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Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

where are muhkam verses of imamate?

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54 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Jazakallah but I have one problem. None of those ayahs in isolation can only prove imamate, we need to use them all in together to prove the concept of imamate. 

The rule has been taught by Imam (a.s), some verses of Quran provides explanation of some verses. 

If you want to know whether there is a designation like Imamate exists in scripture, you can know it with just a single verse.
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
2:124)

Who are the Imams, you carefully need to look into the offspring of Prophet Ibrahim & take the help of different verses of Quran as well as the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his pure progeny).

 

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30 minutes ago, Salsabeel said:

The rule has been taught by Imam (a.s), some verses of Quran provides explanation of some verses. 

If you want to know whether there is a designation like Imamate exists in scripture, you can know it with just a single verse.
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
2:124)

Who are the Imams, you carefully need to look into the offspring of Prophet Ibrahim & take the help of different verses of Quran as well as the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his pure progeny).

 

Yes but these are apologetic typed arguments, i.e. surely we should merely be able to find the concept strongly embedded to be in the quran? Yes I know about the surah baqarah verse.

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4 minutes ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Yes but these are apologetic typed arguments, i.e. surely we should merely be able to find the concept strongly embedded to be in the quran? Yes I know about the surah baqarah verse.

:), does it was not sufficient to know that some of His servants are Imam?

 Ok, lets see a verse now:

وَالَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا هَبْ لَنَا مِنْ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَذُرِّيَّاتِنَا قُرَّةَ أَعْيُنٍ وَاجْعَلْنَا لِلْمُتَّقِينَ إِمَامًا
"And they who say: O our Lord! grant us in our wives and our offspring the joy of our eyes, and make us guides to those who guard (against evil)" 25:74

Who are these people? Does Allah accepted their dua? You need to look at it.

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1 hour ago, Salsabeel said:

:), does it was not sufficient to know that some of His servants are Imam?

 Ok, lets see a verse now:

وَالَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا هَبْ لَنَا مِنْ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَذُرِّيَّاتِنَا قُرَّةَ أَعْيُنٍ وَاجْعَلْنَا لِلْمُتَّقِينَ إِمَامًا
"And they who say: O our Lord! grant us in our wives and our offspring the joy of our eyes, and make us guides to those who guard (against evil)" 25:74

Who are these people? Does Allah accepted their dua? You need to look at it.

What does that have to do with imamate?

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8 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

No one has answered me. 

The Quran itself you can never take one ayat only and leave the rest

It is like a PUZZLE. You need to bring all the pieces together in order to derive something from it. 

Hence the Prophet said Quran AND AHLULBAYT and not QURAN alone. 

When you say by Muhkam, give me an example

Do you mean Ali is the Wali of Allah?

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هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
[Yusufali 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:7]

As explained in the commentary of verse 2 of al Baqarah the Quran was revealed to the Holy Prophet. He knew the true meaning of every verse, or after him, it was Ali who claimed that he knew when, why and for whom every verse of the Quran was revealed.

Most of the verses of the Quran are clear and decisive. There is no ambiguity in them. They are known as the muhkamat. They relate to the fundamentals of the faith, such as the oneness of Allah, the directions pertaining to the practice of the faith and the laws governing the day to day life of the faithful. They can neither be changed nor modified. Any man of average intelligence can understand and follow them.

The mutashabihat are the verses which have been composed in subtle and profound diction and style. They carry implications other than the literal meanings, and therefore, are capable of giving different significations, like "The hand of Allah is on their hands" in verse 10 of al Fat-h. Verse 1 of al Hud says that the Quran is a book of clear and decisive verses. Verse 23 of al Zumar says that Allah has sent down the very best discourse as a book conformable in its repetition and consimilarity. Only the men of understanding who possess a higher level of intelligence contemplate and find out the meaningful implications of such verses. Average and ordinary minds cannot figure out or have knowledge of the real purport of such verses, and if they try this on their own, they are bewildered and go astray. As mentioned in the commentary of verse 1 of al Baqarah, the huruf muqatta-at are also meaningful but their subtle and profound meanings are known to Allah and His chosen representatives (Muhammad and ali Muhammad) only. Therefore, those who know the true purport of these symbolic letters occupy the highest position in the domain of knowledge and wisdom. In the well-known tradition of thaqalayn the Holy Prophet has clearly made known the fact that whoso remains attached with the Quran and his Ahl ul Bayt, after his departure from this world, will never go astray, because these two weighty authorities will never be separated from each other, and joined together, they shall meet the Holy Prophet at the spring of Kawthar; and "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate", said the Holy Prophet in order to guide the faithfuls so that, to have knowledge of the Quran, they must refer to Ali and his Ahl ul Bayt, who alone know the true meanings of the mutashabihat.

Zaygh means disease, perversity, evil, and wicked intention, the inclination to go against the truth and to blunder, revolt and go astray. Fitna means to create mischief, or to create difference of opinion and to mislead.

"None knows its interpretation except Allah and those (who are) firmly rooted in knowledge", renders null and void all attempts made by scholars to discover the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are those whom Allah Himself gives the knowledge, as verse 49 of al Ankabut says: But it is clear revelations in the hearts of those who have been given knowledge. Therefore, the observation of the Ahmadi commentator that reading various passages in the light of each discover the true significance of ambiguous passages, is based upon his inclination to go out of the right course. The Christians also try in vain to assign divinity to Isa by calculating the numerical value of the haruf muqatta-at, and misinterpret the complex verses to suit their dubious theories.

How the complex verses can be interpreted is not mentioned in this verse, nor anywhere in the Quran, but it is clearly disclosed that besides Allah only those, endowed with divine knowledge, know the true meanings of the mutashabihat. The firmly rooted in knowledge are the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, the thoroughly purified ones (Ahzab: 33), who possess the desired purity of heart and soul, essential for receiving and holding the truth in order to use it (Waqi-ah: 77 to 79) to do good to themselves and to others. It is obvious that there is no conceivable necessity of revealing complex verses or letter symbols if even the Holy Prophet, to whom the Quran was revealed, did not know their meanings. It is only a hypothetical inquiry, otherwise there is the clear mention of rasikhuna fil ilm (the firmly rooted in knowledge) in this verse, the first among whom is the Holy Prophet, and after him, as said earlier, his Ahlul Bayt are the custodians of his knowledge and wisdom, who alone are entitled to interpret every word of the Quran.

In reply to Anas bin Malik's query about rasikhuna fil ilm the Holy Prophet said:

"They are those whose hands do not do aught but that which is just, righteous and good; whose tongues do not utter aught but that which is true; whose hearts and minds are enlightened and rational; whose stomachs are free from that which is forbidden."

The ayah al tat-hir (Ahzab: 33) confirms that only the thoroughly purified Muhammad and ali Muhammad are the rasikhuna fil ilm. Verse 13 of Luqman says that polytheism (shirk) is the most grievous inequity, the worst type of impurity. It is a historical fact that all the companions of the Holy Prophet, before embracing Islam, for a long time in their lives, were idolworshippers. The Holy Prophet, Bibi Fatimah and Ali ibna abi Talib and their children were the only ones who were free from the impurity of polytheism right from the day they were born. All Muslims, in every age, add karamallahu wajhu (Allah graced and honoured his face above others) after the name of Ali, because he never worshipped any ghayrallah (other than Allah). The Holy Prophet pointed out the essential purity of body and soul in Ali, equal to his own purity, when he said:

"O Ali! Your flesh is my flesh, your blood is my blood. You and I are from one and the same divine light"

Verses 18 of Ali Imran, 162 of al Nisa, 49 of Ankabut, and 11 of al Mujadalah refer to those who have been divinely endowed with knowledge.

As ordinary human beings are unable to know the meanings of the mutashabihat, the divine mercy guides the sincere seekers of the truth to turn to the ahladh dhikr, the Holy Prophet and his Ahlul Bayt (see commentary of verse 43 of al Nahl and verse 7 of al Anbiya):

"So ask the people of dhikr (the reminder or the Quran) if you do not know."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Nothing in the earth or in the heavens is hidden from Allah, the self-subsisting, because He is the author of the book of creation (the development of the embryo has been mentioned in the previous verse as an example). In this verse He says that the author of the book of creation is also the author of the book of legislation (the Quran).

The book of creation (the universe) contains miscellaneous signs. Some are clear. Some are intricate and perplexing. For example (in the book of creation) the function and the significance of every part of the human structure has been studied and defined except the "appendix". Now a rational student of the book of creation will say:

"As no part is without some significance, this also must have some meaning, though I have not yet understood it."

On the contrary a mischief-maker will mix up that which is known with that which is not known and deny both by saying:

"As no reason or significance is found in this part, therefore, there is no reason or significance in the whole."

Likewise in the book of legislation, some signs (verses) are clear and decisive (muhkam), and some have several possible meanings (mutashabih), therefore, the rational mind will try to understand the mutashabih (unclear) verses in the light of the muhkam (clear and decisive) verses, by proceeding from the known to the unknown or from the concrete to the abstract; but the perverse mind will judge that which is certainly precise and definite in the light of the complex so as to mislead people by dubious misinterpretations.

Verse 1 of al Hud says that all the verses of the book are well arranged and firmly established. The arrangement of the words in the verses and the verses in the surahs is so accurate and proper that they all form a consistent unity, though they were separately revealed. It implies that the Quran was already arranged and established before its revelation, which is confirmed by verse 105 of Bani Israil. In verse 23 of al Zumar, the book is presented as consistent, consimilar and conformable in its parts (mutashabihan). But in this verse mutashabihat refers to the meanings, the implications, the connotations and the denotations of the complex passages.

Muhtam (clear) and mutashabih (complex) are relative terms. What is unclear to some may be apparent and definite to others. There may be quite a few features and viewpoints inherent in certain ideas, or commands, or narrations. Studying them from a particular angle will make their meaning and purpose crystal clear but their clarity may turn into obscurity when they are viewed from another standpoint. At all events, the complex should be examined and interpreted in the light of that which is clear and decisive, or as explained by the Holy Prophet, or by those whose authority has been established by the Holy Prophet and the Quran (see pages 1 to 7, commentary of verses 6 and 7 of al Fatihah, and verses 2, 30 to 37 and 124 of al Baqarah). In the light of verses 16 to 19 of al Qiyamah, the divine agency collects, recites and interprets the Quran. As the book is a guidance for mankind, there should be no unintelligible or incomprehensible passage in it. There is none. As asserted by the Ahlul Bayt, rasikhuna fil ilm is conjuncted with Allah and yaquluna is an adverbial clause qualifying the state of knowledge, referring to rasikhun. In the Nahj al Balagha, Ali ibna abi Talib says that the rasikhuna fil ilm believe in the unknown in the light of the known. As explained in the commentary of verse 3 of al Baqarah the knowledge of the ghayb (unknown) is with the infinite, therefore, the awareness of the finite created beings, even if they are endowed with the divine insight, cannot be at par with the absolute wisdom of the ghayb ul mutlaq, the hayyul qayyum creator. All that which becomes (in obedience) effective, as soon as He wills, is knowable to man. A finite being can know as much as the infinite all-wise likes him to know and grow in knowledge, which implies that basically his knowledge was insufficient but he rises towards the level of perfection, with the help of divine endowment, on his own merits, to become aware of the meanings of all that which has been revealed in the book, because, if it is not so, such revelations (mutashabihat) would be unprofitable and frustrating. So what Imam Ali ibna abi Talib and Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir have said in this connection is true.

http://quran.al-islam.org/

Also Read 

http://www.almizan.org/

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16 hours ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

No one has answered me. 

Tradition of the Two Weighty Things (thaqalayn)

The Messenger of Allah declared:

 "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both,  you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)." 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

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On 5/14/2017 at 5:41 PM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

where are muhkam verses of imamate? I see all these ayats on imamate requiring an exegesis.

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {30}

[Shakir 2:30] And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.
[Pickthal 2:30] And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
[Yusufali 2:30] Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

*****

What is your understanding of this verse. What is this concept of Vicegerent on Earth?

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10 hours ago, S.M.H.A. said:
هُوَ الَّذِي أَنْزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ ۖ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاءَ الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ ۗ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلَّا اللَّهُ ۗ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِنْ عِنْدِ رَبِّنَا ۗ وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّا أُولُو الْأَلْبَابِ {7}

[Shakir 3:7] He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
[Pickthal 3:7] He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
[Yusufali 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

Below is the correct breakdown of sentences for above verse.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book:

In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical.

But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings,

but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. (i.e only Allah and no one else, then starts a new statement)

And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. (i.e the ones who are firm in knowledge, instead of nitpicking and hair splitting, they believe in the Word of Allah as a whole and turn their attention to more useful things, which are muhkam and do not create fitnas or wrong beliefs out of mutashabihat).

 

 

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On 5/15/2017 at 4:58 PM, Salsabeel said:

The rule has been taught by Imam (a.s), some verses of Quran provides explanation of some verses. 

If you want to know whether there is a designation like Imamate exists in scripture, you can know it with just a single verse.
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
2:124)

Who are the Imams, you carefully need to look into the offspring of Prophet Ibrahim & take the help of different verses of Quran as well as the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his pure progeny).

 

And what about this brother. Here same إِمَامًا is being used. i.e imam ul mutaqeen. Allah swt has taught all believers to supplicate like this and guaranteed that such people will be successful in hereafter.

Furqan 74-75.

وَالَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا هَبْ لَنَا مِنْ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَذُرِّيَّاتِنَا قُرَّةَ أَعْيُنٍ وَاجْعَلْنَا لِلْمُتَّقِينَ إِمَامًا

And those who pray "Our Lord! grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous."

أُولَٰئِكَ يُجْزَوْنَ الْغُرْفَةَ بِمَا صَبَرُوا وَيُلَقَّوْنَ فِيهَا تَحِيَّةً وَسَلَامًا

Those are the ones who will be rewarded with the highest place in heaven because of their patient constancy; therein shall they be met with salutations and peace

 

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24 minutes ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

And what about this brother. Here same إِمَامًا is being used. i.e imam ul mutaqeen. Allah swt has taught all believers to supplicate like this and guaranteed that such people will be successful in hereafter.

Furqan 74-75.

وَالَّذِينَ يَقُولُونَ رَبَّنَا هَبْ لَنَا مِنْ أَزْوَاجِنَا وَذُرِّيَّاتِنَا قُرَّةَ أَعْيُنٍ وَاجْعَلْنَا لِلْمُتَّقِينَ إِمَامًا

And those who pray "Our Lord! grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous."

أُولَٰئِكَ يُجْزَوْنَ الْغُرْفَةَ بِمَا صَبَرُوا وَيُلَقَّوْنَ فِيهَا تَحِيَّةً وَسَلَامًا

Those are the ones who will be rewarded with the highest place in heaven because of their patient constancy; therein shall they be met with salutations and peace

 

You have probably missed the first one, intentionally. Here it is:

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:58 PM, Salsabeel said:

The rule has been taught by Imam (a.s), some verses of Quran provides explanation of some verses. 

If you want to know whether there is a designation like Imamate exists in scripture, you can know it with just a single verse.
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
2:124)

Who are the Imams, you carefully need to look into the offspring of Prophet Ibrahim & take the help of different verses of Quran as well as the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his pure progeny).

 

The verse 74 of chapter 25 was quoted in support of the verse 2:124.

Imam is not that which people can elect as caliph. Imamate is from Allah, the pious people were praying to Allah to make them the Imam of muttaqeen, this indicates the concept of Imamate is very clearly mentioned in Quran and further it is explained in hadith.

Edited by Salsabeel

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Furthermore, if you keep searching the Quran, where Allah has placed the imamate in the offspring of prophet Ibrahim a.s, you will come to the following verses:

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 72:

وَوَهَبْنَا لَهُ إِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ نَافِلَةً وَكُلًّا جَعَلْنَا صَالِحِينَ

And We gave him Ishaq and Yaqoub, a son's son, and We made (them) all good.

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 73:

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ

And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;

(English - Shakir)

Then you further move ahead and come to 33:33. According to the Qur'an, the following persons were sinless and infallible at the time of the death of the Holy Prophet 'Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn. The verse of purity (tathir) reads as follows:

... Allah only desires to keep away abomination from you, O People of the House! And to purify you a (thorough) purifying. (33 :33)

Then you see ayah e wilayat, the mutawatir hadith of ghadeer, mutawatir hadith where Prophet introducing Hasnain a.s as Imams and Syed of the youth of jannah.

It is so simple.

 

Edited by Salsabeel

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2 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Below is the correct breakdown of sentences for above verse.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book:

In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical.

But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings,

but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. (i.e only Allah and no one else, then starts a new statement)

And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. (i.e the ones who are firm in knowledge, instead of nitpicking and hair splitting, they believe in the Word of Allah as a whole and turn their attention to more useful things, which are muhkam and do not create fitnas or wrong beliefs out of mutashabihat).

 

 

Tradition of the Two Weighty Things (thaqalayn)

The Messenger of Allah declared:

 "It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere to them both,  you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my Progeny, that is my Ahlul Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)." 

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2 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

To be very honest, no where. Following thread prove this,

 

وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ إِنِّي جَاعِلٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةً ۖ قَالُوا أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَنْ يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ الدِّمَاءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّي أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ {30}

[Shakir 2:30] And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.
[Pickthal 2:30] And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.
[Yusufali 2:30] Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

*****

What is your understanding of this verse. What is this concept of Vicegerent on Earth?

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On 5/16/2017 at 2:41 PM, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

No one has answered me. 

Here 

https://www.medinaminds.com/leadership-in-the-quran/

 

Additionally :

4|59

O you who believe! Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you dispute over anything, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you believe in God and the Last Day. That is best, and a most excellent determination.

We know authority is to God, and the messenger, but we can see clearly there is another group who have authority. 

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@Salsabeel 

Quote

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 73:

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ

And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;

Isn't that merely refer to the messengers as leaders sent by AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì? 

Quote

[Yusufali 2:30] Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

This ayah referring to Adam(AS) and not the concept of imamate, if you go to the next verse you will see:

Quote

And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."

وَعَلَّمَ آدَمَ الْأَسْمَاءَ كُلَّهَا ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى الْمَلَائِكَةِ فَقَالَ أَنبِئُونِي بِأَسْمَاءِ هَٰؤُلَاءِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ - 2:31

 

Edited by Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī

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1 hour ago, Ībn Mūneer Āl-Feylī said:

Isn't that merely refer to the messengers as leaders sent by AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì? 

2:124 was also refer to a messenger of Allah named Ibrahim a.s, and as per that verse Imamate will be given to the just ones in his progeny. 

Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 124:
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

And when his Lord tried Ibrahim with certain words, he fulfilled them. He said: Surely I will make you an Imam of men. Ibrahim said: And of my offspring? My covenant does not include the unjust, said He.
(English - Shakir)

I assume that your next question might be that, Prophet Ismail was not mentioned here in 21:124, so imamate is not given to him? 

I would refer you verses of chapter 37:100-112, and you can find many verses about him in Quran as he was also a Prophet.

Remember, it is not necessary for an Imam to be a Messenger or Prophet too. The only requirement for an Imam is "just". 

قَالَ لَا يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

Edited by Salsabeel

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10 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

You have probably missed the first one, intentionally. Here it is:

On 5/15/2017 at 4:58 PM, Salsabeel said:

The rule has been taught by Imam (a.s), some verses of Quran provides explanation of some verses. 

If you want to know whether there is a designation like Imamate exists in scripture, you can know it with just a single verse.
وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ
2:124)

Who are the Imams, you carefully need to look into the offspring of Prophet Ibrahim & take the help of different verses of Quran as well as the hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him & his pure progeny).

 

The verse 74 of chapter 25 was quoted in support of the verse 2:124.

Imam is not that which people can elect as caliph. Imamate is from Allah, the pious people were praying to Allah to make them the Imam of muttaqeen, this indicates the concept of Imamate is very clearly mentioned in Quran and further it is explained in hadith.

Verse 2:124 is not isolated one. It is part of context from 2:122 to on wards. And here Allah is addressing Bani Israil. And reminding them of such events related to the life of Ibrahim a.s. Why this imamate concept to bani israil? Whats the purpose? And this happened much before ghadir. Where Imam Ali a.s was made an Imam as per shia reports.

No, concept of Imamate is not clearly mentioned in Quran. There is a big difference between word Imam and concept of Imam. Moreover word Imam is being used in different meanings in Quran, and both for humans and non humans. 

In 25:74 Allah has mentioned one attribute of pious servants. And its not limited to few people, be it 5, 7 or 12.  Its open for all. Any body can supplicate as taught by Allah and can become Imam of mutaqeen esp from his off-springs. Just like Prophet Ibrahim a.s was i.e of his sons and all other humans esp of bani israil.

 

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10 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Furthermore, if you keep searching the Quran, where Allah has placed the imamate in the offspring of prophet Ibrahim a.s, you will come to the following verses:

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 72:

وَوَهَبْنَا لَهُ إِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ نَافِلَةً وَكُلًّا جَعَلْنَا صَالِحِينَ

And We gave him Ishaq and Yaqoub, a son's son, and We made (them) all good.

Surah Al-Anbiya, Verse 73:

وَجَعَلْنَاهُمْ أَئِمَّةً يَهْدُونَ بِأَمْرِنَا وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْهِمْ فِعْلَ الْخَيْرَاتِ وَإِقَامَ الصَّلَاةِ وَإِيتَاءَ الزَّكَاةِ وَكَانُوا لَنَا عَابِدِينَ

And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve;

(English - Shakir)

In the off-springs of Prophet Ibrahim a.s. who were also prophets, including Ibrahim a.s himself. Any non prophet from off-spring of Ibrahim a.s who also become Imam? Any verse on this from Quran?

From Anbiya 72 we can deduce the definition of Imam as the one who guides by the commands of Allah. After the end of prophet hood, commands of Allah mean the Quran. So anybody who is doing this today is the Imam. And today this job is carried by scholars, not by the current 12th shia Imam (as he is not guiding at all in any means). They are the scholars who are doing this job so they are the true Imams not the 12th one.

11 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Then you further move ahead and come to 33:33. According to the Qur'an, the following persons were sinless and infallible at the time of the death of the Holy Prophet 'Ali, Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn. The verse of purity (tathir) reads as follows:

... Allah only desires to keep away abomination from you, O People of the House! And to purify you a (thorough) purifying. (33 :33)

Then you see ayah e wilayat, the mutawatir hadith of ghadeer, mutawatir hadith where Prophet introducing Hasnain a.s as Imams and Syed of the youth of jannah.

It is so simple.

Its not simple as you are making it.

what about these intentions and desires of Allah. Are these also eternal and does this also proves infallibility for all those addressed.

Quote

Anfal 11

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ

Remember (before the battle of Badr) when He caused drowsiness to overcome you as an assurance from Himself, and sent down water from the sky to cleanse you and to remove from you the uncleanliness caused by Shaitan, to strengthen your hearts and to steady your feet therewith.

Maida 6

مَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَٰكِنْ يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

Allah does not wish to burden you; He only wishes to purify you and to perfect His favor upon you, so that you may be thankful.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

No, concept of Imamate is not clearly mentioned in Quran.

It is better to say, concept of Imamate in Quran is not clear to you. As your whole posts shows that.

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

"I will make you Imam of men"
"My COVENANT does not include the unjust"


These two sentences are sufficient to prove that there exists a "Covenant" known as "Imamate" which Allah gave to Ibrahim (a.s). It is as bright as day, no need of semantics here as it is a mohkam & clear verse in its meanings. A prophet of Allah is receiving something known as Imamate and Allah is promising here that the covenant will not go to the unjust ones in the offspring of Ibrahim (a.s)

 

2 hours ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

In 25:74 Allah has mentioned one attribute of pious servants. And its not limited to few people, be it 5, 7 or 12.  Its open for all. Any body can supplicate as taught by Allah and can become Imam of mutaqeen esp from his off-springs. Just like Prophet Ibrahim a.s was i.e of his sons and all other humans esp of bani israil.

:) Seems like you have some personal issues with imamate. Otherwise you will not try to dismiss your own claim quoted above i.e., "Imamate is not clearly mentioned in Quran"  So tell me, if it is not clearly mentioned in Quran, why you are saying that anyone can supplicate & can become Imam of muttaqeen?

And why you have included "anyone" here while Allah has said that "My Covenant does not include the unjust".

How many Imams of Muttaqeen are there from the Companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)? Who announced that they are the Imams? Is there anyone in the life time of Prophet whose names were given to them by Allah? Anyone for whom Angel Jibrael came to inform Prophet to give them these names?

Yes there are different meanings of the word Imam, but the meaning 2:124 telling us is not that you start calling Abu Hanifa is appointed Imam by Allah. Or you start claiming that Abu Bakar or Umer were Imams of Muttaqeen.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ya Allah Madad said:

Anfal 11

إِذْ يُغَشِّيكُمُ النُّعَاسَ أَمَنَةً مِنْهُ وَيُنَزِّلُ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنَ السَّمَاءِ مَاءً لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ وَلِيَرْبِطَ عَلَىٰ قُلُوبِكُمْ وَيُثَبِّتَ بِهِ الْأَقْدَامَ

Remember (before the battle of Badr) when He caused drowsiness to overcome you as an assurance from Himself, and sent down water from the sky to cleanse you and to remove from you the uncleanliness caused by Shaitan, to strengthen your hearts and to steady your feet therewith.

Maida 6

مَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ مِنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَٰكِنْ يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

Allah does not wish to burden you; He only wishes to purify you and to perfect His favor upon you, so that you may be thankful.

This is the proof that you have some personal issues with Imams. Otherwise you would not dare to compare these verses with 33:33

Verse 11 of Anfal itself says that water was sent down to purify those who wronged themselves and misguided by the Shaitan. لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ بِهِ وَيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمْ رِجْزَ الشَّيْطَانِ
Verse 6 of Maida describes the command of ablution & tayammum:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ إِذَا قُمْتُمْ إِلَى الصَّلاةِ فاغْسِلُواْ وُجُوهَكُمْ وَأَيْدِيَكُمْ إِلَى الْمَرَافِقِ وَامْسَحُواْ بِرُؤُوسِكُمْ وَأَرْجُلَكُمْ إِلَى الْكَعْبَينِ وَإِن كُنتُمْ جُنُبًا فَاطَّهَّرُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاء أَحَدٌ مَّنكُم مِّنَ الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُم مِّنْهُ مَا يُرِيدُ اللّهُ لِيَجْعَلَ عَلَيْكُم مِّنْ حَرَجٍ وَلَـكِن يُرِيدُ لِيُطَهَّرَكُمْ وَلِيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَشْكُرُونَ

I can see what is in your heart. I can see indeed.

@Qa'im, @Ozzy, @shiaman14, @Lover of Ahlulbait (ams), @Sindbad05, @iraqi_shia, @Mansur Bakhtiari, @skyweb1987, @Faruk

Edited by Salsabeel

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