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14 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

You are correct.

People call it miracle because the facts which know now have been mentioned 1400 years ago.

I am making a very subtle point.  It is that the Miracle itself can only be accepted by those who have iman.  In other words, the "outcomes" or "effects" of the Miracle are not really there to "prove" a Miracle.  In fact, even if you try to prove the Miracle through those "effects" it would be impossible.  Only those who have iman will see the Quran as a Miracle.  Those who don't have iman will see the outcomes or effects as a Miracle.  

Also, to impose a meaning onto the Quran (in the case of the so called "Scientific Miracles") is a sign that one doesn't have true iman in the Miracle of the Quran.  Because, in a very subtle way, they are taking Modern Science over and above the Divine Self-Expression.  

Edited by eThErEaL

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Men may consider Quranic miracles in different ways, an student of literature may consider from it that it has unique style looks poetic but it's not poetry and addresses wisdom.

A physicist may say I see Neeton's law in Quran that every action has consequence or reaction or if you do not bring goodness, God will not help you similarly as you don't apply force on a mass, no work will be done so different people different observations. I believe in Ali a.s who says: "I learnt from Prophet PBUHHP only Quran".

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15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

So, did the universe took million of years to explode?

Why you are starting from the state of singularity? Do you think that hot & dense state have no cause?

15 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Secondly, if kun is willed to start a process to last in billion of years, it's starting period and existence is fayakun till it is designed to last.

start is immediate beginning of kun and it is fayakun.

I strongly recommend these two verses for you.

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 49:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ

Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 50:

وَمَا أَمْرُنَا إِلَّا وَاحِدَةٌ كَلَمْحٍ بِالْبَصَرِ

And Our command is but one, as the twinkling of an eye.

(English - Shakir)

These two glorious verses speaks about two systems

a) Qadr  

b) Amr

I hope you will think on them & try to build your understanding in light of these verses instead of try to understand the verses in the light of unconfirmed scientific theories.

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10 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I am making a very subtle point.  It is that the Miracle itself can only be accepted by those who have iman.  In other words, the "outcomes" or "effects" of the Miracle are not really there to "prove" a Miracle.  In fact, even if you try to prove the Miracle through those "effects" it would be impossible.  Only those who have iman will see the Quran as a Miracle.  Those who don't have iman will see the outcomes or effects as a Miracle.  

Also, to impose a meaning onto the Quran (in the case of the so called "Scientific Miracles") is a sign that one doesn't have true iman in the Miracle of the Quran.  Because, in a very subtle way, they are taking Modern Science over and above the Divine Self-Expression.  

I am totally agreed with you brother.

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5 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Why you are starting from the state of singularity? Do you think that hot & dense state have no cause?

I strongly recommend these two verses for you.

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 49:

إِنَّا كُلَّ شَيْءٍ خَلَقْنَاهُ بِقَدَرٍ

Surely We have created everything according to a measure.

(English - Shakir)

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 50:

وَمَا أَمْرُنَا إِلَّا وَاحِدَةٌ كَلَمْحٍ بِالْبَصَرِ

And Our command is but one, as the twinkling of an eye.

(English - Shakir)

These two glorious verses speaks about two systems

a) Qadr  

b) Amr

I hope you will think on them & try to build your understanding in light of these verses instead of try to understand the verses in the light of unconfirmed scientific theories.

Sure brother I will ponder over those verses.

I do not follow those theories of science which are denied by Quran but I do admit those laws of nature mentioned in Quran which are observed by science and are established facts that tells us how truthful our religion is.

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14 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

Why you are starting from the state of singularity? Do you think that hot & dense state have no cause?

I don't think that anything which has beginning and end occurs without a cause.

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26 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

I am making a very subtle point.  It is that the Miracle itself can only be accepted by those who have iman.  In other words, the "outcomes" or "effects" of the Miracle are not really there to "prove" a Miracle.  In fact, even if you try to prove the Miracle through those "effects" it would be impossible.  Only those who have iman will see the Quran as a Miracle.  Those who don't have iman will see the outcomes or effects as a Miracle.  

Also, to impose a meaning onto the Quran (in the case of the so called "Scientific Miracles") is a sign that one doesn't have true iman in the Miracle of the Quran.  Because, in a very subtle way, they are taking Modern Science over and above the Divine Self-Expression.  

Disagree with second paragraph. Rational Science is not separate from Quran and Islam and irrational science which has no basis in nature which we term sometimes as theories or false ideologies are not separate from ignorance.  So, interpreting quran through rational science is not depending on science for Quran, but it is part of Quran to understand creator and creation.

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11 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Disagree with second paragraph.

Lets see what he said in 2nd paragraph:

45 minutes ago, eThErEaL said:

Also, to impose a meaning onto the Quran (in the case of the so called "Scientific Miracles") is a sign that one doesn't have true iman in the Miracle of the Quran.  Because, in a very subtle way, they are taking Modern Science over and above the Divine

What's wrong in this paragraph @Sindbad05? It is quite similar to what I said to you 

38 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

try to build your understanding in light of these verses instead of try to understand the verses in the light of unconfirmed scientific theories.

 

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

Also, to impose a meaning onto the Quran (in the case of the so called "Scientific Miracles") is a sign that one doesn't have true iman in the Miracle of the Quran.  Because, in a very subtle way, they are taking Modern Science over and above the Divine

It is not wrong to believe in science if it expresses what Quran has already expressed.  And showing such thing does not proves that science is superior or inferior but only that it proves through observations what Quran expresses in words. If for such thing, the science is left then it also be deemed as disobeying Allah for Quran says: "Obtain nearness to God through means" and it was through Imams that we were taught this means of understanding God when Imam Sadiq a.s begin his university for teaching students in natural science and physics.

 

1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:
1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

try to build your understanding in light of these verses instead of try to understand the verses in the light of unconfirmed scientific theories.

 

Well, you did not know completely about how I understand things, I do not believe in scientific theories, they are just speculations and speculations are deemed unfit in our religion. I believe in scientific facts. 

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3 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

The verses quoted earlier mentions no such processess. The result of kun is fayakoon, instant effect like the twinkle of an eye.

Surah Al-Qamar, Verse 50:

وَمَا أَمْرُنَا إِلَّا وَاحِدَةٌ كَلَمْحٍ بِالْبَصَرِ

And Our command is but one, as the twinkling of an eye.

(English - Shakir)

Indeed this command is the "cosmic music,music of strings which is resonating through  11 dimensional hyperspace,that is the mind of God." Michio Kaku .

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16 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

It is not wrong to believe in science if it expresses what Quran has already expressed.  And showing such thing does not proves that science is superior or inferior but only that it proves through observations what Quran expresses in words.

 

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14 minutes ago, Quisant said:

 

The science in the Quran had already been stated.Then you are denying it ? Like denying the whole science.

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On 8/8/2017 at 5:42 PM, Quisant said:

I think the Global Flood is a myth for the simple reason that It didn’t work! 

Actually the flood was not universal rather regional in the Quran.

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

 

Woah, science is changing?  Scientific facts are still the same, however, knowledge about those facts is increasing. Such as we know that every action has equal reaction but this law has increasing applications now. Quran also says that Allah has power over all things and can make things happen which for science are difficult to be understood such as raising dead into life. I completely disagree with this guy because I have seen every science in Quran from ethics to phydics and those aren't changed still because they are laws and laws don't change but applications do change. 

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2 hours ago, M.IB said:

Actually the flood was not universal rather regional in the Quran.

It is highly unlikely that a flood would cover the entire planet. The flood in Noah's time would have covered a large area but no more.  

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36 minutes ago, Quisant said:

 

All Faith is false, all Faith is true:
Truth is the shattered mirror strown
In myriad bits; while each believes
his little bit the whole to own.
*

didn't understand a bit of this poetry :confused:

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5 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

That's interesting point.

 

4 hours ago, baqar said:

It is highly unlikely that a flood would cover the entire planet. The flood in Noah's time would have covered a large area but no more.  

 

2 hours ago, Quisant said:

 

All Faith is false, all Faith is true:
Truth is the shattered mirror strown
In myriad bits; while each believes
his little bit the whole to own.
*

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/historical_06.html

I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world (universe), which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it. @Quisant

Edited by M.IB

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11 hours ago, M.IB said:

I feel sorry about your state! You cannot imagine one ship running without some one looking after its affairs. Yet you think that for this whole world (universe), which runs exactly and precisely, there is no one who looks after it, and no one owns it. @Quisant

Is a ship stable in our minds only, but not stable in the real world? 

Or is it stable in the real world as well?

If the ship is stable in the real world, then does this stability exist in the real world?

 

When you are anxious outside your comfort, you trick yourself into mediocrity. 

wslm.

*

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6 hours ago, Quisant said:

Is a ship stable in our minds only, but not stable in the real world? 

Or is it stable in the real world as well?

If the ship is stable in the real world, then does this stability exist in the real world?

 

When you are anxious outside your comfort, you trick yourself into mediocrity. 

wslm.

*

Our ships are stable and that is why our ships are signalling your drowning ships from the side of sea of guidance that watch out our signal and come our side instead of being ruined by the sea of ignorance in which you are being ruined by it's waves, but you are not crossing the border separating sea of guidance and sea of ignorance.

Due to stability of our ships in our minds, our ship is also stable in the real world as well but both your intellectual ship as well as physical life are in ignorance. 

Third sentence I cannot understand it, please explain me and I will try to answer it as well. 

W.salam.....Every philosophy bows down before Islam. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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