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On 6/11/2017 at 4:58 AM, S.M.H.A. said:

Yes in an one on one conversation, there comes a time of diminishing returns and we do move on. But these are confined conversations with ot an Audience.

 

When we have Audience, things are directed to the individual and the Jury. After some time, Issues are addressed for the benefit of All.

*****

This information, below  is very basic and we are all aware of it .

Science is the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

There are three main branches of science: physical science,earth science, and life science. Physical science is the study of inanimate natural objects and the laws that govern them. It includes physics, chemistry and astronomy.

The veterinary science, the science of criminology, environmental sciences,

The sciences concerned with the study of living organisms, including biology, botany, zoology, microbiology, physiology, biochemistry, and related subjects.

Social Science, study of human society, and social relationships-

Empirical evidence is information acquired by observation or experimentation.

What is common and obvious fact is that Science is a “STUDY” of some thing(universe, human behaviour etc..). Another fact is it's partly ‘OBSERVATION” of something. Partly experiment.

We are All scientists in terms of the fact that we OBSERVE/STUDY what's around us to come to conclusions( Observe basic observable facts like Sun, Moon, Planets etc...in terms of Social Sciences we observe Human/ societies behaviour ) so at a very basic level we are “Studying” the world(physical and social ) around us.

Specialized study requires experiments. Important things here is that experiments have limitations as we can only experiment on things under our control. Managed, at a micro level. At a Macro level we mostly deal with Observations and experiments(with limitations).

What is the point here. Simple, we should not be taken back with condensed, and highly specialized terms like Special Relativity, time compression, Singularity, time-space continuum, regression theory……etc

We should ask the person to define it in very very simple terms, not utilizing scientific terminology. We will see that these are not so complex issues, once they are explained in simple layman terms. Once this kind of basic ground work is been laid out, things will become very simple and manageable to understand, and it's will take the Advantage away from the people utilizing these Terms to confuse the laypeople. Concepts become very simple at this level.

Once we are at this level, we will see the arguments crumble and demystification  of specialized terms/concepts will bring about clarity.

For example:

 

This entire Universe(as we know it ), could be a mosquito is the Amazon jungle. So, It is very arrogant of the Scientific community to present unverified Theories and mix them with Facts and present a holistic view. . No one can deny that fact that All that is around us, just came out of thin air, everything just got its formula right to form water, air etc for Human to develop. Or this Universe to develop on its own.  It's like saying our brain formed because right conditions existed i.e Skull. Kidneys, Heart or blood formed because the right conditions existed in our body. Or a cells arraigned itself to form a leaf and the other time the bark --or the root etc...

In terms of answering the question of God. Empirical evidence is information acquired by observation or experimentation. Experimentation is not possible, So, Observation is key....and that is what we are asked , to Observe whats around us(in the immediate vicinity and whats in space)reflect and ponder on it. This is was Science(Study) of something is all about so there is no contradiction  at this level, with "Science" as it it self states its the study of some thing, where observation is involved. 

 

 

The elephant has laboured mightily and delivered onto us ....a mouse! :)

If a God exists then its purest expression is reality itself.
If the teachings of the faith are God’s revelation of the truth; science, the product of human reason, is the search for truth. 
The “correct faith“, therefore, cannot be opposed to “good science” because “truth” is the object of both.  

2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

no doubt about that. And the Edwin Hubble said universe is expanding and confirmed what Quran said

[Quran 51:47] And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.

 

You are quoting H. Yahya own 'translation' of the verse, not the Quran.

wa-s-samāʾa banaynāhā bi-ʾaydin wa-ʾinnā la-mūsiʿūn

Yusuf Ali: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of space.

Pickthal: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

Shakir: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

He conveniently forgets other verses like...:

Yusuf Ali: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

Yusuf Ali: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

No mention of extending anything.  The Quran is  silent on the “big bang” ; the cosmology in the Quran is geocentric, with a flat earth at the center of the universe surrounded by seven solid spheres (the “seven heavens”) within which orbited the stars, planets, sun and moon.

No mention of Big Bang, galaxies, or clusters of galaxies, or quasars and pulsars or any of the other things that could have easily been mentioned and left us without any doubt.

There are no "miracles" in the Quran, nothing in the Book predicts scientific events that are going to happen in the future, the fact that the Quran is NOT used as a reference by the world's leading scientists in any field is evident that the Quran is WORTHLESS in science. 

There is no science, the Quran is a book of guidance.
 

What clerics and charlatans do is re-interpret the Quran to fit modern day discoveries. 

Why don't you do as Baqar suggests: pack your bags and move on, my friends.

Surely there are better things you can spend your time on.

ws. 

*


 

Edited by Quisant
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science (n.) 
mid-14c., "what is known, knowledge (of something) acquired by study; information;" also "assurance of knowledge, certitude, certainty," from Old French science "knowledge, learning, application; corpus of human knowledge" (12c.), from Latin scientia "knowledge, a knowing; expertness," from sciens(genitive scientis) "intelligent, skilled," present participle of scire "to know," probably originally "to separate one thing from another, to distinguish," related to scindere "to cut, divide," from PIE root *skei- "to cut, to split" (source also of Greek skhizein "to split, rend, cleave," Gothic skaidan, Old English sceadan"to divide, separate;" see schizo-). 

From late 14c. in English as "book-learning," also "a particular branch of knowledge or of learning;" also "skillfulness, cleverness; craftiness." From c. 1400 as "experiential knowledge;" also "a skill, handicraft; a trade." From late 14c. as "collective human knowledge" (especially that gained by systematic observation, experiment, and reasoning). Modern (restricted) sense of "body of regular or methodical observations or propositions concerning a particular subject or speculation" is attested from 1725; in 17c.-18c. this concept commonly was called philosophy. Sense of "non-arts studies" is attested from 1670s.
Science, since people must do it, is a socially embedded activity. It progresses by hunch, vision, and intuition. Much of its change through time does not record a closer approach to absolute truth, but the alteration of cultural contexts that influence it so strongly. Facts are not pure and unsullied bits of information; culture also influences what we see and how we see it. Theories, moreover, are not inexorable inductions from facts. The most creative theories are often imaginative visions imposed upon facts; the source of imagination is also strongly cultural. [Stephen Jay Gould, introduction to "The Mismeasure of Man," 1981] 
In science you must not talk before you know. In art you must not talk before you do. In literature you must not talk before you think. [John Ruskin, "The Eagle's Nest," 1872]
The distinction is commonly understood as between theoretical truth (Greek episteme) and methods for effecting practical results (tekhne), but science sometimes is used for practical applications and art for applications of skill. To blind (someone) with science "confuse by the use of big words or complex explanations" is attested from 1937, originally noted as a phrase from Australia and New Zealand.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=science

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

Yusuf Ali: Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?

Yusuf Ali: And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.

No mention of extending anything.  The Quran is  silent on the “big bang” ; the cosmology in the Quran is geocentric, with a flat earth at the center of the universe surrounded by seven solid spheres (the “seven heavens”) within which orbited the stars, planets, sun and moon.

No mention of Big Bang, galaxies, or clusters of galaxies, or quasars and pulsars or any of the other things that could have easily been mentioned and left us without any doubt.

There are no "miracles" in the Quran, nothing in the Book predicts scientific events that are going to happen in the future, the fact that the Quran is NOT used as a reference by the world's leading scientists in any field is evident that the Quran is WORTHLESS in science. 

First of all, you must eliminate "bias" before speaking for religious matter, for there is no reason to put argument before you. 

You say that there is nothing in the Quran which says about Big bang, true that Quran does not mention the word "Big Bang" but it do says that Heavens and Earth were joined together before we clove them as under. It may have many interpretations and one such interpretation is "Heaven may refer to atmosphere" and "Earth may refers to matter". And to further strengthen this argument, Imam Ali a.s said that when God created Heaven, He AWJ created it with water and then he made certain changes in it and make it so constructed as it is now, for that you must read "Nahjul Balagha". So, this is what Big bang theory imitate.that atmosphere and matter came into being after Big bang theory. Now, if you are doubtful for that then it is your bias towards Islam that is halting your reason to admit it. 

وَالسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ {47}

The word here "Lemoseoon" has many meanings and is derived from word "Wasih" which means "extending or making spacious". 

So, some translators mean it making it vast and some translators translated it ample. Different translators different meanings. However, both meanings interpret same thing that Allah says that I make creation ample or vast. So, in both meanings our meaning is established. 

There is another thing, I want to tell you.

Allah says in Quran that We create the things and then destroy it and then reproduce and to us shall you be brought back.

So, this also explains about new stars created every now and then and then they are destroyed through black holes which science could not see for quite a long time and then it said that universe is only expanding but when found black holes are there, science said it contracts at some areas as well.

In Surah, Yaseen, Allah says that Sun and moon has their courses and everyone is moving along its course. Science was blind to this fact and only in 19th century, it knew that Sun is also following a route in the Milky way along with it's solar family. But still if your bias does not end what can be do brother for you.

As for baqar's advice, we have packed everything against you, and it is you who jump and come from nowhere, while no one welcomed you. Why do not you go and sleep bro and take some rest instead of putting effort in something that neither your ego let's you to accept nor your effort make any change. :) 

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22 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

and it is you who jump and come from nowhere, while no one welcomed you.

I have been on the Forum many years; you are the first person that tells me I am not welcome.

You are showing your true face: those who do not agree are not welcome...specially when you are wrong.

The difference between your opinion and mine is that mine is right.

P.S. You can always include me in your 'ignore list'.

Edited by Quisant

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

I have been on the Forum many years; you are the first person that tells me I am not welcome.

You are showing your true face: those who do not agree are not welcome...specially when you are wrong.

The difference between your opinion and mine is that mine is right.

P.S. You can always include me in your 'ignore list'.

Why should I keep you in my ignore list till there is hope that you may become humble in your speech as long as I come here. And when I leave this place neither you nor I will see each other.

If you consider your opinion to be true, I see it as your obstinacy not to accept that you are wrong brother.  In my view you are wrong but you can have your opinion if you wish to live a misled life.

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

have been on the Forum many years; you are the first person that tells me I am not welcome.

You are most welcome Quisant.

Good to see you're back :)

1 hour ago, Quisant said:

The difference between your opinion and mine is that mine is right.

May I ask what is your opinion? God does not exist or you dont know whether He exists or not?

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On 8/5/2017 at 6:23 PM, Quisant said:

There is no science, the Quran is a book of guidance.

You speak Arabic ? I think no,A 12 years old can translate those verses you gave into the correct trnaslation,they are not really doing what do they want,if so,why believe ? 

 

Age of Earth is 1/3 age of universe.

Atmosphere Shields Earth from radiations and small debris bombardment.

Life in the universe is water based.

Earth is a rotating sphere.

Burning sensation are from nerves in outer skin.

Bones form before muscles.

The frontal part of the brain handles lies.

Worker bees are all females.

Water on Earth came from Comets in outer space.

All stars and planets have orbits.

All those are from the Quran,scientific facts that couldn't be known 1,400 years ago,what about an illiterate shepherd ? Who was the reason of 22 territorial empires and a great civilization known for it's architecture and science achievements ,this shepherd ? Hmm..

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22 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

If you consider your opinion to be true, I see it as your obstinacy not to accept that you are wrong brother.  In my view you are wrong but you can have your opinion if you wish to live a misled life.

I don't live a 'misled life', maybe you do.

Turkeys live their lives believing that there is a Beneficent Sustainer who gives them life, feeds them and cares for them. They discover the truth a few days before they are eaten.

Eventually ..all the knots come to the comb.

22 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Good to see you're back :)

Thank you for that.

Unfortunately I am very busy at the moment and can only post stuff now and then.

22 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

May I ask what is your opinion? God does not exist or you dont know whether He exists or not?

I told you before, I don't believe in the supernatural, I don't think there are such things as Gods, Jinns, Angels,heaven and hell, etc.

I don't choose my beliefs. They come naturally as I become convinced of their content.
 

But It would be arrogant for me to claim that there is no God, I never argue that God does not exist, I argue that there is no proof of God.

I am sure that If there existed an Omnipotent God who wished me to know and love Him, it would be the case that I know. That is not the case.

I am always prepared to follow evidence and reason wherever it may lead.

ws.

*

 

 

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1 minute ago, Quisant said:

I don't live a 'misled life', maybe you do.

Turkeys live their lives believing that there is a Beneficent Sustainer who gives them life, feeds them and cares for them. They discover the truth a few days before they are eaten.

Eventually ..all the knots come to the comb.

Meeting death does not mean that there is no God lolz. If there is no God then could you refuse death just try it, you cannot avoid death neither truth and this is truth that you are weak before God who created death for you. 

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3 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Meeting death does not mean that there is no God lolz. If there is no God then could you refuse death just try it, you cannot avoid death neither truth and this is truth that you are weak before God who created death for you. 

Nobody is talking about meeting or refusing death.

Never mind....

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Just now, Quisant said:

Nobody is talking about meeting or refusing death.

Never mind....

Yeah, the problem with Atheists is just that if there are disease, there is no God....but they do not see, the who causes diseases and are there not cures for it. Just Atheists disappointment is what they worship lolz. 

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

 I never argue that God does not exist, I argue that there is no proof of God.

:) This means you are on safe side. Not yet doomed.

What do you think about historical characters Mosas, Jesus etc. The miracles they showed to people? 

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16 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

What do you think about historical characters Mosas, Jesus etc. The miracles they showed to people? 

It is possible that two individuals named Moses and Jesus did exist, but I don't think that the miracles associated with them ever happened.

Egyptians kept uninterrupted and accurate records what was going on in their world, there is no mention of ten plagues, parting of sea or other stories related to the Exodus.

“Moses himself has about as much historic reality as King Arthur,” British archaeologist Philip Davies famously concluded. Interesting article here:  https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/nov/30/moses-man-versus-myth-ridley-scott

 

Similarly Judaism does not consider Jesus to be a miracle worker, a prophet, the messiah, or the son of God. 

Personally, I think Jesus was an itinerant sage who practiced faith healing relieving afflictions we now consider psychosomatic.
I don't believe He walked on water, fed the multitude with loaves and fishes, changed water into wine or raised Lazarus from the dead.

wslm.

*
 

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28 minutes ago, Quisant said:

It is possible that two individuals named Moses and Jesus did exist, but I don't think that the miracles associated with them ever happened.

Egyptians kept uninterrupted and accurate records what was going on in their world, there is no mention of ten plagues, parting of sea or other stories related to the Exodus.

“Moses himself has about as much historic reality as King Arthur,” British archaeologist Philip Davies famously concluded. Interesting article here:  https://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/nov/30/moses-man-versus-myth-ridley-scott

 

Similarly Judaism does not consider Jesus to be a miracle worker, a prophet, the messiah, or the son of God. 

Personally, I think Jesus was an itinerant sage who practiced faith healing relieving afflictions we now consider psychosomatic.
I don't believe He walked on water, fed the multitude with loaves and fishes, changed water into wine or raised Lazarus from the dead.

wslm.

*
 

Please go through Hindu books, where it has been said that great flood took place and they named the savior of that great flood as "Mahanuvu" which is translated as "Maha = great and Nuvu = Noah". So, there is historical record for that. About Prophet Moses a.s, you may have reservations because there is no other record other than Bible in the ancient time but about Jesus a.s, the Jews called his miracles to be magic which is often attributed to prophet and the went on saying that Jesus a.s learned that magic from Babylon or so forth. 

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4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Please go through Hindu books, where it has been said that great flood took place and they named the savior of that great flood as "Mahanuvu" which is translated as "Maha = great and Nuvu = Noah". So, there is historical record for that.

These are not historical records, they are stories.

I think the Global Flood is a myth for the simple reason that It didn’t work! 

The purpose of the exercise is that mankind was wicked and everything had to be  destroyed — except for Noah, his righteous family. 
Unfortunately God's action (to abolish wickedness)  was a colossal futility! There is still plenty of wickedness in the world, which means the planetary slaughter was not only cruel but it was also pointless.  Such behavior is incompatible with the nature of God, so the only rational conclusion is that the Flood is a myth.

Also, cities were usually built by river banks, on flood plains so flooding events were quite frequent and appear in many cultures. I believe that  Noah's Flood was borrowed from the much earlier Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.

The tech reasons an 'actual global flood' event is impossible are here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
 

4 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

And I am sorry for my rash behavior brother as I violated my Imams' injunction to treat anyone harshly. You are most welcome to come here, I am just a member of this shiachat and have no right to say you go away. Please accept my apology. 

You needn't worry, already forgotten, I am sure you are a nice person.

You were probably a little frustrated by my obstinacy and arrogance...I would have too. :)

wslm.

*

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1 hour ago, Quisant said:

These are not historical records, they are stories.

I think the Global Flood is a myth for the simple reason that It didn’t work! 

The purpose of the exercise is that mankind was wicked and everything had to be  destroyed — except for Noah, his righteous family. 
Unfortunately God's action (to abolish wickedness)  was a colossal futility! There is still plenty of wickedness in the world, which means the planetary slaughter was not only cruel but it was also pointless.  Such behavior is incompatible with the nature of God, so the only rational conclusion is that the Flood is a myth.

Also, cities were usually built by river banks, on flood plains so flooding events were quite frequent and appear in many cultures. I believe that  Noah's Flood was borrowed from the much earlier Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.

The tech reasons an 'actual global flood' event is impossible are here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
 

You needn't worry, already forgotten, I am sure you are a nice person.

You were probably a little frustrated by my obstinacy and arrogance...I would have too. :)

wslm.

*

As for you those personalities, we have historical accounts which we refer as divine books and also quotes of enemies who denied them such as of Jews called Jesus to be a mage so you can't deny them as stories. If they were stories please trace the record as to who made them and their history which I am sure you cannot do that.

Anything which is not conceivable due to our limited approach does not mean that it was entirely futile and flooding was a punishment to those who were always asking for punishment. 

Secondly, there are thousands of irrelevant posts and articles on Internet speaking without any established fact which say that flooding did not took place. So they have no value like those that say that universe is 15 or 20 billion years old.

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2 hours ago, Quisant said:

I think the Global Flood is a myth for the simple reason that It didn’t work! 

The purpose of the exercise is that mankind was wicked and everything had to be  destroyed — except for Noah, his righteous family. 
Unfortunately God's action (to abolish wickedness)  was a colossal futility! There is still plenty of wickedness in the world, which means the planetary slaughter was not only cruel but it was also pointless.  Such behavior is incompatible with the nature of God, so the only rational conclusion is that the Flood is a myth.

What is the nature of God?

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On 6/6/2017 at 6:23 AM, Quisant said:

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, Big bang cosmology, a by-product of theoretical physics, infers the existence of a singularity which expanded into our universe but currently does not have the means to explain the nature of the singularity.

This universe and all there is in it evolved by self-organisation of matter towards more and more complex structures.  Atoms, stars and galaxies self-assembled out of the fundamental particles produced by the Big Bang which came into existence from a Singularity, not out of nothing. 

The singularity is the only thing necessary to explain the existence of the universe. 

You need to define what you mean by "began." If you mean "came into existence ex nihilo," then no, it's not at all plausible. 
We have zero evidence of anything ever coming into existence ex nihilo. Matter and energy change form, but they are never created or destroyed. This is such a constant that it is incorporated into the laws of thermodynamics.
( Surely God wouldn't violate the laws of thermodynamics; even if you hold the belief He could, what does it say about His quality of creating the law in the first place then? Must not of been a very good law, ect..)

The one big question among cosmologists is "what was the state of the Universe before Planck time?" Mr Stephen Hawking's answer is that time existed, but was 'curved' back on itself, or "folded up." We know that space-time is curved, and that this curvature becomes more extreme in the region around heavy, dense objects such as stars or black holes. Gravity distorts space-time. 

wslm.

*

The people here select from Modern science only those parts that fit into their puny little imaginations of some god who randomly decided to magically create this world out of nothing.  It is the same way they force their own deluded interpretations onto to the Quran in order to make it seem that the Quran has "Scientific Miracles".  

Edited by eThErEaL

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5 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The people here select from Modern science only those parts that fit into their puny little imaginations of some god who randomly decided to magically create this world out of nothing.  It is the same way they force their own deluded interpretations onto to the Quran in order to make it seem that the Quran has "Scientific Miracles".  

Well our belief has strong foundation while you have no foundation for your disbelief. You believe in lies knowing that they are lies. 

Universe created by chance, world created by chance, bacteria by chance, animals by chance, human by chance, intelligence by chance and natural laws by chance.

Lolz chance is something that happens only seldom while these are frequently happenings that are called processes and processes require intelligence.

The difference between you and us is that we believe in truth and you believe a lie that you don't admit by speech but are aware in hearts.

Edited by Sindbad05

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2 hours ago, Sindbad05 said:

Well our belief has strong foundation while you have no foundation for your disbelief. You believe in lies knowing that they are lies. 

Universe created by chance, world created by chance, bacteria by chance, animals by chance, human by chance, intelligence by chance and natural laws by chance.

Lolz chance is something that happens only seldom while these are frequently happenings that are called processes and processes require intelligence.

The difference between you and us is that we believe in truth and you believe a lie that you don't admit by speech but are aware in hearts.

I am sorry brother.... but I do not believe in a world created by chance.  

But you seem seem to believe in a world created by chance, I shall explain why I think so.  

Please let me know if I am correct and if I wrong please let me know which parts you disagree with and WHY you disagree with it:

You believe in a god who was all by himself and all alone.  Then, 13.7 billion years ago, all of a sudden, and as if by chance, or by randomness, your god arbitrarily found it wise to create the world.  Can I ask what he was doing before 13.7 billion years ago?  Isn't that a very random number?  Or is that a special number that your god likes (even though numbers where probably not themselves created at that point).  

The scientific atheist believes in order and wisdom in the universe more than you do.  You believe in a god who randomly decides to create.  An Atheist makes more sense.

 

Edited by eThErEaL

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

The scientific atheist believes in order and wisdom in the universe more than you do.  You believe in a god who randomly decides to create.  An Atheist makes more sense.

Whether through Philosophical or Scientific modals and representation,It can’t be proved that God doesn’t exist.

In fact proves are more overwhelming.

Atheism and denying an infinite reason that caused a finite Universe or rather “Multiverse” As it is expanding like a rose. It relies on skepticism more than actual arguments/evidences.Biggest misconception is that scientists are atheists. Although more than 80% are religious.

Beginning = Big Bang.

End = Big crunch.

Since 0=/=1.

We still aren’t sure if God is the energy that cause us to begin,a metaphysical energy,a hearing-sounding energy that breathed life into Humans,makes more sense of logic than a small cell that in a “Mythical” way Happened to be today’s mankind with DNA and perfect body systems,of great height of performing levels and such sensitive body.

How ever religions such as Islam and Judaism say a perfect logic of 1=1,A designer/creator/engineer who “built”(metaphorically) a Multiverse.

Spiritual messages aren’t easy if you mean.Creating a one ? By Muhammad ? The illiterate shepherd.

Many religions have been made up,indeed polytheism such as Egyptian religion,Roman paganism,Greek,Phoenician etc…

How ever in the Quran(contrary to what you hear from the media) happens to have much scientific miracles.

"If you study science deep enough and long enough,it will force you to believe in God" -William Thomson.(known as Lord Kelvin).

I invite you through here: http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/  (for about the 5th time)

Einsteins' explanation: 

Your question is the most difficult in the world. It is not a question I can answer simply with yes or no. I am not an Atheist. I do not know if I can define myself as a Pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. May I not reply with a parable? The human mind, no matter how highly trained, cannot grasp the universe. We are in the position of a little child, entering a huge library whose walls are covered to the ceiling with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written those books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books, a mysterious order, which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of the human mind, even the greatest and most cultured, toward God. We see a universe marvelously arranged, obeying certain laws, but we understand the laws only dimly. Our limited minds cannot grasp the mysterious force that sways the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza's Pantheism. I admire even more his contributions to modern thought. Spinoza is the greatest of modern philosophers, because he is the first philosopher who deals with the soul and the body as one, not as two separate things.

Edited by M.IB

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4 hours ago, eThErEaL said:

I am sorry brother.... but I do not believe in a world created by chance.  

But you seem seem to believe in a world created by chance, I shall explain why I think so.  

Please let me know if I am correct and if I wrong please let me know which parts you disagree with and WHY you disagree with it:

You believe in a god who was all by himself and all alone.  Then, 13.7 billion years ago, all of a sudden, and as if by chance, or by randomness, your god arbitrarily found it wise to create the world.  Can I ask what he was doing before 13.7 billion years ago?  Isn't that a very random number?  Or is that a special number that your god likes (even though numbers where probably not themselves created at that point).  

The scientific atheist believes in order and wisdom in the universe more than you do.  You believe in a god who randomly decides to create.  An Atheist makes more sense.

Lolz, brother, you are entirely wrong and like you believed in chances, you also took help through speculation on the basis that may be I can understand this person and such speculation is chance itself. You are totally wrong but I do not speculate about you without knowing you. See whatever you say that Atheists believe are right and we are wrong so it shows you believe in them as well so how can you refuse not to believe in chance as what they propound theory of chance.

About God, you say that how does he after so much years randomly selects a time that you count as 13.7 billion years ago. First of all, friend let me clear you about God. Are you sure that God was idle before you were created ? No He AWJ was not idle and created your father and forefathers while you had not existed. But when you got intellect, you begin to think that may be science is right and world existed 13.7 billion years ago. While science cannot deny that there are other realms, it is a fact that  science which discovered the age of it's universe according to its knowledge is unaware about other creations besides universe right ? And, logically this is a valid Statement. So, how you gonna prove that God was indeed idle before the creation of this universe and He AWJ did not create other universes.So, Atheists are thinking about where they are living and have not thought of other realms which exist. 

Secondly, there is no time for God and no special number, 13.7 billion is time when it started right and this time depended upon will of God. If God had willed, he would have created our world after 50 billion years ago so, So, it is all about His will, As in Quran says God says that I created Heavens and Earth in six days and if I had wished, I would have created it in no time, but He willed to teach us His Hikmah and discipline our intellect by teaching us process. 

Whatever you think about Atheists bro, they are before me obstinate and idiots. 

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