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On 8/5/2017 at 9:33 AM, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

 

Mysticism isn't Islamic. Sufism (mysticism) is false and deviant. Sufism is completely forbidden as per the Hadiths of our Imams (as).

Focus more on your religious matters and Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى, don't be attached to this worldly life, nor do obey your ego but Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى. This is how you reach spirituality, and Shi'a Islam is the only way to achieve the highest levels of a human being  @sidnaq

May Allah سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى bless and guide you!

umm sure thanks

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1 hour ago, iavswn said:

Shia demonizing sufism as unIslamic and against hadeeths of the prophet is just completely absurd.

All Sufi orders trace their original precepts from Muhammad through his son-in-law Ali.

Sufis maintain that through Ali knowledge about Muhammad and a connection with Muhammad may be attained.

Such a concept is understood by the hadith,  Sufis regard to be authentic, in which Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is reported to have said, "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate".

References:

1. https://www.al-islam.org/tahrif/cityofknowledge/

2. Journal of a Sufi Odyssey: A True Novel, Book 3; P. 461

3. http://www.alim.org/library/biography/khalifa/content/KAL/79/1

 

Mr.shia do not demonise sofism but they praise it.. They recognise sofism and irfan same. 

Yes some common masses because of ignorance talk bad. 

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18 minutes ago, islam25 said:

Mr.i don't think you are right. I have heard lectures from scholars of qum who are students of Mohhamad Hussain Tabatbaie and Ayatollah behjat and Ayatollah Hassanzadeh Amoli. It's these scholars who say irfan and sofism is same. Both teachs the following quran and Prophet puh in achieving spiritual purification from all sorts of sins and deviations. So that one recives devine wisdom and proximity of Allah. 

I don't consider "some scholars" of Qum as scholars... so to me this is not a good argument to justify the Sufi deviance.

11 minutes ago, islam25 said:

All the sofi orders teach how to become closer to Allah by gradually avoiding all sorts sin and constant remembering of Allah. And same is the teaching of Ahlulbayt as. But because our hatred we do not feel happy by word sofism because it's common in sunni dominant. But our liking or disliking has no value were truth is criteria. 

If you don't mind me to ask, which Sufi order are you part of?

Ahlulbayt (as) has condemned Sufis and those who follow them, the Sahih Hadiths are clear (I have replied earlier).

I don't really think we're understanding each other so I'm suggesting this lecture of Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQakze06P3Q

 

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What seems that you don't understand is that the Irfan our Imams (as) have spoken of is different from what the Sufi orders identify. 

For example the Hadith narrated by our Imams (as): "The completion of Irfan is to know us, and to know our enemies."

However the Sufis started creating false doctrine.... example, the four journeys is nowhere found on the teachings of Ahlulbayt (as). The deviant statements of their saints which oppose the Imams' (as) teachings and what Imams (as) said about them is enough proof to distance ourselves from them.

Again, you can find plenty of Sahih Hadiths on this topic:

 

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41 minutes ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

What seems that you don't understand is that the Irfan our Imams (as) have spoken of is different from what the Sufi orders identify. 

For example the Hadith narrated by our Imams (as): "The completion of Irfan is to know us, and to know our enemies."

However the Sufis started creating false doctrine.... example, the four journeys is nowhere found on the teachings of Ahlulbayt (as). The deviant statements of their saints which oppose the Imams' (as) teachings and what Imams (as) said about them is enough proof to distance ourselves from them.

Again, you can find plenty of Sahih Hadiths on this topic:

 

Mr. When Arifs like Behjat ra themselves says that Irfan and sofism is same. Why should I listen you  .

Yes if someone is deviant in the name of Irfan or sofism he is deviated. 

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1 hour ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

I don't consider "some scholars" of Qum as scholars... so to me this is not a good argument to justify the Sufi deviance.

If you don't mind me to ask, which Sufi order are you part of?

Ahlulbayt (as) has condemned Sufis and those who follow them, the Sahih Hadiths are clear (I have replied earlier).

I don't really think we're understanding each other so I'm suggesting this lecture of Sheikh Yasser Al Habib (ha):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQakze06P3Q

 

Let you follow yasir al habib. 

And let me follow Khomeini ,Ayatollah Behjat and Mohhamad Hussain Tabatabie. 

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2 hours ago, AleviTurkmenKhorasan said:

İmam Caferi Sadık, şah İsmail were Sufi

The people condemning are Şafî origin whom were converted to love Ahlibeyt 

What, looool... who cares about Shah Ismail (who was a ruler, monarch not a scholar), he is irrelevant on matters concerning religion.

As per Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq (as):

It has been reported that our pure Infallibles (peace be upon them) condemned the one who adopts the philosophers and Sufi’s path. When Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) was asked about Sufis, he answered: “they are our enemies, whoever is inclined towards them then he's one of them and will be resurrected with them. There will be people who claim they love us but they are inclined towards them and they try to be like them, call themselves with their name, and say what they say, whoever is inclined towards them he's not from us and we are innocent from him and whoever rejects them and refutes them he's like someone who performed Jihad against the disbelievers with the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his pure family)” (Safinatul Bihar, by al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 57)"

I have suggested a post on the topic of what our Imams (as) said about Sufism and I'm tired of it... at least read my posts fully and search my suggestion I posted. Let me show it again:

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1 hour ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

What, looool... who cares about Shah Ismail (who was a ruler, monarch not a scholar), he is irrelevant on matters concerning religion.

As per Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq (as):

It has been reported that our pure Infallibles (peace be upon them) condemned the one who adopts the philosophers and Sufi’s path. When Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) was asked about Sufis, he answered: “they are our enemies, whoever is inclined towards them then he's one of them and will be resurrected with them. There will be people who claim they love us but they are inclined towards them and they try to be like them, call themselves with their name, and say what they say, whoever is inclined towards them he's not from us and we are innocent from him and whoever rejects them and refutes them he's like someone who performed Jihad against the disbelievers with the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his pure family)” (Safinatul Bihar, by al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 57)"

I have suggested a post on the topic of what our Imams (as) said about Sufism and I'm tired of it... at least read my posts fully and search my suggestion I posted. Let me show it again:

I will get back to you, but my references will be in Turkish brother

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10 hours ago, islam25 said:

Mr.shia do not demonise sofism but they praise it.. They recognise sofism and irfan same. 

SheikhAlHabib'fan <-- He does

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5 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

What, looool... who cares about Shah Ismail (who was a ruler, monarch not a scholar), he is irrelevant on matters concerning religion.

As per Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq (as):

It has been reported that our pure Infallibles (peace be upon them) condemned the one who adopts the philosophers and Sufi’s path. When Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) was asked about Sufis, he answered: “they are our enemies, whoever is inclined towards them then he's one of them and will be resurrected with them. There will be people who claim they love us but they are inclined towards them and they try to be like them, call themselves with their name, and say what they say, whoever is inclined towards them he's not from us and we are innocent from him and whoever rejects them and refutes them he's like someone who performed Jihad against the disbelievers with the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his pure family)” (Safinatul Bihar, by al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 57)"

I have suggested a post on the topic of what our Imams (as) said about Sufism and I'm tired of it... at least read my posts fully and search my suggestion I posted. Let me show it again:

This is an opinion NOT FACTual evidence.

Edited by iavswn

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45 minutes ago, iavswn said:

This is an opinion not a FACT.

Brother, criticism by a great scholar is an opinion, not a fact? What about Ibn Arabi's and Rumi's judgments... they were opinions not facts right?

The open criticism of Sufi theology that has been done by Shirazi and Qazwini scholars is an opinion not a fact lol, what makes it less truer than your beliefs that have no base of Ahlulbayt's (as) teachings?

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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Blindly following Imams  exhibits great ignorance.

Imam Malik: "Indeed I am a human, I can make mistakes, and I can be correct, so look into my opinion, everything that is in agreement with the Book and the Sunnah, then take it, and everything that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah then leave it." (Jamia’ Bayyan al-Ilm’ 1/775)

Imam Abu Hanifa said to his student Abu Yusuf: “Woe be to you Ya’qoob. Do not write down everything you hear from me, for surely I may hold an opinion today and leave it tomorrow, hold another tomorrow and leave it the day after."

(Reported by ‘Abbaas and ad-Dooree in at-Taareekh by Ibn Mu’een vol.6, p.88)

Imam Abu Hanifa: "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

[Ar halaal, Ibn `Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa' fi Fadaa'il ath-Thalaathah al- A'immah al-Fuqahaa' (Page 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam al- Mooqi'een (2/309), Ibn `Aabideen in his Footnotes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29,32) & Sha'raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55]

Imam ash-Shaafi’ee: “Our school of thought is correct but could possibly be mistaken, and the school of thought which differs from us is mistaken but could possibly be correct.” (Fatawa Al-Kubra of Al-Haythami 4/313)

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal: "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took."
(Fulaani p. 113& Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam 2/302)

 

 

Edited by iavswn

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20 minutes ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

Brother, criticism of a great scholar is an opinion, not a fact? What about Ibn Arabi's and Rumi's judgments... they were opinions not facts right?

The open criticism of Sufi theology that has been done by Shirazi and Qazwini scholars is an opinion not a fact lol, what makes it less truer than your beliefs that have no base of Ahlulbayt's (as) teachings?

Brother, you are suffering from Belief perseverance. 

Edited by iavswn

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10 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Brother, you are suffering from Belief perseverance.

Brother (in humanity), you are suffering from assumptions that have no base upon Ahlulbayt's (as) teachings.

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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10 minutes ago, iavswn said:

Blindly following Imams  exhibits great ignorance.

"Indeed I am a human, I can make mistakes, and I can be correct, so look into my opinion, everything that is in agreement with the Book and the Sunnah, then take it, and everything that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah then leave it." (Jamia’ Bayyan al-Ilm’ 1/775)

Imam Abu Hanifa said to his student Abu Yusuf: “Woe be to you Ya’qoob. Do not write down everything you hear from me, for surely I may hold an opinion today and leave it tomorrow, hold another tomorrow and leave it the day after."

(Reported by ‘Abbaas and ad-Dooree in at-Taareekh by Ibn Mu’een vol.6, p.88)

Imam Abu Hanifa: "It is not permitted for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them."

[Ar halaal, Ibn `Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa' fi Fadaa'il ath-Thalaathah al- A'immah al-Fuqahaa' (Page 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam al- Mooqi'een (2/309), Ibn `Aabideen in his Footnotes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa'iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29,32) & Sha'raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55]

Imam ash-Shaafi’ee: “Our school of thought is correct but could possibly be mistaken, and the school of thought which differs from us is mistaken but could possibly be correct.” (Fatawa Al-Kubra of Al-Haythami 4/313)

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal: "Do not follow my opinion; neither follow the opinion of Maalik, nor Shaafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took."
(Fulaani p. 113& Ibn al-Qayyim in I'laam 2/302)

I'm Ithna Asheri Shi'a, and according to our theology the Imams (as) are infallible and sinless. Just another proof that you're not connected to our belief.

Showing statements made by Sunni Imams loooool..

Edited by SheikhAlHabib'fan

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On 8/2/2017 at 10:56 AM, M.IB said:

What is the core believes of sufis anyways ?

Classical Sufi scholars define Tasawwuf as "a science whose objective is the reparation of the heart and turning it away from all else but God".

Source: Ahmed Zarruq, Zaineb Istrabadi, Hamza Yusuf Hanson. The Principles of Sufism. Amal Press. 2008.

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Every sect is wrong, not a Single Ahlibeyt were sectarianism, it was the pupils whom established the sects.

I doubt Ehlibeyt will say such a thing, if that was the case Sah ISmail will never say he is Sufi

Our Alevi Elders chose Islam EHLI-BEYT belief, we are not similar to Sunni or SHIA, we respect all 72 beliefs, no gender seperation etc

Turkistan Saints,

Horasan Saints

Rumeli Saints.

Alevi İslam anlayışı, Hallac-ı Mansur, Ebül Vefa, Ahmet Yesevî, Hüseyin Gazi, Seyyit Battal Gazi, Baba İlyas, Hacı Bektaş Velî, Ahi Evren, Mevlana Celaleddîn Rumî, Sarı Saltuk, Karaca Ahmet, Hıdır Abdal Sultan, Sarı İsmail, Abdal Musa, Şeyh Edebalî, Şeyh Safî, Geyikli Baba, Taptuk Emre, Aşık Paşa, Akyazılı Sultan,Sultan Şucaeddin Velî, Kaygusiz Abdal, Yunus Emre, Kolu Açık Hacım Sultan, Seyit Ali Sultan (Kızıl Deli), Otman Baba, Barak Baba, Hacı Bayram Velî, Fazlullah Hurufî, Seyyid Nesimî, Balım Sultan Pîr Sultan Abdal, Şah İsmail (Hataî), Kalender Çelebî, Oğlan Şeyh (İbrahim Maşukî) etc, Kuran’ı en iyi yorumlayan filozof velilerin görüşlerinden ilham alarak hayat alanı bulmuştur. Anadolu'yu İslamlaştıran bir yorumdur.

 

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Alevî mystic Hacı bektaş veli:

Seek and find.

To search / investigate is an open exam.

A path without knowledge will end in darkness.

Be in control of your hands (actions), tongue (speech), and loins (desires).

Whatever you do, do it for the Truth.

There exists in you a “there is” to replace every “there isn't.”

He who walks the Path never tires.

There is no rank or station higher than the Friend's heart.

The one who is wise but doesn't share his wisdom is ignorant.

To the ignorant, abandoning what is no longer needed is death; to the wise it is birth.

There is no repentance of repentance.

Let your heart, your hand, and your table be open to others.

Look for the key to all within your deepest being.

Whatever you seek, look within.

Do not forget your enemy is also a human being.

The beauty of human beings is the beauty of their words.

If the path appears dark, know that the veil is in your own eyes.

All blessings upon the one who overlooks another's shortcomings.

All blessings upon the one who makes a secret of secrets.

The Word (Quran) is Truth.

Do not hurt others, even if you are hurt.

Hand-in-hand, hand in Truth.

One hour of meditation is better than seventy years of piety.

The greatest book to read is the human being.

Be connected to your religion with your heart, not with your knees.

Educate your women, a nation that doesn't educate its women cannot progress.[33]

Prophets and saints are a gift from God to mankind.

Our path is based on the akhlaq of Muhammad and the adab of Ali.

The basis of Islam is akhlaq, the basis of akhlaq is knowledge, the basis of knowledge is intellect.

Whatever the language, religion or color of one might be, a good human being is a good human being.

A man who wastes his time while his heart is full of love for God, is better than a man who reads the Qur'an day and night while his heart is filled with the desire of this world.

For those who have Awareness, a hint is quite enough. For the multitudes of heedless, mere knowledge is useless.

The Quran is a letter from the Loving One to the beloved.

O dervish, know that the Quran is the Word of God, and a book that is revealed to the Prophet to appoint him as a messenger to mankind.[34]

A dervish should spend all his time with Allah, all his breath should be spent telling about Allah.

Doing good in return for evil is essence of being human.

Never desire fame, fame is disaster.

He who cannot clean himself cannot clean others.

First door of those with knowledge is decency.

Haqq (Allah) is more visible than the sun.[35]

Honesty is the door of a friend.

Being a teacher is to give, not to take.

The universe is for man, and man for the universe.

Science illuminates the paths of truth.

We travel in the way of science/knowledge, comprehension and human love.

Let’s be one, be big and energetic.

In the language of friendly conversation, you can’t discriminate between man and woman.

Everything God has created is in order.

There is no need to discriminate between religions. Religions cause disputes among people. In fact, all religions aim to provide peace and brotherhood on earth

Any road that doesn’t follow science, ends in darkness,
Give education to women,
Control on your tongue, hands and waist,
The greatest book to read is man himself,
Honesty is the door of a friend,
Being a teacher is to give, not to take,
The universe is for man, and man for the universe,
Science illuminates the paths of truth,
We travel in the way of science, comprehension and human love,
Clean where you’ve settled and deserve the money you’ve made,
Let’s be one, be big and energetic,
Don’t hurt anyone, even though you’ve been hurt,
Don’t ask anyone for anything that would be difficult for you to do,
Don’t blame any nation or individual,
Blessed are those who illuminate the darkness of thought,
Keep on searching, and you’ll find,
The beauty of the face consists of the words you speak,
Don’t forget that even your enemy is human,
The biggest God-given miracle is work,
In the language of friendly conversation, you can’t discriminate between man and woman,
Everything God has created is in order,
To us, there’s no difference between man and woman,
If you think there is, you’re mistaken.
His thoughts are based on human love and human existence. This vision is similar to the 1948 Charter on Human Rights. His thoughts were also shared by M. Kemal Atatürk 600 years later, and the Turkish Republic was built on the principles of secularism, democracy and respect for human rights. His thoughts are still alive and still lighten the way for many people.

It’s not the trivet but the fire gives the heat,
The miracle is not in the crown but in the khirkah (woolen garment worn by a dervish)
Whatever you’re searching for, search in yourself,
It’s neither in Jerusalem, Mecca nor in the Hadj.

Students hew stone,
They hew and present it to their master,
In every inch of the stone,
They call God to mind.

Open your hand (be generous to everyone),
Share your food,
Open the door of your house when somebody needs shelter,
Close your eyes (don’t be led astray by the artificial beauties of the world),
Control your waist (Don’t be a victim of your sexual impulses),
Control your tongue.
He who comes with patience and God,
Stands by our side.
He who works with morality and wisdom and passes us,
And stands our side.

 

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4 hours ago, iavswn said:

SheikhAlHabib'fan <-- He does

Mr. Sheikh Al Habib is an agent to demonise Islam. Non Shia mujtahid recognise him. He has no credibility in Shia Islam. 

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9 hours ago, SheikhAlHabib'fan said:

What, looool... who cares about Shah Ismail (who was a ruler, monarch not a scholar), he is irrelevant on matters concerning religion.

As per Imam Jaffar Al Sadiq (as):

It has been reported that our pure Infallibles (peace be upon them) condemned the one who adopts the philosophers and Sufi’s path. When Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) was asked about Sufis, he answered: “they are our enemies, whoever is inclined towards them then he's one of them and will be resurrected with them. There will be people who claim they love us but they are inclined towards them and they try to be like them, call themselves with their name, and say what they say, whoever is inclined towards them he's not from us and we are innocent from him and whoever rejects them and refutes them he's like someone who performed Jihad against the disbelievers with the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his pure family)” (Safinatul Bihar, by al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 57)"

I have suggested a post on the topic of what our Imams (as) said about Sufism and I'm tired of it... at least read my posts fully and search my suggestion I posted. Let me show it again:

Even if this hadith is authentic. It never says achieving spiritual purification and directing heart towards Allah is against islamic  .And central point of irfan and sofism is to acquire proximity of Allah through purification of body and  soul from sins and constant remembering of Allah.

Yes their might be some socalled pseudosofis and deviant arifs. They are condemned by All. 

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