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The "Basmala  بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ" consists of 19 letters.

"Basmala" appears 114 times in the Quran, a multiple of 19.

The count of chapters in the Quran is a multiple of 19.

The sum of chapters' numbers in the Quran is a multiple of 19.

The sum of all digits mentioned in the Quran is a multiple of 19.

The count of the word "Allah" in all the Quran is a multiple of 19.

The sum of all verse numbers in which the word "Allah" appears is a multiple of 19.

Some chapters start with letters that have no meaning at all. When we count the number of occurrences of all the letters in the Quran and give each letter a numeric value equal to its rank and then add the numeric values of those letters we get a multiple of 19. The most used letter is (ا) and we give it a value of 1. The second most used letter is (ل) and we give it a value of 2... Then we add the numeric value of those letters we get a multiple of 19 (361=19x19). So if anyone changed a single word containing those letters in the Quran the signature would have been broken.

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The code 19 theory is a hoax.  Rashad Khalifa cheated in his maths.  If you do some basic research you will find out yourself, the math doesn't work (leaving out verses, deliberate miscounting, etc).

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I've researched the hadith.  I'm not sure what you mean with accepting them.  I'm not muslim.

It's funny how your questions so far have been about my identity and not about the content I shared.  I've seen this behavior before.

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9 hours ago, waraqa said:

I've researched the hadith.  I'm not sure what you mean with accepting them.  I'm not muslim.

It's funny how your questions so far have been about my identity and not about the content I shared.  I've seen this behavior before.

Don't judge me quick bro. This is why I'm asking, you aren't a Muslim but you have a Muslim name and you are answering questions from the Quran but in a positive light. 

I have read what you have written and I appreciate it whole heartedly. I will research more in the regard of this Ayat but I'm very curious why you are not a Muslim. What religion do you follow and why haven't you accepted Islam as your Way of Life? Aren't these signs in the Quran convincing for you? 

Ajeeb 

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On 7/13/2017 at 1:43 AM, andres said:

Of course they were. OT and NT copies, written long before the birth of Muhammed still exist. 

Salam Andres,

I wonder if Muhammad ever read anything from the Tanakh or the Bible?  Some Muslims say he could read; other Muslims say he couldn't. It's hard to know which side is true.

Definitely, both the Tanakh and New Testament were both around centuries before Muhammad was born, the OT of course long before the NT.

However, sadly they were not easily accessible to the vast majority of people. It's very probable that many people in Arabia during the time of Muhammad were not even literate, much less had access to either the Tanakh or the Christian New Testament.

Similarly, many people in other areas were not literate or had access to the Scriptures either. It's hard to understand nowadays how people can go all their lives without learning how to read or have the honor of reading the Scriptures that were revealed centuries before... it just shows how much God has blessed people in recent modern history, that we have so much access to information nowadays, and how much people have grown in not simply just believing, but actually researching and studying, having more effective and accessible resources to do so.

Peace and God bless you

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On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 7:19 PM, MohammadAli1993 said:

SalamAlaykum Brothers and sister 

I'm currently creating a simplified Tafsir which is very easy to read and the format is not boring, but coming across this ayat it has put it to a pause lol

وَمَا جَعَلْنَا أَصْحَابَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَائِكَةً ۙ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِيمَانًا ۙ وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۙ وَلِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ مَرَضٌ وَالْكَافِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَٰذَا مَثَلًا ۚ كَذَٰلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَشَاءُ وَيَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ ۚ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَىٰ لِلْبَشَرِ {31}

[Shakir 74:31] And We have not made the wardens of the fire others than angels, and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the unbelievers may say: What does Allah mean by this parable? Thus does Allah make err whom He pleases, and He guides whom He pleases, and none knows the hosts of your Lord but He Himself; and this is naught but a reminder to the mortals.

Let me put those parts I'm interested the most in bullet points 

  • ...and We have not made their number but as a trial for those who disbelieve, that those who have been given the book may be certain and those who believe may increase in faith, and those who have been given the book and the believers may not doubt...

According to the Tafsir, the number 19 which in this Chapter is about the angels, is also mentioned in the TORAH 

Here is the Question

Can a knowledgeable brother or sister please tell me where in the TORAH and the Gospels it mentions anything to do with 19 Angels that Guard the Hell. 

Jazakallah Khairyan

There is not any such mention in Old or New Testaments.

"19" occurs in the Book of Joshua in reference to cities and villages [ 19:38 ]

and "19" occurs at 2Samuel2:30 about David's(a.s.) servants missing.

The mention of Gehenna/Jehenna occurs only once in the Old and a couple of times in the Gospels.

For more, check a Concordance.

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On 7/30/2017 at 7:28 AM, waraqa said:

One also needs to be aware potassium isotopes are radio-active.  This means they will speed up the decay of other elements in their surrounding.

what?

This topic is just getting more and more ugly the more i read.

Where did you read that one elements decay rate would affect decay rates of neighboring elements?

 

Edited by iCambrian

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On 7/30/2017 at 7:22 AM, waraqa said:

Good point, Son of Placid.  Thanks for this contribution.

You are correct in what you posted.  But one needs to keep in mind the extremely long half life of potassium (this is the speed at which a chemical element decays).  Potassium is known for its extremely long half life. Putting this into the context of the Quranic description of hell, we know the stay in hell isn't just for a short while but for an eternity.

Within this context, hell will still be covered by potassium or potassium isotopes since all the other elements will have decayed.

Also, radioactive decay isnt equivalent to hellfire. Radioactive elements do not burn us nor do they create fire.There is potassium in our bananas, but it isnt making our bananas burn. There are plenty of elements with longer decay rates than potassium, and hell is considered something that exists for eternity, not for any limited period of time. Having a decay rate implies a limited period of time before it runs out.  But hellfire isnt something that just...runs out. As if hell is on a time constraint before it disappears.

Edited by iCambrian

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10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

The mention of Gehenna/Jehenna occurs only once in the Old and a couple of times in the Gospels.

For more, check a Concordance.

Gehenna or Hinnom is mentioned more than once in the Hebrew Bible. It was a Valley in Jerusalem were some Israelite Kings burned their children as sacrifice to the Gods. In NT Gehenna is Hell.  The Jewish Bible does not operate with Hell (or Heaven)

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10 hours ago, hasanhh said:

The mention of Gehenna/Jehenna occurs only once in the Old and a couple of times in the Gospels.

For more, check a Concordance.

Gehenna or Hinnom is mentioned more than once in the Hebrew Bible. It was a Valley in Jerusalem were some Israelite Kings burned their children as sacrifice to the Gods. In NT Gehenna is Hell.  The Jewish Bible does not operate with Hell (or Heaven)

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9 hours ago, andres said:

Gehenna or Hinnom is mentioned more than once in the Hebrew Bible. It was a Valley in Jerusalem were some Israelite Kings burned their children as sacrifice to the Gods. In NT Gehenna is Hell.  The Jewish Bible does not operate with Hell (or Heaven)

Hinnom Valley is from the Potsherd Gate at Jerusalem. This is not Gehenna. The pretense that gehenna comes from the" Aramaic ge-hinnom" is not true. lt is only made up.  Aramaic occurs in two separate words and in one sentence in the OT.

Sheol, the grave, is the Hebrew word used from Deuteronomy forward. Greek insertions changes it to their Hades which church doctrinaires  like to keep it at that - for it is usable with their chr!stology.

Gehenna as Hell specific does occur in Rabbinic literature of that time. Ergo, ...

... Your last sentence, "The Jewish Bible does not operate with Hell..." is correct They use Sheol. However it does with Heaven, as when the God-of-Noah, Allah-s.w.t. created Heaven [Genesis 1:1 ] or Elijah/Elias was taken to Heaven [ 4Kings2:1ff --since you write as a Protestant l chose this citation].

l found this, which you might like: 

http://totheendsblog.blogspot.com/2013/11/hell-hades-and-gehenna-list-of-verses.html  

Edited by hasanhh

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8 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Hinnom Valley is from the Potsherd Gate at Jerusalem. This is not Gehenna. The pretense that gehenna comes from the" Aramaic ge-hinnom" is not true. lt is only made up.  Aramaic occurs in two separate words and in one sentence in the OT.

Sheol, the grave, is the Hebrew word used from Deuteronomy forward. Greek insertions changes it to their Hades which church doctrinaires  like to keep it at that - for it is usable with their chr!stology.

Gehenna as Hell specific does occur in Rabbinic literature of that time. Ergo, ...

... Your last sentence, "The Jewish Bible does not operate with Hell..." is correct They use Sheol. However it does with Heaven, as when the God-of-Noah, Allah-s.w.t. created Heaven [Genesis 1:1 ] or Elijah/Elias was taken to Heaven [ 4Kings2:1ff --since you write as a Protestant l chose this citation].

l found this, which you might like: 

http://totheendsblog.blogspot.com/2013/11/hell-hades-and-gehenna-list-of-verses.html  

By heaven and Hell I intended judgement and ressurection which is not a part of old Judaism.  The belief was that everybody, good and bad, rested in Sheol after death. Belief in resurrection came later. At the time of Jesus, Jews were divided on the issue.

I believe you are correct that Gehenna in Christian and Rabinnic literature means Hell. But as far as I am told, in the Hebrew Bible it equals the Hinnom Valley, where Israeli Kings sacrificed children to their Gods.

Check Wikipedia

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1 hour ago, andres said:

By heaven and Hell I intended judgement and ressurection which is not a part of old Judaism.  The belief was that everybody, good and bad, rested in Sheol after death. Belief in resurrection came later. At the time of Jesus, Jews were divided on the issue.

I believe you are correct that Gehenna in Christian and Rabinnic literature means Hell. But as far as I am told, in the Hebrew Bible it equals the Hinnom Valley, where Israeli Kings sacrificed children to their Gods.

Check Wikipedia

Even now, some Jews do not believe in a Resurrection. The Reform is one of the groups.  There is a persistent emphasis on National/tribal judgment in the "here" but not in an after-life. Your Sheol comment is correct.

Hinnom --smoke, fire, 'lake of fire' were used analogously by the prophets. The equivalenting of Hinnom with Hell is for anti-Semitic reasons. Note: after WW2 this "locating" of Hell was changed from Mt. Aetna to the Dead Sea.

"Check Wikipedia" --Be Careful.  Sites such as "biblestudytools" are doctrinaire and not academic or critical.(as in "High Criticism" if you have had that in study).

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47 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

Even now, some Jews do not believe in a Resurrection. The Reform is one of the groups.  There is a persistent emphasis on National/tribal judgment in the "here" but not in an after-life. Your Sheol comment is correct.

Hinnom --smoke, fire, 'lake of fire' were used analogously by the prophets. The equivalenting of Hinnom with Hell is for anti-Semitic reasons. Note: after WW2 this "locating" of Hell was changed from Mt. Aetna to the Dead Sea.

"Check Wikipedia" --Be Careful.  Sites such as "biblestudytools" are doctrinaire and not academic or critical.(as in "High Criticism" if you have had that in study).

Of course one shall be careful. But I believe wikipedia here reports the mainstream academic position.  Are you being careful with the blogger you refer to? Looks like a Muslim blogg

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11 hours ago, andres said:

Of course one shall be careful. But I believe wikipedia here reports the mainstream academic position.  Are you being careful with the blogger you refer to? Looks like a Muslim blogg

"Mainstream" lS the peole who have a vested and financial interest in a particular view, course of study and its interpretation.

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9 hours ago, hasanhh said:

"Mainstream" lS the peole who have a vested and financial interest in a particular view, course of study and its interpretation.

By mainstream I meant the great majority of critical scholars that have spent a lifetime studying the Hebrew Bible and the culture in which it was created. They do not always agree, so maybe we can find some that dispute that Gehenna=Hinnom. I have not been able to find thou, and the blogg you linked to does not mention Hinnom. 

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55 minutes ago, hasanhh said:

@andres  Yeah, they do not always agree taking the side of who pays them, but they always agree never to note that the preponderant guidance in the Gospels is 'satan says 'son of god' '.

In democratic nations, professors wages are payed by a secular state. The state does not bother whatever interpretation they may do concerning the Bible or Quran

 

 

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5 hours ago, hasanhh said:

@andres  Yeah, they do not always agree taking the side of who pays them, but they always agree never to note that the preponderant guidance in the Gospels is 'satan says 'son of god' '.

I keep seeing that, is it a chant or something? It's like a pivotal point ignoring all others.

New Testament predicts Jesus would be called the son of God, then various times He gets called son of God. Many said it, satan did too. Later on there's instructions on how to become sons of God. It's obviously not a genetic thing. Why does satan get singled out? 

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4 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

I keep seeing that, is it a chant or something? It's like a pivotal point ignoring all others.

New Testament predicts Jesus would be called the son of God, then various times He gets called son of God. Many said it, satan did too. Later on there's instructions on how to become sons of God. It's obviously not a genetic thing. Why does satan get singled out? 

"why does satan get singled out?"  Easy. What can be more mentally sicker or more evil than preaching the Words of the Devil ?

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4 hours ago, Son of Placid said:

.... Later on there's instructions on how to become sons of God.

Does that mean if "l" become a s.o.g. l can fly ?

And why ain't women included?

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13 hours ago, hasanhh said:

Does that mean if "l" become a s.o.g. l can fly ?

And why ain't women included?

Women are not mentioned as much as men in the Bible. Thou more than in the Quran that only mention one (1!) woman by name. I dont recall having heard the expression "daughter of God" but "children of God", includes all genders.

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13 hours ago, hasanhh said:

"why does satan get singled out?"  Easy. What can be more mentally sicker or more evil than preaching the Words of the Devil ?

Who preaches the words of the Devil?

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