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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Sunni/Shia Debate-Mohammed Hijab vs Sayyid Haamid

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16 hours ago, 145_turbo_16V said:

What was the point about Nahjul Balagha which MH brought forth which would "destroy" our arguments? He didn't state which khutba of Amir Al-Mu'minin it was. I would like to look it up.

I mean the question which they keep on asking is pretty dumb. "Show me where in the Quran there are mention of 12 imams". "Why does Allah make it difficult for us, couldn't he just show it in the Quran about the 12 imams".

Show me where in the Quran there are mention of 5 prayers. Seriously, why do these people to themselves.  Isn;t there a hadith which states:

صـلـّوا كـمـا رأيـتـمـونـي أصـلـّي

Then it's the same for Imamah. 

MH was refering to Imam Ali (as) letter to Muawiya where they were arguing about the legitimacy of Imam Ali's caliphate. Imam Ali said something along the lines of if people and Muawiya accepted the caliphate of Caliphs Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, then there is no reason to reject Imam Ali's caliphate. Imam Ali turned Muawiya's argument him (in a much more eloquent manner than me). That is what MH was refering to.

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On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 4:34 AM, naqviimran said:

Hijab's point about being a Wali is moot because 5.55 clearly states who the Wali are.

But, brother, he could rebut saying that the verse clearly says that believers are also Wali:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

No one pays poor rate while bowing during prayer.

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There are no Sunni and Shia sects in Islam. 

41:33 And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

6:159 Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ 


3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ

The word 'Muslim' is used in the Quran to describe all those who submit and surrender to the will of the One Lord who created the heavens and the earth and is the Master of the Day of Judgment.

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Edited by iavswn

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On 7/17/2017 at 5:27 PM, AliMohammed said:

I am astounded by these sunnis...

Haven't they read their books, in sahih muslim it states that there are 12 leaders after Prophet Muhammad saas... 

They want proof from the Quran for imamah, has it not yet been proven many times...?

Is it not time to go read the second half of thaqalayn, the ahlulbayt (hadith...)

I seriously get a headache every time i listen to these people...

The only book a Muslim needs to read is the Qur'an.

 

Edited by iavswn

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On 7/17/2017 at 6:46 PM, shiaman14 said:

Simple answer is that the name of the Imams are listed under the ayah that clearly states we should pray 2,4,4,3,4 rakat for wajib salah and 17 total. When Hijab finds 17 rakat in the Quran, I will provide 12 names of Imams as well.

I would have asked him do you pay zakat? could you show me quran how much zakat do we need to pay? This guy doesn't understand quran. or we should ask him do you believe that there is 127,000 messengers could show me their names in quran? 

 

Someone please bring niqab for hijab. 

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On 7/17/2017 at 7:18 PM, ali_fatheroforphans said:

What kind of salafi logic does Hijab have? This video has confirmed his arrogance.

Watched 40 minutes of it and all he was saying was "where in quran are 12 Imams mentioned?"

The Shia destroyed Hjab. I am not saying this out of bias, but because Hijab actually had no argument for any of the questions.

 

I watch first 10 mins and i knew that haamid is going to destroy him. 

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18 minutes ago, iavswn said:

The only book a Muslim needs to read is the Qur'an.

 

But they do need someone who could explain it. Quran doesn't explain in detail. for instance Quran says pay zakat but how much? Someone needs to tell us that right?

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1 hour ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

But they do need someone who could explain it. Quran doesn't explain in detail. for instance Quran says pay zakat but how much? Someone needs to tell us that right?

So basically no Muslim can understand the Quran  unless he or she has got a PHD Quranic studies or Islamic studies?

Edited by iavswn

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16 minutes ago, iavswn said:

So basically no Muslim can understand the Quran  unless he or she has got a PHD Quranic studies or Islamic studies?

Quran by itself? without using any other book? Of course you could understand some but not everything. lets say if you quran say offer salah but how man rakats? and how to perform them? 

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16 minutes ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Quran by itself? without using any other book? Of course you could understand some but not everything. lets say if you quran say offer salah but how man rakats? and how to perform them? 

Is not the aqeedah in it but the fiqh needs explanation"?

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3 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

I would have asked him do you pay zakat? could you show me quran how much zakat do we need to pay? This guy doesn't understand quran. or we should ask him do you believe that there is 127,000 messengers could show me their names in quran? 

 

Someone please bring niqab for hijab. 

these morons keep forgetting the Quran is a reference guide.

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^Brother no one is moron here and no one needs to be called by such a name.

Prophet Muhammad (saws) have already stated very clearly of leaving Qur'an and Ahlulbait. The Quran itself is guide and anyone can take it and get guided by it, but to follow all the commands that Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى completely, it is necessary to also hold to Ahlulbait (as).

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2 hours ago, Ron_Burgundy said:

Quran by itself? without using any other book? Of course you could understand some but not everything. lets say if you quran say offer salah but how man rakats? and how to perform them? 

 

54:7 And We have indeed made the Qur'an EASY TO UNDERSTAND AND REMEMBER: then is there any that will receive admonition?

وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ

44:58 We have made it (the Quran) EASY TO UNDERSTAND and in your own tongue so that you may take heed.

فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ 
7:52 We have given them a scripture that is FULLY DETAILED, WITH KNOWLEDGE, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَىٰ عِلْمٍ هُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

10:37 This Quran could not possibly be authored by other than God. It confirms all previous messages, and provides a FULLY DETAILED SCRIPTURE. It is infallible, for it comes from the Lord of the universe.

وَمَا كَانَ هَٰذَا الْقُرْآنُ أَن يُفْتَرَىٰ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ مِن رَّبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ

12:111 In their history, there is a lesson for those who possess intelligence. THIS IS NOT FABRICATED HADITH; this (Quran) confirms all previous scriptures, provides the details of everything, and is a beacon and mercy for those who believe

لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ ۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ

6:115 THE WORD OF YOUR LORD IS COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

وَتَمَّتْ كَلِمَتُ رَبِّكَ صِدْقًا وَعَدْلًا ۚ لَّا مُبَدِّلَ لِكَلِمَاتِهِ ۚ وَهُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ

12:1 These are the signs of THE CLEAR BOOK.

الر ۚ تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ 

6:38 There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. NOTHING HAVE WE OMITTED FROM THE BOOK, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.

وَمَا مِن دَابَّةٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلَا طَائِرٍ يَطِيرُ بِجَنَاحَيْهِ إِلَّا أُمَمٌ أَمْثَالُكُم ۚ مَّا فَرَّطْنَا فِي الْكِتَابِ مِن شَيْءٍ ۚ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ يُحْشَرُونَ

16:89 We have brought the Book down to you providing EXPLANATIONS FOR ALL THINGS plus guidance and mercy, and giving news to the Muslims. 

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ ۖ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَىٰ هَٰؤُلَاءِ ۚ وَنَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ تِبْيَانًا لِّكُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً وَبُشْرَىٰ لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ 

 

Edited by iavswn

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2 hours ago, Faruk said:

Is not the aqeedah in it but the fiqh needs explanation"?

6:114 SHALL I SEEK OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. 

أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا ۚ وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ 

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I have never witnessed that Qur'an can't guide the person to right path. It is the perfect source, and it is the cure to any hearth diseases and guidance to the purification of soul. Just by reading and acting on the Surah fatiha itself and often, it can by Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى mercy to give you light upon light to your hearth, making you more religious and more desirable to remember Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى and yearning love to Him.

Everyone of us know that Prophet Muhammad (saws) accomplish highest spiritual stages and understanding of Qur'an. And he also teaches it to his companions and family, something that only his family know best of what and why he have received from His lord. The reason why he said that I will leave you Quran and Ahlulbait is that by Ahlulbait can lead us to these stages and understanding of Qur'an. To make sure that we follow what is right because our reasoning by time always diverse in understanding of Qur'an. 

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9 minutes ago, iavswn said:

6:114 SHALL I SEEK OTHER THAN GOD AS A SOURCE OF LAW, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt. 

أَفَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْتَغِي حَكَمًا وَهُوَ الَّذِي أَنزَلَ إِلَيْكُمُ الْكِتَابَ مُفَصَّلًا ۚ وَالَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ يَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ مُنَزَّلٌ مِّن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ 

It is sad from a Muslim to make an conclusion that other Muslims are not seeking a laws from God. Is there even a law from different Islamic sects that is not based from Qur'an?

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

It is sad from a Muslim to make an conclusion that other Muslims are not seeking a laws from God. Is there even a law from different Islamic sects that is not based from Qur'an?

Many here have implied the Qur'an is not sufficient. It does not contain everything we need.

Edited by iavswn

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Just now, iavswn said:

There are no Sunni and Shia sects in Islam. 

 

What is an two or more different groups that follow Islam but they have different understanding from each other or they derive different conclusions from Quran? Both of them call themselves Muslims and both of them say they are following the religion of Islam, which is true and you can't deny it. Now does these group not derive their laws from God and Quran? 

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1 hour ago, Dhulfikar said:

 Is there even a law from different Islamic sects that is not based from Qur'an?

Which was the Prophet? Shia or Sunni? 

Edited by iavswn

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1 minute ago, Dhulfikar said:

What is an two or more different groups that follow Islam but they have different understanding from each other or they derive different conclusions from Quran? Both of them call themselves Muslims and both of them say they are following the religion of Islam, which is true and you can't deny it. Now does these group not derive their laws from God and Quran? 

41:33 And who is better in speech than one who invites to Allah and does righteousness and says, "Indeed, I am of the Muslims."

وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ قَوْلًا مِّمَّن دَعَا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا وَقَالَ إِنَّنِي مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

6:159 Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only

to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا لَّسْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ ۚ إِنَّمَا أَمْرُهُمْ إِلَى اللَّهِ ثُمَّ يُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَفْعَلُونَ 


3:103 And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.

وَاعْتَصِمُوا بِحَبْلِ اللَّهِ جَمِيعًا وَلَا تَفَرَّقُوا ۚ وَاذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذْ كُنتُمْ أَعْدَاءً فَأَلَّفَ بَيْنَ قُلُوبِكُمْ فَأَصْبَحْتُم بِنِعْمَتِهِ إِخْوَانًا وَكُنتُمْ عَلَىٰ شَفَا حُفْرَةٍ مِّنَ النَّارِ فَأَنقَذَكُم مِّنْهَا ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ آيَاتِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَهْتَدُونَ

The word 'Muslim' is used in the Quran to describe all those who submit and surrender to the will of the One Lord who created the heavens and the earth and is the Master of the Day of Judgment.

 

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