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1 hour ago, hasanhh said:

Anyone who says "s.o.g."

So what you actually is saying is that the Gospels preach the word of the Devil. That may be your opinion. But that is notis what the Quran say. The Quran does not even say that it is correcting the former scriptures. The Quran actually say it confirms the older scriptures. No doubt that the scriptures of Jews and Christians are the ones intended.

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2 hours ago, andres said:

So what you actually is saying is that the Gospels preach the word of the Devil. That may be your opinion. But that is notis what the Quran say. The Quran does not even say that it is correcting the former scriptures. The Quran actually say it confirms the older scriptures. No doubt that the scriptures of Jews and Christians are the ones intended.

You didn't pay attention. "F" for the day.

lt is "the Church", most of them, that preach the Words of the Devil.

Our church taught the obvious: "Satan says, s.o.g." -the Words-of-the-Devil- is a WARNING, not Guidance. Which is also why Paul is totally rejected.

Quran has nothing to do with this.

Edited by hasanhh

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26 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

You didn't pay attention. "F" for the day.

lt is "the Church", most of them, that preach the Words of the Devil.

Our church taught the obvious: "Satan says, s.o.g." -the Words-of-the-Devil- is a WARNING, not Guidance. Which is also why Paul is totally rejected.

Quran has nothing to do with this.

Not sure I understand what you mean. Son of God is Biblical, all Churches preach this because it is a part of the message of Gospels. If it is devilish preaching it is also devilish Gospels. 

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57 minutes ago, andres said:

Not sure I understand what you mean. Son of God is Biblical, all Churches preach this because it is a part of the message of Gospels. If it is devilish preaching it is also devilish Gospels. 

You ain't readin' the responses.

Just because s.o.g. is in the Bible, does not make it a biblical good. lf so, then so will Baal, the sins of the kings in the House of David, and so on.

"Most" as l wrote ain't "all churches preach" as you wrote.

You cannot pretend not to understand something so simple so as to advance the cause of Satanism[Words of the Devil].

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12 hours ago, hasanhh said:

You ain't readin' the responses.

Just because s.o.g. is in the Bible, does not make it a biblical good. lf so, then so will Baal, the sins of the kings in the House of David, and so on.

"Most" as l wrote ain't "all churches preach" as you wrote.

You cannot pretend not to understand something so simple so as to advance the cause of Satanism[Words of the Devil].

The Bible is very clear about which God is good and which is bad. Baal is bad.

The Bible and the Quran agrees that Jesus had no biological father. So when Muhammed say that God has no Son, this could be in agreement with the Bible. Where the Quran disagrees is when it comes to the divinity of Jesus. If this divinity belief is from the Devil, you must include the Bible and all Christians, since we all preach the divinity of Jesus. The divinity of Jesus is fundamental in the Christian Bible. All Christian Churches with no exception teach this. Not "most".

I do understand if Muslims due to this difference between our religions, make the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted by the Devil. (Many fundamental Christians likewise believe the Quran is from the Devil.) However the Quran says it confirms the former scriptures. How can this be if the Quran say Jesus is not divine? Can only think about two possible explanations.

1) The Bible was still uncorrupted when the Quran was written

Or:

2) Muhammed lacked knowledge of the Biblical text.

Edited by andres

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48 minutes ago, andres said:

The Bible is very clear about which God is good and which is bad. Baal is bad.

The Bible and the Quran agrees that Jesus had no biological father. So when Muhammed say that God has no Son, this could be in agreement with the Bible. Where the Quran disagrees is when it comes to the divinity of Jesus. If this divinity belief is from the Devil, you must include the Bible and all Christians, since we all preach the divinity of Jesus. The divinity of Jesus is fundamental in the Christian Bible. All Christian Churches with no exception teach this. Not "most".

I do understand if Muslims due to this difference between our religions, make the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted by the Devil. (Many fundamental Christians likewise believe the Quran is from the Devil.) However the Quran says it confirms the former scriptures. How can this be if the Quran say Jesus is not divine? Can only think about two possible explanations.

1) The Bible was still uncorrupted when the Quran was written

Or:

2) Muhammed lacked knowledge of the Biblical text.

I did not read this whole topic but what do you mean by the divinity of Jesus ?

Also I want to ask , do you believe God is One ? 

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1 hour ago, Mohammed-Mehdi said:

I did not read this whole topic but what do you mean by the divinity of Jesus ?

Also I want to ask , do you believe God is One ? 

I am a protestant. But I do not believe in Trinity. As I read the Gospels, God is one and the boss, Jesus is subordinate but also divine. How this works in detail I do not know, however this does not bother me. I do not believe any human knows the true nature of God or Jesus.

 

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Yarrabi !

3 hours ago, andres said:

The Bible is very clear about which God is good and which is bad. Baal is bad. Then what about the "Words of the Devil" ?

The Bible and the Quran agrees that Jesus had no biological father. OK

 So when Muhammed say that God has no Son, this could be in agreement with the Bible. Quran is revealed and the Prophet-s.a.w.s. said only what was revealed.

 Where the Quran disagrees is when it comes to the divinity of Jesus. OK

 If this divinity belief is from the Devil, you must include the Bible and all Christians,... We don't have to include the Bible as a satanic muttering and not "all" who identify themselves as Christian believe the devil. That the NT has the Words of the Devil is a Warning, not Guidance.

... since we all preach the divinity of Jesus. Not True.

The divinity of Jesus is fundamental in the Christian Bible. ls this the contrived "god on earth" rhetoric?

All Christian Churches with no exception teach this. Not "most". lt is "MOST", not all.

I do understand if Muslims due to this difference between our religions, make the conclusion that the Bible has been corrupted by the Devil. No. Corrupted by church leadership and Hezshaytan.

 (Many fundamental Christians likewise believe the Quran is from the Devil.) That they say because it challenges the Words of the Devil.

However the Quran says it confirms the former scriptures. NO. lt confirms what was revealed to Moses-a.s. 32:23

How can this be if the Quran say Jesus is not divine? John 5:30, lf he is "divine", then why does Jesus reveal he can do nothing of his own? [Translations vary somewhat.]

And if "divine", then why the Jesus' parable of Abraham and Lazaras in Luke 16 and about listening to Moses-a.s.? Could we then say Moses was better than Jesus?

Can only think about two possible explanations.:hahaha:

1) The Bible was still uncorrupted when the Quran was written The "Bible" was compiled in the 4th Century, and as we know from Eusebius there were 10 versions of Matthew accepted for consideration.

Or:

2) Muhammed lacked knowledge of the Biblical text. Absolutely lrreIavant !

 

1 hour ago, andres said:

I am a protestant. But I do not believe in Trinity. Your choice.

 As I read the Gospels, God is one and the boss, Jesus is subordinate but also divine.Then why did Jesus refer to himself as "Son of Man" ?

 How this works in detail I do not know,..."do not know" because you do not study -take this the constructive way...

... however this does not bother me. lf you studied you would know. Like l cited above to start.

I do not believe any human knows the true nature of God...  Agreed.

...or Jesus. A homo sapien with unique birth like the Sunamitress' son KJV 4Kings4:16-17

 

You only make this difficult and convoluted for yourself because you insist on believing what satan says.

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1 hour ago, shiaman14 said:

Salam BR. @MohammadAli1993

If you are reading a tafsir that is emphasizing the number 19, then no doubt you are reading a Quranist tafsir who follow the fake Prophet Rashid Khalifa.

I would advise you to disregard that tafsir.

SalamAlaykum brother, I am aware of Rashid. I don't read any commentary of his but only Shia commentary. 

Edited by MohammadAli1993

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Hi hasanhh

I will try to make it as short as possible

I insist that the Gospels say Jesus is divine and that all Christians believe so. Where do you find Christians that preach Jesus is not divine?

According to Quran 3:3, not only the Torah was revealed to the Israelites: "He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel". (The Torah was actually first written a milennium after the death of Moses)

It is correct that the Christian Bible was compiled in the 4th century. It is also correct that the old copies of the Gospels have differences (not only Matthew). Which copy you read make little or no difference. More interesting is that the writers belong to different churches, with slight differences in theology.  But since the compilation, 3 centuries before the Quran, the Bible has not changed. This rules out possibility 1. I accept that possibility 2 is impossible to you. It is not to me. Would Muhammed not have mentioned that the Bible was false if he had read it?

Why does Jesus call himself "Son of Man"? A being without a biological human father is not likely to be entirely human. Here I must make a guess: Jesus calls himself "son of man", because he this way show solidarity with humans. Maybe.

Why cant Jesus do anything without his "fathers" accept? I believe this show that God is the boss. Other Christians believe it is because Jesus and God is the same being. (trinity)

I do not doubt you believe you know the nature of Jesus. I know you believe he is a prophet.  But do you also know why God created Jesus but not Muhammed and the Israelite/Jewish prophets this miraculous way? What was so special with Jesus that this "method" was necessary?

 

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On 10/5/2017 at 11:29 AM, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum brother, I am aware of Rashid. I don't read any commentary of his but only Shia commentary. 

If you are reading a tafsir and it is emphasizing 19, then mostly likely it is not shia.

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On 10/3/2017 at 4:23 PM, hasanhh said:

Does that mean if "l" become a s.o.g. l can fly ?

And why ain't women included?

Yes, that's exactly it. You get virgins, we get wings. Women ain't included because you get them all.

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14 minutes ago, Son of Placid said:

Yes, that's exactly it. You get virgins, we get wings. Women ain't included because you get them all.

Salam, l was hoping you'd comment on the End of White Christian America post.

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On 10/6/2017 at 11:58 PM, hasanhh said:

Salam, l was hoping you'd comment on the End of White Christian America post.

 

On 10/7/2017 at 6:57 AM, LeftCoastMom said:

^ He's not American, though.

I am what people decide I am, and that's why I'm a soundboard for anything stupid any Christian has ever done. 

The end of white Christian America started with the Bush administration. Like it or not, you might not have been watching, but Trump wants to turn that around. Now he has to fight with every LGBW/E who has center stage and all the rights. As far as he's concerned, you can still kill them. 

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12 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I am what people decide I am, and that's why I'm a soundboard for anything stupid any Christian has ever done. 

The end of white Christian America started with the Bush administration. Like it or not, you might not have been watching, but Trump wants to turn that around. Now he has to fight with every LGBW/E who has center stage and all the rights. As far as he's concerned, you can still kill them. 

l ~half agree with you.  Did you mean Bush41 or babyBush43 ?

l figure that Trump is Judeo-Christian, but in view of the 2nd Commandment, his life long conduct questions whether his drive for money is either a preoccupation or  'the almighty dollar'.

What l do not think what is peculiar to Trump is -historically- the filth in the World always tries to gain an upper hand.

l also do not believe you are "a soundboard for anything stupid any chr!stian has ever done". Go anywhere in the World and you'II find "stupid" is Man's basic intelligence level. By their own choice l add.

Salam, bro.

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9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

l ~half agree with you.  Did you mean Bush41 or babyBush43 ?

l figure that Trump is Judeo-Christian, but in view of the 2nd Commandment, his life long conduct questions whether his drive for money is either a preoccupation or  'the almighty dollar'.

What l do not think what is peculiar to Trump is -historically- the filth in the World always tries to gain an upper hand.

l also do not believe you are "a soundboard for anything stupid any chr!stian has ever done". Go anywhere in the World and you'II find "stupid" is Man's basic intelligence level. By their own choice l add.

Salam, bro.

41

Like LCM said, I'm not American, but I have TV.

Not sure what kind of Christian Trump is. He's relatively new at it and learning as he goes. For now his preoccupation with money seems to be focused on the US...and golf. He's recouvered millions or more in tightening up the books on internal affairs. He never, ever says the right thing, possibly on purpose. 

Nowadays, you don't need intelligence if you're entitled.

What I meant was I am often told what I believe and challenged to defend whatever that may be. People have brought up all kinds of things. I was once told to go dance in my church spraying sacrificial blood on everything. Not sure the rituals he thought I practiced, but in his mind, I became what he hated the most. It's okay, it was part of my job for years like it or not.  I asked one guy if I was to visit him in his country would he kill me, he said maybe. I didn't go. Then again, there was a southern Baptist found out I wasn't trinitarian, reigned fire and brimstone posts on me about once a week for months. He got booted from 5 accounts before he was finally gone. Mostly it's university students trying out what they've learned about Christians.  I hope I've given you a better impression.

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Yes, you have given me a "better impression" than most Christians.

What l now don't understand is how you can say "l am not Trinitarian" from all the things you wrote in the past.

l do not comprehend the dance-spray/fIing-blood insult. l have heard a lot of anti-Christian stuff in Life, but that one l haven't read before. From the way you wrote it, it sounded like your church is one that does Voodoo. l bet @LeftCoastMom gets the same impression --or at least understands what l just wrote.

lt's late here so l'II respond again tomorrow.

Salam

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8 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Yes, you have given me a "better impression" than most Christians.

What l now don't understand is how you can say "l am not Trinitarian" from all the things you wrote in the past.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

This proves my point. You read everything from the perspective that I was a trinitarian so now it doesn't make sense. Too much to re-read so not asking. Possibly you will see my future posts in a different light.

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I don't know about this Surah or 19 stuff.

I thought Canadians should be respected as having a somewhat different history and culture than the US, that's all. Lol.

I thought the blood-flinging might have been an intended insult to transubstantiation. Or maybe a reference to voodoo or Santeria. 

But none of that would  apply to SOP, so don't get that part too well.

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On 06/10/2017 at 3:23 AM, andres said:

It is correct that the Christian Bible was compiled in the 4th century. It is also correct that the old copies of the Gospels have differences (not only Matthew). Which copy you read make little or no difference. More interesting is that the writers belong to different churches, with slight differences in theology.  But since the compilation, 3 centuries before the Quran, the Bible has not changed.

List of Gospels,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels

Excuse my lack of knowledge into Christian history with this question; who chose which Gospels (and under what authority) make up the New Testament, and, have their translations into contemporary English been validated as truly reflecting the language of the original Gospels?

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2 hours ago, LeftCoastMom said:

I don't know about this Surah or 19 stuff.

I thought Canadians should be respected as having a somewhat different history and culture than the US, that's all. Lol.

I thought the blood-flinging might have been an intended insult to transubstantiation. Or maybe a reference to voodoo or Santeria. 

But none of that would  apply to SOP, so don't get that part too well.

@Son of Placid

l wanted to write. Have you seen or heard this? l heard this on radio with an audio replay with a lot of bleeping-out of obscenities.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/oct/6/christian-activists-booted-from-seattle-coffee-sho/ 

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2 hours ago, Ya Aba 3abdillah said:

List of Gospels,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Gospels

Excuse my lack of knowledge into Christian history with this question; who chose which Gospels (and under what authority) make up the New Testament, and, have their translations into contemporary English been validated as truly reflecting the language of the original Gospels?

I hate to throw You-Tubes at people, but I am tired (and you can find this discussion elsewhere on this site as well)....but here are a couple of basic ones that might help. They are not from my Catholic sites, but most mainstream Christian scholars say about the same thing regarding the subject. Christians have a different feeling about how the Bible came to be than Muslims do about the Quran. It's more organic and communal...so there is not really  a " who" in the equation.

 

https://youtu.be/nFEBwfYZBJY

https://youtu.be/Uu6jo7qCreI

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