Jump to content
Islandsandmirrors

Traditional Orthodontics Exposed (Part 1)

Recommended Posts

Before I state my evidence on the matter of malocclusion (bad bite) let me begin by stating my hypothesis on why bad bites form, which has been backed-up by pinoneers such as John Mew.

We've been told by traditional orthodontics that "genetics" is the reason we experience various malocclusions in this world, such as cross bites, Class II (commonly known as "buck teeth"), and anterior and posterior open bites as to just state a few examples. However, if one were to study the history of malocclusion, such as the study of the ancient skull in comparison to our modern one, like in this picture here:

pintubimodern3.jpg

(Right - modern skull, left - ancient skull.)

It would be evident that malocclusion is only a recent issue that has only become a problem within the start of the industrial revolution. In the last 200-300 years has malocclusion become rampant and normal in society, which is far too early for our genes to make such a dramatic shift.

Therefore, malocclusion is based on three or more environmental factors:

- improper oral posture (more on that later.)

- the increase of vertical growth as opposed to horizontal (more on this later)

- mouth breathing

- traditional ortho which pull everything back instead of forward (this problem gets worse if the patient is treated with extractions)

- soft modern diet

- allergies 

- being bottle fed as a child

 

These, and more, increase the enlongation of the face, and therefore, makes a face look less pleasing to the eye.

 

What is proper oral posture?

traditional orthos (the ones who primarily use retractive methods such as headgears, excessive power chains, extractions, etc.) will tell you that proper oral posture at rest is "lips together, teeth apart." However, this is a vague statement which may be confusing to the patient and detrimental to the facial growth of the child.

Proper oral posture, in fact, is when the tongue is plastered to the roof of the mouth and that teeth is slightly apart at rest or just lightly touching. This increases horizontal (forward) growth of the jaws which improve the airway, little to non-TMD issues, aligned bite, more attractive face and profile. It is said that keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth allows the natural growth of both jaws in a growing child that will eliminate any sort of surgery if prevented in the future. 

The proof is in John and his son Mike Mew's results, which use a different method called orthotropics and the results speak for themselves. Here's a segment on Dispatches:

 

Why we find models so attractive:

What makes an attractive face? Similarly what makes a face unattractive?

Before I delve into this, I will admit that traditional orthos prefer vertical growth and flatter faces in general, whereas the general public and often times, the patient themselves, prefer fuller faces, which in pronounced cheeks and stronger jaw bones are present.

Many of your favored models and actors have horizontal growth, which is an indicator of a person with good health, something we are biologically hard-wired to desire in friends and in romantic relationships. 

(Note: I will post pictures of female models and male models for solely educational purposes. My aim is to compare and contrast, in this section, the differences between vertical and horizontal growth in humans and their effects on the profile. So, if any mods see this post, please do not remove the images as they are essential for making my point.)

Horizontal growth, as noted by the strong jaw line, tongue on the palate, wide smiles, and prominent cheekbones:

Julia.jpg

shanina_shaik_backstage_at_just_cavalli_

 

This type of facial beauty is not just reserved for models or the case of "blessed genetics" at all. Rather, the two pictures stated above have proper oral posture at rest, which is what gives someone their defined bone structure. Note the lip seal without strain. Here's an example of a girl who used "growth guidance" by John Mew, which allows the posture and size of jaws to become altered and expanded, without extractions, and without fixed braces, and without retainers and without surgery. Both jaws are encouraged to grow forward and here's the result:

biobloc.png

 

Here's an example of vertical growth by a traditional ortho in comparison with horizontal growth.

 

 

 

 

Part 2: to come soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol I dont really get this? Are you showing that people with certain bone structures are better looking or that there is a difference in skeletons from the past and today or what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Muhajir said:

lol I dont really get this? Are you showing that people with certain bone structures are better looking or that there is a difference in skeletons from the past and today or what?

All of the above. 

Horizontal (forward) is more attractive than vertical growth. Horizontal growth was not an abnormality in the past, and vertical growth is only a recent issue. 

Everyone in the past had forward growth, and room for all teeth. Model-like beauty and facial development was not a rarity, as seen by the skeletial growth of both the maxilla and mandible in the first picture.

My point in all of this is traditional orthos just yank out a bunch of teeth without taking the airway, the bone structure, the profile, the TMJ joints into consideration. Their objective is not make your face how it should be had you received emphasis on oral posture and expansion, but rather their only objective is you to recieve straight teeth, even if it damages your face and TMJ joints in the future. This is especially true if you've gotten extractions, which causes major adverse side effects like narrow jaw line, receding chins, "dished in" lips and overall profile. 

And yes, absolutely, I am saying that people with more forward growth (due to correct oral posture and lip seal.) will always be considered as more attractive than someone who has more vertical growth from environment and traditional orthodontics who smash everything back. 

Here's another example. Most orthos would use headgear and braces when she was younger to pull everything back, and instead, she opted for the orthotropics method, which increase forward growth.

Sample-Image-86.jpg

Traditional orthos would not be able to create a face like this.

 

Bottom line, we all want faces like this:

horizontalcheekline_f_improf_210x294_f_i

 

Not this:

 

verticalcheekline.png

The line drawn from the eye to the cheek line indicates the type of growth, either vertical or horizontal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Muhajir said:

I think I understand now. So are you saying that dentists who practice orthodontics are bad?

I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that many who have been trained to yank a bunch of teeth are not willing to step out of their comfort zone and embrace healthier alternatives. Many don't even inform patients of other alternatives like Orthotropics. It's the way they were taught in dental school and the methods that need to be changed. 

Some orthodontists are realizing this, and instead of using pull-back methods, they use devices to make room for all teeth. However, many don't want to embrace these methods because it would lead to:

- more time for the orthodontist 

- more dedication

- more work 

Many orthos are lazy and do not wish to make it hard on themselves, and therefore, prefer to stick to outdated techniques which do more harm than good. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that many who have been trained to yank a bunch of teeth are not willing to step out of their comfort zone and embrace healthier alternatives. Many don't even inform patients of other alternatives like Orthotropics. It's the way they were taught in dental school and the methods that need to be changed. 

Some orthodontists are realizing this, and instead of using pull-back methods, they use devices to make room for all teeth. However, many don't want to embrace these methods because it would lead to:

- more time for the orthodontist 

- more dedication

- more work 

Many orthos are lazy and do not wish to make it hard on themselves, and therefore, prefer to stick to outdated techniques which do more harm than good. 

oh I never trust modern secular scholarship 100% anyways, I could see why you would think that. I dont think they are lazy tho they are probably just doing what they know so maybe the better word would be that they might be ignorant of better practices or alternatives? Or its possible they know the better practices and alternatives but they want to make money so they dont use them because they might be free or cheaper. do you agree? I think it might be a mix of both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Muhajir said:

oh I never trust modern secular scholarship 100% anyways, I could see why you would think that. I dont think they are lazy tho they are probably just doing what they know so maybe the better word would be that they might be ignorant of better practices or alternatives? Or its possible they know the better practices and alternatives but they want to make money so they dont use them because they might be free or cheaper. do you agree? I think it might be a mix of both.

Some may be not familiar so when they hear about alternatives, they start to apply them in their own practice. Some are familiar but they don't care. 

They do primarily want to make money, you're right. Every time a new patient walks in it's an attempt to see 5,000-10,000 worth of work on the person's mouth. Do they reject or go ahead with treatment? 

Part of it is the "slick oil salesman" way of agenda and thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Islandsandmirrors said:

Some may be not familiar so when they hear about alternatives, they start to apply them in their own practice. Some are familiar but they don't care. 

They do primarily want to make money, you're right. Every time a new patient walks in it's an attempt to see 5,000-10,000 worth of work on the person's mouth. Do they reject or go ahead with treatment? 

Part of it is the "slick oil salesman" way of agenda and thinking.

Exactly you should know as you get older money becomes a big factor in people decisions but we should be easy on some of these dentists many of them are probably just trying to do their jobs but in some cases maybe some of their practices might be beneficial like if somebody needs braces or something because their teeth hurt, so their are positives in it as well and I dont know about the face thing and beauty its possible those pics you showed looked like that because the actual people looked better but I am sure there are cases where the opposite can occur where the other way also looks good. Also inner beauty and good character can make a person look better. My mom always tells me that my features and stuff look good but since my character is bad that makes me look ugly lol but my point is good character and inner beauty is actually what makes one look good externally in many cases. There are many good looking people at first glance but once you see their low character dont you notice that they start looking ugly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see this thread on here. Have you had experience with Orthotropic treatment yourself? 
You have outlined your case against conventional orthodontics beautifully and I agree that the patients who have been treated to gain horizontal growth have far, far better results than those who have been treated with conventional braces. In fact, they could not possibly be placed in the same league. Given that often extractions and surgery are recommended simply to straighten the teeth with no regard for the increased in vertical growth of the face which in turn may affect other structures such as the nose, it seems ludicrous and a great shame that many are still opting for conventional braces and orthodontic treatment.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Important thread, and i can confirm, there is a lot of truth in this.

 improper oral posture (more on that later.)

- the increase of vertical growth as opposed to horizontal (more on this later)

- mouth breathing

- soft modern diet

^

1. Have proper oral posture

2. Do *NOT* breath through your mouth unless you have a medical condition, in which case see a doctor first.

3. Eat some tough foods , don't just drink your calories or have mash potatoes. 

I can also add another strictly for the guys - start lifting, drink Fish Oil and get enough Vitamin D, Zinc, and Calcium.

 

 

Edited by Intellectual Resistance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/16/2018 at 8:08 AM, AJ2604 said:

Great to see this thread on here. Have you had experience with Orthotropic treatment yourself? 
You have outlined your case against conventional orthodontics beautifully and I agree that the patients who have been treated to gain horizontal growth have far, far better results than those who have been treated with conventional braces. In fact, they could not possibly be placed in the same league. Given that often extractions and surgery are recommended simply to straighten the teeth with no regard for the increased in vertical growth of the face which in turn may affect other structures such as the nose, it seems ludicrous and a great shame that many are still opting for conventional braces and orthodontic treatment.  

Thank you, just wanting to spread awareness on other treatment options that can be found. 

I personally didn’t have orthotropics treatment myself, but I have had improper oral posture until recently (tongue resting between the lower jaw and upper jaw.) and I’ve seen the changes in my face and jawline by adopting this technique. 

It definitely is a shame, especially since surgery could have been prevented in majority of cases. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more. I think its  a great shame that more people are not aware of this technique. The changes that are possible with no surgery and no extractions are incredible and what a difference it could made to someones entire life. Surgery is has major risks and pushing the teeth back into spaces created by extractions can not only be damaging to the face by causing it to collapse (witch-like side profile) but also causes a constriction of the airway and can cause many other problems such as sleep apnoea. Orthotropics aims to bring everything forward, creating better nasal capacity and therefore improving general well-being. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AJ2604 said:

Islandsandmirrors, I would be interested to hear your orthodontic/dental journey and how you came across Orthotropics. 

My dental journey has been a complicated one. I went to an orthodontist at the age of six and was given a slow-expanding device on both my upper and lower jaws. During the consultation, the assistant said that my bite was a bit deep and hiding too much of my front teeth. So I began to space my teeth far apart in my mouth and my tongue dropped from the roof of the mouth, slowly creating an open bite in the back. 

At the age of 12, I went to another orthodontist, who put me in a rapid palate expander and later told me I would need braces and surgery to correct the issue. I ended up moving before I could finish with the palate expanding treatment and the device was left in my mouth for almost a year because I couldn’t find anyone to remove it. 

Fast forward to about the age of fourteen. I got braces on my teeth by supposedly the best orthodontist in the area. I had a bad feeling about him, and felt like he was a “slick oil salesman” type of dentist, but my parents decided that this was the best option for me, so they went ahead.

(My family didn’t want me to get surgery with them because they didn’t like the surgeon, so they wanted my open bite to be fixed as much as possible with braces instead.)

I was put in ceramic braces, which ended up chipping my front teeth on. They created the biggest gaps between my teeth and wanted to cover-up their mistakes by forcing me to get cosmetic work done. So I got porcelain veneers on my six front teeth, which were too large and bulky for my face and mouth. I ended-up developing tmj issues because of the poor-fitting veneers and facial pain. Thankfully, I had them filed-down by another dentist and they look just like my own teeth. 

My tmj issues didn’t resolve, however. And that’s when I moved back to live with my dad. I found a tmj specialist whom I’ve been having very successful treatment with, and he completely trashed the other orthodontist’s work and that he was very sorry that I had gone through such a terrible experience. He put me in a splint 6 months before treatment and I was put back in braces that year. He said he was going to bring everything forward to improve my airway and my profile, and my tmj issues resolved. I was not in powerchains except for 3 times in total to exaggerate a cant in my jaw in preparation for surgery in the last nearly year and a half whereas with my old ortho I was in nothing but powerchains.

I was also scheduled for surgery as my upper jaw failed to grow and I would need a bone graft during surgery to fix it. During this time in which my airway was improving, I kept watching Mew’s videos until it finally “clicked” that I needed to place my tongue on the roof of the mouth. I had seen his interview on Dispatches before retreatment as a result of random dental searching on YouTube before retreatment but I couldn’t follow on his premise at the time because my tongue no longer fit in the roof of the mouth due to severe retraction (despite no teeth pulled) of my upper arch with the previous ortho.

Since doing so (about a year before surgery) my tmj specialist, his assistant kept saying how dramatically my profile and face was changing for the better, and I said “I can finally rest my tongue against my palate” which he was happy to hear, and because of that, gaps between my canine and first premolar had been created as a result of keeping my tongue where it was supposed to be.

My surgeon made the decision to maintain arch width and stated that he (I would be getting a three-piece lefort 1) didn’t want the gaps in my upper arch to be closed after surgery. So now, one month post-op, I have slight gaps between my teeth, but my tongue rests naturally and (I was on CP’s site constantly before surgery trying to learn how to swallow correctly.) I have no issues. 

I believe that Mew’s work will prevent jaw surgery relapse, and I am very facinated with his before and afters. I’m glad that I found him randomly on YouTube. :) 

Edited by Islandsandmirrors

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow thank you for your story! Sorry you have had such a traumatic experience. I am pleased you are on the road to health and have been able to correct the issues you once suffered from. 

I am also impressed with the changes you have been able to make by implementing the knowledge from Mews videos on YouTube. I genuinely believe that if everyone is able to implement this into their lives there would be absolutely no need for Fixed braces or Surgery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×