sidedness of all this. 

Perhaps it may be so but I guarantee Imam Ali did not even think about what should be law and what shouldn't. Imam Ali trusted Allah's judgment to decide laws for all of us and gladly accepted all laws as prescribed - No more, no less.

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On 7/19/2017 at 0:27 PM, shiaman14 said:

Did you know that Caliph Umar helped co-author the Quran. Here is prove directly from him:

Narrated `Umar (bin Al-Khattab):
My Lord agreed with me in three things: -1. I said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), I wish we took the station of Abraham as our praying place (for some of our prayers). So came the Divine Inspiration: And take you (people) the station of Abraham as a place of prayer (for some of your prayers e.g. two rak`at of Tawaf of Ka`ba)". (2.125) -2. And as regards the (verse of) the veiling of the women, I said, 'O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! I wish you ordered your wives to cover themselves from the men because good and bad ones talk to them.' So the verse of the veiling of the women was revealed. -3. Once the wives of the Prophet (ﷺ) made a united front against the Prophet (ﷺ) and I said to them, 'It may be if he (the Prophet) divorced you, (all) that his Lord (Allah) will give him instead of you wives better than you.' So this verse (the same as I had said) was revealed." (66.5).
Sahih al-Bukhari
Book 8, Hadith 53

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/8/53

Thank you Caliph Umar for if it wasn't for you our deen wouldn't be complete, our women would be promiscuous and the Prophet's wives would have continued to harass him.

Sulayman ibn Qays reports ‘Ali to have said:

Not a verse of the Qur’an was revealed to the Messenger of God without his reciting and dictating it to me, and without my writing it in my own hand. He taught me its (the Qur’an’s) interpretation and exposition, its nasikh and manasukeh, and its muhkam and mutashabih. He prayed to God Almighty to teach me to comprehend and memorize it. Hence I neither forgot a verse from the Book of God Almighty nor any knowledge that he dictated to me and which I wrote.

I once read Imam Ali had compiled the Qur'an after the prophet died,it was called Mus'haf Ali,any one knows about it or denies it ? reasons ?

Thanks.

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This too:  

Features

Most of the reports and narrations indicate that the Mushaf of Imam 'Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã was ordered according to the order of revelation; but about whether it only contained the text of the Qur'an or it has some extras like the context of revelation, the exegesis of the verses, nasikh and mansukh; there are different reports.[8]

Imam al-Baqir Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: "there's no one who can say that 'I have collected Qur'an as Allah revealed it' unless he is lying. No one preserved and collected Qur'an with the order of revelation except 'Ali b. Abi Talib."[9]

As al-Shahristani says in his book, the Mushaf of Imam 'Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã had exegetic gloss in addition to the text of Qur'an.[10] According to al-Shaykh al-Mufid and some other scholars there was the interpretation of the verses in the Mushaf of Imam 'Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.[11] Also nasikh was before mansukh.[12] And it is said that many of the ambiguous verses, including the names of some of the hypocrites, were explained in the marginal notes. These were the reasons that the Mushaf was not accepted; so Imam 'Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, while verifying the Qur'an collected by the command of 'Uthman, hid his Mushaf.[13]

Most of Shi'a sources believe that after Imam 'Ali (s) the Mushaf is inherited by Imams and now it is in the possession of Imam al-Mahdi Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã.

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17 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Brother  - get your facts right.

"My Lord agreed with me" - this means Caliph Umar was advising Allah. And in turn, Allah was advising the Prophet.

He did not say, "I agree with Allah"

Opps I am sorry Umar was smarter than i thought he was. 

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9 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

Salaam my much respected brother @wmehar2,

I hope you are well.

Like the other brother said, if this was a narration about Ali instead of Umar, we would have been as mushrik, as well as the author of whatever books this would in.

Simple example is how Allama Majlisi is accused of believing in tahreef because he chose to include a hadith about tahreef in his books. As I mentioned before, Shias are always playing defense out of respect otherwise there is enough ammo to go after any personality or belief.

Perhaps it may be so but I guarantee Imam Ali did not even think about what should be law and what shouldn't. Imam Ali trusted Allah's judgment to decide laws for all of us and gladly accepted all laws as prescribed - No more, no less.

Walaimum as Asalaam,  I'm well thank you for asking.    I do hope you're doing well too.

I'm gonna have to disagree, if this Bukhari Hadith had been about Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib AS, I do not think non Shia muslims would use it as a reason to call anyone mushrik.  Perhals I'm naive but i dont see disdain in the Sunni world of Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib AS such that Bukhari would be labeled as a mushrik in this context.  Tahreef is a subject thats apples to organges here, and Sunnis with their belief emphatically reject the Quran changing as i thought the Shia dont as well?   I dont know who Majlisi is, but I would hope the grading of the Hadith of the quran changing was graded untrustworthy or very weak at best in his view.  If not,  then i can see why he was treated as such.  It would shake my belief and many others if the preservation of the Quran is comprised.   Because God said himself He would preserve it,  and A hadith that contradicts that immediately should be categorized as fabricated and a waste of space in any text.  What business does that have then in a book of Hadith other than to cast doubt? I need to understand the Hadith collectors state of mind  and reasoning if theres no clause about authenticity in his book.

I still do not see how "Allah agreed with mean" meaning that he advised God.

If I stood here and looked at the sky and  said, its going to rain it seems.  And it does,  would it not be appropriate to think I guess God saw it so, too.  We must be in agreement.  

If it didn't rain, simply God did not agree. 

And if Umar said God agreed with me in 3 things, I guess the rest of the things God doesn't agree with  him.

To your last bit about Comparing the Imam to Umar,  Umar was at the least inquisitive like any normal being.  I can plainly see many people approaching the Prophet SAW, saying "what will we do about such and such, or man we are starving, "etc.  Whether or not a verse is revealed soon after or way later is independent of them.   We ALL Allah swt revealed bit by bit for a Reason and not all at once.

Imam Ali AS had his trust and patience/faith, I get that.  I can't compare he and the Imam, but I can compare him to any other joe and I dont find offence in them here.

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