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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Sunni/Shia Debate-Mohammed Hijab vs Sayyid Haamid

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2 hours ago, Faruk said:

You quoted my sentence wherein I stated that 'to believe in the Book and the Prophets is equal to obey the Book and the Prophets.

NOT as a part of any statement I was making. 

Edited by iavswn

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4 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

that is not what I asked brother. When the Prophet delivered his message, was he allowed to and supposed to teach and explain the message OR just deliver?

You are NOT my Brother.

Edited by iavswn

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4 hours ago, iavswn said:

This is a straw man fallacy. I never said, "but it is not sufficient for anything else.". 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

 

okay, so using big words without understanding them doesnt mean anything.

You specifically said, you have science and others books but use the Quran as your guide for religion. I merely paraphrased what you said.

I can re-phrase for you.

You are saying "The Quran is only sufficient as a guide for religion". Correct?

Either you will eventually agree that "Hasbona kitaballah" does not work or you will keep trying to switch topics.

1 hour ago, iavswn said:

You are NOT my Brother.

okay brother. Whatever you say brother.

Imam Ali (as) said, "Man is either your brother in faith or your brother in humanity". So if we are not brothers, then you are not human because Imam Ali (as) was not wrong.

Edited by shiaman14

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9 hours ago, iavswn said:

My original statement about the quran alone being sufficient pertains to religion and not science, law, etc.. so there is no contradiction.

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 21:

لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا

Certainly you have in the Apostle of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

(English - Shakir)

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11 hours ago, iavswn said:

1. The sole duty of the messenger is deliverance. That which was being delivered was the Book i.e. Quran.

What do you Testify to- after 'There is no god but The God" is it 'Qur'an is the book of the God". 

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11 hours ago, iavswn said:

1. The sole duty of the messenger is deliverance. That which was being delivered was the Book i.e. Quran.

2. The Qur'an instructs us not to follow other than that which has been sent down.

3. There is only one Sunnah, the Sunnah of Allah.

1. Lets see the duty of messenger:

Surah Al-Jumua, Verse 2:

هُوَ الَّذِي بَعَثَ فِي الْأُمِّيِّينَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ

He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who (1) recites to them His communications and (2) purifies them, and (3) teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error,

(English - Shakir)

2. Uswah of Prophet Muhammad & Prophet Ibrahim, Sirat allathina an'amta alaihim. 

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 21:

لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا

Certainly you have in the Apostle of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Mumtahina, Verse 6:

لَقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِيهِمْ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْغَنِيُّ الْحَمِيدُ

Certainly there is for you in them a good example, for him who fears Allah and the last day; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is the Self-sufficient, the Praised.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Fatiha, Verse 7:

صِرَاطَ الَّذِينَ أَنْعَمْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ

The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

(English - Shakir)

3. Lets see some more sunnat as mentioned in Quran:

Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 38:

قُل لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِن يَنتَهُوا يُغْفَرْ لَهُم مَّا قَدْ سَلَفَ وَإِن يَعُودُوا فَقَدْ مَضَتْ سُنَّتُ الْأَوَّلِينَ

Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.

(English - Shakir)

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 61:

وَمِنْهُمُ الَّذِينَ يُؤْذُونَ النَّبِيَّ وَيَقُولُونَ هُوَ أُذُنٌ قُلْ أُذُنُ خَيْرٍ لَّكُمْ يُؤْمِنُ بِاللَّهِ وَيُؤْمِنُ لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مِنكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ يُؤْذُونَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ

And there are some of them who molest the Prophet and say: He is one who believes every thing that he hears; say: A hearer of good for you (who) believes in Allah and believes the faithful and a mercy for those of you who believe; and (as for) those who molest the Apostle of Allah, they shall have a painful punishment.

(English - Shakir)

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22 hours ago, shiaman14 said:

okay, so using big words without understanding them doesnt mean anything.

You specifically said, you have science and others books but use the Quran as your guide for religion. I merely paraphrased what you said.

I can re-phrase for you.

You are saying "The Quran is only sufficient as a guide for religion". Correct?

Either you will eventually agree that "Hasbona kitaballah" does not work or you will keep trying to switch topics.

okay brother. Whatever you say brother.

Imam Ali (as) said, "Man is either your brother in faith or your brother in humanity". So if we are not brothers, then you are not human because Imam Ali (as) was not wrong.

Muslims do not propagate lies, fabricate facts, and twist other peoples words.

Edited by iavswn

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16 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Surah Al-Ahzab, Verse 21:

لَّقَدْ كَانَ لَكُمْ فِي رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أُسْوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرْجُو اللَّهَ وَالْيَوْمَ الْآخِرَ وَذَكَرَ اللَّهَ كَثِيرًا

Certainly you have in the Apostle of Allah an excellent exemplar for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much.

(English - Shakir)

This is in reference to the Prophet's character. A fact you conveniently omitted.

Edited by iavswn

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16 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

1. Lets see the duty of messenger:

Surah Al-Jumua, Verse 2:

هُوَ الَّذِي بَعَثَ فِي الْأُمِّيِّينَ رَسُولًا مِّنْهُمْ يَتْلُو عَلَيْهِمْ آيَاتِهِ وَيُزَكِّيهِمْ وَيُعَلِّمُهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَإِن كَانُوا مِن قَبْلُ لَفِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ

He it is Who raised among the inhabitants of Mecca an Apostle from among themselves, who (1) recites to them His communications and (2) purifies them, and (3) teaches them the Book and the Wisdom, although they were before certainly in clear error,

(English - Shakir)

Teaching them the book, wisdom from, and reciting it was part of deliverance. If it was not then "deliverance" would not be his "sole duty" and 64:12 and 5:92 would be abrogated.

Edited by iavswn

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7 hours ago, iavswn said:

Muslims do not propagate lies, fabricate facts, and twist other peoples words.

Muslims who have firm belief in their faith don't duck and dive simple questions about their faith.

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18 hours ago, iavswn said:

Teaching them the book, wisdom from, and reciting it was part of deliverance. If it was not then "deliverance" would not be his "sole duty" and 64:12 and 5:92 would be abrogated.

You said this:

"1. The sole duty of the messenger is deliverance. That which was being delivered was the Book i.e. Quran."

As per 62:2 there are 3 duties of Prophet. So "deleverance alone" was not the "sole duty" of Prophet.

Quote:

"2. The Qur'an instructs us not to follow other than that which has been sent down"

Quran do instruct us to follow the uswah of Prophet Muhammad, Sirat of some people as mentioned in Al-Fatiha. Neither the Uswah was sent down nor the sirat. 

Quote:

". There is only one Sunnah, the Sunnah of Allah."

There is sunnah of Prophet, sunnah of evil doers mentioned as "sunnatul awwaleen" in Quran.

 

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