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Fatimahlover

Non sayed women married to the imams and sayeds?

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Assalamualikum,

I read here alot about that its permissible for a sayed boy to marry a non sayed girl. Yet some people dont still allow their sons to marry non sayed girls. All i want is a proof from the family tree of the prophet that the imams actually married non sayed women " the only example that i know is about the persian wife of Imam Hussien" So are there more examples than that? 

And how to convince someone that actually its allowed for a sayed to marry half a sayed " my mom is only sayed"? I need very convincing answers to that topic.

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It's those who claim that Sayyids are only allowed to marry Sayyids who need to bring their proof, and the idea that Sayyid men can only marry Sayyid women is even more absurd than the usual claim involving Sayyid women. The Imams marrying Sayyid women seems to have been the exception rather than the rule. Most of the mothers of the Imams were not Sayyid.

As for other examples, I don't think any of the mothers of any of the Imams after al-Baqir Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã were Sayyid. The most famous examples would be the mother of Imam al-Kadhim and the mother of Imam al-Mahdi, who were both slaves.

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1 hour ago, Fatimahlover said:

Assalamualikum,

I read here alot about that its permissible for a sayed boy to marry a non sayed girl. Yet some people dont still allow their sons to marry non sayed girls. All i want is a proof from the family tree of the prophet that the imams actually married non sayed women " the only example that i know is about the persian wife of Imam Hussien" So are there more examples than that? 

And how to convince someone that actually its allowed for a sayed to marry half a sayed " my mom is only sayed"? I need very convincing answers to that topic.

It is very simple and is not a Fiqhi issue.

Ayatullah Sistani allows Syed girls to marry non-Syed boys. If you accept that then all your subsequent questions are null and void.

The question arises if you are Syed and you do not allow you daughters to marry non-Syeds is it ethical to allow your sons to do so.

By ethical I mean population is split 50:50 men and women. If all Syed boys married non-Syed girls who is going to marry the Syed girls.

This isn't about religion it's about doing the right thing.

As already pointed out many of the Imams mothers and wives were non-Syed

Edited by A true Sunni

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1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

It is very simple and is not a Fiqhi issue.

Ayatullah Sistani allows Syed girls to marry non-Syed boys. If you accept that then all your subsequent questions are null and void.

The question arises if you are Syed and you do not allow you daughters to marry non-Syeds is it ethical to allow your sons to do so.

By ethical I mean population is split 50:50 men and women. If all Syed boys married non-Syed girls who is going to marry the Syed girls.

This isn't about religion it's about doing the right thing.

As already pointed out many of the Imams mothers and wives were non-Syed

And i dont think its ethical too, if a guy loves a non sayed good pious girl that his family would reject his choice because she is non sayed. I guess thats like looking down on a person and committing zulm in the society. Making the lives of the guy and the girl miserable and thats against the prophet's teachings. 

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1 hour ago, Fatimahlover said:

And i dont think its ethical too, if a guy loves a non sayed good pious girl that his family would reject his choice because she is non sayed. I guess thats like looking down on a person and committing zulm in the society. Making the lives of the guy and the girl miserable and thats against the prophet's teachings. 

Since I have already told you that Agha Sistani allows it, its a moot point.

If a Syed boy wants to marry a non-Syed girl then he should support his sisters marrying Non-Sayed boys in turn.  

Simple 

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3 hours ago, Fatimahlover said:

And i dont think its ethical too, if a guy loves a non sayed good pious girl that his family would reject his choice because she is non sayed. I guess thats like looking down on a person and committing zulm in the society. Making the lives of the guy and the girl miserable and thats against the prophet's teachings. 

Ayotullah Seestani says that if a syed boy marries a non-syed girl and they have children, they will be syeds because Nasb runs through father. However, if a syeda marries a non-syed, her child will not be syed. For syed families, it is impossible to assume that their girls children should lose connection from Prophet's family and her children would not be connected to Prophet.  For a boy, the fear is that if he got involved with a non-syeda and marry her, in future her wife could influence her daughter or son to marry among non-syeds. And since the boy had the love marriage, he could not force his children on any basis to sacrifice something for blood relation to Prophet. 

People claim that Imams married non-syeds. I believe that they were chosen ones. They didn't force imams or had conflicts with them. And those who had conflucts with them, created problems for imams and destroyed themselves. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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1 hour ago, A true Sunni said:

Since I have already told you that Agha Sistani allows it, its a moot point.

If a Syed boy wants to marry a non-Syed girl then he should support his sisters marrying Non-Sayed boys in turn.  

Simple 

What Sayyid Sistani says is not binding on everyone, so it is absurd to try to end an argument by making reference to his rulings.

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8 minutes ago, Haydar Husayn said:

What Sayyid Sistani says is not binding on everyone, so it is absurd to try to end an argument by making reference to his rulings.

Allowing it, doesn't mean you have to do it. Choosing a partner a personal choice so qute clearly Agha Sistani cannot rule on that

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52 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Ayotullah Seestani says that if a syed boy marries a non-syed girl and they have children, they will be syeds because Nasb runs through father. However, if a syeda marries a non-syed, her child will not be syed. For syed families, it is impossible to assume that their girls children should lose connection from Prophet's family and her children would not be connected to Prophet.  For a boy, the fear is that if he got involved with a non-syeda and marry her, in future her wife could influence her daughter or son to marry among non-syeds. And since the boy had the love marriage, he could not force his children on any basis to sacrifice something for blood relation to Prophet. 

People claim that Imams married non-syeds. I believe that they were chosen ones. They didn't force imams or had conflicts with them. And those who had conflucts with them, created problems for imams and destroyed themselves. 

"They were chosen" yes the mothers of the imams were indeed chosen as 'non sayeds' to break the rule of a sayed marrying a sayed thats it. Like during the prophet's days, Hashimitis were married to slaves and people from high ranks and levels married people from lower levels to show that islam isnt a religion of levels and racism. They were chosen by God because they were pious thats it. 

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1 hour ago, Fatimahlover said:

"They were chosen" yes the mothers of the imams were indeed chosen as 'non sayeds' to break the rule of a sayed marrying a sayed thats it. Like during the prophet's days, Hashimitis were married to slaves and people from high ranks and levels married people from lower levels to show that islam isnt a religion of levels and racism. They were chosen by God because they were pious thats it. 

When there is Surah like Surah-i-Kausar, "Why do you say like that"....If God wishes to let the descendants of Prophet PBUHHP become innumerable, no one can prevent it. They were chosen by God for Imams and that is why there did not have any say for determining the pairs of children of Imams, look at Imam Musa al-Kadhim a.s that He a.s had 18 daughters but they were not married. Why that happened, because there was no equal for them. 

Yes, if there be an equal for a syed among a non-syed family and instead of getting conflicts with syeds for what they are and what she is not, marrying is alright, if she knows at least to respect their descent and linkage to Prophet. But here happens that every non-Syed stands to show that syeds are even lower than them, why are you jealous of what God has given them and you do not have ? This is the only difference between, the "Chosen ladies who were mothers of Imams", because they knew respect of house of Ahlebait a.s. 

I only have one thing to non-syeds brother and sister, listen. If there is a syed and he becomes a bad name to Prophet PBUHHP, Prophet PBUHHP would cut off his relation with him and that is what Imam Ali a.s says: "There will be 20 Dajals (deceivers) from my family and I do not have any relation with them". Like Agha Khan family who descends from Prophet PBUHHP, and now they do not show that anything among them resembles with Prophet and they look more Western than Muslims. 

Same is the case with non-Syeds, Instead of making yourself critics of Syeds, you should focus on your own well-being, And like Salman al Farsi, who loved so much that Prophet PBUHHP called him that "Salman is from us Ahlebait a.s", you could also become part of Prophet's huge family just on account of your good behavior and Eman and like "Those pious ladies who were wives and mothers of our Imams, they proved themselves syeds and part of family of Prophet just by their obedience to family of Prophet PBUHHP". I am a syed myself, if I get married to a non-syed girl whom I like, I am not sure whether she will keep up with me or just become strongest critic, So, it is better, I do not think about that, because every non-syed girl's opinion would be no different from you and all those who are unaware of our commitment to Syeda Zahra a.s.  I would rather be slave of Syeda Zahra a.s than become slave of a non-syed girl who says me and my children that cut your relations with syeds and bury this custom. 

Edited by Sindbad05

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58 minutes ago, Hugo Boss said:

Our Imams married Africans.

And saying Sayed can only marry Sayed is like saying white people can only marry white people. Racism at it's best.

Ok, I am a syed, If I marry a non-syed white women what is the chance that my children will marry as per my wish within syeds and be more close to Prophet both physically and spiritually ? 

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8 hours ago, Fatimahlover said:

Assalamualikum,

I read here alot about that its permissible for a sayed boy to marry a non sayed girl. Yet some people dont still allow their sons to marry non sayed girls. All i want is a proof from the family tree of the prophet that the imams actually married non sayed women " the only example that i know is about the persian wife of Imam Hussien" So are there more examples than that? 

And how to convince someone that actually its allowed for a sayed to marry half a sayed " my mom is only sayed"? I need very convincing answers to that topic.

:salam:

Why

millions

of

sayeds

from

Pakistan/Iran/India 

then ?

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19 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

When there is Surah like Surah-i-Kausar, "Why do you say like that"....If God wishes to let the descendants of Prophet PBUHHP become innumerable, no one can prevent it. They were chosen by God for Imams and that is why there did not have any say for determining the pairs of children of Imams, look at Imam Musa al-Kadhim a.s that He a.s had 18 daughters but they were not married. Why that happened, because there was no equal for them. 

Yes, if there be an equal for a syed among a non-syed family and instead of getting conflicts with syeds for what they are and what she is not, marrying is alright, if she knows at least to respect their descent and linkage to Prophet. But here happens that every non-Syed stands to show that syeds are even lower than them, why are you jealous of what God has given them and you do not have ? This is the only difference between, the "Chosen ladies who were mothers of Imams", because they knew respect of house of Ahlebait a.s. 

I only have one thing to non-syeds brother and sister, listen. If there is a syed and he becomes a bad name to Prophet PBUHHP, Prophet PBUHHP would cut off his relation with him and that is what Imam Ali a.s says: "There will be 20 Dajals (deceivers) from my family and I do not have any relation with them". Like Agha Khan family who were Prophet PBUHHP, and now they do not show that anything among them resembles with Prophet and they look more Western than Muslims. 

Same is the case with non-Syeds, Instead of making yourself critics of Syeds, you should focus on your own well-being, And like Salman al Farsi, who loved so much that Prophet PBUHHP called him that "Salman is from us Ahlebait a.s", you could also become part of Prophet's huge family just on account of your good behavior and Eman and like "Those pious ladies who were wives and mothers of our Imams, they proved themselves syeds and part of family of Prophet just by their obedience to family of Prophet PBUHHP". I am a syed myself, if I get married to a non-syed girl whom I like, I am not sure whether she will keep up with me or just become strongest critic, So, it is better, I do not think about that, because every non-syed girl's opinion would be no different from you and all those who are unaware of our commitment to Syeda Zahra a.s.  I would rather be slave of Syeda Zahra a.s than become slave of a non-syed girl who says me and my children that cut your relations with syeds and bury this custom. 

I dont think i hold the grudge against any sayeds or think that they are lower than non sayeds. We are all equal in the eyes of God. Actually being a sayed is a responsibility more than it is an honour " and actually it is an honour too". All i'm saying if there are religious and pious shias from the non sayeds, dont cut them off if they do respect the descendants of the prophet and the respect the responsibility of a sayed because they would feel that they are way lower than sayeds and it would break their hearts. As you can see around lots of good people were refused for just being non sayed girls.

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8 hours ago, Haydar Husayn said:

It's those who claim that Sayyids are only allowed to marry Sayyids who need to bring their proof, and the idea that Sayyid men can only marry Sayyid women is even more absurd than the usual claim involving Sayyid women. The Imams marrying Sayyid women seems to have been the exception rather than the rule. Most of the mothers of the Imams were not Sayyid.

As for other examples, I don't think any of the mothers of any of the Imams after al-Baqir Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã were Sayyid. The most famous examples would be the mother of Imam al-Kadhim and the mother of Imam al-Mahdi, who were both slaves.

Hayder nys one i agree with you because whole humanity  based on equality ...

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11 hours ago, Fatimahlover said:

I dont think i hold the grudge against any sayeds or think that they are lower than non sayeds. We are all equal in the eyes of God. Actually being a sayed is a responsibility more than it is an honour " and actually it is an honour too". All i'm saying if there are religious and pious shias from the non sayeds, dont cut them off if they do respect the descendants of the prophet and the respect the responsibility of a sayed because they would feel that they are way lower than sayeds and it would break their hearts. As you can see around lots of good people were refused for just being non sayed girls.

I am not implying towards you, I am implying towards those who at every place come up with this issue always. If non-syed girls could guarantee to syed boys that they would not make their lives terrible every time by opening same issue again and again after marriage, there seems no issue, but the thing is that they cannot guarantee, so why should we jump in a blind whole ? Those syeds who keep eyes in the future, they care for those non-syeds more than they care for themselves, we do not have to think by heart always, but also have to keep our heart in future as well. 

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