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I like the Sufi's bvery much and they definitely have some concepts and przctices other sects lost through time.

The things I do not share with them is the obedience to rulers even though it is proven they act against Islam and their lack of Jihadism in times it's obligatory.

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16 hours ago, IbnMariam said:

One has to wonder, if the sayed does not understand it, that would suggest it's not a concept that the scholars have been adhering to since the early days but rather it came much later, and so presumably the ahlulbayt (as) never preached it. It begs the question, why is the concept even being preached and taught? The thaqalayn are enough for us to understand all we need to know, surely foreign concepts must be discouraged and not normalised as islamic dogma.

Wahdat al-Wujood is something studied after completing Hawza can be understood. My brother has done 7 years of Philosophy and still he cannot fully understand the concept, so your judgement is wrong.

And you can't base something is not good because it wasn't found in our early scholars because I can turn around and say nor were Hadiths against Sufism found in early scholarly works. 

 

You cannot also say it wasn't taught by the Ahlulbayt since as I said this is something very difficult to understand and few have come to truly understand it so brother please stay out of wether it was from Ahlulbayt or not before you make a comment about it. I still have not understood even a bit so all what I do is just defend the people whom believed in it since they may have read a hadith which you and I haven't.

 

khudahafez

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28 minutes ago, Yahya313 said:

Wahdat al-Wujood is something studied after completing Hawza can be understood. My brother has done 7 years of Philosophy and still he cannot fully understand the concept, so your judgement is wrong.

And you can't base something is not good because it wasn't found in our early scholars because I can turn around and say nor were Hadiths against Sufism found in early scholarly works. 

 

You cannot also say it wasn't taught by the Ahlulbayt since as I said this is something very difficult to understand and few have come to truly understand it so brother please stay out of wether it was from Ahlulbayt or not before you make a comment about it. I still have not understood even a bit so all what I do is just defend the people whom believed in it since they may have read a hadith which you and I haven't.

 

khudahafez

So in other words, it's an idea regarding Allah that is so complicated that you don't even understand it. Your brother, having studied philosophy for seven years, doesn't understand it. Sayed Al-Khoei, the head of the scholars of Najaf who I'm sure studied philosophy longer than your brother, he didn't understand it. Doesn't sound like it came from the Ahlulbayt to me. Yet you defend this idea as if it's Islamically legitimate because apparently we're supposed to trust that a select few individuals understand it and confirm that there are no problems with it.  Lol, nice coherent worldview you got there m8. I've got a better idea, let's just stick to what the Ahlulbayt and the Qur'an tell us true theology is. Anything regarding Allah which they did not affirm is incorrect doctrine, so at least understand what you're defending first before you have the audacity to tell somebody to know their place.

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2 minutes ago, IbnMariam said:

So in other words, it's an idea regarding Allah that is so complicated that you don't even understand it. Your brother, having studied philosophy for seven years, doesn't understand it. Sayed Al-Khoei, the head of the scholars of Najaf who I'm sure studied philosophy longer than your brother, he didn't understand it. Doesn't sound like it came from the Ahlulbayt to me. Yet you defend this idea as if it's Islamically legitimate because apparently we're supposed to trust that a select few individuals understand it and confirm that there are no problems with it.  Lol, nice coherent worldview you got there m8. I've got a better idea, let's just stick to what the Ahlulbayt and the Qur'an tell us true theology is. Anything regarding Allah which they did not affirm is incorrect doctrine, so at least understand what you're defending first before you have the audacity to tell somebody to know their place.

You leave the next part untouched. Ayatullah Taqi Bahjat understood it, Ayatullah Mutahhari understood it, Mullah Sadra understood it, Imam Khomeini understood it, Allamah Tabatabai understood it.

these people are one of the greatest scholars to have lived. But yet "they don't base upon Quran and Ahlulbayt". Show the humility Sayed al-Khoei showed please.

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1 minute ago, Yahya313 said:

You leave the next part untouched. Ayatullah Taqi Bahjat understood it, Ayatullah Mutahhari understood it, Mullah Sadra understood it, Imam Khomeini understood it, Allamah Tabatabai understood it.

these people are one of the greatest scholars to have lived. But yet "they don't base upon Quran and Ahlulbayt". Show the humility Sayed al-Khoei showed please.

You can mention several that adhere to it, I can mention several that don't, let's not play the my scholars vs your scholars game. Let's be objective about this. You've admitted you don't understand the concept, so why defend it so vehemently to the point you're rude to somebody when you sniff the possibility they don't agree with it? Until you can demonstrate that this idea comes from the thaqalayn (and from the sound of it you won't be able to for another 40 years), you're assuming it's correctness solely on the basis that a select number of scholars believe in it, ignoring the fact that so many others don't.

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14 minutes ago, IbnMariam said:

You can mention several that adhere to it, I can mention several that don't, let's not play the my scholars vs your scholars game. Let's be objective about this. You've admitted you don't understand the concept, so why defend it so vehemently to the point you're rude to somebody when you sniff the possibility they don't agree with it? Until you can demonstrate that this idea comes from the thaqalayn (and from the sound of it you won't be able to for another 40 years), you're assuming it's correctness solely on the basis that a select number of scholars believe in it, ignoring the fact that so many others don't.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude that was not my intention in any shape or form. I still haven't understood it because I only started getting into it not long ago. All I said is show the humility that other scholars who do not agree or don't understand it that they at least say that it's subject to debate. 

Also as I said, the Ulema have read many Hadith so each derives and comprehends the Ahadith differently.

khudaHafez

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Assalamualaikum my brothers and sisters,

First of all, I realy don't know how I can explain our problems in Turkey. Please, don't care AleviTurkmenKhorasan's views. In They are not Muslims. Actually no, I don't say it, They usually say about theirsevles. They are a cult. They are not a sect of Shia Islam or Islam but probably they can be a sect of Ghulat. 

I was a Alevi-Bektashi. Do you know that you cannot convert into Alevism? If you want to be Alevi, you have to come a family which has roots of Alevism, you have to come from Qizilbashs. It is a race. You can see that being a Alevi means being like a Jew. In fact, you can just a Bektashi not Alevi. In the end, I hope you understand why ''Alevi''Turkmen just do propaganda of Bektashism. 

Alhamdulillah. I left from these ezoretic cults. 

Actually, I want to give examples about them. For instance, they don't care salah/praying because they say that salah isn't written in Quran(!). However, they do cem/jem in Thursdays and they believe that Hadrat Muhammad (pbuh) did it. We've already known that music is haram. The truth is that haram which is in Islam is not haram for them. They are againist Ramadan fasting. Mosques are not their places, they are aganist call to prayer. 

Inshallah, Alevi-Bektashis wake up. I've woken up. My family has rejected me because of salah. Do you believe that? Praying to Allah is a sin for them. In Turkey, being a Shia Muslim is too hard. However, it's not because of Sunnis, it is because of Alevi-Bektashis. Whenever you see somethings about Akevi-Bektashism, please remember me. 

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On 10/17/2017 at 10:20 AM, Yusuf Ali said:

Assalamualaikum my brothers and sisters,

First of all, I realy don't know how I can explain our problems in Turkey. Please, don't care AleviTurkmenKhorasan's views. In They are not Muslims. Actually no, I don't say it, They usually say about theirsevles. They are a cult. They are not a sect of Shia Islam or Islam but probably they can be a sect of Ghulat. 

I was a Alevi-Bektashi. Do you know that you cannot convert into Alevism? If you want to be Alevi, you have to come a family which has roots of Alevism, you have to come from Qizilbashs. It is a race. You can see that being a Alevi means being like a Jew. In fact, you can just a Bektashi not Alevi. In the end, I hope you understand why ''Alevi''Turkmen just do propaganda of Bektashism. 

Alhamdulillah. I left from these ezoretic cults. 

Actually, I want to give examples about them. For instance, they don't care salah/praying because they say that salah isn't written in Quran(!). However, they do cem/jem in Thursdays and they believe that Hadrat Muhammad (pbuh) did it. We've already known that music is haram. The truth is that haram which is in Islam is not haram for them. They are againist Ramadan fasting. Mosques are not their places, they are aganist call to prayer. 

Inshallah, Alevi-Bektashis wake up. I've woken up. My family has rejected me because of salah. Do you believe that? Praying to Allah is a sin for them. In Turkey, being a Shia Muslim is too hard. However, it's not because of Sunnis, it is because of Alevi-Bektashis. Whenever you see somethings about Akevi-Bektashism, please remember me. 

i really want to know about bektashis as im part albanian and spoke to a few anf they are very secretive one of them told me he did salah and dent me a picture of his turbah?

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In 30th August 1925, Ataturk said, ''Gentelmen, I want you and the whole nation to understand well that the Republic of Turkey can never be land of sheikhs, dervishes, disciples and lay -brothers.''

A few days later from that speech, The tekkes and zaviyes were closed by the Ordinance of September 2, 1925 in Turkey.

Furthermore, In the ''Nutuk'' (in chapter six) which is written by Ataturk asks to us, ''Can a civilized nation be looked upon by a group of humans who have been dragged behind a series of sheikhs, dedes, seyids, babas, and orders and who have left their captives and their lives to the hands of fortunets, wizards, murderers, muskacars?' 

These words are so important for understanding the Modern Turkey. Firstly we haveto know that Bektashis who live in Turkey, they have no any connection between Albanian tekkes or dergahs because they had a religious authority (the Postnishin Pir) in town of Hacıbektaş in city of Nevşehir.

They thought that the leader of Bektashi order has to become a children of Balim Sultan. The chidren are also called Chalabis (In Turkish: Çelebiler). In fact, Alevism and Bektashi order are not same things. However, lots of the Alevis says that I'm a Bektashi. Alevis says we accept the rules of Four Doors but they don't obey these rules. Now in Turkey, since from the last Postnishi (Ahmet Cemalettin Çelebi) who was exiled by Ataturk's goverment, Bektashis aren't recognized by anyone. In here, nobody can see dervishes. However, you can just see Alevis who are always saying we follow the way of Bektashis. Wherever you go in Turkey for a researching about Bektashi order, probably you can see only Alevis. 

We know that Haji Bektashi Veli says Muslims have to do salah/salat in the rules of Four Doors which in the book of Makalat (or Makalah). Unfortunately, modern Bektashis in Turkish, they don't do salah. I believe that Ataturk realy hated from Bektashis. When dergahs were closed by goverment, everything changed for Bektashi community. Yakup Kadri who is a the best friends of Ataturk wrote the ''Nur Baba''. That imaginary book which is written about Bektashi order can help to understand how much Ataturk and their friends hate from Bektashis. I hope I explained enough it what I'm saying. Thanks my brother for your good question.

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On 22/10/2017 at 12:50 PM, Yusuf Ali said:

In 30th August 1925, Ataturk said, ''Gentelmen, I want you and the whole nation to understand well that the Republic of Turkey can never be land of sheikhs, dervishes, disciples and lay -brothers.''

A few days later from that speech, The tekkes and zaviyes were closed by the Ordinance of September 2, 1925 in Turkey.

Furthermore, In the ''Nutuk'' (in chapter six) which is written by Ataturk asks to us, ''Can a civilized nation be looked upon by a group of humans who have been dragged behind a series of sheikhs, dedes, seyids, babas, and orders and who have left their captives and their lives to the hands of fortunets, wizards, murderers, muskacars?' 

These words are so important for understanding the Modern Turkey. Firstly we haveto know that Bektashis who live in Turkey, they have no any connection between Albanian tekkes or dergahs because they had a religious authority (the Postnishin Pir) in town of Hacıbektaş in city of Nevşehir.

They thought that the leader of Bektashi order has to become a children of Balim Sultan. The chidren are also called Chalabis (In Turkish: Çelebiler). In fact, Alevism and Bektashi order are not same things. However, lots of the Alevis says that I'm a Bektashi. Alevis says we accept the rules of Four Doors but they don't obey these rules. Now in Turkey, since from the last Postnishi (Ahmet Cemalettin Çelebi) who was exiled by Ataturk's goverment, Bektashis aren't recognized by anyone. In here, nobody can see dervishes. However, you can just see Alevis who are always saying we follow the way of Bektashis. Wherever you go in Turkey for a researching about Bektashi order, probably you can see only Alevis. 

We know that Haji Bektashi Veli says Muslims have to do salah/salat in the rules of Four Doors which in the book of Makalat (or Makalah). Unfortunately, modern Bektashis in Turkish, they don't do salah. I believe that Ataturk realy hated from Bektashis. When dergahs were closed by goverment, everything changed for Bektashi community. Yakup Kadri who is a the best friends of Ataturk wrote the ''Nur Baba''. That imaginary book which is written about Bektashi order can help to understand how much Ataturk and their friends hate from Bektashis. I hope I explained enough it what I'm saying. Thanks my brother for your good question.

This is wrong on so many levels

Have you met an Bektasi? Alevi and Bektasi is the same just like naksibendi being part of Sunni 

Alevis are Bektasi and vice versa

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