Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

where are muhkam verses of imamate?

Rate this topic

54 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, skyweb1987 said:

brother but you are not taking the verses of quran as given in my last post link but neglecting or not giving a thought to those

I mention these verses below:

أَفَلَا يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ ۚ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللَّهِ لَوَجَدُوا فِيهِ اخْتِلَافًا كَثِيرًا
1. Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. (4:82)

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ
2.  [This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded. (38:29)

ذَٰلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ ۗ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ
3. That is [deserved by them] because Allah has sent down the Book in truth. And indeed, those who differ over the Book are in extreme dissension.(2:176)

IBRAHIM  AS AND HIS RELIGION  IN QURAN:

- وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ دِينًا مِّمَّنْ أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ وَهُوَ مُحْسِنٌ وَاتَّبَعَ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۗ وَاتَّخَذَ اللَّهُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ خَلِيلًا
4. And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend. (4:125)

قُلْ صَدَقَ اللَّهُ ۗ فَاتَّبِعُوا مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
5. Say, " Allah has told the truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth; and he was not of the polytheists." (3:95)

Thus Quran instruct us to follow the Religion of Ibrahim.

وَإِبْرَاهِيمَ إِذْ قَالَ لِقَوْمِهِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ ۖ ذَٰلِكُمْ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
6. And [We sent] Abraham, when he said to his people, "Worship Allah and fear Him. That is best for you, if you should know. (29:16)

وَاذْكُرْ فِي الْكِتَابِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ ۚ إِنَّهُ كَانَ صِدِّيقًا نَّبِيًّا
7. And mention in the Book [the story of] Abraham. Indeed, he was a man of truth and a prophet. (19:41)

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
8. And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." (2:124)

إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً قَانِتًا لِّلَّهِ حَنِيفًا وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
9. Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

The Religion of Ibrahim has concepts of worshiping Allah, Prophet hood and Leader (Imam) chosen by Allah. ie Imams

قُلْ إِنَّنِي هَدَانِي رَبِّي إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُّسْتَقِيمٍ دِينًا قِيَمًا مِّلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۚ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
10. Say, "Indeed, my Lord has guided me to a straight path - a correct religion - the way of Abraham, inclining toward truth. And he was not among those who associated others with Allah ." (6:161)

Our prophet has been guided to follow the religion of ibrahim having the concepts of Worship of Allah, Prophet hood and Leader chosen by Allah swt. ie Imams (not by the people).

How can you claim that doctrine of leaders / Imams chosen by the Allah swt does not exist in quran?

 

 

 

 

 

Br I understand what those ayahs are saying but on 16:120 notice the last part is ambigious and doesn't actually affirm positvely/directly directly the decendants of Abraham are to be the imams of leaders. The Quran is stating they could be but not specific or clear cut. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Br I understand what those ayahs are saying but on 16:120 notice the last part is ambigious and doesn't actually affirm positvely/directly directly the decendants of Abraham are to be the imams of leaders.

Is Quran mutashabeh (ambigious) to Prophet (pbuh)? Did he not knew the ta'veel of all of its verses?

skyweb1987 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Br I understand what those ayahs are saying but on 16:120 notice the last part is ambigious and doesn't actually affirm positvely/directly directly the decendants of Abraham are to be the imams of leaders. The Quran is stating they could be but not specific or clear cut. 

If you think that the verses of Quran are not ambigious for Prophet (pbuh), then you need to see what Prophet (pbuh) has said:

قالَ رَسُولُ اللهصلی الله عليه و آله و سلم: مَثَلُ اَهلِ بَيتي كَمَثَلِ سَفينَةِ نُوحٍ مَن رَكِبَها فَقَد نَجى وَ مَن تَخَلَّفَ عَنها فَقَد هَلَكَ. روى هذا الحديث ثمانية من الصحابة و ثمانية من التابعين و ستين من الحفاظ والعلماء… و اكثر من 90 نفر من مؤلفى اهل السنة راجع مشكاة المصابيح ص 523 عن احمد بن حنبل و فرائدالسِّمطَين ج2 ص242 والصواعق المحرقه ص234 و عيون الاخبار ج1 ص211 و غيرها من مصادرالفريقين وان شئت راجع نفحات الازهار ج4 ص127.

The parable of my Ahlul-Bayt is similar to that of Noah's Ark. Whosoever embarks it certainly will get rescued, but the one who opposes the boarding of it, surely gets drowned." (This tradition has been narrated by eight companions of the Prophet [p.b.u.h.] and eight persons from the disciples of the companions, and by sixty well-known scholars, and more than 90 authors from the brothers os Sunni school, mentioned in Mishkat-ul-Masabih, p.523, from Ahmad-ibn-Hanbal; Fara'id-us-Simtayn, vol.2, p. 242; As-Sawaiq-ul-Muharraqah, p.234; Uyun-ul-Akhbar, Vol.1, p.211; and others from the references of both schools, which if you wish to refer to, are, mentioned in Nafahat-ul-Azhar, vol.4, p.127.

قالَ رَسُولُ اللهصلی الله عليه و آله و سلم: يُوشَكُ اَن اُدعى فَاُجيبُ, اِنّي تارِك فِيكُم الثقَلَينِ كِتابَ الله وَ عِترَتي , كِتابُ الله حَبلٌ مَمـدُودٌ مِنَ السَّماءِ اِلَى الاَرضِ وَ عِترَتي أهلُ بَيتي وَ اِنّ اللّطيفَ الخَبيرَ اَخبَرَني أ نّهُما لَن يَفتَرِقا حَتّى يَـرِدا عَلَيَّ الحَـوضَ فَانظُـرُوا بِماذا تَخلُفُونّي وَ في حَديثٍ آخَر: لَن تَضِلّوا ما اِن تَمَسّكتُم بِهِما. نَقَلَ هذَا الحَديثِ اَكثَرُ مِن عِشرين صَحابيّاً وَ ما يُقارِبُ مِن 185 راوياً مِن رُواة الحَديثِ راجِع كِتاب صحيح مسلم ج 2 ص 238 و مُسند احمد بن حنبَل ج5 ص182-181 و صحيح الترمذى ج2 ص220 وغيرها مِن مصادر الفريقين و اِن شِئتَ راجع نفحات الازهار فى خلاصة عَبَقات الاَنوار ج1 ص210-199.

The Messenger of Allah said: "It is probable that I be called soon and I will respond. Then, I leave behind me among you two weighty (very worthy and important) things: The Book of Allah (i.e. the Qur'an), which is a stretched string from the heaven to the earth, and my progeny, my Ahlul-Bait; for verily Allah, The Merciful, the Aware, informed me that never, never, will these two get separated from each other until they meet me at the Houd of Kauthar (the Pond of Abundance). Therefore, be careful how you will treat due to those two in my absence." And, in another tradition it is added: "Never, never, shall you get astray if you attach yourselves to these TWO." This tradition is narrated by more than twenty persons from the companions of the Prophet [p.b.u.h.] and it is also narrated by over 185 narrators mentioned in Sahih Muslim, vol. 2, p. 238 & Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol.5, p. 181-182; Sahih-i-Tarmathi, vol.2, p.220, and others from the references of both schools which, if you like to see, are mentioned on pp. 199 to 210, vol. 1, in Nafahat-ul-Azhar fi Khulasat-i-Abaqat-ul-Anwar.

 قالَ رَسُولُ اللهِصلی الله عليه و آله و سلم: مَثَلُ أَهلِ بَيتي في اُمَّتي مَثَلُ سَفينَة نُوحٍ مَن رَكِبَها نَجا وَ مَن رَغِبَ عَنها هَلَكَ.

The Holy Prophet [p.b.u.h.] said: "The likeness of my Ahlul-Bayt (progeny) amongst my Ummah (followers) is similar to Noah's Ark. Those who embarked on it were rescued and those who rejected it perished...." Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 27, p. 113 

قالَ رَسُولُ اللهِصلی الله عليه و آله و سلم: زَيِّنُوا مَجالِسَكُم بِذِكرِ عَلِىِّ بنِ أَبي طالِبٍ. 

The Holy Prophet [p.b.u.h.] said: "Make your gatherings lively with the remembrance of Ali-ibn-Abi-Talib." (Talk about the excellencies of Ali [a.s.]). Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 38, p. 199

 

And in the end, read this hadith, explaining the term "ulul amr":

  فِي  إِكمالِ الدّينِ في حَديثٍ عَن جابِرِ الجُعفيِّ عَن جابِرِبنِ عَبـدِالله الأنصاريِّ قالَ: قُلـتُ: يا رَسُـولَ الله عَرَفنْاَ اللّهَ وَ رَسُولَهُ، فَمَن اُولُوا الأمـرِ الّذي ـنَ قَرَنَ اللّه طاعَتَهُـم بِطاعتك فَقالَصلی الله عليه و آله و سلمهُم خُلَفائي يا جابِرُ، وَ اَئِمَّة المُسلِميـنَ مِن بَعـدي أَوَّلُهُم عَلِيُّ بنُ اَبي طالِبٍ، ثُمَّ الحَسَنُ وَ الحُسَينُ، ثُمَّ عَلِيُّ بـنُ الحُسَينِ، ثُمَّ مُحَمَّدُ بـنُ عَلِىٍّ اَلمَعـرُوفُ  فِي  التَّـوراة بِالباقِـرِ، وسَتُدرِكُهُ يا جابِرُ، فَإذا لَقَيتَهُ فَاقرَأْهُ مِنِّى السَّـلامَ، ثُمَّ الصَّادِقُ جَعفَرُ بنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، ثُمَّ مُوسَى بنُ جَعفَرٍ، ثُمَّ عَلِيُّ بنُ مُوسى، ثُـمَّ مُحَمَّدُ بنُ عَلِىٍّ، ثُمَّ عَليُّ بنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، ثُمَّ الحَسَـنُ بنُ عَلِـىٍّ، ثُـمَّ سَمِيّي وَ كَنِيّي حُجَّة الله في أَرضِهِ، وَ بَقِيَّتُـهُ في عِبادِهِ اِبـنُ الحَسَنِ بن عَلِىٍّ، ذاكَ الّذي  يَفتَحُ اللّه تَعالى ذِكـرُهُ عَلى  يَدَيـهِ مَشَارِقَ الأرضِ وَ مَغارِبَه، ذاكَ الّذي  يَغيـبُ عَـن شيعَتِـهِ وَ اَولِيائـِهِ غَيبَةً لا يَثبُتُ فِيها عَلَى القَولِ بِاِمامَتِهِ لا مَنِ امتَحَنَ اللّه قَلبَهُ لِلاِيمانِ قالَ جابِرٌ، فَقُلتُ لَهُ: يا رَسُولَ الله فَهَـل يَقَـعُ لِشيعَتِـهِ اَلاِنتِفاعُ بِهِ في غَيبَتِهِ، فَقالَ إي وَالّذي بَعَثَني بِالنّبُوَّة اِنَّهُم يَستَضيؤُونَ بِنُورِهِ وَ يَنتَفِعُونَ بِوِلايَتِهِ في غَيبَتِهِ كَاِنتِفاعِ النّاسِ بِالشَّمسِ وَ اِن تَجَلَّلَها سَحابٌ .

In 'Ikmal-ud-Din' a tradition, through 'Jabir-il-Ju'fi', is narrated from 'Jabir-ibn-'Abdillah' thus: "I said: 'O Messenger of Allah we have known Allah and His Apostle; then who is 'Ulul-Amr', those that Allah has made their obedience the same as your obedience?' Then, the Prophet (p.h.u.h.) said: 'O' Jabir! They are, after me, my successors and the guides of Muslims; the first of them is Ali ibn Abi Talib; then (Imam) Hassan, and (Imam) Husayn; then Ali ibn Husayn; then Mohammad ibn Ali; known in the Turah as Baqir, whom you will see, O' Jabir! When you visit him, give my regards to him. After him, there is Sadiq, Ja'far ibn Muhammad; and after him Musa ibn Ja'far; then Ali ibn Musa; then Muhammad ibn Ali; then Ali ibn Muhammad, then Hassan ibn Ali; and after him (there comes) Al-Qaim, whose name and epithet is the same as mine. He is Allah's Authority on the Earth and His Remainder amongst His servants. He is the son of (Imam) Hassan-ibn-Ali (al-'Askari). This is the very personality by whose hands Allah will open the Easts and Wests of the worlds and this is the very personality who will be absent from his followers and those who love him, in which his mastership cannot be proved by a statement of anyone except for the one whose heart Allah tests for Faith." Jabir said: "I asked him: 'O' Messenger of Allah will his followers avail of him during his occultation?' He answered: 'Yes. By the One Who appointed me to prophethood, they will seek brightness from his light and will avail by devotion in his absence the same as the availing of people from the (glow of) sun when clouds cover it...' (Ikmal-ud-Din, vol. 1, p. 253, with nearly similar meaning in Yanabir-ul-Mawaddah, p. 117)

skyweb1987 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Br I understand what those ayahs are saying but on 16:120 notice the last part is ambigious and doesn't actually affirm positvely/directly directly the decendants of Abraham are to be the imams of leaders. The Quran is stating they could be but not specific or clear cut. 

The concept of the leaders chosen by Allah swt ie Imamas  has been clearly defined in the verses quoted in my last post. The presence of the Imams / leaders chosen by Allah swt has been confirmed already by the verse 2;124 in the descendants of Ibrahim.  

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا ۖ قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي ۖ قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
8. And [mention, O Muhammad], when Abraham was tried by his Lord with commands and he fulfilled them. [ Allah ] said, "Indeed, I will make you a leader for the people." [Abraham] said, "And of my descendants?" [ Allah ] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers." (2:124)

إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ كَانَ أُمَّةً قَانِتًا لِّلَّهِ حَنِيفًا وَلَمْ يَكُ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
9. Indeed, Abraham was a [comprehensive] leader, devoutly obedient to Allah , inclining toward truth, and he was not of those who associate others with Allah . (16:120)

The Religion of Ibrahim has concepts of worshiping Allah, Prophet hood and Leader (Imam) chosen by Allah. ie Imams

Do you deny that he concept of worshiping Allah swt and the prophet hood that has been well defined in the religion of ibrahm then how can you deny the concept of Imams / leaders chosen by Allah swt in the religion of ibrahim? All the above quoted verses provide the meaning for the presence of leaders chosen by Allah swt.

If still you persists on the absence of the leaders / Imams chosen by Allah swt in the progeny of the prophet Muhammad saww ie descendants of ibrahim As then i need to get two evidences to verify  your claims:

1- the verse of the quran that people can choose leaders/. imams/. caliphs/. prophets instead of Allah swt

2- the names as examples  from qurab for the people chosen caliphs. leaders/. imams for their guidance instead of Allah swt.

waslam 

i

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.