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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

Sunni/Shia Debate-Mohammed Hijab vs Sayyid Haamid

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So Hijab says that the Shias and Sunnis agree that there should be a Caliph after the Prophet. Hijab also did not answer the simple question that from Adam to Muhammad - Allah has always selected a caliph and not given that responsibility to anyone. In order to escape the debate, Hijab (like all salafis) says that he will believe in Ali and the other 11 Imams if there names are listed in the Quran.

Simple answer is that the name of the Imams are listed under the ayah that clearly states we should pray 2,4,4,3,4 rakat for wajib salah and 17 total. When Hijab finds 17 rakat in the Quran, I will provide 12 names of Imams as well.

The Quran is a reference guide. 4.59 tells us to obey Allah, the Prophet and those in authority. This authority can only come from Allah and the Syed Hameed definitely proved that.

Hijab's point about being a Wali is moot because 5.55 clearly states who the Wali are.

One thing I will say is that usual shia debaters are always on the defensive when we should be on the offensive. As an example, this sunni challenged me to debate the shia belief in tahreef in the Quran. After I pointed out to him how Umar, Uthman and Aisha believed in tahreef, he responded that this discussion was on shia belief and not sunni belief. So I created a thread on Sunni beleif in tahreef. His response, "I am too busy to discuss this subject now". Problem solved.

The question should never be why shias believe in Imams. The question is why do Sunnis believe in Caliphs!

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What kind of salafi logic does Hijab have? This video has confirmed his arrogance.

Watched 40 minutes of it and all he was saying was "where in quran are 12 Imams mentioned?"

The Shia destroyed Hjab. I am not saying this out of bias, but because Hijab actually had no argument for any of the questions.

 

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I am astounded by these sunnis...

Haven't they read their books, in sahih muslim it states that there are 12 leaders after Prophet Muhammad saas... 

They want proof from the Quran for imamah, has it not yet been proven many times...?

Is it not time to go read the second half of thaqalayn, the ahlulbayt (hadith...)

I seriously get a headache every time i listen to these people...

Edited by AliMohammed

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3 hours ago, Hassan- said:

This video is funny, it just shows the hypocrisy of hijab and the Sunnis 

 

Lol. He tried his best to avoid answering the question asked but ultimately he had to confess that there is no verse which proves the Sunni Caliphate. On the contrary it was an innovation in religion that the ummah elected their own leaders.

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This debate is truly hilarious. Br. Hijab is an experienced debater who should know (and have some respect) while debating others. I think that Br. Hijab gets angry too easily and starts interrupting/smirking/laughing to try and get respect from his own audience. It's very sad to see this -- I wish the Sunni community had a much more well-respected figure to debate with than this joke. 

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^He was correct. Imamah and 'Adalah are part of Usool al-Madhhab whereas the other three are part of Usool al-Deen.

Followers of Ahl al-Beit believe in all five, whereas those that only follow the top three, are simply Muslim. According to Sayed Imam al-Khoei.

This thread is also informative about this: 

 

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M. HIjab tries to act too smart when he tries to refute the narration where the Prophet said, "Ali is my Caliph". He said, this menas Ali is the Prophet's leader ie leading him.

Using this same infantile logic, I guess RasoolAllah means the Prophet is Allah's Messenger ie. the Prophet delivers message to Allah.

I say the Prophet is my Rasool; Allah says the Prophet is His rasool. I guess Allah and I have the same prophet then.

Go figure #SunniLogic

 

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This brother Sayyid Hamid did very well in the debate. Hijab was visibly uncomfortable and angry throughout most of it. He said that he finally understood Hamid's argument at around the 36:30 mark, and after that point, things went really downhill for Hijab. At 44:30 or so Hijab just wanted to end/leave the debate because he wanted an ayah right then and there about 12 Imams. The thing is there is no use discussing the rest of the Imams until we establish that `Ali (as) is the wasi of the Messenger (s), and not just for the sake of argument, but after actual conviction in the matter. Shi`as already have to babysit in these debates by using only Sunni sources that modern hyperskeptical Salafis accept as sahih, and clearly, even Hijab is more skeptical in rijal than al-Albani, because he was just weakening things that other Salafis strengthened.

As for Hijab's point that أَنْتَ خَلِيفَتِي " (anta khalifati) means "You (Ali) are my (the Prophet's) leader", the literal translation is actually "You are my vicegerent". Khalifa secondarily means leader, but primarily it is someone who represents the Prophet in the Prophet's absence. The formal title of the Caliph was "Khalifat Rasul Allah", which does not mean that he was the leader of Prophet Muhammad (s), but rather that he is the Prophet's representative and successor who rules in his stead. Furthermore, the hadith clearly says "You are my vicegerent over every believer after me" أَنْتَ خَلِيفَتِي فِي كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ مِنْ بَعْدِي, and the "min ba`di" is addressing what will happen after RasulAllah, and not just during his lifetime.

These debates come and go. Eventually, the Sunni side realizes that giving Shi`as airtime just makes honest people more curious.

 

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

This brother Sayyid Hamid did very well in the debate. Hijab was visibly uncomfortable and angry throughout most of it. He said that he finally understood Hamid's argument at around the 36:30 mark, and after that point, things went really downhill for Hijab. At 44:30 or so Hijab just wanted to end/leave the debate because he wanted an ayah right then and there about 12 Imams. The thing is there is no use discussing the rest of the Imams until we establish that `Ali (as) is the wasi of the Messenger (s), and not just for the sake of argument, but after actual conviction in the matter. Shi`as already have to babysit in these debates by using only Sunni sources that modern hyperskeptical Salafis accept as sahih, and clearly, even Hijab is more skeptical in rijal than al-Albani, because he was just weakening things that other Salafis strengthened.

As for Hijab's point that أَنْتَ خَلِيفَتِي " (anta khalifati) means "You (Ali) are my (the Prophet's) leader", the literal translation is actually "You are my vicegerent". Khalifa secondarily means leader, but primarily it is someone who represents the Prophet in the Prophet's absence. The formal title of the Caliph was "Khalifat Rasul Allah", which does not mean that he was the leader of Prophet Muhammad (s), but rather that he is the Prophet's representative and successor who rules in his stead. Furthermore, the hadith clearly says "You are my vicegerent over every believer after me" أَنْتَ خَلِيفَتِي فِي كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ مِنْ بَعْدِي, and the "min ba`di" is addressing what will happen after RasulAllah, and not just during his lifetime.

These debates come and go. Eventually, the Sunni side realizes that giving Shi`as airtime just makes honest people more curious.

 

It's funny because Hijab also uploaded the debate and the comment section is just a bunch of sunnis saying mashallah he did well, destroyed the shia , etc etc. At one point i was wondering if i watched the same debate. 

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20 minutes ago, repenter said:

It's funny because Hijab also uploaded the debate and the comment section is just a bunch of sunnis saying mashallah he did well, destroyed the shia , etc etc. At one point i was wondering if i watched the same debate. 

YouTube comment sections in general are cancer, and don't really reflect any reality anywhere.

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On 18/07/2017 at 4:16 AM, shiaman14 said:

So Hijab says that the Shias and Sunnis agree that there should be a Caliph after the Prophet. Hijab also did not answer the simple question that from Adam to Muhammad - Allah has always selected a caliph and not given that responsibility to anyone. In order to escape the debate, Hijab (like all salafis) says that he will believe in Ali and the other 11 Imams if there names are listed in the Quran.

Simple answer is that the name of the Imams are listed under the ayah that clearly states we should pray 2,4,4,3,4 rakat for wajib salah and 17 total. When Hijab finds 17 rakat in the Quran, I will provide 12 names of Imams as well.

The Quran is a reference guide. 4.59 tells us to obey Allah, the Prophet and those in authority. This authority can only come from Allah and the Syed Hameed definitely proved that.

Hijab's point about being a Wali is moot because 5.55 clearly states who the Wali are.

One thing I will say is that usual shia debaters are always on the defensive when we should be on the offensive. As an example, this sunni challenged me to debate the shia belief in tahreef in the Quran. After I pointed out to him how Umar, Uthman and Aisha believed in tahreef, he responded that this discussion was on shia belief and not sunni belief. So I created a thread on Sunni beleif in tahreef. His response, "I am too busy to discuss this subject now". Problem solved.

The question should never be why shias believe in Imams. The question is why do Sunnis believe in Caliphs!

Hijab's point about being a Wali is moot because 5.55 clearly states who the Wali are.

But, brother, he could rebut saying that the verse clearly says that believers are also Wali:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

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They believe ALL sahaba are rightful,but the verse in the Quran disproves them.

"And among those around you of the bedouins(Muhajireen) are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah(Ansar). They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment." [Quran 9:101] 

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Bedouins is referred to the Muhajireen who were with the Prophet,and people of Madinah are Ansar.

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7 hours ago, naqviimran said:

Hijab's point about being a Wali is moot because 5.55 clearly states who the Wali are.

But, brother, he could rebut saying that the verse clearly says that believers are also Wali:

[Shakir 5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

point well made. but the ayah does not state all believers. It is very specific to the type of believer.

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:salam:

MachaAllah at the brother Sayed Hamid.

He just spoke, IMO, what I, every sunni should hear before being brainwashed by their tons of contradictory ahadith. I am not saying ours are not full of fallacies, but at least the common ground of both shia and sunni is Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå and Imam Ali. 

I guess from there any muslim is bound to become a shia of Imam Ali.

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What was the point about Nahjul Balagha which MH brought forth which would "destroy" our arguments? He didn't state which khutba of Amir Al-Mu'minin it was. I would like to look it up.

I mean the question which they keep on asking is pretty dumb. "Show me where in the Quran there are mention of 12 imams". "Why does Allah make it difficult for us, couldn't he just show it in the Quran about the 12 imams".

Show me where in the Quran there are mention of 5 prayers. Seriously, why do these people to themselves.  Isn;t there a hadith which states:

صـلـّوا كـمـا رأيـتـمـونـي أصـلـّي

Then it's the same for Imamah. 

Edited by 145_turbo_16V

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