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Mansur Bakhtiari

Anyone else want to learn Mantiq al Muzaffar?

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السلام عليكم

I was wondering if anyone else wanted to learn about Mantiq. It's one of the first subjects studied in the hawza, with the Kitab al Mantiq of Ayatollah Muhammad Reza Muzaffar being the primary book of study.

I am going to Inshallah post the PDF oon here in english and arabic, along with lectures in all languages on this. If anybody else wants to learn with me, follow this thread so we can debate aspects of the book and Inshallah learn something.

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26 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I suggest one topic per day should be discussed what do you thin ? 

We should start this weekend because I'll have more time. We should pick a time then both go on the chatroom.

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:salam:

After having spent 3 terms (1 and half school years) studying this text, I can tell you that most of you will have no tolerance to study it the way it is studied in the Hawzah. General Hawzah classes are very book-focused, rather than topic-focused and most of us who have studied in Western educational systems have no experience studying this way. In fact it is a huge turn off from studying and learning anything.

You want to learn logic, not a book on logic or a certain scholar's views on logic - remember that. If you really want an introduction, then it is better to go with an even easier work like A Summary of Logic by Sayyid Sadiq Shirazi [https://www.al-islam.org/file/summary-logic-sayyid-sadiq-shirazi].

Coincidentally, I am spending this summer reviewing certain discussions from Mantiq (especially after you realize that you can't do any real philosophy without logic) and will also be doing mubahatha with some friends on Skype. If you guys want I can share some material on the forum as well and guide the discussion here.

---

Logic topics I have narrowed down for myself for the summer are:

- Tasawwur/Mafhum and its divisions
- 'Unwan & Mu'anwan
- Taraduf/Tabayun/Taqabul
- Different meanings and discussions on Dhaati & 'Aradhi 
- Qadhiya and its divisions 
- Ahkam of Qadhaya (Tanaqudh, 'Aks etc.)
- Qiyas (Iqtirani & Istihnayee)

Complicated Discussions:
- Kulli - what is it and do we even have such a thing
- Predication and its Divisions
- Burhan Inn & Limm - and their divisions

These topics in logic have serious implications in philosophical discussions. Also since logic is based on a certain epistemology, you should make it clear what epistemological premises are being taken for granted before you do logic.

Wasalam

Edited by Ibn al-Hussain

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^So you'd recommend reading a more introductory work, right? Fair enough, I will read the introductory work for a while Inshallah, then move on to Mantiq al Muzaffar. 

Though I have read a bit from the first couple chapters, and I think that might be beneficial because it's also very intoductory, no?

Wasalam

Edited by Mansur Bakhtiari

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2 hours ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

We should start this weekend because I'll have more time. We should pick a time then both go on the chatroom.

Mansur, gmail document would be good, if you could come there, because I can store some points there. 

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3 minutes ago, Mansur Bakhtiari said:

Though I have read a bit from the first couple chapters, and I think that might be beneficial because it's also very intoductory, no?

Well for starters, the English translation of Mantiq al-Muzaffar isn't even half the book (the Shaykh who was translating it passed away before he could complete it). So it is only very partially translated. Furthermore, I think before doing Muzaffar it is good to get an overall structure of the discussions in Mantiq (and even in hawzah many schools will do much smaller introductory books before doing Muzaffar). This is why I was suggesting Sayyid Sadiq Shirazi's work (there isn't much else online in English unfortunately), because it will give you a general map of what and where the discussions in logic take place.

Wasalam

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Salam alaykum

The link posted doesn't work, also Mantiq al mudhaffar is not fully translated apart from the first chapter or so.

i am up for mubahitha in English and Arabic only though unfortunately.  

Topics that I would like to cover:

immediate inferences

syllogisms and their forms 

 

 

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My arabic isn't that bad. It just takes me a while to read words. I think I'll start on the Sadiq Shirazi book. I've actually been printing off pages from Mantiq al Muzaffar from my school library, and already have 1 1/2 chapters.

@Sindbad05  @UndercoverBrother how is you guys's Arabic?

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2 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

I got english translation as well. of the book you gave me link. 

True, but I was thinking about starting on the book by Ayatollah Sadiq Shirazi, which is only in english.

@Ibn al-Hussain or you could give us a few important points from Summary of Logic if you have the time :D

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Just now, Sindbad05 said:

You can also discuss from Ayotullah Sadiq Sheerzai's book, if you feel comfortable, because translation is tough thing and I don't want to trouble you guys. 

We'll do a bit of both books so you're not left out :)

We can do the first chapters of Muzaffar then we'll do Shirazi

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4 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

Ok, I will get time off on Saturday and we could discuss on sunday ? alright ?  

Ok, what's the time difference between Pakistan and Canada? 10 Hours, right?

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9 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

It's 10:44 PM in Pakistan and you are 1:44 PM right ? so, it is 9 hours difference. 

Right. So Pakistan 9:00 Saturday is 6:00 Toronto.

When are you busy? 6:00 is the best time for me.

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54 minutes ago, Sindbad05 said:

9:00 is good time, I will come. Where shall I come ? 

I will come here first and give you my email for word document ok ?

Ok, come here then we'll go on the chat. 

Though how do I make it into a word document, I only have it on PDF

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